<strong>1.) not being hyprocrital at all. not once am I being arrogant here</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are the most arrogant ass I have ever seen on AI. You also have problems admiting it. I'm also an ass, would just like to get that point across .
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>2.) Apple's senior director of Hardware Product Marketing Greg Joswiak speaks on behalf of Apple. what he says represents what Apple says. That interview was for the sole purpose of informing everyone there would be no hardware announcements. it doesn't get more straightforward than that. I'm surprised that this is such an issue. it's making me think some of you didn't even read the interview</strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaks for Apple? Says who? Says you? This guy makes ads for Apple that say Macs are 72% faster than PCs...and you are going to take his word as you would Steves? And I did read that entire post all the way through, many times. This guy is in marketing, and he is in marketing for a 6.5 billion dollar company (yes that is the figure now). What he is in charge of is producing large quantities of BS and fluff. Much like yourself.
[quote]Originally posted by Tarbash:
<strong>That guy is Greg Joswiak, and he is very close to Steve Jobs. I would take him seriously if I were you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And you know this how? Are you also very close to Jobs/Joswiak? I think not.
[quote]You are the most arrogant ass I have ever seen on AI. You also have problems admiting it. I'm also an ass, would just like to get that point across .<hr></blockquote>
yawn.. you could at least keep this to the other thread. the discussion here was almost reaching intelligent yet you had to bring it down again. thank you
[quote]Speaks for Apple? Says who? Says you? <hr></blockquote>
that is his job. what you want Jobs to comment on every single thing Apple has to make a statement on? give me a break
[quote]This guy makes ads for Apple that say Macs are 72% faster than PCs...and you are going to take his word as you would Steves?<hr></blockquote>
if you think this guy is in charge of the ads then you really don't know what you're talking about.
[quote]What he is in charge of is producing large quantities of BS and fluff. Much like yourself.<hr></blockquote>
wow. you're pretty clever
[quote]And you know this how? Are you also very close to Jobs/Joswiak? I think not. <hr></blockquote>
Hey Applenut and Spart take it to another thread and duke it out.
Now on to my real posting...
IMO I think they should have the iBook as the mid-size notebook, a Subnotebook in Ti clothes along with the Top-of-the-Line Powerbook. It's prettymuch agreed on that resolutions need to be increased to stay competetive and keep people satisfied (at least the people on the boards.) For the top of the line, make the 5400rpm drives standard equipment.
This is the lineup I would personally like to see by MWNY.
I agree with stimuli that the key will be the smaller process. Then it may not be necessary to change the form factor of the PowerBook. I just hope it happens before MWNY 2003.
"Speaks for Apple? Says who? Says you? This guy makes ads for Apple that say Macs are 72% faster than PCs...and you are going to take his word as you would Steves? And I did read that entire post all the way through, many times. This guy is in marketing, and he is in marketing for a 6.5 billion dollar company (yes that is the figure now). What he is in charge of is producing large quantities of BS and fluff. Much like yourself."
Greg does a lot more than just speak for Apple. He is in constant contact with the engineering teams as well as marketing teams, and it's his job to communicate what people want to Apple's hardware engineering teams for incorporation into future products and bring them to market. Yes, once a product is released, he helps market it, but it is NOT his job to spew BS.
I think you and Applenut are arrogant asses, but that's just my opinion. Let it be guys. Let it be.
<strong>And you know this how? Are you also very close to Jobs/Joswiak? I think not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
jesus christ.
both of you need to stop ****ing with applenut, especially with posts so light on content and intelligence.
and to whoever mentioned that 10.4 inch screen... you can't be serious. we're talking about enlarging the Ti to deal with heat and you want to drop its dimensions? a 12.1 G4 iBook is dreaming, but a 10.4? It seems like applenut is suggesting something along the lines of what pc makers are doing... putting standard P4's in 'notebook' cases. They're heavy and light on juice but they are 'mobile'... can't say i agree... i see apple just toughing this drought out.
i don't know when this was released in japan, but my "pc" friend emailed me that sony has new vaio laptop. it has 16.1" screen, 512mb of ddr ram, 1.7ghz mobile pentium 4, etc.
o.k. so it still has too many buttons for my taste, but shouldn't that shake up apple to come up with something more competitive?
i just finished reading arguments above. and thought about a genius quote from a movie called "sugar and spice." "we are not acting like cheerleaders, we are acting like bunch of sorority girls..."
