Apple iPhone XS awarded smartphone camera of the year, Google Pixel 3 runner-up

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  • Reply 81 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,960member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    People buy Go Pro with 4K precisely as a big selling point. People do not do the same with smartphones. Ask your friends and colleagues for their use cases.
    LOL...so, now, ONLY smartphone people don't use 4k...got it.  What a fool.
    No. 4K is not a selling point for smartphones. It is a feature of many. This is backed up by use and compounded by the fact that even the newest iPhones still default to 1080p. I have never met anyone who actually made a point of even mentioning 4K and video. Now ask your friends and colleagues. How many use 4K video more than the camera?

    On the other hand 4K IS a selling point for Go Pro and televisions.
    You are so full of shit with your anecdotes. It's like you strive to live in the dark ages.

    People shoot 4K 24P on the iPhone XS so that they can record in High Dynamic Range. Why would someone want to shoot in 1080P and give up dynamic range? You can post process to 1080P and get the best of both world's.  Almost certainly a driver for increased storage purchased by iPhone X buyers. Please note that Apple has the acknowledged lead in Color Management in Smartphones, which makes video production superior to anything available for Android OS.

    More to the point, it's possible to increase iPhone XS IQ merely by using third party applications, like Halide, that support RAW. Of course, you don't want anyone to be aware of this because "it's not standard".

    People interested in photography on smartphones have the option of  applications that can give them better IQ. These same people also have readily available options for add on lenses.


    I post the following link so that you can educate yourself on the value of Apple iPhones  in the used market, and the effect they have of increasing ASP in new sales;

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/10/22/the-gray-markets-impact-on-iphone-pricing
    How many people spend even a short amount of time shooting video on phones?

    How many iPhone users even bother to flip the switch to 4K. The default is 1080p. That says it all really.

    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    How to change video settings;

    https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/13/iphone-how-to-shoot-4k-video/

    iPhone: How to customize camera settings to shoot 4K video

    1. Open Settings
    2. Swipe down and tap Camera
    3. Tap Record Video
    4. Select 4K at 24 fps, 30 fps, or 60 fps
    It's likely that Apple defaults to 1080P due to the storage requirements of 4K 24P, 30P, and 60P

    Hence why Apple is so successful selling 256GB and 512GB upgrades.

    ASP matters to corporations selling products, excepting Chinese smartphone  companies. evidently.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 82 of 141
    @tmay ... no that's not it.

    I think perhaps we're the only two that have actually used both phones?
    I mean with all respect - you haven't even seen one in real life?

    So we have a bunch of unknowledgable iPhone fans that don't know anything about the competition, trying their hardest to argue a point which has already been proven over and over again. 
    gatorguy
  • Reply 83 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,960member
    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay ... no that's not it.

    I think perhaps we're the only two that have actually used both phones?
    I mean with all respect - you haven't even seen one in real life?

    So we have a bunch of unknowledgable iPhone fans that don't know anything about the competition, trying their hardest to argue a point which has already been proven over and over again. 
    Here you are, arguing a point that was made by DPReview, that the iPhone XS had the best overall camera of all smartphones, even exceeding the Huawei Mate 20.

    How fucked up do you have to be to not understand that your concerns of fairness should be directed at DPReview, not at AI posters?

    I don't need to have any understanding of Huawei, because I am not going to even be either a Huawei user, nor an Android OS user. I have read plenty on their technology, benchmarks, and enough reviews done here in the U.S. of the P20 Pro and Mate Pro, to have absolutely zero interest. 

    If it was ever only about hardware, you might even have a valid standing, but it isn't. Apple has an extensive ecosystem that Huawei will need years to create for itself, starting with its own OS, and Apple has an extensive network of retail stores where I can easily find products and services that Huawei cannot provide. Apple has years of constantly great service and products that drive the loyalty of its customers.

    Why is it even necessary that I consider a smartphone from a Chinese Company?

    Truth is, you and Avon B7 appear very insecure about your choice of smartphone, hence why you are here trolling.

    The truth about Avon B7 is that he has a menagerie of old Apple equipment, including an iPad Mini that would benefit from an upgrade to iOS 12, which he won't do, and his wife with an iPhone 6 that would also benefit from an upgrade to iOS 12. He uses either an Honor 10 or a Mate 10.

    I have never read anything to the effect that Avon B7 has ever used. at all, an iPhone X of any model. All else being equal, it appears only you have used an iPhone X and a Huawei Mate 20 Pro or P20 Pro.

