Ming-Chi Kuo says iPhone XR demand is weak, cuts sales estimates for Q1 2019

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 78
    MCK has good tips on upcoming techs but he has a dismal track record of trying to predict Apple earnings. In fact, I would just listen to what ever he says about earnings and more often than not, the exact opposite will tend to be true. Heck, I would probably sell my AAPL shares if he were to come out with a positive impression of iPhone sales as I would be more worried about Apple missing targets. Foxconn and TSMC beat earnings earlier this week and MCK warns ... a sure sign that AAPL will have another great quarter.
  • Reply 62 of 78
    jungmark said:
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    It’s a price increase but would you rather pay more for a superior product or pay the same for a phone with more compromises. The latter may work with ice cream (1.5 quarts instead of 2) and OJ (59 oz instead of 64), but it doesn't work right with the iPhone. 
    So the iPhone 4 wasn’t superior to the 3GS? Or the 5 superior to the 4S? Every year Apple would give us a new and better iPhone without a price increase (or only a minimal one). Then once Apple had played most of its growth cards (bigger screens, China etc.) and sales started to flatline the company chose to design products with higher price points so if they couldn’t show unit sales growth at least they’d be showing revenue and ASP growth. Is the X $350 better than the 7? Maybe Apple’s gross margins say yes but it could  be this year some consumers are saying no. Again the reason I say that is because never before has Apple made trade-ins front and center on their website. They clearly want people to see $449 next to iPhone XR and $699 next to iPhone XS.
  • Reply 63 of 78
    A rerelease of a note from the analyst a month ago released as new information.  Sounds  like authentic Reuter’s News.  Let’s rerelease and tie up to other negative rumors based on fluff.

  • Reply 64 of 78
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    @clarker99 and you are both right.  Gross margins haven't gone up (for the most part) in a few year & prices have gone up on the premium end.  That tells me that the cost of doing business has gone up.  The same thing has happened on the premium end of the Android smartphone segment. A lot of that is a result of the economic and political environment. If Apple maintained premium prices based on the numbers you've given, they would take a serious hit to their gross margins. Having said that, depending on how sales go over the next year, that may be a strategy that they're willing to explore.
    edited December 2018 brisance
  • Reply 65 of 78
    Ya' know...

    You can buy iPhones using Apple's iPhone Upgrade Program or a Carrier Upgrade Program -- that:

    1. requires an upgrade fee of ~$30 to the Carrier
    2. divides the Price into 24 equal payments
    3. allows upgrade after 12 payments

    If you upgrade annually, you will pay the one-time upgrade fee and see a small incremental change (less than 4%) in the monthly payment...  This is relatively painless to most people and you get the latest-greatest iPhone every year without the price shock.

    Apple's IUP includes an interest-free loan and AppleCare+ with Theft And Loss.

    The biggest downside to the Apple IUP is that it requires a better credit-rating than the Carrier plans.

    Apple could make the IUP more available/attractive if they could arrange a lower credit-rating requirement.
    brisance
  • Reply 66 of 78
    What Apple is doing of late, is brushing aside small minorities of their customers, and those slowly add up. I suspect that's what happened here with the Xr. A small group of people do not want larger, heavier iPhones, another small group do not want to pay the $50 increase over the already higher iPhone 8 price, a small group do care about 1080 resolution of the screen, even if average Joe doesn't, a small group wants small phones like the SE, and maybe also want to charge while listening to wired phones, via the audio jack, and maybe a small percentage like to use 3D Touch, while yet another small group just bite the bullet and pony up the difference for an Xs. Add them all up, and I could see how demand for the Xr could be lower. I don't think the Xr is positioned well. 
  • Reply 67 of 78
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    @clarker99 and you are both right.  Gross margins haven't gone up (for the most part) in a few year & prices have gone up on the premium end.  That tells me that the cost of doing business has gone up.  The same thing has happened on the premium end of the Android smartphone segment. A lot of that is a result of the economic and political environment. If Apple maintained premium prices based on the numbers you've given, they would take a serious hit to their gross margins. Having said that, depending on how sales go over the next year, that may be a strategy that they're willing to explore.
    Yes. My anger is due to the lack of understanding around Apple’s pricing. Apple doesn’t sacrifice its margins. The price increases are cost of goods and production related. Otherwise gross margin % would be up since the iPhone X launch. The X was the best selling phone last yr.  The XS is the same price in USD. So, obv they have made headway in costs over the yr. 

