MacBook, MacBook Air or MacBook Pro: which one is right for you?

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  • Reply 81 of 120
    bitmod said:
    jdw said:
    It's a dead horse that's been beaten for going on its third year now. When does it stop? Most "pros" have moved on and are adapting just fine.
    Whoever clicked "Informative" on your Yawn post must be ready for bed themselves, if they aren't already fast asleep.

    The only place where many of those "Pros have moved onto" is Windows.  I for one will NOT be doing that.  Seriously, Apple is taking a shotgun to the Mac faithful by incorporating extremist levels of minimalism into their designs.  I've loved Macs since 1984, not because they were the most feature rich machines relative to Windoze, but because they were PRACTICAL TO ME.  The late 2016 and newer MBP's are no longer machines that I deem practical, and it doesn't matter one teensy tiny bit to me if a few other people do enjoy the excessive minimalism.  Again, I dare Apple to give us a full featured notebook selling along side their existing line.  Let's see who's right.  My guess is that I am right.  For who in their right mind would buy a stripped down machine for $4500 when you can get more features for that amount of money, and your life is better as a result?  Apple removed key features for no sensible reason at all.  It's a crying shame.  I continue to send Apple feedback about it, and encourage like-minded Mac users to do the same.  If we pound hard enough and long enough, the company just might wise up, especially if the media joins us.

    Don't some of you get tired of your fellow Mac users blindly worshipping every decision out of Cupertino as if somehow Steve Jobs is still alive and blessed it?  Steve is no longer around and it shows.  Steve was pro-minimalism too, but at least he knew where to draw the line.  Johnny Ive's line is "so little design there's no design at all."  It's like a blank piece of paper, yet without the paper.  Sorry, but that's not practical for me, and there's a lot more people out there like me too.  Not every Mac user loves what Apple has been doing to the Mac since Steve's departure from this planet.  And we let our voices be heard, both in online forums and at Apple's feedback channel. 

    And before a Cupertino Worshipper comes along and bashes me for having the guts to say all this, time and time again, consider well that Apple has 3 different notebook lines! Folks, did you hear that?  THREE DIFFERENT LINES!  These "I don't need ports, and I don't care about dongles or tactile feedback" people who perpetually defend Apple need only buy a MacBook or MacBook AIR to satisfy their lusting after zero practicality.  Why must Apple also gut the MacBook Pro?  It makes NO SENSE at all.  Apple should keep the Pro model feature rich, bridging the needs of today (which includes USB-A and an SD card slot) with the needs of tomorrow, which includes USB-C/TB3.  They have the MacBook and AIR to strip down to their heart's content.  Why must they also gut the Pro?  Again, it's the dumbest business decision I've ever come across.  And don't give me the "well, they needed to be consistent across the line and really push USB-C too, which they couldn't if they included USB-A."  All speculation and wild guesses, and I don't even care if these guesses are correct.

    It's time for Apple to consider THE REST OF US.  They aren't now.
    That's the thing -- they are. They are considering "the rest of us," meaning the vast majority of the computer market, with the Mac for possibly the first time since the bondi iMac. I'm not sure how many times I have to point it out that the target just isn't you, and probably also not a decent percent of the long-time AI reader base. Keep sending that feedback, if you'd like, I encourage it. Just realize that you are a drop in the bucket.

    If a Windows PC is the right tool for your job, just get that, man. You're not going to get what you want from Apple.
    They aren't - and today it was released that their marketshare has crashed in Q3 and overall in general. 
    I'm the hardest core of the hardcores of Apple faithful and I'm a hair away from abandoning them myself. If the next set of iMac's (now a year and a half without upgrade) is locked down with T2 (fuck you - pay me) chips - and next to no ports and garbage video card - I'm gone. I'm not going to wait to see what bullshit-out of this world expensive-100% locked down clueless 'Pro' solution they are going to have for me. Nor is any other business with half a clue. 

