Trade-in promotions are not discounts. They offer you less than grey market value. Brightstar will pay Apple and then re-sell the phones into the grey market at a profit. Apple is not losing here. Leveraging the grey market is smart.
Carriers use trade in partners all the time to help get customers into new devices.
Wow DED is really panicked about Apple. Way too many defensive articles the past week or so.
I've never seen anyone on AI so full of shit and on a personal vendetta against one of the writers here, seemingly because he uses reason to knock down all the false narratives of haters, pundits, and trolls -- including the pearl-clutching concern trolls.
Wow DED is really panicked about Apple. Way too many defensive articles the past week or so.
Anyway can he point us to a previous example where Apple did this on their front page? I certainly don’t remember them pushing trade-ins like this last year. And putting a price right on the front page. They clearly want people to see that $449 price.
Why would Apple be doing any of this if the XR was meeting their sales expectations?
You know it is possible some consumers find these phones too expensive and are holding on to what they have (which are still really good phones).
So you're saying Apple has never before promoted features or the price of its iPhones on its website? How incredibly brave to stake your reputation on that.
And as for trade-ins, Apple was promoting that last year when Bloomberg and commenters like you were insisting that there was no possible mechanism that could enable anyone on earth to afford a $999 iPhone X.
And that iPhone 4S promo promotes...specs! 8MP camera. Thanks for the actual evidence that this is nothing new, and for so owning Roigifan, and her continued pathetic concern trolling.
LOL, Rogifan_new. Because Bloomberg is such a reliable source, right? Have they provided any proof yet to back up their breathless China spyware story?
Where did I mention Bloomberg?
This entire article is about Bloomerberg, dur dur.
The original copy might have sucked but it was very Apple.
I think we're seeing two problems here.
The first is idiotic comments like this, implying that stuff that sucks shouldn't change because that's the way it's always been done, when change and adapting is what Apple is always about. The problem here is that folk here are so just so obsessed with "the way things were" that they fail to see that the world has changed around them.
Case in point: this obsession with the offer being on the front page. Since Apple has integrated the Apple site with the Apple store, then this is pretty much where I expect them to put it. What's the point of putting it on the shop page when there isn't one? No one is going to go to the site and type 'redeem' in the search box. Folk are much more likely is that folk will see the offer and then explore further.
Likewise, folk screaming at the wording as though it's somehow proof that Apple is about to implode. Well, they've got two phones on the front page and there's not a lot between them. A pithy one-liner isn't going to cover it, especially if you want people to make a decision within the space of half a page.
As I've always said, if rogifan was in charge of Apple then the whole shooting match would have disappeared down the toilet long long ago.
While searching desperately for the bad news, the usual suspects have forgotten to ask some rather pertinent questions.
The first one I'd ask is this: If Apple's flagship phone is too expensive for everyone to buy, then why are they focussing their redeeming effort on the XR? Why not highlight a trade-in on the flagship line as well? I mean, according to folk round here, Apple surely has an asteroid warehouse packed to the rafters with unsold premium phones.
Looks like a concerted effort to kick the stock while it’s down in order to depress it as much as possible, buy at an artificially created low point, and enjoy the profits after the results for the lucrative holiday season are released.
Yeah I tried to buy AAPL this morning but some dead president put a halt to that.
Although I think Bloomberg is a hack publication like most are these days I also believe that Apple is doing everything it can to spin it's financials to look as profitable as possible. Remember Cook is a financial guy, not an inventor like Jobs' was. His job is to always present Apple in the most favorable light with regards to financial health. And don't forgot all those leaches at the stock market that believe everything Bloomberg and other's right and then panic like little school girls and dump 100s of millions of shares. Plenty of blame to go around.
Looks like a concerted effort to kick the stock while it’s down in order to depress it as much as possible, buy at an artificially created low point, and enjoy the profits after the results for the lucrative holiday season are released.
Could be. But without any proof of money changing hands it is speculation only.
What did you expect from bloomberg news it is simply media bias aka also called fake news
Bloomberg is a highly respected international news organization and is supported mainly by subscribers to it's data/terminal services. Last I checked the terminal was about $25k per seat.
Mr Gurman has been quite accurate on Apple and for some time now. Of course anything that opposes the Apple as infallible drives the fanbois crazy and some of the fanbois write copy for websites.
If anything Mr Gurman has reported is inaccurate and harmful to Apple, they are free to sue. Mr Gurman can be contacted by Bloomberg Terminal users directly via that device and he also has a Twitter account where you can question his reporting. https://twitter.com/markgurman
Wow DED is really panicked about Apple. Way too many defensive articles the past week or so.
