Lighting cables has been Johnny Ive’s Achiles heel, an inexplicable engineering and design disgrace. For decades, Apple cables (AppleTalk and ADB) represented the quality and sturdiness of Apple hardware. Nobody ever even think of one of those failing or breaking. Nowdays, you have to annualy (with luck) include in your family budget at least $150 to replace Apple lighting cables and laptop power bricks because cable failures. I love Apple computers...but man...their cables stinks..!
Hyperbole and nonsense. $150/year? How big and abusive is your family? I would appreciate more durable cables, but a) what does that have to do with the connector and b) I expect that Ive has virtually no input into the design of any cables.
The cables and the device both desperately need a marking system so you can figure out what cable should be used (just looking at the 1 meter cables or shorter) Then when it comes to longer cables the device needs to have a table so the effect of a longer cable is known.
Even the TIA working group which sets standards for UTP network cabling was smart enough to see they couldn't drop the RJ45 connector, What they did do is create a new connector standard to run in parallel for higher data rates.
The dependability of the connector is not as good as the Lightning! I'm not sure how the current connector can be fixed. This is one of many reasons the USB-A connector should be kept. While the idea of having one common connector is a lofty goal, in the real world its just not that practical! Slow speed devices don't need to waste the limited I/O of the system, in addition, these slow speed devices are the ones that are often constantly plugged in which wears the connector.
The last issue here is the world is based on USB-A, and will be for a long, long time! Thinking we can change on a dime is just fantasy! We need native USB-A support in all computers! We all have too much invested in USB-A devices of some form or other.
Let's not pretend that there aren't USB-A charging outlets in facilities all over the world. If we went to USB-C to lightning then we would still have to keep a USB-A to lightning cable handy to top off our lightning-based devices in cafes/airports/etc. Then we are just going to have an extra cable to travel with and that doesn't make much sense over what we do now. It makes more sense to either just replace the lightning port with USB-C so one pair of USB-A to USB-C and USB-C to USB-C cables can be used to charge any of our devices, or to wait for a wireless power standard that can truly replace charging cables entirely.
This. USB A has become a standard. No matter how much Apple wants to deny it it is and will be the standard for a while. My kitchen has a USB A outlet in the wall. My 2017 car has 2 USB A outlets. At the airport, there were USB A charging outlets. The emergency battery packs sold in the airport vending machine have USB A outlets. On the plane, there were USB A outlets. In the rental car - USB A outlets. At the Hotel, USB A outlets.
Yes, I can get an adapter. I have one for my MacBook Pro because all it has is the damned USB C ports that aren't compatible with any accessory older than 6 months old, including every currently produced iPhone. Nor is it compatible with my company-issued security key. My question is why should we get an adapter so we can use it 90+% of the time instead of having a cable that just works without an adapter. And by the way, take a tour over to the Apple Store and look at the reviews for USB C adapters. The majority of them have 2 star reviews because they don't work. Even the lowly USB A - USB C adapter made by apple got panned because USB A plugs kept getting stuck in it.
I had a MacBook Air had the MagSafe connector which ran circles around USB C IME. It was quicker and easier to connect. It was reversible. It had a charging light so you could tell if it was charging or complete without even opening the device and it saved my ass several times when the dog or kids tripped over the cord. The only benefit of the USB C is I can plug it in on either side of the computer - something I still don't know that I need.
I agree with the other posters - USB C is a mess. with USB A, you knew what you had. With USB C - you have no idea. You may have a charging cable. You may have a data cable. You may have both. you may have a thunderbolt cable. If you get a hub, it may allow for data, it may not. Ditto with charging. Even if it allows for data, it might not be thunderbolt.
Just because USB-A is bordering on ubiquity in installation does not mean the industry shouldn't push it to a better standard. USB-C seems in many respects a much better port for charging purposes. And it's not like there haven't been wholesale changes in connector standards before -- two-prong outlets to three-prong, four-pin phone connectors to modular, CAT-3 to Cat-5, and so on. I'll give you that USB-A is a darn near universal standard compared to the international electrical and phone variations, but the sooner the transition starts, the better.
More than likely this will start to change only after wireless charging become a common feature on the devices we currently need to plug into USB-A ports. Then it likely won't matter quite so much.