    And it won't just be me. I have a lot of clients who switched on my recommendation and to be on the same platform as myself for support reasons.
    They lose me - they lose hundreds of Mac's sold. Easily over $600,000 in sales over the next few years. 
    They lose the desktop platform, it's going to trickle down into lost sales on phones and iPads. 

    Their head is so far up their asses right now it's not even funny. They are so far behind they think they are first - and the cheerleaders here thinking there is some 'magical' market of loyalists outside of Professionals - that will replace the creative industry and small business... well, that's not going to end well. 
    Consumers follow the Pro's. Always have, always will. The mass migration away from Apple is nothing to celebrate - and it's happening right now. 

    They need to fire Ives, replace Cook - and start making quality products that people want again... not forced compliance locked in with all the gimmicks. 
    The direction is wrong. It's completely wrong. 
    This is no different than when Scully took over - and the same types (investors) who cheered him are the same shortsighted fools cheering Cook and Ives now. 

    I will tell you now, and I know I'll get scorched - but Apple is doomed - if they stay on this insanely greedy and narcissistic path. 

    Hey Cook, Ives... not every company is Pixar with hundreds of millions in the bank. Maybe come out of your tower and visit us commoners. 
    Keep in mind that the appeal of the Mac line comes not from its hardware (which weirdly gets all the attention) but from its software / OS as well as the Apple ecosystem.

    I agree, hardware wise, they could do a LOT better.  But running away from the hardware throws you right into the pigsty that is Windows.  So, its a choice:  to get the best operating environment you have to put up with limited hardware functionality and choices.
    elijahgjdw
  • Reply 82 of 120
    chia said:
    This article on which Mac portable is exactly what I needed.  I am in the market for a new Mac after long making do with a very old Aluminium Unibody MacBook.  I'm finding it quite difficult to decide which portable to go for, I have to think in terms of workflows and it's a pretty mixed bag of document audio and video creation/editing together with some iOS development as I become more proficient.

    I am finding quite difficult to choose between the MacBook Air and the 13 inch MacBook Pro with TouchBar, which was my initial intention to purchase before seeing the new iPad Pros.  Now I'm mulling over the idea of getting a MacBook Air for the "desktop apps" and video editing in combination with an iPad Pro for the document review, creation and editing.  I'm inclined to sticking to my original choice and adding an iPad Pro but that will be really stretching my budget, more so when thinking of how much RAM and storage to get.  I've noticed the London Apple stores don't appear to keep 16GB 13 inch MacBook pros in stock.

    I'm somewhat unsettled by the barrage of grumbling about the lack of USB-A; the Thunderbolt 3 ports are far more versatile, unlike USB-A you can have any port you need, be it Power, display, USB or even a combination with a mere change of cable at worst.

    The grumbling about Thunderbolt 3 ports is an ironic mirror of people grumbling when in 1997 the first iMac only had strange new ports called USB and none of the legacy serial or SCSI ports from previous Macs.  Six to seven years later those legacy ports were forgotten as the vast majority of computers were using USB ports.
    20 years later and the availability of USB-C connectors and cables is much better now in comparison to availability of USB cables and peripherals for the first iMac:  Four/five years from now people will be scratching their heads as to why some were so desperate to hold onto USB-A ports.

    Do not neglect to look at the 2017 MacBook Air -- it's a LOT cheaper (even if you upgrade to an i7), the SSD can be upgraded later, and it has (what most people believe to be) a better keyboard.

    For the iPad:  I wouldn't rush into it unless you plan to use it strictly as a handheld tablet.  I think Apple will be releasing an external keyboard with a mouse or touchpad in the near future.
    jdw
  • Reply 83 of 120
    lewchenko said:
    Sadly none are the best for me either. 

    Too many compromises on each model for the relatively exorbitant prices. 
    Bad keyboards, limited ports, a difficult to explain poor choice in screen (Air) - quite dim, price options for upgrading memory and disk are daylight robbery. 

    After much deliberation ,my 2013 MBP isn’t getting upgraded any time soon. 

    Im not sure Apple and I see the future the same way any more. But hey, they seem to be selling lots of them to the coffee shop crowds. 

