How Apple Pay beat the odds because of great design

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    Here in Australia, Apple Pay works everywhere - even vending machines because contactless PayPass cards are ubiquitous. Also ubiquitous is that the limit per transaction using Apple Pay is around $1,000 thanks to the biometric authentication with TouchID, FaceID and Apple Watch. In fact, i never carry my wallet anymore as I pay for everything with my Apple Watch something which now hardly ever elicits comment from retailers.
    Solilolliver
  • Reply 22 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,975member
    Rocwurst said:
    Here in Australia, Apple Pay works everywhere - even vending machines because contactless PayPass cards are ubiquitous. Also ubiquitous is that the limit per transaction using Apple Pay is around $1,000 thanks to the biometric authentication with TouchID, FaceID and Apple Watch. In fact, i never carry my wallet anymore as I pay for everything with my Apple Watch something which now hardly ever elicits comment from retailers.
    Vending machines in the US that accept Apple Pay are common enough that I'm not surprised when I see them. It seems that if the machine takes a CC for payment it also likely takes Apple Pay.
  • Reply 23 of 49
    I have the suspicion that if it weren't for Apple, almost no businesses in the US would have contactless terminals at all. Remember, we tried contactless cards before and they were ultimately a market failure, so there would be little reason for merchants to spend the extra money (no matter how little in practice).

    Of course, now that Apple made tapping kind of a thing, some banks are supposedly reconsidering contactless cards. We'll see if that ever pans out.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 24 of 49

    When I used Apple Pay at Costco a couple weeks ago I was able to use my Apple Watch at the terminal while the items were being scanned. Then I loaded my cart as things were being scanned and when the cashier finished he handed me my receipt and I was able to walk away right then. I didn’t need to go back, pull out my card, wait for the chip to be read, sign, get my receipt and then go. It’s great and I wish I could use Apple Pay everywhere. 
    On the other hand, last time I was at Costco, I handed the cashier my combined membership card/VISA card at the beginning of the transaction, as is required.  After he rang up the last item, he handed me my (NFC equipped) card.  I tapped it on the terminal, and it registered immediately.  I still had to wait as my items were bagged.  No time was lost by using the card, and I didn't have to pull out my phone, since my card was already out.  There are lots of places that Apple Pay is more convenient, but Costco is not one of them, at least not if you have the Costco VISA card.
    llama
  • Reply 25 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,975member
    tmiw said:
    I have the suspicion that if it weren't for Apple, almost no businesses in the US would have contactless terminals at all. Remember, we tried contactless cards before and they were ultimately a market failure, so there would be little reason for merchants to spend the extra money (no matter how little in practice).

    Of course, now that Apple made tapping kind of a thing, some banks are supposedly reconsidering contactless cards. We'll see if that ever pans out.
    I'm pretty sure they'd exist because they existed before Apple Pay launched and most terminals with card readers that were added when that went live seem to also include NFC-readers. What might still be happening is that there wouldn't be the major adoption since it's Apple Pay that is helping to make their copycat platforms successful, which includes the using the *Pay format (Google Pay nee Android Pay, Samsung Pay, WeChat Pay, LG Pay, and Microsoft Pay come to mind). Actually, I'm glad that they're following Apple in their naming convention and it's helping the adoption for other platforms because this helps everyone keep scammers at bay and helps make the dispersement of more terminals that accept NFC-based payments more likely to reach that threshold faster where I can go from "Cool! You accept Apple Pay" to "What do mean you don't accept Apple Pay?"
    pscooter63
  • Reply 26 of 49
    Soli said:
    tmiw said:
    I have the suspicion that if it weren't for Apple, almost no businesses in the US would have contactless terminals at all. Remember, we tried contactless cards before and they were ultimately a market failure, so there would be little reason for merchants to spend the extra money (no matter how little in practice).