    I do not consider that I have to use every product in the world to be well versed, all because of the breadth of reviewers and reviews that are available.
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 84 of 141
    Nah - it really does seem that you have no idea about phones in general ... :/

    It's not a bad thing though. We each have our own fields ... and technology - well - maybe isn't for you ? 

  • Reply 85 of 141
    @tmay I don't think anyone is insecure ... I've had plenty of phones in the last few years.

    The biggest two criteria for me? Camera quality and battery.

    The iPhone cannot deliver on either and hasn't been able to for the last few generations. Maybe if they ever succeed in those two, I'll give it more thought about using long term. But right now 2nd place doesn't cut it for me when I'm spending that much on a phone.
  • Reply 86 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,960member
    Seth2015 said:
    Nah - it really does seem that you have no idea about phones in general ... :/

    It's not a bad thing though. We each have our own fields ... and technology - well - maybe isn't for you ? 

    I'm an engineer, you conceited dipshit, but my business isn't fucking with phones for a living.

    BTW, I have a Nikon D500 and a recently purchased a 200-500 Nikkor for it; why would I be up in arms about a small advantage in still images that the Huawei Mate 20 might provide over the iPhone XS, even given a skilled user? 
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 141
    That's great man - I have a Canon 5D MK3 and a 70-200mm 2.8 ... unsure why it means anything though ? 

    And yes, I can definitely see that fucking around with phones isn't what you do ;) 

  • Reply 88 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,960member
    Seth2015 said:
    That's great man - I have a Canon 5D MK3 and a 70-200mm 2.8 ... unsure why it means anything though ? 

    And yes, I can definitely see that fucking around with phones isn't what you do ;) 

    I spend my time In Inventor HSM and on machine tools, making shit for people, so no, i don't have a great need for a new iPhone beyond my current iPhone 7 Plus. But good for you that the Huawei meets your two prime criteria.

    DSLR's/MILC's are options for us, if we need better IQ than a smartphone can provide.
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 89 of 141
    Seth2015 said:
    @tmay ... no that's not it.

    I think perhaps we're the only two that have actually used both phones?
    I mean with all respect - you haven't even seen one in real life?

    So we have a bunch of unknowledgable iPhone fans that don't know anything about the competition, trying their hardest to argue a point which has already been proven over and over again. 
    It's kinda funny...you calling someone else ignorant...when you have been schooled in pretty much everything.  Still think Geekbench is not cross-platform?  LOL  You're clueless dude.

    Who the hell has 70-200 2.8 and not have 24-70 2.8?  That's like having a Huawei phone and thinking that it is da bomb with video also.  LOL

    What else is there?  iPhone XS has the BEST camera system on the planet, bar none.  The best.  #1.  Winner.  Best damn camera for pics and video.  Everyone else below it.  No one is same or better.  

    Everything else you write is just pure crap and/or full of ignorance.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 90 of 141
    @Madtiger I've stopped arguing with you since I realised your age and that you're a bit slow . I've kinda made a pledge with myself to not mock or insult or anything to someone in your position.

    It's just an integrity thing 
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 91 of 141
    Seth2015 said:
    @Madtiger I've stopped arguing with you since I realised your age and that you're a bit slow . I've kinda made a pledge with myself to not mock or insult or anything to someone in your position.

    It's just an integrity thing 
    LOL...sorry, i just call out ignorance when i see it.  I cannot even think of ONE statement that you made that is true...not one.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 92 of 141
    @Madtiger ;

    Sigh. There have been so many true statements ... but you ignore them :/ I think you've been conditioned to think that you are the elite with a premium handset, and your brain isn't sure how to process when you're show any differently?

    Now, you're slow - so I'm going to focus on one point : the battery.
    I'm going to use the Huawei Mate 20 Pro as an example - but any 2018 Android flagship will be the same
    There are points that you can't deny or can't argue - but I'm sure you'll try.

    • The battery has a smaller capacity (iPhone XS is 2,659mAh vs M20P at 4,200mAh). That's just under 60% larger
    • This equates to around a real world 50% longer charge (iPhones are typically 10hrs and Huaweis 14hrs+)
    • The 40w wired charging is much, much faster (it'll do a full iPhone charge in 20 minutes)
    • The wireless charging of the Huawei is 100% faster than an iPhone (7.5w vs 15w)

    Let's focus on those 4 points and just say yes / no or true / false next to each ? 
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 93 of 141
    Seth2015 said:
    @Madtiger ;

    Sigh. There have been so many true statements ... but you ignore them :/ I think you've been conditioned to think that you are the elite with a premium handset, and your brain isn't sure how to process when you're show any differently?