Lighting cables has been Johnny Ive’s Achiles heel, an inexplicable engineering and design disgrace. For decades, Apple cables (AppleTalk and ADB) represented the quality and sturdiness of Apple hardware. Nobody ever even think of one of those failing or breaking. Nowdays, you have to annualy (with luck) include in your family budget at least $150 to replace Apple lighting cables and laptop power bricks because cable failures. I love Apple computers...but man...their cables stinks..!
Hyperbole and nonsense. $150/year? How big and abusive is your family? I would appreciate more durable cables, but a) what does that have to do with the connector and b) I expect that Ive has virtually no input into the design of any cables.
The only thing I've seen is worn connectors from grit and other junk getting into a Lightning connector which would also kill USB-C as well. Worn cable sheathing and damaged wires within the cables is also a common issue.
Power bricks are their own problem! If Apple had offered a connector on the MagSafe power adapter (as they do now) then I could see a lot of the failures could have been avoided and fixed a lot easier. Many a time a bad cable or MagSafe connector can damage the Mac system's charging logic which is an expensive repair.
Apple could start by going with USB-C to Lightning cables with iDevices. A USB-A to C adapter is a perfectly stable little thing. Going the other way is, well, kind of awkward, involving dongles because a pair of fixed adapters won't fit side-by-side in the ports.
But the Thunderbolt 2 thing is even more flagrant. Consider, with an Ethernet hookup, right now, you've got a choice between a nice, cool-running Apple TB2 Ethernet dongle that uses very little power but has to be piggy backed off an equally power efficient but expensive TB3-TB2 adapter, or else you use a third party USB-based dongle that overheats and drains an incredible amount of power. Can't Apple at least do a straight-up TB3 Ethernet adapter?
... ...or else you use a third party USB-based dongle that overheats and drains an incredible amount of power. Can't Apple at least do a straight-up TB3 Ethernet adapter?
There are now scores of USB-C to Ethernet adapters out there--which ones did you use that overheat and drain power?
I have seen plenty of the older USB-A Ethernet adapters, and none of them overheat. By nature, any dongle can only draw so much power from its USB port, so I am really surprised to hear this. Now that I think about it, I can't imagine why an Ethernet interface chip used in a TB dongle would draw significantly less power than what must be a very similar chip on a USB dongle.
Now, I too would prefer to see a TB3-to-Ethernet adapter just on general principle, and while there are a few out there, they are bulky and expensive. My guess is that USB-3 based USB-C is plenty fast enough for Gigabit Ethernet, and given how common USB-3 is, volume must be a major factor that has driven the price down. Perhaps as TB3 gets more popular, we'll see better options in the near future. I'm not sure why Apple or anyone else can't make a slimmer, less expensive TB3 based adapter, but as they say, "if it was easy, everyone would be doing it."
I’ve yet to see a car with a USBC port, but there are already cars with wireless charging built in.
I'd still label this as vaporware until it starts shipping to customers (I'm very strict that way, even for Apple products that I have no doubt will be on shelves when they say they will), but there is at least some acknowledgement which is occurring right where one would expect it to happen.
It'll still take a very, very, very long time in terms of the technology world to reach each stage (first automobile ⟶ he majority of automobile manufacturers ⟶every reasonable new car), like just we saw we USB-A, and even 30-pin connectors for connecting an iPod to a car radio before that, but I think we all know that it will happen.
My only questions are who and when will be the first to offer enough power to charge a much more powerful device… potentially even a 15" MacBook Pro.
I know my desire is unpopular, but I'd personally like to see Apple address this by dropping the PSU (and EarPods) from all iDevices. This would save money and waste on many levels, including making the box considerably smaller which means they could both ship and store more units of all their iDevices in the same space. They could offer both a USB-A and USB-C-to-Lighting cables, or both a USB-C-to-Lighting cable with a USB-A(m)-to-USB-C(f) adapter for a year or two, since cables do wear out over time, are much less expensive, and require much fewer harder to recycle parts that aren't nearly as bad for landfills.
I would love to see Apple try this as a carrot not a stick approach. Do skinny box base versions of all iOS devices without any accessories but say double the storage so they all have 128Gb instead of 64 or even 32 in some models.
Also offer large storage options in a skinny box at a discount as well.
Opened a kitchen draw raw just an hour ago and found another 2 PSU just lying there.
Lighting cables has been Johnny Ive’s Achiles heel, an inexplicable engineering and design disgrace. For decades, Apple cables (AppleTalk and ADB) represented the quality and sturdiness of Apple hardware. Nobody ever even think of one of those failing or breaking. Nowdays, you have to annualy (with luck) include in your family budget at least $150 to replace Apple lighting cables and laptop power bricks because cable failures. I love Apple computers...but man...their cables stinks..!