    As for pricing outside the USA, the USD growing in strength has forced Apple to increase prices in foreign countries as they have to report in USD. They want to maintain margins across the board.

    iPhone sales have been mostly flat/predictable for abt 3-4yrs but now it is peak iPhone only now? Meanwhile Apple has added 300,000,000 users to the iOS install base. Apple understands it has an amazing grey market. It doesnt need a budget or midrange price point. The grey market takes those sales. Apples keeps premium priced highend pricepoints which protect the grey market prices.
    brisance
  • Reply 68 of 78
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,073member
    asdasd said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Its definitely something. Also the old phones are fine. I have an 8, no reason to upgrade. 

    If Apple produce something really good in iOS for the next generation of phones - it might force the upgrade cycle.
    Other than the nice colors there is really nothing better about the Xr than the 8Plus which has the dual Zoom camera and a higher definition screen.   I just could not believe they had the gall to release the "liquid retina" screen.  I have both a 8Plus and and 7Plus.   No reason to upgrade at all.    The killer feature that I would be interested in is Solid State battery that could provide 2 days of usage time at less weight.   But don't try to charge me $200 extra for it.
  • Reply 69 of 78
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,430member
    clarker99 said:
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    @clarker99 and you are both right.  Gross margins haven't gone up (for the most part) in a few year & prices have gone up on the premium end.  That tells me that the cost of doing business has gone up.  The same thing has happened on the premium end of the Android smartphone segment. A lot of that is a result of the economic and political environment. If Apple maintained premium prices based on the numbers you've given, they would take a serious hit to their gross margins. Having said that, depending on how sales go over the next year, that may be a strategy that they're willing to explore.
    Yes. My anger is due to the lack of understanding around Apple’s pricing. Apple doesn’t sacrifice its margins. The price increases are cost of goods and production related. Otherwise gross margin % would be up since the iPhone X launch. The X was the best selling phone last yr.  The XS is the same price in USD. So, obv they have made headway in costs over the yr. 

    As for pricing outside the USA, the USD growing in strength has forced Apple to increase prices in foreign countries as they have to report in USD. They want to maintain margins across the board.

    iPhone sales have been mostly flat/predictable for abt 3-4yrs but now it is peak iPhone only now? Meanwhile Apple has added 300,000,000 users to the iOS install base. Apple understands it has an amazing grey market. It doesnt need a budget or midrange price point. The grey market takes those sales. Apples keeps premium priced highend pricepoints which protect the grey market prices.
    Did Apple ever confirm that the X was their best selling phone last year? Was that point mentioned in the Q4 earnings call?
  • Reply 70 of 78
    As the note says this is a note from a month ago and just why is it reported now, sounding like it was brand new news . That is backing up previously released information from earlier reports including this same suspectly biased informations.   sounds like Reuter’s fake news
  • Reply 71 of 78
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,553administrator
    brisance said:
    The mark of a good writer is to make himself easily understood without ambiguity. While I understand that AI cannot reproduce the note due to copyright reasons, surely the article could've been re-written to give a clearer picture of what it's all about. A simple table showing projections of iPhone Xr vs overall iPhone shipments, original vs current predictions, would've been way more helpful.
    I think you may have an unrealistic expectation of an array of actual numbers being provided by most of the analysts.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 72 of 78
    k2kw said:
    asdasd said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Its definitely something. Also the old phones are fine. I have an 8, no reason to upgrade. 

    If Apple produce something really good in iOS for the next generation of phones - it might force the upgrade cycle.
    Other than the nice colors there is really nothing better about the Xr than the 8Plus which has the dual Zoom camera and a higher definition screen.   I just could not believe they had the gall to release the "liquid retina" screen.  I have both a 8Plus and and 7Plus.   No reason to upgrade at all.    The killer feature that I would be interested in is Solid State battery that could provide 2 days of usage time at less weight.   But don't try to charge me $200 extra for it.
    Samsung won’t even have solid state batteries until next year. Give me a break.
  • Reply 73 of 78
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,073member
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    Talk about getter desparate.   Thanksgiving BestBuy had the HomePod for $250 or $100 off.   Now BHphoto has the same deal.
    I passed on them because no Auxilary port-in and I don’t want a dumber Siri than what’s in the phone.   Of course they should sell millions with  such a big discount.  We will see if it makes a difference in the 4th quarter.

    Apple really needs to get their New TV service up and bringing in revenue or even the bright spot of Services will plateau soon.

    It’s either that or an Apple Car to save their financials.   It’s not going to be a 2nd gen AirPods or AirPower.   