    People can can dismiss the keyboard issue but nobody can deny there are a volume of people who hate it. (And for Apple to ignore them says one thing plus the fact there are a volume of people making noise about the keyboard also tells you it’s a polarising design - no computer maker should want or have to keep justifying a keyboard design choice- no other vendor has to like Apple does. Wish they could admit their mistake here.  )

    Good article though. Appreciated the comparison.  
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    elijahg
  • Reply 84 of 120
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    Yes, I wonder about this too. This week I watched 23 YouTube reviews of the new MacBook Air (yes, twenty three!). They were mostly positive, except on one issue - the keyboard. Only three of these reviews actually praised the keyboard, while the rest were negative or lukewarm about it. Typical comments were, 'once you get used to the butterfly keyboard, it's tolerable', and 'It's not going to be everyone's taste', and 'If you like the old MacBook keyboards you may not warm to this one', and 'tactility is not this keyboard's strong point' and so on. In other words, the keyboards were damned with faint praise.

    My hunch is that Apple believes the future of laptops is all about flat screens with haptic feedback - and that these ultra flat keyboards are designed to condition us to accept this future. The trouble is that this vision conflicts with our human need to physically touch and feel things, and manipulate them through time and space in 3 dimensions. 

    I am not suggesting that Apple goes all Steampunk - but they need to recognise people's love of physicality, and our innate desire to touch, push, slide, twist and squeeze things - and not just swipe and tap. 

    A decade ago, the consensus was that e-Book readers (virtual screens) would decimate the physical book industry. How wrong they were. During 2017-18 sales of e-books have plateaued while sales of physical books are at record highs. Why? Because people prefer turning a page to tapping on a screen. Funny about that.

    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    GeorgeBMacelijahg
  • Reply 85 of 120
    chiachia Posts: 712member
    chia said:
    This article on which Mac portable is exactly what I needed.  I am in the market for a new Mac after long making do with a very old Aluminium Unibody MacBook.

    I'm mulling over the idea of getting a MacBook Air for the "desktop apps" and video editing in combination with an iPad Pro for the document review, creation and editing.

    I'm somewhat unsettled by the barrage of grumbling about the lack of USB-A
    Do not neglect to look at the 2017 MacBook Air -- it's a LOT cheaper (even if you upgrade to an i7), the SSD can be upgraded later, and it has (what most people believe to be) a better keyboard.

    For the iPad:  I wouldn't rush into it unless you plan to use it strictly as a handheld tablet.  I think Apple will be releasing an external keyboard with a mouse or touchpad in the near future.

    Sorry but the 2017 MacBook Air is not a contender for me: no Retina display and no Thunderbolt3; I want the flexibility of Thunderbolt3 and the 2018 offerings will take me into the future, not leave me dwelling in the past.

    I'm still using external drives with my current Mac despite having upgraded the RAM and internal drive.  I think with the speed of both the internal SSDs and Thunderbolt3/USB 3.1 I can happily continue working in this way with a new Mac.

    As for the keyboard, yes, I've tried it several times on the new machines at Apple Stores.  Yes, the lack of travel did feel odd to me but guess what, after a few minutes I found I could quite comfortably type, so no problem there.

    The tablet form by its nature is orientated towards being held in the hand; I feel if most of the use is at a desk or with a keyboard then you're probably better off with a laptop.
    I'm not particularly interested in using a mouse with a tablet:  I've experimented using one with a cheap Windows 8 tablet and I've found it to be clumsy: lots of tiny icons and right-clicking that's tricky to navigate even with a mouse; impractical/impossible to use whilst handheld.  I think this is the fundamental problem with Windows 2 in 1 devices: most software developers don't bother to make tablet-friendly versions of their apps that cater to ideal tablet usage and interface because the user can put their device into "desktop mode".
    edited November 2018 macpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 86 of 120
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,424administrator
    jdw said:
    Look, I've been using Macs since they had 9" B&W screens too. I'd gladly take four 40Gbps TB3 ports in the fastest MacBook Pro ever made over some random bespoke ports in a heartbeat, and yeah I'm about to drop $5K on one because it will make my life better as a result, because it's a tool I use to get work done. I cannot wait to get rid of all my shitty USB-A cords and replace them with USB-C, recycle my Firewire devices and get a little portable hub for the odd times I need random shit like an SD card reader or USB-A port or ethernet. It's really not that big of a deal, and I would never refer to them as "stripped down" or gutted by any means. There are very simple solutions for people who need legacy connectors, but there's absolutely no reason you need a built-in USB-A port in 2018. 

