Apple will no longer report iPhone, Mac and iPad unit sales

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  • Reply 61 of 117
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,904member
    We are basically 'post iPhone' now (in company-wide terms) and after three years of flat growth, unit numbers possibly don't look too good going forward (in growth terms). 

    Apple has never had the kind of high-end premiun competition (at least on the current scale) as it has now and is (and has been) trying to open new revenue streams.

    Services is growing, (TV) content creation will probably go live next year and the car project will follow. Plus all the other areas.

    However, flat unit sales are not nice and any dip in handset sales would just make things worse from a stock perspective because iPhone sales have been the most important indicator for years. Giving a running commentary on unit sales (each earnings  call) and reporting things staying the same - or possibly getting worse is something to be avoided. 

    While iPhone X may have been the 'most popular' model this year, and in spite of all the joy with Q1 numbers, the reality is that sales are still more or less flat, again. Little has changed.

    We know people are being asked to pay more for the newer phones and at some point they won't want to (or won't be able to) and that point might be close. This year's refresh was not really that spectacular. To the point that many considered the Apple Watch to be the real star of the 2018 refresh.

    In a 'post iPhone' Apple world, it shouldn't be surprising to see a decision like this. Just look at the guidance for the next quarter. There will be another Q1 blow out but the revenue mix will be far more spread out, and as the year passes, iPhone unit sales might show signs of fatigue.

    By not giving unit sales, Apple gets some breathing space until the next refresh, which will need to be stronger than this year, but won't carry same importance as in previous years because other areas will have been strengthened by then and the content library will probably be rolling out.

    iPhone sales could take off of course, but I think Apple really doesn't expect that to happen and they are prefering to err on the side of caution.

    Apple obviously (and understandably) wants to play the decision down and say unit sales are less relevant. In a post iPhone Apple world it is true, but those numbers are still very much relevant nonetheless.
    edited November 2018 asdasdmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 62 of 117
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,397member
    What's the real reason for not giving us this information?
    Apple are probably sick of Wall Street and analysts claiming figures and then claiming doom when the actual numbers are released, no matter if they sold more or less. They twist the story to suit their bullshit narrative.
    xamax
  • Reply 63 of 117
    irnchriz said:
    Probably because share price fluctuates based on number of units sold regardless of profits.  By doing this the only metric they are judged on is profit.
    Bingo.  F wall street and F the analysts.  Enough of the manipulation and speculation and second guessing from self-important tollbags who don't f--k all about this business.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 64 of 117
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,670member
    asdasd said:
    asdasd said:

    I also suspect it might be because they don't want to reveal that their higher price devices aren't selling as they are hoping they will.
    FTFA: “For the fourth quarter of 2018, iPhone ASP hit an all-time high of $793, up from $617.99 in 2017.”
    Yes but sales stagnated or fell. Below expectations anyway. 

    Whose expectations? Fabricated numbers by analysts?
    Best guesses based on guidance. You realise that all companies get this - there’s no giant conspiracy against Apple. 

    By not giving units Apple is in fact leaving the floor to analysts and market advisors like IDC (who always low ball Mac sales) to manipulate unit sales, which they are going to guess anyway. 

    Bull. Apples guidance was 20% higher. Why didn’t the analysts forecast 56 million iPhones, which would have been 20% more than last year?

    All companies get this? More bull. Give me an example of any Apple competitor where their stock regularly sinks after an earnings call, even if they just turned in a record quarter.

    Samsung just posted their results yesterday and announced a drop in earnings for mobile, their single biggest division. Their yearly revenue gains were a very modest 5.5%. Their stock barely moved.

    Apple posted a record quarter and revenue gains of 20% from last year (29% for the iPhone) and their stock tanks because......what? iPad and Mac sales were down slightly? So slight that the massive increase in iPhone revenues (and decent Services/Other revenues) propels Apple to a record quarter anyway? What kind of fucking idiot ignores the huge gains in revenue/profits and puts far too much importance on something like unit sales or iPad/Mac sales?
    All companies have to deal with analysts who estimate earnings for a quarter and if those earnings are missed the stock (which probably appreciated on the interim) tends to fall. Amazon dropped 10% a few days ago. 

    And the stock price tends to be affected by future guidance not past performance. Past performance is already priced in, or should be. 

    Why the upset? If you think Apple is underpriced after each earnings call then that’s a good time to buy. 
    radarthekat
  • Reply 65 of 117
    Incidentally, just checked on the after-hours and it’s going to be a shocking stock price adjustment tomorrow for heavy AAPL holders. Mel is absolutely going to plotz. Keep holding longs, but “ouch”...
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 66 of 117
    Seems to make sense, actually. As someone mentioned above, those analysts use those numbers to spout nonsense anyway. Plus, it might remove the pressure to cut or destroy smaller, modestly profitable line items like say, oh, Macs, in ritual sacrifice to the iPhone unit sales.
  • Reply 67 of 117
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,227member
    Looking at revenue and EPS, I think its a good thing not to report unit sales anymore.  Beside giving hints at the competition to what works, the bottom and top lines are more important than unit sales.

    Revenu on sept 2017: 52.58.  Revenu on sept 2018: 62.9.  19,6% YoY growth.
    EPS on sept 2017: 2.07.  EPS on sept 2018:  2.91.  40% YoY growth.

    I think Buffet is right.  People focusing on Unit sales are not getting Apple.