  • Reply 74 of 78
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,073member

    Ming-Chi Kuo Where is the Car???


    If Apple enters the car market there better have something super to compete with Tesla.
  • Reply 75 of 78
    k2kw said:
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    Talk about getter desparate.   Thanksgiving BestBuy had the HomePod for $250 or $100 off.   Now BHphoto has the same deal.
    I passed on them because no Auxilary port-in and I don’t want a dumber Siri than what’s in the phone.   Of course they should sell millions with  such a big discount.  We will see if it makes a difference in the 4th quarter.

    Apple really needs to get their New TV service up and bringing in revenue or even the bright spot of Services will plateau soon.

    It’s either that or an Apple Car to save their financials.   It’s not going to be a 2nd gen AirPods or AirPower.   

    Take a deep breath there big fella. The company has been growing and is going to report the biggest quarter in history. But sure, desperate.
  • Reply 76 of 78
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    @clarker99 and you are both right.  Gross margins haven't gone up (for the most part) in a few year & prices have gone up on the premium end.  That tells me that the cost of doing business has gone up.  The same thing has happened on the premium end of the Android smartphone segment. A lot of that is a result of the economic and political environment. If Apple maintained premium prices based on the numbers you've given, they would take a serious hit to their gross margins. Having said that, depending on how sales go over the next year, that may be a strategy that they're willing to explore.
    Yes. My anger is due to the lack of understanding around Apple’s pricing. Apple doesn’t sacrifice its margins. The price increases are cost of goods and production related. Otherwise gross margin % would be up since the iPhone X launch. The X was the best selling phone last yr.  The XS is the same price in USD. So, obv they have made headway in costs over the yr. 

    As for pricing outside the USA, the USD growing in strength has forced Apple to increase prices in foreign countries as they have to report in USD. They want to maintain margins across the board.

    iPhone sales have been mostly flat/predictable for abt 3-4yrs but now it is peak iPhone only now? Meanwhile Apple has added 300,000,000 users to the iOS install base. Apple understands it has an amazing grey market. It doesnt need a budget or midrange price point. The grey market takes those sales. Apples keeps premium priced highend pricepoints which protect the grey market prices.
    Did Apple ever confirm that the X was their best selling phone last year? Was that point mentioned in the Q4 earnings call?
    Last mention was the July 31 earnings call. So, Nov 2017 to July 2018 it was the best selling phone based on Tim Cook. Can we assume the X outsold the rest of the lineup for the ~6 weeks before the XS/Max launched? 
  • Reply 77 of 78
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,430member
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    @clarker99 and you are both right.  Gross margins haven't gone up (for the most part) in a few year & prices have gone up on the premium end.  That tells me that the cost of doing business has gone up.  The same thing has happened on the premium end of the Android smartphone segment. A lot of that is a result of the economic and political environment. If Apple maintained premium prices based on the numbers you've given, they would take a serious hit to their gross margins. Having said that, depending on how sales go over the next year, that may be a strategy that they're willing to explore.
    Yes. My anger is due to the lack of understanding around Apple’s pricing. Apple doesn’t sacrifice its margins. The price increases are cost of goods and production related. Otherwise gross margin % would be up since the iPhone X launch. The X was the best selling phone last yr.  The XS is the same price in USD. So, obv they have made headway in costs over the yr. 

    As for pricing outside the USA, the USD growing in strength has forced Apple to increase prices in foreign countries as they have to report in USD. They want to maintain margins across the board.

    iPhone sales have been mostly flat/predictable for abt 3-4yrs but now it is peak iPhone only now? Meanwhile Apple has added 300,000,000 users to the iOS install base. Apple understands it has an amazing grey market. It doesnt need a budget or midrange price point. The grey market takes those sales. Apples keeps premium priced highend pricepoints which protect the grey market prices.
    Did Apple ever confirm that the X was their best selling phone last year? Was that point mentioned in the Q4 earnings call?
    Last mention was the July 31 earnings call. So, Nov 2017 to July 2018 it was the best selling phone based on Tim Cook. Can we assume the X outsold the rest of the lineup for the ~6 weeks before the XS/Max launched? 
    We can assume many things. At this point, all there is is speculation.

    We could also assume that up to the release of the refreshed X series, sales of the iPhone X dropped off quite significantly. Enough for it to lose its place as 'most popular'. If that happened, we could also assume that, in spite of being the most popular seller in the previous quarters, it was by a slim margin overall.