    And you don't know what Jobs would've done, he was the one who ripped out all the legacy ports and switched to USB-A, it's hard to imagine he'd not be more or less doing exactly what they're doing right now for the same reasons he did back then.


    It's always at this point someone then comes along bashing (e.g., Strange Days, Kevin Kee, Bestkeptsecret & Co.) me by saying, "Hey man.  It doesn't matter what YOU think because Apple is making money hand over fist doing it their own way.  They know better than you on all points."  To which I can only reply (and to Mike W.), "Oh yeah?"



    This is only part of my point. The remainder of my point is that they know you exist, and have chosen to not give you what you want, mostly to better service the company's larger market that isn't looking for what you are.

    That's the problem with communities surrounding a company. They have needs, but don't generally realize that despite the disproportionate loudness of the complaints about the issues that they face, they are at best an infinitesimally small portion of that company's larger customer base that generally has other needs and wants.

    I know what I want. I want a micro-ATX Mac with PCI-E slots, slotted RAM, and NVMe slotted storage without kludges or system modification. I've done that, and maintenance of it is a royal pain in the ass. However, I've been doing this job long enough both forward-facing and privately to know that I'm not going to get it from Apple, because of that larger market. I love you guys, but I don't understand why you don't see that too.

    Oh, and I read that story too. When six out of seven market watchdogs say that the PC market is contracting but Apple's contraction is less than that overall rate with one of the seven disagreeing like in yesterday's report, there's a conflict. We'll be talking about it more next week.
    edited November 2018 macpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 120
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    edited November 2018 chiaelijahg
  • Reply 88 of 120
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    jdw said:
    Look, I've been using Macs since they had 9" B&W screens too. I'd gladly take four 40Gbps TB3 ports in the fastest MacBook Pro ever made over some random bespoke ports in a heartbeat, and yeah I'm about to drop $5K on one because it will make my life better as a result, because it's a tool I use to get work done. I cannot wait to get rid of all my shitty USB-A cords and replace them with USB-C, recycle my Firewire devices and get a little portable hub for the odd times I need random shit like an SD card reader or USB-A port or ethernet. It's really not that big of a deal, and I would never refer to them as "stripped down" or gutted by any means. There are very simple solutions for people who need legacy connectors, but there's absolutely no reason you need a built-in USB-A port in 2018. 

    And you don't know what Jobs would've done, he was the one who ripped out all the legacy ports and switched to USB-A, it's hard to imagine he'd not be more or less doing exactly what they're doing right now for the same reasons he did back then.


    It's always at this point someone then comes along bashing (e.g., Strange Days, Kevin Kee, Bestkeptsecret & Co.) me by saying, "Hey man.  It doesn't matter what YOU think because Apple is making money hand over fist doing it their own way.  They know better than you on all points."  To which I can only reply (and to Mike W.), "Oh yeah?"



    This is only part of my point. The remainder of my point is that they know you exist, and have chosen to not give you what you want, mostly to better service the company's larger market that isn't looking for what you are.

    That's the problem with communities surrounding a company. They have needs, but don't generally realize that despite the disproportionate loudness of the complaints about the issues that they face, they are at best an infinitesimally small portion of that company's larger customer base that generally has other needs and wants.

    I know what I want. I want a micro-ATX Mac with PCI-E slots, slotted RAM, and NVMe slotted storage without kludges or system modification. I've done that, and maintenance of it is a royal pain in the ass. However, I've been doing this job long enough both forward-facing and privately to know that I'm not going to get it from Apple, because of that larger market. I love you guys, but I don't understand why you don't see that too.