"cheerleaders kick ass!"
sorry.. side tracked... i must sleep... sleep....
oh, and apparently new vaio has "ati radeon 7500 with 32mb of super fast ddr memory." whatever that means... since lovely mr. jobs loved so much to compete with sony with powerbook g4, i am sure he will come up with something to compensate.... i love and have utter trust in him.
please.. please... don't bash me... remember.... "we are not acting like cheerleaders, we are acting like bunch of sorority girls..." GO APPLE!!!
<strong>2.) Apple's senior director of Hardware Product Marketing Greg Joswiak speaks on behalf of Apple. what he says represents what Apple says.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yup. It's so silly to say, "Greg Joswiak said that, not Apple." Apple said it through Greg Joswiak. However...
[quote]
<strong>That interview was for the sole purpose of informing everyone there would be no hardware announcements.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the sole purpose was to inform everyone that there would be no update to the PowerMacs.
Stick with me here for just a sec. Apple had finally bumped the PowerMacs after we all had expected brand new PMs at MWSF. At the time he said this, there were a lot of people (potential PM-buying customers) who believed this PowerMac bump was a stop-gap until the brand new PowerMacs (new enclosures, mobos, etc.) would be announced at MWT. As if Apple pretty much had them ready to go, but, for some reason, their release got slipped a few months (didn't want to over-shadow the new iMac release, for example). This meant a lot of people were going to ignore the bumps and wait a few months for the new PMs. Joswiak comes out and says "no new hardware". No more waiting until MWT for the new PMs. Mission accomplished.
Now put yourself in his (Apple's) shoes. You have to say something that will make people believe that current PMs are the good ones and there's no reason to wait to buy. At first blush you would think, "Well, let's just say we aren't going to update the PowerMac quadrant until MWNY." But, of course, that's giving away too much. You can't say when (exactly) the new PMs are coming. Also, you can't limit yourself to just the PowerMac quadrant; that implies updating of the other quadrants. So, to make it plain and simple, you say, "We're good. All of our products are great. We don't need to update anything for a while. No new hardware."
If you think about what he said, it makes perfect sense. Honestly, no matter what is going to happen at MWT, could he say anything less than, "All of our products are perfect just the way they are. We don't need to update them for a long time."
Wasn't the bottom line here that Apple went on record very recently saying that they had no intentions of releasing new hardware at Macworld Tokyo?
Someone brought up the scenario of maybe new circumstances permitting Apple to change that statement right before the show.. if I read the post properly. However, since we're so close to Macworld Tokyo, and the statement was made so close to Macworld Tokyo, I find it troubling to believe Apple would change their plans that quickly. I think this is one of those things where you can plan ahead many months and see it coming.
Anyhow, Apple has done this before, and they didn't lie. Last time Apple said no new hardware, there was no new hardware. I don't see what all the fuss is about...
Yeah, well I just can't take a post seriously that comes from a guy in Beulah. Nothing personal, I just never liked the French. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Who really cares about the G4? The bottom line is that unless apple brings out a G5 based PC thumping line most people will see any G4 based machine as a stop gap until the G5 arrives. The G4 and current motherboard architechture offers nothing but low performance compared to PC machines. When will we get back to the Toasted bunny days?
<strong>yawn.. you could at least keep this to the other thread. the discussion here was almost reaching intelligent yet you had to bring it down again. thank you</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the conversation became less one sided, and you don't like it so you have to come up with crappy comebacks. Oh well.
