Apple will no longer report iPhone, Mac and iPad unit sales

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  • Reply 41 of 117
    NY1822 said:
    Maestri says it's smartphone, laptop, and tablet competitors do not offer unit sales figure in their earnings report either.

    they still are reporting revenue in the categories, more data than other companies do
    This was Tim Cook's response


  • Reply 42 of 117
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,668member
    asdasd said:
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    You hit it right on the noggin!

    Prime example is the stock being tanked after-hours... They made more money than anyone else, WITHIN their target guidance from last quarter, but because it didn't meat the asinine "predictions" of Wall Scum, they are punishing Apple. Take this out of the equation and just give the financials, maybe this will improve things for the better!
    The tanking is related to guidance. 
    It dropped an additional 1-2% after Luca announced no more unit sales data.
    Fair enough and I get that. 
  • Reply 42 of 117
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    cpsro said:
    Unit sales figures may not matter to Apple, but it matters to third parties whose livelihood depends on Apple unit sales... and that should matter to Apple.
    (For my business, maybe I just focus on Linux going forward.)
    No one here believes you run a business. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 44 of 117
    colinng said:
    Is there a possibility that Apple is just jacking up the price of everything? An iPhone “Plus” size phone is now $1320-$2000 Canadian. I understand they try to push the XS and XS Max as a “new category” and the XR as the direct successor of the 8/8 Plus, but really, $1300 is a LOT of money. $2000 is unprecedented; I get it, the $1550 one is the one they expect me to buy. That would be double anything I’ve paid for a previous iPhone. 

    Volumes drop, but profits remain because the ASP has gone higher. That’s how I’m seeing it - and I’m a big Apple fan. Bought the iPad Pro 2 12.9” on like opening day. The new stuff is great, thinner, more powerful, but man, so expensive. 

    I know there are articles saying that with inflation it’s the same cost. I don’t buy that. I distinctly recall the year when the PowerBook G3 Wallstreet went from $5500 to a $3799 Bronze Keyboard the next summer. And that I think really helped Mac users everywhere. The only thing better was the FireWire version that shipped the following year, and apparently the Pismo was extremely popular. 

    Isn’t tech supposed to come down in price? That’s how a US$100K 2 seater roadster becomes an $80K luxury sedan then a $35K model 3, and eventually a $20K model 4. 
    "Is there a possibility that Apple is just jacking up the price of everything?"

    What possibility? They've been doing that since the debut of the iPhone X
    radarthekat
  • Reply 45 of 117
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    colinng said:
    Is there a possibility that Apple is just jacking up the price of everything? An iPhone “Plus” size phone is now $1320-$2000 Canadian. I understand they try to push the XS and XS Max as a “new category” and the XR as the direct successor of the 8/8 Plus, but really, $1300 is a LOT of money. $2000 is unprecedented; I get it, the $1550 one is the one they expect me to buy. That would be double anything I’ve paid for a previous iPhone. 

    Volumes drop, but profits remain because the ASP has gone higher. That’s how I’m seeing it - and I’m a big Apple fan. Bought the iPad Pro 2 12.9” on like opening day. The new stuff is great, thinner, more powerful, but man, so expensive. 

    I know there are articles saying that with inflation it’s the same cost. I don’t buy that. I distinctly recall the year when the PowerBook G3 Wallstreet went from $5500 to a $3799 Bronze Keyboard the next summer. And that I think really helped Mac users everywhere. The only thing better was the FireWire version that shipped the following year, and apparently the Pismo was extremely popular. 

    Isn’t tech supposed to come down in price? That’s how a US$100K 2 seater roadster becomes an $80K luxury sedan then a $35K model 3, and eventually a $20K model 4. 
    Can’t say I’ve noticed this. 

    The cars I buy have gotten more expensive because I bought better cars. 
    andrewj5790RonnnieOpscooter63radarthekat
  • Reply 46 of 117
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,391member
    As Maestri noted, none of Apple's competitors release actual sales figures -- and are not punished for not doing so. So why should Apple?