    Oh, and I read that story too. When six out of seven market watchdogs say that the PC market is contracting but Apple's contraction is less than that overall rate with one of the seven disagreeing like in yesterday's report, there's a conflict. We'll be talking about it more next week.
    Well stated.
    But I think you are mistaken that those who want a flexible machine and product line that meet their general purpose needs and that has a quality keyboard -- as opposed to a narrowly focused, minimalist, bare bones, disposable (aka 128Gb of non-upgradable storage) are not the minority.

    If your assertion was correct Lenovo would only offer their X1 Carbon instead of a half dozen addition types in their Thinkpad series alone!   They understand that one size does not fit all and they aren't expecting their customers to adapt their wants and needs to what they are willing to manufacture:
    X1 Carbon -- Ultra light
    T480. T480s & 580 -- "Port rich", high security, highly configurable business laptop
    P1, P52, P52S, P72 -- Mobile workstation with up to Xeon processors, 128Gb RAM, 6Tb storage
    L380, X380, X1 Yoga -- 2 in 1 business ultra book
    A275, A285, A485 -- Budget laptops
    E480, E570, E575, E580 -- Lower cost business class laptops
     L380, L480, L580 -- "Green" business class laptops
    11E and 11E Yoga -- Built smaller and rugged for the education environment

    While that may be at the extreme of offering too much choice, Apple is bouncing off the other extreme of offering too little choice.  While they may be doing well sales wise, I think they could do a LOT better by expanding their constricted product line.  The iPad with an external keyboard and cursor will be a very big step in that direction, but not enough.
    elijahg
  • Reply 89 of 120
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    GeorgeBMachenrybaywilliamlondon
  • Reply 90 of 120
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    edited November 2018 elijahg
  • Reply 91 of 120
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 92 of 120
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,035member
    GeorgeBMac said:
    Do not neglect to look at the 2017 MacBook Air -- it's a LOT cheaper (even if you upgrade to an i7), the SSD can be upgraded later, and it has (what most people believe to be) a better keyboard.

    Agreed. I actually purchased two of those 2017 edition MacBook AIRs with 256GB of SSD internal storage from B&H this summer for my children’s education.  I have no regrets. They have the SD card slot and MagSafe and the LED on the charging cable and the extension power cable in the box and the glowing Apple logo on back and the great keyboard too. 

     I made that purchase knowing Apple would come out with the new MacBook Air later in the year, the timing of which is ridiculous in light of the fact that most people buy the AIR for educational reasons but they need to buy before the school season begins!  But I’m still happy I made the purchase because I knew that when Apple did come out with the revised AIR that they would gut it of practical features in the same way they gutted the MacBook Pro in late 2016. 

    My kids love their 2017 MacBook Air’s and don’t mind the screen. They love the fact they can plug-in USB-A devices directly into the machine and don’t need any stupid dongles to do that. Dongle’s are stupid because you sometimes forget them or even lose them.  And if you are on the road and lose one, you cannot always easily go out and just buy one.  That’s precisely why having at least one legacy port like USB-A on these Macs is very important, even though people rightfully say that USB-C is a universal port that can become pretty much any port we need.  That fancy universal port is useless if you have a USB-A device and are on the road and have no silly dongle to allow you to plug it in! 

    My kids don’t use the SD card slot as much as I do, but it still does get used. Fancy that! 

    MagSafe is also a lifesaver to keep those pricey notebooks from flying off the table when my kids accidentally and daily kick the cord. 

    Students, even in junior high and high school,  type a lot on their notebooks these days and having a good keyboard with tactile feedback is a must. My daughter also has an iPad with an Apple keyboard that comes with it and she enjoys either one because both have a reasonable amount of tactile feedback. 