    Sales are hurt by a strong US dollar which is high because the fed is rising interest rates.
    Companies like Apple with a complex international supply chain are hurt by trading tensions.

    If Apple prices drop a lot before Apple resume it's buybacks, load up.  If you own it, don't sell.
    edited November 2018 fastasleepradarthekatpalomine
  • Reply 68 of 117
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,227member
    Incidentally, just checked on the after-hours and it’s going to be a shocking stock price adjustment tomorrow for heavy AAPL holders. Mel is absolutely going to plotz. Keep holding longs, but “ouch”...
    Apple touch 208 this week on the market sell off. Not a big thing imo. In fact I hope it tanks for a short period of time so I can load, I have cash of the side.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 69 of 117
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,521member
    evilution said:
    What's the real reason for not giving us this information?
    Apple are probably sick of Wall Street and analysts claiming figures and then claiming doom when the actual numbers are released, no matter if they sold more or less. They twist the story to suit their bullshit narrative.
    My personal speculation is that they are hiding the numbers because they don't expect the numbers to go up in the future. As evidence of this I would point out that Apple stock dropped 4% within minutes of this information being released (according to Mike Wuerthele.) People who invest billions in Apple are probably smarter that you and I.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 70 of 117
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,269member
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    except now those analysts will be able to make whatever bogus predictions they want with no risk of ever being proved wrong. Of course it never stopped them in the past.

    If other companies are not posting numbers then I'm not surprised that Apple isn't, but I agree with others regarding the lack of transparency and strict focus on profits. I'm sure not a small part of the rationale is that smartphone numbers are starting to stagnate industry wide, so if they're going to go along with everyone else and stop posting numbers, better to do it before the numbers get any worse.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 71 of 117
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,691member
    asdasd said:

    I also suspect it might be because they don't want to reveal that their higher price devices aren't selling as they are hoping they will.
    FTFA: “For the fourth quarter of 2018, iPhone ASP hit an all-time high of $793, up from $617.99 in 2017.”
    Yes but sales stagnated or fell. Below expectations anyway. 
    Maybe you should read the comment I was replying to for context? They said, "they don't want to reveal that their higher price devices aren't selling as they are hoping", hence my reply with the huge jump in ASP. 
  • Reply 72 of 117
    mubailimubaili Posts: 442member
    asdasd said:
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    You hit it right on the noggin!

    Prime example is the stock being tanked after-hours... They made more money than anyone else, WITHIN their target guidance from last quarter, but because it didn't meat the asinine "predictions" of Wall Scum, they are punishing Apple. Take this out of the equation and just give the financials, maybe this will improve things for the better!
    The tanking is related to guidance. 
    It dropped an additional 1-2% after Luca announced no more unit sales data.
    Good. If it dropped back to pre-Q3 level then I can buy some more shares on the cheap. Warren Buffett will probably buy more too. And Apple itself can buy back more shares too. It is a win-win-win situation. Short term pain of course.
    xamaxradarthekat
  • Reply 73 of 117
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,586member
    What's the real reason for not giving us this information?
    I suspect it's because unit sales are dropping substantially, especially in the Mac lines, due to market maturity and because of the increase in prices across the board.    A lack of transparency is not going to be good for the stock.   Apple would probably argue that unit sales reporting takes attention away from Services, which has been growing substantially and if spun off, would make the Fortune 500 all by itself.   
  • Reply 74 of 117
    Oh boo hoo 😥 who gives a toss !! It’s their business anyways. Tell them nothing Apple! Let the jokers guess the figures.
    xamaxradarthekat
  • Reply 75 of 117
    xamaxxamax Posts: 135member
    Incidentally, just checked on the after-hours and it’s going to be a shocking stock price adjustment tomorrow for heavy AAPL holders. Mel is absolutely going to plotz. Keep holding longs, but “ouch”...

    Time to buy, ouch!
  • Reply 76 of 117
    Hide the decline!
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 77 of 117
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    One thing Apple could do to maintain growth is pivot a little bit from consumer to business. It feels like the consumer is all computed out for the time being, but with the current business friendly policies coming from the Republicans, businesses might be expanding.

    And in the A12, Apple has a fast, low power CPU with an integrated neural processor which could be a great product for the server room. They also have an ally in IBM. And most server rooms use Linux which can compile to the A12 as easily as anything else.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 78 of 117
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    Analyst at work:


    edited November 2018 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 79 of 117
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    chasm said:
    As Maestri noted, none of Apple's competitors release actual sales figures -- and are not punished for not doing so. So why should Apple?

    If you ask me, the biggest of Tim Cook's extremely low number of missteps was treating analysts better than other companies do. This is one area where Steve was on point.

    Not only that, the analysts loved it. They didn’t even have a safe word. 
  • Reply 80 of 117
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,395moderator
    Doesn't bother me. Unit sales is just another number those fucking useless analysts use to try and manipulate Apple stock.
    You hit it right on the noggin!

    Prime example is the stock being tanked after-hours... They made more money than anyone else, WITHIN their target guidance from last quarter, but because it didn't meat the asinine "predictions" of Wall Scum, they are punishing Apple. Take this out of the equation and just give the financials, maybe this will improve things for the better!
    It’s only partly punishing Apple, in the sense the stock price is, for some employees, part of their incentive-based compensation.  But it helps Apple to have the stock temporarily knocked down on meaningless metrics, as it allows the company to buy back shares cheaper until the stock recovers.  
    edited November 2018
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