    If you ask me, the biggest of Tim Cook's extremely low number of missteps was treating analysts better than other companies do. This is one area where Steve was on point.
    jony0andrewj5790radarthekatStrangeDayspalomine
  • Reply 47 of 117
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Devices that can be taken apart and recycled
    Services revenues on the rise. 
    Apple encouraging folk to buy the phone on an upgrade plan
    Pushing subscriptions for software. 
    And I reckon you won’t be able to buy an Apple Car outright

    The reason Apple is not reporting unit sales is because they’re getting ready for the near future, when the bulk of their revenue will be services. 
    andrewj5790radarthekat
  • Reply 48 of 117
    jccjcc Posts: 300member
    Haha, after a few years of people like me predicting Cook’s incompetence as a product “visionary”, it’s finally coming to fruition. Apple use to lead, and now they follow. They followed Samsung into the phablets and now they have no one else to copy. The real reason they no longer breakdown unit sales is because they’re trying to hide declining unit sales. They’re hoping that they can sell more and more expensive iPhones in order maintain their revenue growth. Good luck to that! There’s already signs that people aren’t willing to pay over $1k for a phone. That was the whole reason they went the phablets route as people reasoned that a bigger phone should mean higher price.
  • Reply 49 of 117
    I am totally fine with this decision. Revenue, profit and installed user base are most important. 

    The 19Q1 guidance is a bit concerning but still a really high number. 

    Apple keeps killing it and people keep saying they are doomed. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 50 of 117
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,379member
    I think it is because Apple has the balls to cannibalize its own product line and let the chips fall where they may.  Reporting lines just lets the anti-Apple pundits focus on anything negative even if the larger picture is overwhelmingly positive.
    andrewj5790RonnnieOradarthekatStrangeDays
  • Reply 51 of 117
    thrangthrang Posts: 892member
    I love this, and I thinks it's a bit of an FU to the analysts, most of whom are too myopic. The overall trajectory of the company is very healthy, and as other segments and services continue to grow this will only continue. But too many prognosticators stare at the iPhone numbers like moths attracted to a porch light. They never see the entire house.

    As people move beyond the annual iPhone upgrade cycle, Apple has a tremendous HW/Services ecosystem to continue to attract and grow revenue. Where it used to be annual iPhone upgrades would make or break the company, now, a customer may skip an iPhone upgrade, but perhaps purchase an iPad, or Watch and AirPods, or any number of things in cascading sell cycles.

    The analysts asked for this because few (not all - some were wiser) simply cared about iPhone sales and ASP. The ability for most of the street to assess Apple's rapid ability to transform their business is probably pretty frustrating to Apple, and is ultimately one of the greater manipulators of the stock price.

    I honestly feel a good chunk of the after-hours drop is because of short-term negativity about this, as the numbers and forecast do not align with this severe of a drop alone, especially as it was off its high already at close of market.
    edited November 2018 radarthekat
  • Reply 52 of 117
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    And that is precisely why they are mad. This throws Hedge Funds on their rear trying to short the stock. They are less likely to play their games with AAPL, hence the big pull out after hours.
    palomine
  • Reply 53 of 117
    …the change means analysts and market watchers will be unable to derive device ASPs and other calculations. 
    What is an "ASP"? And why do you repeatedly publish articles containing uncommon acronyms or terms without defining them at least once?

    Yes, it can be looked up, but that's not the point. The point is responsible journalism, which you repeatedly fail to practice.

    Within reason, readers shouldn't have to consult other sources just to define terms used in your articles. Please do better.
  • Reply 54 of 117
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,668member
    …the change means analysts and market watchers will be unable to derive device ASPs and other calculations. 
    What is an "ASP"? And why do you repeatedly publish articles containing uncommon acronyms or terms without defining them at least once?

    Yes, it can be looked up, but that's not the point. The point is responsible journalism, which you repeatedly fail to practice.

    Within reason, readers shouldn't have to consult other sources just to define terms used in your articles. Please do better.
    In a report about a financial call it’s a totally common and well understood term. 
    fastasleep
  • Reply 55 of 117
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,668member
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    And that is precisely why they are mad. This throws Hedge Funds on their rear trying to short the stock. They are less likely to play their games with AAPL, hence the big pull out after hours.
    No I think that they see this as hiding future unit stagnation. You might think that shouldn’t matter to the analysts if revenue increases but they think in terms of future growth. Stalling unit sales will mean that eventually everything will stall, installed base and eventually services. 

