Welp, people got what they wanted. What will the next complaint be? (Price, of course, right)
Of course!
I love what they did, but, for me, the $799 entry level machine is too rich for my blood to replace my headless Mac mini since I only connect to it a couple times a week via my MBP so it just doesn't warrant the price at the point. (Note: That is not a statement that the prices are too high, that Apple is raping us, or that Apple is greedy, only that it's not the right product for me at this time.)
PS: From the demo it kind of looks like the RAM might be socketed again. I have doubts that it is, but it did look like two RAM sticks overlapping each other on screen.
The $499 version that was available had only 4GB of RAM (soldered) and used spinning rust... Even at $499/599 today, that would be a real waste. Yes, the RAM is upgradeable on the new version (2 slots apparently) if you want to go that route, but your average user will not... The last Mac Mini was not worth $499 (IMHO) -- it would be insane to buy that.... the $799 is a better investment even at the higher price.
So, they went from a base-priced Mac Mini of $499 to a base-priced Mac Mini of $799 (and no one with any sense would buy one with 128GB of storage)? I realize they beefed them up considerably, but at that price-point, I just don't see it being a choice over an iMac or a portable.
It is not in 'competition' with an iMac or laptop per se (if it was that would mean an overly complicated lineup which Apple tends to shy away from)... it is a choice based on needs. I am very averse to an all-in-one desktop since in my experience one of the more common things to go is the monitor (back-lighting probably) -- I have had lots of dead ones over the year... second only to Seagate HD as the most failed component. I also don't use just one monitor, so having a built in one is also not necessary because I am going to use an external monitor anyways. The laptop is for those that need to bring the computer with them. I have one of those. I will be buying a new Mac Mini (likely the i7-8700 6-core one) with 10GB ethernet and 8GB of RAM (which I will upgrade myself to 32GB) -- probably end of this month.
BTW: External SATA is silly when you have Thunderbolt
Your external thunderbolt hard drive is SATA... It goes through the thunderbolt - to a SATA controller and then the hard drive is plugged into the controller
I know that SATA drives are sometimes used in external chassis. I was talking about using eSATA as a port on the Mac Mini.
On another subject... the CPU in the high end Mac Mini is a i7-8700 3.2Ghz 65Watt not the i7-8700K 3.7Ghz 95Watt. Can anybody verify that?
Specs match the i7-8700 or i7-8700B... not the K.
All thunderbolt does is extend the PCIe bus (and increase the cost). Whether you have an eSATA port (which means you have a SATA controller on your motherboard or in a PCIe slot) -- or you run the PCIe bus (4 lanes) through a Thunderbolt cable to a SATA controller which then plugs into a hard driver. If it is a single drive then the controller would be hidden in the hard drive enclosure... but in both cases it goes through PCIe to a hard drive controller to the hard drive. An eSATA port on the motherboard or PCIe slot would typically be cheaper to implement.
cornchip said: Either that or get a used trash can to tide me over till I see what the deal is with the NNMP & make up my mind from there.
I actually wonder if a 6 core mini might be faster than at least the base 'trash can' especially at certain things. I had been thinking about one, but now I'm headed toward the mini.
tadd said: If I was bummed about anything Apple is doing it's the Rights Management and taking away the ability to run any and all applications off of a network drive.
I'm not sure I understand what this is a reference to.
SpamSandwich said: There’s another way to look at this. If the iMac Pro and the Mac mini AND the new iPad Pros are such massive upgrades in computing power, just IMAGINE what the Mac Pro will be able to do. This is a renaissance for Apple’s hardware and a renaissance for the Mac line in particular.
And, I guess if they are headed more towards Macs being pro machines and iDevices more consumer oriented, at least the focus they do put on the Mac goes towards the types of machines more of us are interested in. I just don't believe the lines are that clearly drawn yet. There is still a need for a more entry cost Mac.
bkkcanuck said: Price for a maxed out mini is irrelevant... Apple could offer a 15TB SSD option and that would be priced at around $12,000. To use the maxed out number as a point of argument is lazy and trollish. What is a good point of comparison is what taking what the average or mean user would order and then doing it based on the specs of the machine...
... ... I have never known any 'switchers' in the last 8 years to buy a Mac Mini (personal experience) -- Mac Minis tend to be bought by more technical or experienced Mac users. ... ... For a new user (old or young) that does not have professional needs (behind the computer day after day) an occasional computer to do things... the iPad with a keyboard is more than enough for many... and it is available at rock-bottom entry levels.
re: maxed out - Yes, and that has always been the case (and is the case with a lot of products). The same happens when you buy a car, or a washing machine, or go out to eat at a restaurant. You pay a LOT more for the extras than the extras are worth. It's up-sell.