    People who criticize the display on the 2017 and earlier MacBook AIR are saying that only because they’ve grown accustomed to Retina displays. Before the Retina display, no one complained!  And since the primary buyer of the AIR has been the educational market, in large part because the AIR ultimately became a rather affordably priced notebook Macintosh, arguably a Retina display is not a must-have feature.  Would I like it and would my kids like it if it had a retina display? Of course! But we are not willing to give up all of the great features it has in exchange for that retina display. 

    At the end of the day, you need to choose what works for you. But some of us continue to think that older is sometimes better.  Keep in mind that when we talk about those “better features of old,” we do it from the heart, and we don’t care if some people come along and tell us we are “an insignificant part of the market that Apple doesn’t care about.“   We are “The Rest of Us“ that Apple’s advertising campaigns used to preach to.  We may get loud and obnoxious at times, but please treat us nicely. Give us kudos for our persistence and perseverance, even if you disagree.  And consider well that Apple’s numerous feedback pages exist not simply for “the majority“ but also for The Rest if Us who now are supposedly in that insignificant minority.   The existence of Apple’s feedback pages shows that Apple is admitting it is not omnipotent God in need of no suggestions or help, and the existence of those feedback pages proves that even minority voices matter.

    Those who think they can change the world of Apple, occasionally do. 

    THINK DIFFERENT.


    henrybayGeorgeBMacelijahg
  • Reply 93 of 120
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    As an owner of 2015 MBP, I like the new keyboards better. I don't like my current keyboard. What's your problem with that? Do I need your supppreeeeme approval to express my thoughts or to evaluate a product I own?

    Get a life...
    edited November 2018 elijahg
  • Reply 94 of 120
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    As an owner of 2015 MBP, I like the new keyboards better. I don't like my current keyboard. What's your problem with that? Do I need your supppreeeeme approval to express my thoughts or to evaluate a product I own?

    Get a life...
    Nope, but you're desperate to tell everyone their experience with the new keyboards is wrong and they're just "haters" because they don't like it. I can accept that you like it, that's fine, good. But don't try and tell everyone else that they should like it too otherwise they're idiots and wrong and Apple ❤❤❤. You're in the minority, get over it.

    Pretty sure you're the one who needs to get a life, you're just a pro-Apple troll, nearly as bad as the anti-Apple trolls.
    GeorgeBMacjdw
  • Reply 95 of 120
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,424administrator
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    We're not super-excited about it, no. We don't utterly hate it, though. We do feel the same that a previous commenter said, and we also suspect that Apple is readying the audience for a touchscreen keyboard in total at some point. We've published stories about patents that Apple has that suggests that this is coming.

    jdw
  • Reply 96 of 120
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    We're not super-excited about it, no. We don't utterly hate it, though. We do feel the same that a previous commenter said, and we also suspect that Apple is readying the audience for a touchscreen keyboard in total at some point. We've published stories about patents that Apple has that suggests that this is coming.

    That would work -- for the hunt & peck typists (which is likely a growing percentage of computer users).  But, my 6th grade grandson had to take a computer class at his school to learn touch typing.  I give them a lot of credit.  It will serve them well.   His dad for instance got a job doing web advertising -- but is struggling at it because he's slow -- partly because he can't touch type.  Peck, Peck, Peck...

    But, that all maybe fits with Apple's focus on media and content rather than traditional business uses.
    jdw
  • Reply 97 of 120
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    We're not super-excited about it, no. We don't utterly hate it, though. We do feel the same that a previous commenter said, and we also suspect that Apple is readying the audience for a touchscreen keyboard in total at some point. We've published stories about patents that Apple has that suggests that this is coming.

    That's fair enough, as I commented most reviewers aren't keen on the keyboard, but Macplusplus just replies with this "wrong no nope i love it so everyone else must love it if you don't you're a hater" rubbish. Gets tiring. 