Anyway can he point us to a previous example where Apple did this on their front page? I certainly don’t remember them pushing trade-ins like this last year. And putting a price right on the front page. They clearly want people to see that $449 price. Also why the change to the marketing copy. And copy that seems more like something an Android OEM would focus on i.e. specs Why would Apple be doing any of this if the XR was meeting their sales expectations?
You know it is possible some consumers find these phones too expensive and are holding on to what they have (which are still really good phones).
Because "Brilliant. In every way." is so generic that it has no meaning and does not sell benefits. Longest battery life, a bigger screen, fastest performance and studio quality photos are not specs, they're benefits. Marketing 101 says you sell benefits. Benefits that solve problems. What's my problem? "Well...my smartphone photos aren't as good yet as my DSLR photos. My battery dies when I'm out all day and I don't have a place to recharge it. I get annoyed when apps don't load fast or it's not perfectly responsive. I want a larger screen, but I don't want a larger phone." So in the new copy, Apple is telling a potential purchaser how they solve their problems. In the old copy, Apple is telling the user how smart Apple is or how smart the phone is, but doesn't give them a hint as to how they're going to help them. See the difference?
Back in the day, Apple could sell products just because it was Apple. But the competition has largely caught up and in some cases have exceeded what Apple has done. Now I still wouldn't buy an Android phone, but that's mostly due to security issues and mistrust of Google. So today, IMO, Apple needs to sell benefits. Especially since the iPhone is no longer an esoteric product as Apple produced 217 million of them last fiscal year.
And let's say it's accurate that Apple "never did this before." So what? Apple gets punished now for incentivizing people to buy a new phone by being a little more generous on a trade-in? And while I don't know Apple's particular economics on this, in general, used merchandise has higher margins than new merchandise. The tech is getting mature and because the phone companies aren't really subsidizing phones anymore, people are waiting longer to purchase new phones. (Anecdotal, but I'm still using my iPhone 6 - I had Apple install a new battery and clean the port for $29 and it's working great [except that the mute switch no longer works]. But if I was using my smartphone as my primary camera and if the battery kept dying, I'd buy a new phone. By the next releases next Fall, I probably will. )
Although I think Bloomberg is a hack publication like most are these days I also believe that Apple is doing everything it can to spin it's financials to look as profitable as possible. Remember Cook is a financial guy, not an inventor like Jobs' was. His job is to always present Apple in the most favorable light with regards to financial health. And don't forgot all those leaches at the stock market that believe everything Bloomberg and other's right and then panic like little school girls and dump 100s of millions of shares. Plenty of blame to go around.
There is no "spinning" being done, nor any necessary. Apple's financials are rock solid. It's their stock that is volatile, not their financials. "To look as profitable as possible"? Apple makes virtually all the profit in the entire industry. And in watches, and much of the profit of the PC industry (especially if iPads are included).
Apple has long revealed much more detail, much more transparently than other tech companies. And Apple's guidance figures have been so, so accurate year in, year out.
The stock gets manipulated whatever Apple does, so they have stopped reporting actual unit numbers (like everyone else, who have never reported unit numbers).Let's have some (any) unit numbers from Samsung, Amazon, Google and Microsoft.
You can learn more about the strength of Apple's financials on Asymco, where Horace Dediu provides great analysis over a number of years: http://asymco.com
Wow DED is really panicked about Apple. Way too many defensive articles the past week or so.
I've never seen anyone on AI so full of shit and on a personal vendetta against one of the writers here, seemingly because he uses reason to knock down all the false narratives of haters, pundits, and trolls -- including the pearl-clutching concern trolls.
I was about to say something along the same lines, but you beat me to it
I think Rogifan is fighting for a Christmas Bonus from his employer, which states the more he attacks fact and truth coming from pro-Apple sites to discredit mainstream media outlets like Bloomcrap, the more he'll get for Christmas.
Ok - Apple is not releasing sales numbers, so the only way to have any idea of sales is by extrapolating from other data and otherwise reading between the lines. Then Apple says they are going to be focusing on ‘user base’ rather than sales numbers.
Add to that several rumors from various sources questioning iphone sales numbers.
Add to that some promotions for new iPhone models that we haven’t seen before.
Everyone here has a justifiable beef with Bloomberg’s questionable report on hardware security, but even if you ignore the Bloomberg report, there’s ample reason to suspect that maybe sales are off a bit.