    Why else would Apple not continue to highlight its most popular phone, even if only in passing?

    Gartner had speculated that 4th quarter iPhone X sales had fallen off sharply (even below the usual trail off prior to new releases).


  • Reply 78 of 78
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    clarker99 said:
    jdgaz said:
    Until Tim Cook says something other than what he said on the earnings call I do not believe any of this baloney.
    I normally wouldn’t either but the fact that Apple is aggressively pushing their trade-in program and even increased trade-in values by $100 makes me think there might be something to these rumors. Nothing like this was on the front page of Apple’s website last year or any year before that.

    Maybe they’re all getting the supply chain completely wrong. Wouldn’t be the firs time. Or maybe consumers are balking at the higher prices. A couple years ago the flagship iPhone started at $649. Now it’s $999. That’s not nothing. 
    Lets look at facts not rhetoric.
    Apple’s gross margins have been more or less the same since Steve’s time untill now.
     That says it all, period. ( public record… go check it )
    All this talk about ‘Apple is greedy this, greedy that, is just BS talk from the unreasonably disgruntled individuals.. and competition’s negative propaganda....and shorts....Thats all.
     Apple has been a higher priced brand and still is…. nothing has changed.

     Plus...Old commoditized electronics or in general products becomes cheaper in time.
    But Not New Cutting Edge Tehnology! The massive R&D expenses both in product and production equipment …and ramp up cost dont just evaporate in thin air.
     So lets stop this Apple bashing fad. Apple has phones from 449$ to 1500$.
     Pick the one that offers the proper value proposition for you.
     
    PS..
     iPhone 7 128, when it was first released sold for 749$ 2 years or so later it is selling for 449$..
     As you can see in black and white ..the old got cheaper .. by 40 %.
    Fact though is prices on flagship phones have gone up. Is price a consideration at all when Apple is designing new products. I think it should be a factor. I wish Apple would have found a way to get the new MacBook Air at a $999 starting price. Also the competition isn’t garbage anymore. Certainly not the hardware. So Apple has to work harder to justify the price premium.
    The gross margin % hasnt moved! The prices are not ‘jacked up’ or ‘raised’. Why pedal this nonsense? 
    So if the end consumer is paying more out of pocket that’s not a price increase? 
    @clarker99 and you are both right.  Gross margins haven't gone up (for the most part) in a few year & prices have gone up on the premium end.  That tells me that the cost of doing business has gone up.  The same thing has happened on the premium end of the Android smartphone segment. A lot of that is a result of the economic and political environment. If Apple maintained premium prices based on the numbers you've given, they would take a serious hit to their gross margins. Having said that, depending on how sales go over the next year, that may be a strategy that they're willing to explore.
    Yes. My anger is due to the lack of understanding around Apple’s pricing. Apple doesn’t sacrifice its margins. The price increases are cost of goods and production related. Otherwise gross margin % would be up since the iPhone X launch. The X was the best selling phone last yr.  The XS is the same price in USD. So, obv they have made headway in costs over the yr. 

    As for pricing outside the USA, the USD growing in strength has forced Apple to increase prices in foreign countries as they have to report in USD. They want to maintain margins across the board.

    iPhone sales have been mostly flat/predictable for abt 3-4yrs but now it is peak iPhone only now? Meanwhile Apple has added 300,000,000 users to the iOS install base. Apple understands it has an amazing grey market. It doesnt need a budget or midrange price point. The grey market takes those sales. Apples keeps premium priced highend pricepoints which protect the grey market prices.
    Did Apple ever confirm that the X was their best selling phone last year? Was that point mentioned in the Q4 earnings call?
    Last mention was the July 31 earnings call. So, Nov 2017 to July 2018 it was the best selling phone based on Tim Cook. Can we assume the X outsold the rest of the lineup for the ~6 weeks before the XS/Max launched? 
    We can assume many things. At this point, all there is is speculation.

    We could also assume that up to the release of the refreshed X series, sales of the iPhone X dropped off quite significantly. Enough for it to lose its place as 'most popular'. If that happened, we could also assume that, in spite of being the most popular seller in the previous quarters, it was by a slim margin overall.

    Why else would Apple not continue to highlight its most popular phone, even if only in passing?

    Gartner had speculated that 4th quarter iPhone X sales had fallen off sharply (even below the usual trail off prior to new releases).


    Dude, it sold enough to affect gross margin %. ASP went way up but gross margin % did not move. Therefore the narrative Apple indiscriminately raised prices is false. 
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