    I'm not sure on the touchscreen keyboard on a Mac thing, it would vastly increase build cost and people don't like using touchscreens as keyboards for anything but Facebook, I'm sure you don't - or at least wouldn't choose to - write your articles on an iPad's screen! If Apple were to do this with no other option as they seem want to do these days, I'd have no choice but to switch.
    jdwGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 98 of 120
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,035member
    I spotted the following article in review of the Microsoft Surface Pro 6 this morning, which is the polar opposite of what Apple has done to it’s MacBooks, and equally as bad:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-surface-pro-6-review-2018-10

    In summary, Microsoft is shockingly narrow-minded for having included ONLY USB-A on the new Surface Pro, while Apple is equally narrow-minded for including ONLY USB-C.  Logic and practicality dictate a happy medium in a machine that includes BOTH, bridging the needs of 2018 with the expected needs of 2020.  

    I wouldn’t mind if almost all the ports were USB-C and there was only one USB-A port. So long as there’s one, it’s fine. The really sad part is, those great “bridge” notebooks with both ports are only in the Windows world, and many of us simply don’t do Windoze and won’t do Windoze, no matter how ill treated we are by Apple.

    And that, my fellow Mac lovers, is the heart of our passion and dismay.  

    I’m happy for you who perpetually love everything that comes out of Cupertino. I really am. But again, I appeal to your humanitarianism and lovingly sympathetic side toward those of us who have legitimate reasons for not joining you in lauding every MacBook design decision as “insanely great.”  Sometimes, The Rest if Us cannot help but feel certain decisions by Ive & Co. are just insane.
    elijahgGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 99 of 120
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    We're not super-excited about it, no. We don't utterly hate it, though. We do feel the same that a previous commenter said, and we also suspect that Apple is readying the audience for a touchscreen keyboard in total at some point. We've published stories about patents that Apple has that suggests that this is coming.

    That's fair enough, as I commented most reviewers aren't keen on the keyboard, but Macplusplus just replies with this "wrong no nope i love it so everyone else must love it if you don't you're a hater" rubbish. Gets tiring. 

    I'm not sure on the touchscreen keyboard on a Mac thing, it would vastly increase build cost and people don't like using touchscreens as keyboards for anything but Facebook, I'm sure you don't - or at least wouldn't choose to - write your articles on an iPad's screen! If Apple were to do this with no other option as they seem want to do these days, I'd have no choice but to switch.
    On the (very potential) migration to a touchscreen keyboard, Jobs' introduction of the original MacBook Air is instructive:   It is dominated and pervaded by respect.

    He shows an acknowledgment and respect for his competitors -- and then shows how he does even better.

    He also shows respect for his customer base when he acknowledges taking something away that they use and value (the optical drive):  He acknowledges its importance and then spends a great deal of time demonstrating and explaining multiple alternative ways and means of doing what they need to do.

    His entire presentation of the MBA is focused not on the marvelous technology but on how that marvelous technology will meet their needs and make their lives a little better.

    If Apple ever gets to implementing touch screen keyboards in their Mac line, it will be interesting to see if they take the same respectful approach -- or simply tell us how great it is...



    edited November 2018 elijahgjdw
  • Reply 100 of 120
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    henrybay said:
    The weird thing about the keyboard issue is:  While there are a ton that hate it, very few prefer it.  I really wonder why Apple has stuck by it and even doubled and tripled down on it.   I sadly have to wonder if it's an internal political issue -- where somebody with power is backing it.
    ...
    People also prefer a good quality physical keyboard - that is, one where the keys actually move up and down a reasonable distance when you press them. 
    The keys on the new keyboards just do that: move up and down. On previous keyboards so much sublimated by some people, all corners of a key pitch, yaw and roll almost independently until the key goes down  !!! I know because I use one right now on my 2015 MBP. I want a keyboard that I will not feel under my fingers, If the keyboard makes itself noticeable then there is something wrong with that design. This MBP keyboard I am using right know is supposed to be silent but it is not, it is clickety clack. That doesn't fit into Apple's design aesthetics and more importantly, the expected functionality.
    The entire point is people want feedback. You're obviously trolling yet again since Apple's new keyboards are considerably louder than the older 2015 ones.
    "As someone who types a a lot, I don't mind Apple's keyboard. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I actually likethem. They are quick, responsive (when not sticking), and the 3rd gen one is noticeably quieter than my late-2016 MacBook Pro that sound loud in comparison."