What I am puzzled by is why everyone is so worked up about it? Are people just mad because their stock has gone down? It’s as if people take it as a personal affront any time there’s a report about Apple that isn’t absolutely glowing. Personally, if they’re offering a price break or better trade in deal, I’m happy - I can get a new iPhone for cheaper.
Ok lets look at this pragmatically rather than a FUD perspective.
Anyone, even before Apple offered this deal or without involving Apple, could/can have the same or less net cost for an XR. There is no desperate promo going on here.
I looked at eBay for iPhone 7 plus 128 selling prices... they are between 300 to 450$
I even followed 3 auctions closing... ranged from 360, 375, 395 ! Given the above observation Anyone wanting an iPhone XR could sell their 7 plus 128 iPhone on eBay for 300 to 450! Lets go Conservative based on my observed closing prices and say 350$ average. That’s lower than my observed.
XR prices at Apple site:
Sim free unlocked: XR 64 GIG 674$
XR128 GIG 719$
Carrier version: XR 64 GIG 749$ XR 128 GIG. 799$
Now lets forget Apple Apples so called Panic Promo.. ( which it is not, Apple has had trade in program for years now).... and look at some elementary level math...Subtraction.
eBay average iPhone 7 plus 128 price average 350$ (conservative )
The Net out of pocket cost for iPhone XR for a consumer who plans to go from iPhone 7 plus128 to XR:
Carrier version: XR 64 GIG 749$ -350= 399 $. 50$’’’’’’’’
XR 128 GIG 799$- 350= 449 $ 0 - Same as Apple deal.
(Mind you, i went on a very conservative low end of 7plus selling price ..realistically the net cost will be lower and a consumer will have even better deal than above )
Where is Apples desperation in this picture??
They are not offering anything over and above what the going market value is.. no extra discounts.. etc. They are just trying to get the trades if anything. And offering a worse deal than one can get otherwise. They have always offered trade-in prices at lower than market prices.
Anyone could have had and can have as good or a better deal at any point without involving Apple.
Its just that Apple put the promo on their first page.....And the bashers are running with it mindlessly....throwing FUD around.
There is no story here..
Just Fud and hit pieces...Bloombug and alike are pushing negative crap out there.. as they have for quite a while.
Looks like a concerted effort to kick the stock while it’s down in order to depress it as much as possible, buy at an artificially created low point, and enjoy the profits after the results for the lucrative holiday season are released.
Yeah I tried to buy AAPL this morning but some dead president put a halt to that.
Comments
Carriers use trade in partners all the time to help get customers into new devices.
And that iPhone 4S promo promotes...specs! 8MP camera. Thanks for the actual evidence that this is nothing new, and for so owning Roigifan, and her continued pathetic concern trolling.
This entire article is about Bloomerberg, dur dur.
I think we're seeing two problems here.
The first is idiotic comments like this, implying that stuff that sucks shouldn't change because that's the way it's always been done, when change and adapting is what Apple is always about. The problem here is that folk here are so just so obsessed with "the way things were" that they fail to see that the world has changed around them.
Case in point: this obsession with the offer being on the front page. Since Apple has integrated the Apple site with the Apple store, then this is pretty much where I expect them to put it. What's the point of putting it on the shop page when there isn't one? No one is going to go to the site and type 'redeem' in the search box. Folk are much more likely is that folk will see the offer and then explore further.
Likewise, folk screaming at the wording as though it's somehow proof that Apple is about to implode. Well, they've got two phones on the front page and there's not a lot between them. A pithy one-liner isn't going to cover it, especially if you want people to make a decision within the space of half a page.
As I've always said, if rogifan was in charge of Apple then the whole shooting match would have disappeared down the toilet long long ago.
While searching desperately for the bad news, the usual suspects have forgotten to ask some rather pertinent questions.
The first one I'd ask is this: If Apple's flagship phone is too expensive for everyone to buy, then why are they focussing their redeeming effort on the XR? Why not highlight a trade-in on the flagship line as well? I mean, according to folk round here, Apple surely has an asteroid warehouse packed to the rafters with unsold premium phones.
Mr Gurman has been quite accurate on Apple and for some time now. Of course anything that opposes the Apple as infallible drives the fanbois crazy and some of the fanbois write copy for websites.