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>that is his job. what you want Jobs to comment on every single thing Apple has to make a statement on? give me a break
if you think this guy is in charge of the ads then you really don't know what you're talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not everything, but for something this big that happens so little of the time, something from Jobs would be a little bit better...he would probably be less vague as well and we wouldn't be stuck in this conversation. That statement of mine was little halfhearted, and isn't my main point, which is the crappiness of the English language to put it bluntly <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>so blind, so sad</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jobs has his people that he likes and the people that he tends to distance himself from just like everyone else. My point is you don't really know which this guy is and probably wont until Jobs publishes his memoirs. The only thing this guy speaking proves is that he's good at it, and Jobs or whoever made the decision to let MacCentral in knows this. How close they are is another story entirely.
And BTW, hella is just a Californian thing. I don't live in California but I talk to several people who do and they use this word all the time...it's just part of the local dialect. Slang conversion of the noun hell into an adjective, "hella." Might want to replace it with helishly.
[EDIT: Fixed clarity in Californian dialect paragraph.]
i mentioned a 10.4" screen for a SUB-NOTEBOOK. not the powerbook. the sub-notebook would be an addition to the notebook lineup if the powerbook got bigger.
though applenut cleared up the statement when he said that a larger powerbook would be in addition to the current powerbook lineup.
so you could either have applenuts' lineup or mine. i'd personally like to see a sub-notebook either way.
First point, not only should we take Greg at his word as it IS Apple's word, but you have to recall there are legal implications to a business "lying." We're all aware that Apple is being sued for saying older PowerPCs would fully support OS Xs capabilities. We would simply be looking at another class action suit by all those people who bought PowerMacs after this announcement because they didn't expect any new hardware (G5).
Second, does anyone still believe in UMA? We haven't heard mention of it for a year and a half. I realize it's primarily about components, but do you think the iMac's mobo has all that much in common with the PowerMac? No, the cube threw UMA out the window.
Finally, although I do believe the Apple no new hardware statement is 100% true, I don't think that rules out revs.
So, woo-hoo, Tokyo, minor rev to PB here we come! (Maybe, probably not).
[QB]First point, not only should we take Greg at his word as it IS Apple's word, but you have to recall there are legal implications to a business "lying." We're all aware that Apple is being sued for saying older PowerPCs would fully support OS Xs capabilities. We would simply be looking at another class action suit by all those people who bought PowerMacs after this announcement because they didn't expect any new hardware (G5).
[/B]<hr></blockquote>
No, only press releases are gospel (and always have disclaimers for this reason). The G3 action is bloody silly, and will be thrown out as soon as the defence boots up a G3 with Mac OS X.
This was a magazine article. Greg said no new CPUs, the journo said no new hardware. The whole thing was PR to sell hardware now rather than waiting for a G5 in n months.
Apple does not market on CPU models, so any G3 or G4 is still a current CPU as far as marketing is concerned.
A speed bump in the portables might be a good stop gap until new 'Books come out. Anything to reboost sales is possible really.
Second, does anyone still believe in UMA? We haven't heard mention of it for a year and a half. I realize it's primarily about components, but do you think the iMac's mobo has all that much in common with the PowerMac? No, the cube threw UMA out the window.
UMA is very real. It has existed since the first iBook. It's not really a set feature set. it's more like the sahring of components to the best of Apple's abilities. The Cube was also based on UMA. In fact it was pretty much a powermac g4 board broken into pieces.
If you look at the developer docs you'll see that the latest revs of all the machines include an updated architecture that all share many of the same things. Most notably the Pangea chip.