    Of course, now that Apple made tapping kind of a thing, some banks are supposedly reconsidering contactless cards. We'll see if that ever pans out.
    I'm pretty sure they'd exist because they existed before Apple Pay launched and most terminals with card readers that were added when that went live seem to also include NFC-readers. What might still be happening is that there wouldn't be the major adoption since it's Apple Pay that is helping to make their copycat platforms successful, which includes the using the *Pay format (Google Pay nee Android Pay, Samsung Pay, WeChat Pay, LG Pay, and Microsoft Pay come to mind). Actually, I'm glad that they're following Apple in their naming convention and it's helping the adoption for other platforms because this helps everyone keep scammers at bay and helps make the dispersement of more terminals that accept NFC-based payments more likely to reach that threshold faster where I can go from "Cool! You accept Apple Pay" to "What do mean you don't accept Apple Pay?"
    There were never really all that many, though. And I bet Verifone, being the largest terminal maker in the US, would happily oblige if retailers asked for a less expensive EMV-capable terminal option. (In fact, most CVS locations have external contactless readers because the early MX925s did not come with built-in contactless.)

    Then again, some of Verifone's offerings don't really seem like they're a good match for the US market, which makes me wonder how much they actually listen to merchants. For instance, pay at the table is frowned upon by restaurants and customers alike, yet they don't have anything remotely like Clover's "slot built into the cashier display" approach. Nor is there is a contactless-only reader that can be customer-facing while keeping the main terminal behind the counter (which ideally wouldn't be done, but is kinda unavoidable/understandable considering that the US is chip and signature). That is a discussion for a whole different thread though. 
  • Reply 27 of 49
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:

    avon b7 said:
    "At launch, though, this feature is only going to be available to people in the United States. 

    Doubtlessly it will spread to other markets but for now, America has a lead on payment technology -- and it's all because of Apple."

    Is this a reference to 'cash' transfers using a phone? 

    That can already be done with apps like Twyp or Bizum. And using Siri too.

    Is there a difference between what those apps are doing and what the feature will offer?
    Yes, security and safety, but you already know that.
    Mobile 'cash' payments have existed in Spain since 2016. Bizum is operated by 23 Spanish banks and the Bank of Spain is involved, but the article mentioned the 'feature' which I took to mean 'cash' payments, not the security or safety (which would be irrelevant bin this case as no cards are even in play).
    You asked what the difference was and @Soli replied “security and safety”. I’m not sure why that would be irrelevant due to no cards being in play. How does Bizum verify the identity of the user (Especially if it’s possible to send cash with Siri)?

    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:

    avon b7 said:
    "At launch, though, this feature is only going to be available to people in the United States. 

    Doubtlessly it will spread to other markets but for now, America has a lead on payment technology -- and it's all because of Apple."

    Is this a reference to 'cash' transfers using a phone? 

    That can already be done with apps like Twyp or Bizum. And using Siri too.

    Is there a difference between what those apps are doing and what the feature will offer?
    Yes, security and safety, but you already know that.
    In Apple Pay, Apple is the 'man in the middle' and as such geets a fee. Bizum doesn't have anyone in the middle. It's you and your bank (using standard communications technology).
    Yes, Apple gets a cut of Apple Pay transactions. But I don’t think they do for Apple Pay Cash transactions. If I send $10 to someone $10 comes out of my account and they receive $10. There isn’t some extra charge being removed somewhere. 

    FWIW, if I receive $10 via Apple Pay Cash I can immediately turn around and spend that same $10 using my Apple Pay Cash card in Wallet using Apple Pay. I don’t have to transfer it somewhere else, I just choose that card to make the payment. Does Bizum do that?
    Cards, especially non-EMV cards, were open to abuse. With bizum, it is your account and you use your phone number and phone to identify yourself authenticating using passcode, TouchID, FaceID etc (just like Apple Pay), so how is Apple Pay offering more security and safety if the identification process is identical? No card information needs to be stored on the phone, everything is at the bank. All you need to do is prove it is you originating the transaction using standard mobile technology.
    gatorguymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 49
    I love Apple Pay, and use it whenever it is available, but I won't lie, the one store that gets mobile payments exactly right is Sam's Club. I just scan everything in their app as I pick it up walking around the store, hit the Pay Now button on my phone, and have a bar code for the clerk to scan on my way out to verify my purchase. Some of our friends tell us how much better Costco is than Sam's Club, but they both serve the same purpose and carry the same or similar stuff as far as I can tell, and walking right out the store without ever having to even look at a checkout line is so awesome, there is nothing at Costco that could make me switch.
  • Reply 29 of 49
    The article says “Chiefly because other countries were already moving to contactless payments, it's more common that Apple Pay just works there.”