If anything Mr Gurman has reported is inaccurate and harmful to Apple, they are free to sue. Mr Gurman can be contacted by Bloomberg Terminal users directly via that device and he also has a Twitter account where you can question his reporting. https://twitter.com/markgurman
Back in the day, Apple could sell products just because it was Apple. But the competition has largely caught up and in some cases have exceeded what Apple has done. Now I still wouldn't buy an Android phone, but that's mostly due to security issues and mistrust of Google. So today, IMO, Apple needs to sell benefits. Especially since the iPhone is no longer an esoteric product as Apple produced 217 million of them last fiscal year.
And let's say it's accurate that Apple "never did this before." So what? Apple gets punished now for incentivizing people to buy a new phone by being a little more generous on a trade-in? And while I don't know Apple's particular economics on this, in general, used merchandise has higher margins than new merchandise. The tech is getting mature and because the phone companies aren't really subsidizing phones anymore, people are waiting longer to purchase new phones. (Anecdotal, but I'm still using my iPhone 6 - I had Apple install a new battery and clean the port for $29 and it's working great [except that the mute switch no longer works]. But if I was using my smartphone as my primary camera and if the battery kept dying, I'd buy a new phone. By the next releases next Fall, I probably will. )
Apple has long revealed much more detail, much more transparently than other tech companies. And Apple's guidance figures have been so, so accurate year in, year out.
The stock gets manipulated whatever Apple does, so they have stopped reporting actual unit numbers (like everyone else, who have never reported unit numbers). Let's have some (any) unit numbers from Samsung, Amazon, Google and Microsoft.
You can learn more about the strength of Apple's financials on Asymco, where Horace Dediu provides great analysis over a number of years: http://asymco.com
I think Rogifan is fighting for a Christmas Bonus from his employer, which states the more he attacks fact and truth coming from pro-Apple sites to discredit mainstream media outlets like Bloomcrap, the more he'll get for Christmas.
Add to that several rumors from various sources questioning iphone sales numbers.
Add to that some promotions for new iPhone models that we haven’t seen before.
Everyone here has a justifiable beef with Bloomberg’s questionable report on hardware security, but even if you ignore the Bloomberg report, there’s ample reason to suspect that maybe sales are off a bit.
What I am puzzled by is why everyone is so worked up about it? Are people just mad because their stock has gone down? It’s as if people take it as a personal affront any time there’s a report about Apple that isn’t absolutely glowing. Personally, if they’re offering a price break or better trade in deal, I’m happy - I can get a new iPhone for cheaper.
Anyone, even before Apple offered this deal or without involving Apple, could/can have the same or less net cost for an XR. There is no desperate promo going on here.
I looked at eBay for iPhone 7 plus 128 selling prices... they are between 300 to 450$ I even followed 3 auctions closing... ranged from 360, 375, 395 !
Given the above observation Anyone wanting an iPhone XR could sell their 7 plus 128 iPhone on eBay for 300 to 450!
Lets go Conservative based on my observed closing prices and say 350$ average. That’s lower than my observed.
XR prices at Apple site:
Sim free unlocked:
XR 64 GIG 674$
XR128 GIG 719$
Carrier version:
XR 64 GIG 749$
XR 128 GIG. 799$
Now lets forget Apple Apples so called Panic Promo.. ( which it is not, Apple has had trade in program for years now).... and look at some elementary level math...Subtraction.
eBay average iPhone 7 plus 128 price average 350$ (conservative )
The Net out of pocket cost for iPhone XR for a consumer who plans to go from iPhone 7 plus128 to XR:
Sim free:
XR 64 GIG 674$ - 350$= 324 $. 125$ better than apple
XR 128 GIG 719$ - 350$= 369 $. 80$ ‘’’’’’’
Carrier version:
XR 64 GIG 749$ -350= 399 $. 50$’’’’’’’’
XR 128 GIG 799$- 350= 449 $ 0 - Same as Apple deal.
(Mind you, i went on a very conservative low end of 7plus selling price ..realistically the net cost will be lower and a consumer will have even better deal than above )
Where is Apples desperation in this picture??
They are not offering anything over and above what the going market value is.. no extra discounts.. etc.
They are just trying to get the trades if anything. And offering a worse deal than one can get otherwise. They have always offered trade-in prices at lower than market prices.
Anyone could have had and can have as good or a better deal at any point without involving Apple. Its just that Apple put the promo on their first page.....And the bashers are running with it mindlessly....throwing FUD around.
There is no story here.. Just Fud and hit pieces...Bloombug and alike are pushing negative crap out there.. as they have for quite a while.