I just think people are wrong when they say Apple is planning UMA2 or whatever like that. UMA seems to just be sharing components across lines. not really a set in stone revision based thing
Comments
<strong>1.) not being hyprocrital at all. not once am I being arrogant here</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are the most arrogant ass I have ever seen on AI. You also have problems admiting it. I'm also an ass, would just like to get that point across
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>2.) Apple's senior director of Hardware Product Marketing Greg Joswiak speaks on behalf of Apple. what he says represents what Apple says. That interview was for the sole purpose of informing everyone there would be no hardware announcements. it doesn't get more straightforward than that. I'm surprised that this is such an issue. it's making me think some of you didn't even read the interview</strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaks for Apple? Says who? Says you? This guy makes ads for Apple that say Macs are 72% faster than PCs...and you are going to take his word as you would Steves? And I did read that entire post all the way through, many times. This guy is in marketing, and he is in marketing for a 6.5 billion dollar company (yes that is the figure now). What he is in charge of is producing large quantities of BS and fluff. Much like yourself.
[quote]Originally posted by Tarbash:
<strong>That guy is Greg Joswiak, and he is very close to Steve Jobs. I would take him seriously if I were you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And you know this how? Are you also very close to Jobs/Joswiak? I think not.
<strong>I'd personally like to see UMA2 debut. It's hella overdue.
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: stimuli ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just can't take a post seriously that uses the word "hella."
yawn.. you could at least keep this to the other thread. the discussion here was almost reaching intelligent yet you had to bring it down again. thank you
[quote]Speaks for Apple? Says who? Says you? <hr></blockquote>
that is his job. what you want Jobs to comment on every single thing Apple has to make a statement on? give me a break
[quote]This guy makes ads for Apple that say Macs are 72% faster than PCs...and you are going to take his word as you would Steves?<hr></blockquote>
if you think this guy is in charge of the ads then you really don't know what you're talking about.
[quote]What he is in charge of is producing large quantities of BS and fluff. Much like yourself.<hr></blockquote>
wow. you're pretty clever
[quote]And you know this how? Are you also very close to Jobs/Joswiak? I think not. <hr></blockquote>
so blind, so sad
Now on to my real posting...
IMO I think they should have the iBook as the mid-size notebook, a Subnotebook in Ti clothes along with the Top-of-the-Line Powerbook. It's prettymuch agreed on that resolutions need to be increased to stay competetive and keep people satisfied (at least the people on the boards.) For the top of the line, make the 5400rpm drives standard equipment.
This is the lineup I would personally like to see by MWNY.
iBook - G4 @600MHz, 100bus, 1-RAM Slot, 4200rpm drives, Combo or CD-RW, 13.3" Display, 5.5Lbs (Starting @ $1,395)
Powerbook (Sub) - G4 @667-733, 133+Bus, 2-DDR RAM Slots, 4200rpm drives, full application support 3rd party external optical drives, 10-11" Display, Sub-4Lbs (Starting @ $1,895)
Powerbook - G4 @800+MHz, 133+Bus, 2-DDR RAM Slots, 5400rpm drives, Combo (when available Superdrive), GeForce4 Go with 64MB or fastest available graphics subsystem, 15.2" Widescreen, Sub 6-Lbs (Starting @ $2,195-$3,795 maxed out)
Now make Airport standard across the board with a better antennae system, higher resolution on all systems, and make DVI standard on the Powerbooks.
Apple my money is waving in the air, how bad do you want it?
Greg does a lot more than just speak for Apple. He is in constant contact with the engineering teams as well as marketing teams, and it's his job to communicate what people want to Apple's hardware engineering teams for incorporation into future products and bring them to market. Yes, once a product is released, he helps market it, but it is NOT his job to spew BS.
I think you and Applenut are arrogant asses, but that's just my opinion. Let it be guys. Let it be.