And, it seems to be the oldest trick in the media's book as well... either to stir up controversy and attention, or to try and show how much cheaper PCs are (i.e.: put a more maxed out Mac model against a slightly similar PC... instead of using a more reasonable model of each).
re: switchers - Well, way back when the mini was introduced, that was a bit more the case. That is who it was marketed towards, though I'd agree that I knew a heck of a lot of mini purchases that didn't fall into that category. I've owned them (as a long-time, experienced Mac user), people have put them in stereo cabinets and server racks. I know developers who used them, not because they were switching, but it was an easy Mac to add to their PC-centric setup.
re: iPad - I suppose, but one gets outside that limited workflow really quickly, professional or not. It's more about what apps they use and whether they deal with more than a dozen files. Of course, it's also possible I don't realize the magnitude of the number of computer users who only do browser and email (or maybe even just browser). The problem is that for those users, a $200 Chromebook is just fine too.
bkkcanuck said: The last Mac Mini was not worth $499 (IMHO) -- it would be insane to buy that.... the $799 is a better investment even at the higher price.
For sure. The old mini was a $300 computer sold for $500. This is more like an $850 computer sold for $950 or whatever (I'm not certain about the very base model with the i3... what's up with that? But, the i5 and i7 based models are pretty well priced for what they are.)
bkkcanuck said: ... I am very averse to an all-in-one desktop since in my experience one of the more common things to go is the monitor (back-lighting probably ... I also don't use just one monitor, so having a built in one is also not necessary because I am going to use an external monitor anyways. The laptop is for those that need to bring the computer with them. ...
Exactly! All-in-one or laptops might be great for some people. But, if you like to pick which monitor(s) you use, or don't need the portability, then Apple really had nothing until now (but a really outdated, overly-expensive model) unless you went with a ton of cash to an Mac Pro (which was also out of date).
And, if you go laptop, you're paying for a lot of stuff you don't need if you're just plugging it in anyway (mine sits on my desk like 95% of the time in clamshell mode). It's less convenient too, as the ports are all over the place and cables everywhere, not to mention the desktop space taken up. And, you get less power, likely worse cooling, etc.
As for monitors, aside from being able to pick your monitor setup, the big deal for me (to not want an iMac), was the lack of inputs. If I want to connect a PC or a game console, etc. then I'm out of luck. It's a single-use display. And, if you want a faster computer, you have to update the whole thing, not just the computer part.
“Space gray is so important to our Pro customers.” Really, Tim? I can list a dozen things more important to pro customers than the color of the box.
Well yeah... as I've said, the new Apple Power users are Kardashians and fashionistas... and the Pros are vloggers/Youtubers... color is far more important than functionality for that segment (I actually am surprised they're not adding a gold mini just for fashion vloggers)
Apple website says orders on MacMini placed today are still arriving Nov 7th. That's what it said just after the Brooklyn event. It also says Apple Store Pickup is still currently unavailable.
Apple website says orders on MacMini placed today are still arriving Nov 7th. That's what it said just after the Brooklyn event. It also says Apple Store Pickup is still currently unavailable.
Out in Thailand the website button has not switched to 'buy' yet -- so I would have to wait if I were not already planning on waiting for a few weeks.
“Space gray is so important to our Pro customers.” Really, Tim? I can list a dozen things more important to pro customers than the color of the box.
Well yeah... as I've said, the new Apple Power users are Kardashians and fashionistas... and the Pros are vloggers/Youtubers... color is far more important than functionality for that segment (I actually am surprised they're not adding a gold mini just for fashion vloggers)
Is it wrong to appeal to vloggers? Fashion or otherwise? That is certainly a pro application. Colorways in the product line isn’t costing anyone performance. The performance critics have been screaming about Apple not pushing hard enough since all Macs were uniformly gray.
polymnia said: Is it wrong to appeal to vloggers? Fashion or otherwise? That is certainly a pro application.
Not necessarily in the old definition of pro being applied to the hardware, not the user making money with their use-case. I suppose if the video transcoding runs for hours on end, then it's a pro application.
It's fine that Apple is appealing to them, and as much as I despise fashion, I'm OK with Apple catering to that as well. The problem has been that up until recently, it felt like they were ONLY catering to them, and leaving many of the other (more traditional) user-segments behind.