    One of the things I’ve always like about Apple is the clear and concise reports. Other companies you really can’t tell what’s going on. 
  • Reply 56 of 117
    jony0jony0 Posts: 345member
    Finally, at long last. Sauce for the goose.
    I've been clamouring this for many years, particularly after the first quarter they broke the record for profits of all time in business, along with record number of iPhone units, Mac units and iPad units but … uh oh … wait … only 27 M iPads when WS expected 27.5 M ? That's a miss of course because WS expectations can't possibly be wrong and the stock tumbles. It was frustrating to see such great record results get tarnished by arbitrary guesses. Fortunately I've become inured over the years because although it happened many times, the stock does rebound.

    Even so, just for the sake of short term stock fluctuations, Apple has to STOP giving unit sales at earnings call because they always get dinged by WS for it, in spite of better revenues and profits. The unit numbers are usually downgrade fodder when they're not met and rarely reason of the rare upgrade even if exceeded. Let WS ponder on revenues, profits and other dollar issues relevant to AAPL, just like all the other companies, after all, isn't money what WS is all about ?

    For those of us who would like to gloat, Apple could humour us by still releasing unit sales but later, disconnected from the earnings call, deferring shortly after IDC & Gartner report their continual downward guesstimates for our amusement so we can all get a laugh seeing them further demonstrate that they just don't get it either.

    Case in point, if the stock tanks because of this announcement it further demonstrates the point. WS is losing one of their favourite toys to play with and are putting up a fit. Besides, the stock has been tumbling for a few weeks now anyway like a lot of others and WS in general so it would be somewhat contentious to link the announcement with yet another drop.

    edited November 2018
  • Reply 57 of 117
    asdasd said:
    asdasd said:

    I also suspect it might be because they don't want to reveal that their higher price devices aren't selling as they are hoping they will.
    FTFA: “For the fourth quarter of 2018, iPhone ASP hit an all-time high of $793, up from $617.99 in 2017.”
    Yes but sales stagnated or fell. Below expectations anyway. 

    Whose expectations? Fabricated numbers by analysts?
    Best guesses based on guidance. You realise that all companies get this - there’s no giant conspiracy against Apple. 

    By not giving units Apple is in fact leaving the floor to analysts and market advisors like IDC (who always low ball Mac sales) to manipulate unit sales, which they are going to guess anyway. 

    Bull. Apples guidance was 20% higher. Why didn’t the analysts forecast 56 million iPhones, which would have been 20% more than last year?

    All companies get this? More bull. Give me an example of any Apple competitor where their stock regularly sinks after an earnings call, even if they just turned in a record quarter.

    Samsung just posted their results yesterday and announced a drop in earnings for mobile, their single biggest division. Their yearly revenue gains were a very modest 5.5%. Their stock barely moved.

    Apple posted a record quarter and revenue gains of 20% from last year (29% for the iPhone) and their stock tanks because......what? iPad and Mac sales were down slightly? So slight that the massive increase in iPhone revenues (and decent Services/Other revenues) propels Apple to a record quarter anyway? What kind of fucking idiot ignores the huge gains in revenue/profits and puts far too much importance on something like unit sales or iPad/Mac sales?
    fastasleepradarthekatmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 58 of 117
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    If other companies aren't doing it they shouldn't have to either. But I don't buy the argument that extra data is somehow confusing - more information is always good.

    Yes the phone market is saturated but its been the case for a while that nearly everyone has a phone. But there have still been a lot of sales because the phones have been getting faster every year so people upgrade. What changed this year I think is that phones reached the point where they have a CPU as fast as a laptop and a GPU as fast as a console, so maybe going forward the market is not only saturated but people do less upgrading.

    But I can see the Watch coming up and being a real star.
  • Reply 59 of 117
    NY1822NY1822 Posts: 621member
    where is the outcry for Google to report YouTube revenue?
  • Reply 60 of 117
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,227member
    colinng said:
    Is there a possibility that Apple is just jacking up the price of everything? An iPhone “Plus” size phone is now $1320-$2000 Canadian. 

    Isn’t tech supposed to come down in price? That’s how a US$100K 2 seater roadster becomes an $80K luxury sedan then a $35K model 3, and eventually a $20K model 4. 
    This is more a problem of currency for us Canadian.  I remember paying  $1300 for my MBP when the CAN $ was on par with the US $. The US$ is too high, its hurting sales outside of the US.
    I look at price now and it keeps me from upgrading. Its the same for my iPads and my iPhones. I got the X because my old phone broke, otherwise I would not have changed.  

    That being said, I think Apple is pushing it with prices.  At some point it's going to hurt sales. If you want to growth services you need to keep you're customers.
    edited November 2018
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