<strong>And you know this how? Are you also very close to Jobs/Joswiak? I think not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
jesus christ.
both of you need to stop ****ing with applenut, especially with posts so light on content and intelligence.
and to whoever mentioned that 10.4 inch screen... you can't be serious. we're talking about enlarging the Ti to deal with heat and you want to drop its dimensions? a 12.1 G4 iBook is dreaming, but a 10.4? It seems like applenut is suggesting something along the lines of what pc makers are doing... putting standard P4's in 'notebook' cases. They're heavy and light on juice but they are 'mobile'... can't say i agree... i see apple just toughing this drought out.
i don't know when this was released in japan, but my "pc" friend emailed me that sony has new vaio laptop. it has 16.1" screen, 512mb of ddr ram, 1.7ghz mobile pentium 4, etc.
o.k. so it still has too many buttons for my taste, but shouldn't that shake up apple to come up with something more competitive?
<a href="http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PCOM/PCG-GRX90/feat3.html"; target="_blank">http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PCOM/PCG-GRX90/feat3.html</a>;
i just finished reading arguments above. and thought about a genius quote from a movie called "sugar and spice." "we are not acting like cheerleaders, we are acting like bunch of sorority girls..."
"cheerleaders kick ass!"
sorry.. side tracked... i must sleep... sleep....
oh, and apparently new vaio has "ati radeon 7500 with 32mb of super fast ddr memory." whatever that means... since lovely mr. jobs loved so much to compete with sony with powerbook g4, i am sure he will come up with something to compensate.... i love and have utter trust in him.
please.. please... don't bash me... remember.... "we are not acting like cheerleaders, we are acting like bunch of sorority girls..." GO APPLE!!!
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: ProtoDAda ]</p>
<strong>2.) Apple's senior director of Hardware Product Marketing Greg Joswiak speaks on behalf of Apple. what he says represents what Apple says.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yup. It's so silly to say, "Greg Joswiak said that, not Apple." Apple said it through Greg Joswiak. However...
[quote]
<strong>That interview was for the sole purpose of informing everyone there would be no hardware announcements.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the sole purpose was to inform everyone that there would be no update to the PowerMacs.
Stick with me here for just a sec. Apple had finally bumped the PowerMacs after we all had expected brand new PMs at MWSF. At the time he said this, there were a lot of people (potential PM-buying customers) who believed this PowerMac bump was a stop-gap until the brand new PowerMacs (new enclosures, mobos, etc.) would be announced at MWT. As if Apple pretty much had them ready to go, but, for some reason, their release got slipped a few months (didn't want to over-shadow the new iMac release, for example). This meant a lot of people were going to ignore the bumps and wait a few months for the new PMs. Joswiak comes out and says "no new hardware". No more waiting until MWT for the new PMs. Mission accomplished.
Now put yourself in his (Apple's) shoes. You have to say something that will make people believe that current PMs are the good ones and there's no reason to wait to buy. At first blush you would think, "Well, let's just say we aren't going to update the PowerMac quadrant until MWNY." But, of course, that's giving away too much. You can't say when (exactly) the new PMs are coming. Also, you can't limit yourself to just the PowerMac quadrant; that implies updating of the other quadrants. So, to make it plain and simple, you say, "We're good. All of our products are great. We don't need to update anything for a while. No new hardware."
If you think about what he said, it makes perfect sense. Honestly, no matter what is going to happen at MWT, could he say anything less than, "All of our products are perfect just the way they are. We don't need to update them for a long time."
Someone brought up the scenario of maybe new circumstances permitting Apple to change that statement right before the show.. if I read the post properly. However, since we're so close to Macworld Tokyo, and the statement was made so close to Macworld Tokyo, I find it troubling to believe Apple would change their plans that quickly. I think this is one of those things where you can plan ahead many months and see it coming.
Anyhow, Apple has done this before, and they didn't lie. Last time Apple said no new hardware, there was no new hardware. I don't see what all the fuss is about...
<strong>
I just can't take a post seriously that uses the word "hella."</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, well I just can't take a post seriously that comes from a guy in Beulah. Nothing personal, I just never liked the French.
<strong>
Yeah, well I just can't take a post seriously that comes from a guy in Beulah. Nothing personal, I just never liked the French.