If Apple can be a product of substance, while also appealing to the fashionistas, that's OK. But, if they become solely a fashion symbol, devoid of substance... then we have a problem.
Comments
The $499 version that was available had only 4GB of RAM (soldered) and used spinning rust... Even at $499/599 today, that would be a real waste. Yes, the RAM is upgradeable on the new version (2 slots apparently) if you want to go that route, but your average user will not... The last Mac Mini was not worth $499 (IMHO) -- it would be insane to buy that.... the $799 is a better investment even at the higher price.
It is not in 'competition' with an iMac or laptop per se (if it was that would mean an overly complicated lineup which Apple tends to shy away from)... it is a choice based on needs. I am very averse to an all-in-one desktop since in my experience one of the more common things to go is the monitor (back-lighting probably) -- I have had lots of dead ones over the year... second only to Seagate HD as the most failed component. I also don't use just one monitor, so having a built in one is also not necessary because I am going to use an external monitor anyways. The laptop is for those that need to bring the computer with them. I have one of those. I will be buying a new Mac Mini (likely the i7-8700 6-core one) with 10GB ethernet and 8GB of RAM (which I will upgrade myself to 32GB) -- probably end of this month.
On another subject... the CPU in the high end Mac Mini is a i7-8700 3.2Ghz 65Watt not the i7-8700K 3.7Ghz 95Watt. Can anybody verify that?
All thunderbolt does is extend the PCIe bus (and increase the cost). Whether you have an eSATA port (which means you have a SATA controller on your motherboard or in a PCIe slot) -- or you run the PCIe bus (4 lanes) through a Thunderbolt cable to a SATA controller which then plugs into a hard driver. If it is a single drive then the controller would be hidden in the hard drive enclosure... but in both cases it goes through PCIe to a hard drive controller to the hard drive. An eSATA port on the motherboard or PCIe slot would typically be cheaper to implement.
I'm not sure I understand what this is a reference to.
And, I guess if they are headed more towards Macs being pro machines and iDevices more consumer oriented, at least the focus they do put on the Mac goes towards the types of machines more of us are interested in. I just don't believe the lines are that clearly drawn yet. There is still a need for a more entry cost Mac.
re: maxed out - Yes, and that has always been the case (and is the case with a lot of products). The same happens when you buy a car, or a washing machine, or go out to eat at a restaurant. You pay a LOT more for the extras than the extras are worth. It's up-sell.
And, it seems to be the oldest trick in the media's book as well... either to stir up controversy and attention, or to try and show how much cheaper PCs are (i.e.: put a more maxed out Mac model against a slightly similar PC... instead of using a more reasonable model of each).
re: switchers - Well, way back when the mini was introduced, that was a bit more the case. That is who it was marketed towards, though I'd agree that I knew a heck of a lot of mini purchases that didn't fall into that category. I've owned them (as a long-time, experienced Mac user), people have put them in stereo cabinets and server racks. I know developers who used them, not because they were switching, but it was an easy Mac to add to their PC-centric setup.
re: iPad - I suppose, but one gets outside that limited workflow really quickly, professional or not. It's more about what apps they use and whether they deal with more than a dozen files. Of course, it's also possible I don't realize the magnitude of the number of computer users who only do browser and email (or maybe even just browser). The problem is that for those users, a $200 Chromebook is just fine too.
Exactly! All-in-one or laptops might be great for some people. But, if you like to pick which monitor(s) you use, or don't need the portability, then Apple really had nothing until now (but a really outdated, overly-expensive model) unless you went with a ton of cash to an Mac Pro (which was also out of date).
And, if you go laptop, you're paying for a lot of stuff you don't need if you're just plugging it in anyway (mine sits on my desk like 95% of the time in clamshell mode). It's less convenient too, as the ports are all over the place and cables everywhere, not to mention the desktop space taken up. And, you get less power, likely worse cooling, etc.
As for monitors, aside from being able to pick your monitor setup, the big deal for me (to not want an iMac), was the lack of inputs. If I want to connect a PC or a game console, etc. then I'm out of luck. It's a single-use display. And, if you want a faster computer, you have to update the whole thing, not just the computer part.
It's fine that Apple is appealing to them, and as much as I despise fashion, I'm OK with Apple catering to that as well. The problem has been that up until recently, it felt like they were ONLY catering to them, and leaving many of the other (more traditional) user-segments behind.
If Apple can be a product of substance, while also appealing to the fashionistas, that's OK. But, if they become solely a fashion symbol, devoid of substance... then we have a problem.