$150? Bullshit. I've never had an Apple Lightning cable stop working, only 3rd party cables. None of my laptop chargers have failed either, and I still have my nearly 8 year old original MagSafe.
I think you may be in the minority. I'm not saying Apple cables are bad, but they're prone to failure same as any other cable. We've had the computer end of two MagSafe power adaptors go south on us, but that's over six years so I don't know if that's good or bad.
We have USB-A to Lightning cables all over the house, and usually replace two per year. Again, I don't know if that's good or bad.
We're spending about $75/year on replacement cables for Apple stuff.
I know my desire is unpopular, but I'd personally like to see Apple address this by dropping the PSU (and EarPods) from all iDevices. This would save money and waste on many levels, including making the box considerably smaller which means they could both ship and store more units of all their iDevices in the same space. They could offer both a USB-A and USB-C-to-Lighting cables, or both a USB-C-to-Lighting cable with a USB-A(m)-to-USB-C(f) adapter for a year or two, since cables do wear out over time, are much less expensive, and require much fewer harder to recycle parts that aren't nearly as bad for landfills.
It continues to irk me that buying apple's most expensive laptop means that I also have to buy expensive cables to replace the ones that come with Apple products. Instead of saddling me with another USB-A cable I can't use and making me buy a stupidly expensive replacement, I wish Apple would at least give me a choice!
The little SanDisk external SSD I picked up for a gig a few weeks ago solves the problem brilliantly (see photo). I'd like to see more vendors adopt this approach.
I think we should focus on getting rid of analog ports (the headphone jack being the only remaining one) and going all digital. USB-A might be old but it's still fully digital so no need to rush its demise.
But the Thunderbolt 2 thing is even more flagrant. Consider, with an Ethernet hookup, right now, you've got a choice between a nice, cool-running Apple TB2 Ethernet dongle that uses very little power but has to be piggy backed off an equally power efficient but expensive TB3-TB2 adapter, or else you use a third party USB-based dongle that overheats and drains an incredible amount of power. Can't Apple at least do a straight-up TB3 Ethernet adapter?
This is weird to me. USB is cheap and ubiquitous, and USB 3 over a USB-C connector is what, 30x as fast as Gbit Ethernet.
So so somebody needs to embrace Thunderbolt 3 to build a solution with much more expensive chips, for a much smaller market, that is 40x faster than needed?
Let's not pretend that there aren't USB-A charging outlets in facilities all over the world. If we went to USB-C to lightning then we would still have to keep a USB-A to lightning cable handy to top off our lightning-based devices in cafes/airports/etc. Then we are just going to have an extra cable to travel with and that doesn't make much sense over what we do now. It makes more sense to either just replace the lightning port with USB-C so one pair of USB-A to USB-C and USB-C to USB-C cables can be used to charge any of our devices, or to wait for a wireless power standard that can truly replace charging cables entirely.
This. USB A has become a standard. No matter how much Apple wants to deny it it is and will be the standard for a while. My kitchen has a USB A outlet in the wall. My 2017 car has 2 USB A outlets. At the airport, there were USB A charging outlets. The emergency battery packs sold in the airport vending machine have USB A outlets. On the plane, there were USB A outlets. In the rental car - USB A outlets. At the Hotel, USB A outlets.
Yes, I can get an adapter. I have one for my MacBook Pro because all it has is the damned USB C ports that aren't compatible with any accessory older than 6 months old, including every currently produced iPhone. Nor is it compatible with my company-issued security key. My question is why should we get an adapter so we can use it 90+% of the time instead of having a cable that just works without an adapter. And by the way, take a tour over to the Apple Store and look at the reviews for USB C adapters. The majority of them have 2 star reviews because they don't work. Even the lowly USB A - USB C adapter made by apple got panned because USB A plugs kept getting stuck in it.
I had a MacBook Air had the MagSafe connector which ran circles around USB C IME. It was quicker and easier to connect. It was reversible. It had a charging light so you could tell if it was charging or complete without even opening the device and it saved my ass several times when the dog or kids tripped over the cord. The only benefit of the USB C is I can plug it in on either side of the computer - something I still don't know that I need.