..quel est le problème avec Beulah?
<strong>yawn.. you could at least keep this to the other thread. the discussion here was almost reaching intelligent yet you had to bring it down again. thank you</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the conversation became less one sided, and you don't like it so you have to come up with crappy comebacks. Oh well.
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>that is his job. what you want Jobs to comment on every single thing Apple has to make a statement on? give me a break
if you think this guy is in charge of the ads then you really don't know what you're talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not everything, but for something this big that happens so little of the time, something from Jobs would be a little bit better...he would probably be less vague as well and we wouldn't be stuck in this conversation. That statement of mine was little halfhearted, and isn't my main point, which is the crappiness of the English language to put it bluntly <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>you're pretty clever</strong><hr></blockquote>
Indeed
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>so blind, so sad</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jobs has his people that he likes and the people that he tends to distance himself from just like everyone else. My point is you don't really know which this guy is and probably wont until Jobs publishes his memoirs. The only thing this guy speaking proves is that he's good at it, and Jobs or whoever made the decision to let MacCentral in knows this. How close they are is another story entirely.
And BTW, hella is just a Californian thing. I don't live in California but I talk to several people who do and they use this word all the time...it's just part of the local dialect. Slang conversion of the noun hell into an adjective, "hella." Might want to replace it with helishly.
[EDIT: Fixed clarity in Californian dialect paragraph.]
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Spart ]</p>
i mentioned a 10.4" screen for a SUB-NOTEBOOK. not the powerbook. the sub-notebook would be an addition to the notebook lineup if the powerbook got bigger.
though applenut cleared up the statement when he said that a larger powerbook would be in addition to the current powerbook lineup.
so you could either have applenuts' lineup or mine. i'd personally like to see a sub-notebook either way.
Second, does anyone still believe in UMA? We haven't heard mention of it for a year and a half. I realize it's primarily about components, but do you think the iMac's mobo has all that much in common with the PowerMac? No, the cube threw UMA out the window.
Finally, although I do believe the Apple no new hardware statement is 100% true, I don't think that rules out revs.
So, woo-hoo, Tokyo, minor rev to PB here we come! (Maybe, probably not).
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: danaus plexippus ]</p>
[QB]First point, not only should we take Greg at his word as it IS Apple's word, but you have to recall there are legal implications to a business "lying." We're all aware that Apple is being sued for saying older PowerPCs would fully support OS Xs capabilities. We would simply be looking at another class action suit by all those people who bought PowerMacs after this announcement because they didn't expect any new hardware (G5).
[/B]<hr></blockquote>
No, only press releases are gospel (and always have disclaimers for this reason). The G3 action is bloody silly, and will be thrown out as soon as the defence boots up a G3 with Mac OS X.
This was a magazine article. Greg said no new CPUs, the journo said no new hardware. The whole thing was PR to sell hardware now rather than waiting for a G5 in n months.
Apple does not market on CPU models, so any G3 or G4 is still a current CPU as far as marketing is concerned.
A speed bump in the portables might be a good stop gap until new 'Books come out. Anything to reboost sales is possible really.
But nothing unseen.
<strong>
Second, does anyone still believe in UMA? We haven't heard mention of it for a year and a half. I realize it's primarily about components, but do you think the iMac's mobo has all that much in common with the PowerMac? No, the cube threw UMA out the window.
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: danaus plexippus ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
UMA is very real. It has existed since the first iBook. It's not really a set feature set. it's more like the sahring of components to the best of Apple's abilities. The Cube was also based on UMA. In fact it was pretty much a powermac g4 board broken into pieces.
If you look at the developer docs you'll see that the latest revs of all the machines include an updated architecture that all share many of the same things. Most notably the Pangea chip.
I just think people are wrong when they say Apple is planning UMA2 or whatever like that. UMA seems to just be sharing components across lines. not really a set in stone revision based thing