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/06/macbook-air-2018-review-apples-most-popular-mac-gets-an-impactful-upgrade

    ”This new keyboard features a silicone barrier which helps prevent debris from making its way under the keyboard. Because of the silicone, the keyboard has a different kind of feel to it, softer and less "clicky," which we personally prefer, but some may not like it.

    The previous MacBook Air featured the traditional chiclet-style keys, which we like, but to be honest, the new keyboard is definitely better.”

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/10/compared-2018-macbook-air-versus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air
    Yeah great job there you've found a really non-biased site to get your quotes from. Try looking outside the AI bubble. Despite this, AI isn't exactly raving about them. Quite a few AI reviews have commented on the keyboard, and have said they aren't keen. Also, it's still not a comparison with the 2015 MBP, which is what the discussion was about. Your subterfuge won't pass here, sorry.
    We're not super-excited about it, no. We don't utterly hate it, though. We do feel the same that a previous commenter said, and we also suspect that Apple is readying the audience for a touchscreen keyboard in total at some point. We've published stories about patents that Apple has that suggests that this is coming.

    That's fair enough, as I commented most reviewers aren't keen on the keyboard, but Macplusplus just replies with this "wrong no nope i love it so everyone else must love it if you don't you're a hater" rubbish. Gets tiring. 

    I'm not sure on the touchscreen keyboard on a Mac thing, it would vastly increase build cost and people don't like using touchscreens as keyboards for anything but Facebook, I'm sure you don't - or at least wouldn't choose to - write your articles on an iPad's screen! If Apple were to do this with no other option as they seem want to do these days, I'd have no choice but to switch.
    On the (very potential) migration to a touchscreen keyboard, Jobs' introduction of the original MacBook Air is instructive:   It is dominated and pervaded by respect.

    He shows an acknowledgment and respect for his competitors -- and then shows how he does even better.

    He also shows respect for his customer base when he acknowledges taking something away that they use and value (the optical drive):  He acknowledges its importance and then spends a great deal of time demonstrating and explaining multiple alternative ways and means of doing what they need to do.

    His entire presentation of the MBA is focused not on the marvelous technology but on how that marvelous technology will meet their needs and make their lives a little better.

    If Apple ever gets to implementing touch screen keyboards in their Mac line, it will be interesting to see if they take the same respectful approach -- or simply tell us how great it is...



    Absolutely, he didn't just change things for the sake of it, it really was progression. He knew the change would alienate the few people who did still use the <insert old tech here>, but the progress was worth it versus keeping ageing tech. As you say, he explains why it's better, he respects that a minority of people wouldn't be happy about it, and reassures that there are Apple alternatives with all the ports and an optical drive. There was a genuine sense of progress with the devices then; the Air was incredibly thin, literally half the thickness of previous MacBooks and unlike anything else when it was released. It was a huge step ahead in portability, and had competitors scrambling. The removal of functionality in the name of progress and improvement is a very "Apple" thing to do, and Jobs was able to strike just the right balance.

    Unfortunately Cook's Apple removes or changes functionality seemingly for the sake of it, or to shave a few more millimetres from an already thin device; compromising ports, cooling and battery life for some silly "but its another 0.5mm thinner" statistic. Who has ever complained that the MacBooks are too thick? Unlike Jobs, Cook seems unable to find the balance between removal of functionality and the usefulness of the machine, compromising on the machine's function too much for too many people; resulting in complaints and dissatisfaction even from loyal Apple fans as we witness here on AI. He seems to think he can convince people that the newer devices are real progress as Jobs could - but interjecting "magical", "incredible" and "stunning" as often as possible convinces no one and just makes me cringe. Unlike Jobs, he can't sell the devices on the merits of what customers can use them for, as each step "forward" now results in customers being able to actually do less than before. He really does not understand his market.
    GeorgeBMacjdw
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