I agree with the other posters - USB C is a mess. with USB A, you knew what you had. With USB C - you have no idea. You may have a charging cable. You may have a data cable. You may have both. you may have a thunderbolt cable. If you get a hub, it may allow for data, it may not. Ditto with charging. Even if it allows for data, it might not be thunderbolt.
Just because USB-A is bordering on ubiquity in installation does not mean the industry shouldn't push it to a better standard. USB-C seems in many respects a much better port for charging purposes. And it's not like there haven't been wholesale changes in connector standards before -- two-prong outlets to three-prong, four-pin phone connectors to modular, CAT-3 to Cat-5, and so on. I'll give you that USB-A is a darn near universal standard compared to the international electrical and phone variations, but the sooner the transition starts, the better.
More than likely this will start to change only after wireless charging become a common feature on the devices we currently need to plug into USB-A ports. Then it likely won't matter quite so much.
USB C has 4 advantages that I can tell: 1. reversibility 2. Higher power capability 3. higher speed 4. the ability to combine with thunderbolt
Number 4 is in some ways a liability because it creates confusion, making it more difficult to use. In the vast majority of cases, the speed and thunderbolt capability are completely unnecessary; for many/most purposes, USB 3 via a USB A connector was more than adequate. Likewise, there are the added power capacity of USB C is rarely needed as well. Not only that, not all cables are spec'd to meet this capability, adding additional confusion. The point in all this is the fact that as you said, we have a near universal standard with USB A and there are very few cases where it doesn't meet the needs. As such, there is no real benefit or driving force to change the standard.
I think we should focus on getting rid of analog ports (the headphone jack being the only remaining one) and going all digital.
I'm curious why you want the headphone jack removed? What advantage do you perceive from that?
Headphones are analog. They have transducers in them. At some point before the speaker, the signal MUST be converted to analog and amplified.
The phone or tablet already has a digital-to-analog converter and an amplifier. Removing the headphone jack doesn't mean they can be removed too, because they're required for the speaker(s) on the device itself. By removing the headphone jack, those parts of the chain have to be duplicated in the form of a dongle hanging inelegantly on the outside of the device, instead of just using the parts that already exist, tucked neatly inside the device.
On devices with only one "digital" port like a phone or tablet, removing the headphone jack means that any wired audio connection ties up the port so it can't be used for anything else. That complicates some really common uses cases, like using the device in the car. With only a Lightning port on the phone I can either charge or listen to it, not both, unless I add a dongle that does nothing more than duplicate parts that are already inside the phone!
None of this is insurmountable. Adapters and wireless alternatives exist. I just don't see how they offer any ADVANTAGE. They add cost, require charging additional devices, and are less convenient. How is this BETTER than just leaving the headphone jack where it is/was?
I'm a musician. MIDI as a system of connectivity & control has been around for 40 years and is still more reliable than (MIDI over) USB. So much gear can continue to be used successfully in studios and live because the standards DO NOT change so rapidly. So rapid migration to new connectors is not always the best thing. And don't get me started on headphone sockets... ;-)
USB-C is by far a better connector than USB-A and is backwards compatible with the older USB data protocols, so not sure what you're talking about.
Just musing that new for the sake of it isn't always better (altho' I understand data speeds, etc improve). it's about the best 'tool for the job' imo
Comments
The cables and the device both desperately need a marking system so you can figure out what cable should be used (just looking at the 1 meter cables or shorter) Then when it comes to longer cables the device needs to have a table so the effect of a longer cable is known.
Even the TIA working group which sets standards for UTP network cabling was smart enough to see they couldn't drop the RJ45 connector, What they did do is create a new connector standard to run in parallel for higher data rates.
The dependability of the connector is not as good as the Lightning! I'm not sure how the current connector can be fixed. This is one of many reasons the USB-A connector should be kept. While the idea of having one common connector is a lofty goal, in the real world its just not that practical! Slow speed devices don't need to waste the limited I/O of the system, in addition, these slow speed devices are the ones that are often constantly plugged in which wears the connector.
The last issue here is the world is based on USB-A, and will be for a long, long time! Thinking we can change on a dime is just fantasy! We need native USB-A support in all computers! We all have too much invested in USB-A devices of some form or other.
More than likely this will start to change only after wireless charging become a common feature on the devices we currently need to plug into USB-A ports. Then it likely won't matter quite so much.
Power bricks are their own problem! If Apple had offered a connector on the MagSafe power adapter (as they do now) then I could see a lot of the failures could have been avoided and fixed a lot easier. Many a time a bad cable or MagSafe connector can damage the Mac system's charging logic which is an expensive repair.