    Now, you're slow - so I'm going to focus on one point : the battery.
    I'm going to use the Huawei Mate 20 Pro as an example - but any 2018 Android flagship will be the same
    There are points that you can't deny or can't argue - but I'm sure you'll try.

    • The battery has a smaller capacity (iPhone XS is 2,659mAh vs M20P at 4,200mAh). That's just under 60% larger
    • This equates to around a real world 50% longer charge (iPhones are typically 10hrs and Huaweis 14hrs+)
    • The 40w wired charging is much, much faster (it'll do a full iPhone charge in 20 minutes)
    • The wireless charging of the Huawei is 100% faster than an iPhone (7.5w vs 15w)

    Let's focus on those 4 points and just say yes / no or true / false next to each ? 
    Battery?  Mate 20?  You’re not a smart guy, are you?  You’re just made a damn fool of yourself there!!  LOL. You did it all by yourself there kid.  

    What was this thread about again?

    Oh yeah, iPhone XS has the #1 camera system in the world, bar none!  It beat out Pixel 3 and Huawei flagships.  Well, it beat out Huawei quite easily because Huawei was at best 3rd or below.

    #1 CAMERA SYSTEM.  WINNER.  BEST DAMN CAMERA ON THE PLANET.  BAR NONE.  

    That’s gotta hurt!  LOL. Thanks for the laugh!
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 94 of 141
    Let's so resolution ... now here, your answer is going to be the same as a general iPhone user - but some facts you cannot deny : 

    iPhone X - 458ppi
    iPhone XS - 458ppi
    iPhone XS Max - 458ppi
    iPhone XR - 326ppi
    iPhone 4 - 330ppi

    Huawei Mate 20 Pro - 538ppi
    Samsung S9 - 570ppi
    Samsung Note 9 - 516ppi
    Pixel 3 - 443ppi
    Pixel 3XL - 523i

    Here's a strange one. If you mention how low the XR actually is (even the 'ol iPhone 4 is higher), the iPhone users jump to 'you can't see higher and it's extra resources and Apple made right call!'. But - it's kinda weird that chose fairly decent resolutions on the iPhone X etc. Anyhow - put aside thesubjective and look at pure resolution (higher number, madtiger).
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 95 of 141
    @madtiger - you said :smile: 

    'You haven't give ONE fact'

    Here are facts ... yes / no answers ... you still can't see them? 
    Are you just going to put your head in the sand again?

    Maybe you're not just slow, but there's some other issue with you :/
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 96 of 141
    Seth2015 said:
    Let's so resolution ... now here, your answer is going to be the same as a general iPhone user - but some facts you cannot deny : 

    iPhone X - 458ppi
    iPhone XS - 458ppi
    iPhone XS Max - 458ppi
    iPhone XR - 326ppi
    iPhone 4 - 330ppi

    Huawei Mate 20 Pro - 538ppi
    Samsung S9 - 570ppi
    Samsung Note 9 - 516ppi
    Pixel 3 - 443ppi
    Pixel 3XL - 523i

    Here's a strange one. If you mention how low the XR actually is (even the 'ol iPhone 4 is higher), the iPhone users jump to 'you can't see higher and it's extra resources and Apple made right call!'. But - it's kinda weird that chose fairly decent resolutions on the iPhone X etc. Anyhow - put aside thesubjective and look at pure resolution (higher number, madtiger).
    XS has best display...just ask XDA.

    Still butthurt that XS has the best damn camera system, bar none??  Sorry, that is fact.

    Youre just a damn fool...keep it up kid. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 97 of 141
    Why do you keep quoting text - yet never actually replying? 
  • Reply 98 of 141
    I'll make it easier for you ... (pssssst - I've even highlighted the bigger number!)

    iPhone XS is 2,659mAh vs M20P at 4,200mAh
    iPhone XS wireless 7.5k vs M20P at 15w
    iPhone XS resolution 458ppi vs M20P 538ppi
    iPhone XS slow mo 240fps vs M20p 960fps

    I need to be honest - I thought the caliber of iPhone users was far, far higher. I've literally dumbed as best I could and I'm pretty sure you'll quote it (again) with zero answers (again) and tell me how the Apple has the best everything (again)


  • Reply 99 of 141
    Seth2015 said:
    Why do you keep quoting text - yet never actually replying? 
    Because it is fact that XS has THE best damn camera system, bar none.

    Your terrorist-supporting benchmark-cheating Huawei is ranked somewhere way below it. OUCH.  That gotta hurt!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 100 of 141
    Are you usually this stupid ? :/
    Or are you some sort of an iBot?
    edited December 2018
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