    I’d like to know who these countries are. I travel to Paris a lot. ApplePay almost never works, despite the fact that there are NFC-enabled POS terminals everywhere. It doesn’t work in my travels (admittedly less frequent) to India, the Netherlands or the U.K.  

    ApplePay underachieves globally relative to potential. Period.
  • Reply 30 of 49
    TomE said:
    Of all things, today I forgot my wallet when I went to CVS for my Rx's.  But I had my phone.  If you live in South East Georgia, you might realize that Apple Pay has not reach 100% penetration.  We are not California or NY.  

    But, I had my iPhone and several Cards were already registered in my iPhone.  So, I was able to make 3 different purchases at CVS before I left the store.  Even the staff was surprised I was able to make my purchases.  CVS and others need to realize that I (we) are not going to register our credit cards & debit cards with their own App.  It is not going to happen.  In general, I hope their Payment Systems fail - they deserve to fail.  Any company that tries to make it where Apple Pay cannot be used and the only card payment system is theirs is a loser from the start. 

    So, I made 3 purchases CVS before I left the store without any thing except my phone.  Wake up and smell the roses - If I can pay for it with my iPhone via Wallet, I will do so, otherwise, I just may not buy anything from you at all - Especially if I don't have my wallet.

    3 for Apple Pay, 0 for the competition.

    CVS quietly started enabling ApplePay on its terminals a couple of months ago. According to my local one, even the store manager wasn’t told about it!
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 31 of 49
    rowjimmy said:
     I hate that most places I use Apple Pay still require a signature or a PIN. 
    In the United States as of April 2018 signatures are no longer required for most (all?) credit card transactions. Yes the terminals prompt for it, and when paper is printed, the staff request it, however that's an education topic not a requirement by Visa, MasterCard, AmEx, etc. Don't sign your name, let the person no it's no longer required per card companies, and scribble, as if you didn't scribble before you read this. :) There is a post about this on CreditCards.com, I don't have the link handy, but a quick search will bring up several articles.
    palomine
  • Reply 32 of 49
    The article says “Chiefly because other countries were already moving to contactless payments, it's more common that Apple Pay just works there.”

    I’d like to know who these countries are. I travel to Paris a lot. ApplePay almost never works, despite the fact that there are NFC-enabled POS terminals everywhere. It doesn’t work in my travels (admittedly less frequent) to India, the Netherlands or the U.K.  

    ApplePay underachieves globally relative to potential. Period.
    You're unlucky then. I've successfully used Apple Pay in many countries, including some in Eastern Europe where it hasn't even launched. 
  • Reply 33 of 49
    TomE said:
    Of all things, today I forgot my wallet when I went to CVS for my Rx's.  But I had my phone.  If you live in South East Georgia, you might realize that Apple Pay has not reach 100% penetration.  We are not California or NY.  

    But, I had my iPhone and several Cards were already registered in my iPhone.  So, I was able to make 3 different purchases at CVS before I left the store.  Even the staff was surprised I was able to make my purchases.  CVS and others need to realize that I (we) are not going to register our credit cards & debit cards with their own App.  It is not going to happen.  In general, I hope their Payment Systems fail - they deserve to fail.  Any company that tries to make it where Apple Pay cannot be used and the only card payment system is theirs is a loser from the start. 

    So, I made 3 purchases CVS before I left the store without any thing except my phone.  Wake up and smell the roses - If I can pay for it with my iPhone via Wallet, I will do so, otherwise, I just may not buy anything from you at all - Especially if I don't have my wallet.

    3 for Apple Pay, 0 for the competition.

    CVS quietly started enabling ApplePay on its terminals a couple of months ago. According to my local one, even the store manager wasn’t told about it!
    To me, CVS showed that they, along with Target don't give a damn about me, my security or convenience.   So, I simply go where my business is appreciated -- which isn't there.