Apple could start by going with USB-C to Lightning cables with iDevices. A USB-A to C adapter is a perfectly stable little thing. Going the other way is, well, kind of awkward, involving dongles because a pair of fixed adapters won't fit side-by-side in the ports.
But the Thunderbolt 2 thing is even more flagrant. Consider, with an Ethernet hookup, right now, you've got a choice between a nice, cool-running Apple TB2 Ethernet dongle that uses very little power but has to be piggy backed off an equally power efficient but expensive TB3-TB2 adapter, or else you use a third party USB-based dongle that overheats and drains an incredible amount of power. Can't Apple at least do a straight-up TB3 Ethernet adapter?
I have seen plenty of the older USB-A Ethernet adapters, and none of them overheat. By nature, any dongle can only draw so much power from its USB port, so I am really surprised to hear this. Now that I think about it, I can't imagine why an Ethernet interface chip used in a TB dongle would draw significantly less power than what must be a very similar chip on a USB dongle.
Now, I too would prefer to see a TB3-to-Ethernet adapter just on general principle, and while there are a few out there, they are bulky and expensive. My guess is that USB-3 based USB-C is plenty fast enough for Gigabit Ethernet, and given how common USB-3 is, volume must be a major factor that has driven the price down. Perhaps as TB3 gets more popular, we'll see better options in the near future. I'm not sure why Apple or anyone else can't make a slimmer, less expensive TB3 based adapter, but as they say, "if it was easy, everyone would be doing it."
I’d take an iPhone with no cable connection at all if it made the device sturdier, more waterproof and physically functional.
It didnt seem to be a popular thought at the moment, but I’m happy to see it coming up again.
I’m certainly not advocating for removing ports from iPads or Macs, but for iPhones, I feel ready to make that jump.
It'll still take a very, very, very long time in terms of the technology world to reach each stage (first automobile ⟶ he majority of automobile manufacturers ⟶every reasonable new car), like just we saw we USB-A, and even 30-pin connectors for connecting an iPod to a car radio before that, but I think we all know that it will happen.
My only questions are who and when will be the first to offer enough power to charge a much more powerful device… potentially even a 15" MacBook Pro.
Also offer large storage options in a skinny box at a discount as well.
Opened a kitchen draw raw just an hour ago and found another 2 PSU just lying there.
We have USB-A to Lightning cables all over the house, and usually replace two per year. Again, I don't know if that's good or bad.
We're spending about $75/year on replacement cables for Apple stuff.
The little SanDisk external SSD I picked up for a gig a few weeks ago solves the problem brilliantly (see photo). I'd like to see more vendors adopt this approach.
So so somebody needs to embrace Thunderbolt 3 to build a solution with much more expensive chips, for a much smaller market, that is 40x faster than needed?
1. reversibility
2. Higher power capability
3. higher speed
4. the ability to combine with thunderbolt
Number 4 is in some ways a liability because it creates confusion, making it more difficult to use. In the vast majority of cases, the speed and thunderbolt capability are completely unnecessary; for many/most purposes, USB 3 via a USB A connector was more than adequate. Likewise, there are the added power capacity of USB C is rarely needed as well. Not only that, not all cables are spec'd to meet this capability, adding additional confusion. The point in all this is the fact that as you said, we have a near universal standard with USB A and there are very few cases where it doesn't meet the needs. As such, there is no real benefit or driving force to change the standard.
Headphones are analog. They have transducers in them. At some point before the speaker, the signal MUST be converted to analog and amplified.
The phone or tablet already has a digital-to-analog converter and an amplifier. Removing the headphone jack doesn't mean they can be removed too, because they're required for the speaker(s) on the device itself. By removing the headphone jack, those parts of the chain have to be duplicated in the form of a dongle hanging inelegantly on the outside of the device, instead of just using the parts that already exist, tucked neatly inside the device.
On devices with only one "digital" port like a phone or tablet, removing the headphone jack means that any wired audio connection ties up the port so it can't be used for anything else. That complicates some really common uses cases, like using the device in the car. With only a Lightning port on the phone I can either charge or listen to it, not both, unless I add a dongle that does nothing more than duplicate parts that are already inside the phone!
None of this is insurmountable. Adapters and wireless alternatives exist. I just don't see how they offer any ADVANTAGE. They add cost, require charging additional devices, and are less convenient. How is this BETTER than just leaving the headphone jack where it is/was?