    My credit card info was stolen in the Target hack -- which was incredibly bungled by Target.  Then when ApplePay came out they refused to accept it in their stores (along with CVS and others).  That proved to me that they simply did not value me or my security.  So, not needing them, they were gone from my life.  Still are.
    chabigpscooter63palomine
  • Reply 34 of 49
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    The article says “Chiefly because other countries were already moving to contactless payments, it's more common that Apple Pay just works there.”

    I’d like to know who these countries are. I travel to Paris a lot. ApplePay almost never works, despite the fact that there are NFC-enabled POS terminals everywhere. It doesn’t work in my travels (admittedly less frequent) to India, the Netherlands or the U.K.  

    ApplePay underachieves globally relative to potential. Period.
    ApplePay works pretty much everywhere in the UK.  I wonder if your issue might be the card, do you use American Express?  Most of Europe is a Mastercard/VISA lock in, so maybe that's your issue?
    darren mccoy
  • Reply 35 of 49
    Security:
    My story is, after my credit card was hacked for the 2nd time and ChipCards and ApplePay both had become available, I asked my credit card company if it was more secure to use their chip card or ApplePay.  They told me ApplePay.   So, I use that almost exclusively now and avoid shopping at any major chain that won't accept it.

    Speed and Convenience:
    At the start Apple seemed to emphasize ApplePay as mostly a convenience.  But, at the time, most credit card transactions were done by scanning the magnetic strip and it was about a 50-50 over which one was quicker.  Actually, the mag strip did seem to be a bit quicker and easier to me -- it certainly had fewer glitches.

    But the ratio changed when chip cards came out.  They were slow and still are.  The speed advantage tilted toward ApplePay.  But still, you had to fish the phone out of your pocket and hope the finger print reader worked and you didn't have to stumble around with multiple failed attempts followed by the "tap of shame" as you finally gave up and entered your PIN.

    But then came AppleWatch.  That solved the glitch/finger print reader problem.   It is truly just "tap and go".  Easy and really, really quick.

    I simply cannot imagine anything improving on the combination of ApplePay with AppleWatch for checkout at a retail store.   It's quick, easy and secure.
    Rocwurst
  • Reply 36 of 49
    My main problem is when I try to scan a QR code, such as for a coupon redemption, Apple Pay pops up on the screen.
  • Reply 37 of 49
    The article says “Chiefly because other countries were already moving to contactless payments, it's more common that Apple Pay just works there.”

    I’d like to know who these countries are. I travel to Paris a lot. ApplePay almost never works, despite the fact that there are NFC-enabled POS terminals everywhere. It doesn’t work in my travels (admittedly less frequent) to India, the Netherlands or the U.K.  

    ApplePay underachieves globally relative to potential. Period.
    In Australia it was accepted almost everywhere instantly because of our tap and go systems. But we couldn't get an ApplePay account unless we had an accepted US credit card so we had to wait (and even today our major banks won't partner). 

    I was surprised at Tim Cook demonstrating people using a magnetic stripe, and a signature... I thought he was deliberately showing how it was used 5 years back. We had been inserting cards and using a pin, and that was transitioning to the tap system. 

    But one thing that doesn't work overseas is debit cards. Apple Pay hooks into Amex or MasterCard or Visa or our debut card system EFTPOS - but if your ApplePay is using an EFTPOS card it won't work internationally because the international system doesn't recognised eftpos. 

    What card is in your Apple Pay?
    edited September 2018 anantksundaram
  • Reply 38 of 49
    Get thee to a copy editor … STAT! (Too many issues to lost here.)
  • Reply 39 of 49
    Our banks in Australia have setup and are launching a new payment platform with a PayID. Most Australians don't know about it yet, but you can associate your phone number to your account. 

    So if someone wants to pay me they open their bank app, enter my phone number, and it appears in my account. Some banks have an option to send cash from iMessage so I imagine it'll get added there, but for now it's a little slower. 

    Hopefully Apple Pay will integrate. It'd be good to send from a bank to ApplePay or vice versa  and for it to be quite seamless. 
  • Reply 40 of 49
    quote: I hate that most places I use Apple Pay still require a signature or a PIN. When I sign it is a horizontal line. No one has ever asked for a PIN, in my experience.
Sign In or Register to comment.