Personally, I’m not that crazy about the “X” phones and may get an iPhone 8 instead. I don’t want to give up the ease of use I like about having a home button to be honest and I don’t care for Face ID.
Not a great fan of faceid myself and I have a X. The failure rate of the faceid vs finger id is at least 10x higher.
I love Face ID and would never go back to Touch ID but it’s possible that is a factor. Last year one of the new phones still had Touch ID. This year all the new phones were Face ID only. Perhaps people are more attached to the home button than we think.
I went from a 4s straight to an X. So I never had Touch ID but probably would have used it if I did have it. But I have never been interested in using the Face ID on my X.
I upgraded last year to an 8. I'd love to have an XS Max but just can't bite that big a bullet one year later.
I think the unspoken story here is that Apple got too ambitious with the price increases across their product line. Price of entry on everything went up significantly.
Not really. An entry level iPad is cheaper today than when the iPad was first released. Same goes for an iPhone. You can get a new iPhone for under $500. What did a new iPhone (without subsidies) cost when it launched? Much more. Everyone is so focused on the top of the line prices. They are expensive, maybe too expensive, but that’s not the problem.
I am holding off on a new iPhone and am sticking with my 6S Plus for a while longer due to Apple's higher prices. I'm sure I am not the only one...
Why not? Still works?? But if you cannot afford a new iPhone theres a lot of android alternative. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy a latest and the greatest
Nobody even mentions that Apple is still selling the iPhone 7, 8 and now again the X. If you don’t need the latest model, there are plenty of less-expensive models to choose from. People are focusing on the most-expensive Xs Max instead of the whole lineup. Yes the Xs Max is expensive - one reason I’m keeping my 8 Plus. But it’s not all there is.
It's ridiculous isn't it?
People complain about price and then quote the most expensive iPhone as an example.
The latest iPhone is $750.
The cheapest latest iPhone I can get without a trade in is 850€. That is a huge amount for just 64GB of storage, single camera, huge bezels etc.
It's still the latest iPhone.
Don't move the goalposts.
But not $750. No goalposts moved. That $750 price is available only in some markets. You can't close your eyes to the rest of the world nor ignore that the latest iPhones also go way past $1,000.
You would be better off stating the latest iPhones start at $749 in the US.
I am holding off on a new iPhone and am sticking with my 6S Plus for a while longer due to Apple's higher prices. I'm sure I am not the only one...
Why not? Still works?? But if you cannot afford a new iPhone theres a lot of android alternative. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy a latest and the greatest
Nobody even mentions that Apple is still selling the iPhone 7, 8 and now again the X. If you don’t need the latest model, there are plenty of less-expensive models to choose from. People are focusing on the most-expensive Xs Max instead of the whole lineup. Yes the Xs Max is expensive - one reason I’m keeping my 8 Plus. But it’s not all there is.
It's ridiculous isn't it?
People complain about price and then quote the most expensive iPhone as an example.
The latest iPhone is $750.
When do people complain that Ford is too expensive and then continue to quote the $70,000 Shelby Mustang? Like they say, people have special rules for Apple.
Ya that claim keeps being made. However the piddly insultingly low 64GB of storage make that phone useless many. If you're replacing an older phone that cost less but had not storage and you're using it, that low end entry phone isn't going to cut it. That send to be Apple's strategy. Put devices with very low storage (and RAM on MacBooks) to try and bring people in. Then when they spec the machine they need is hundreds or thousands more.
Well XR seems to be doing fine.
64GB is plenty for a lot of people. I'm thinking of buying a 64GB XR myself.
Would you prefer XR start at 128GB and $799?
Like I said Apple can't win with the haters. I think a better strategy would have been a smaller screen size and lower price. But Apple is only gonna be 4 billion from breaking a new record so maybe Tim Cook is a better CEO than the rest of us?
Personally, I’m not that crazy about the “X” phones and may get an iPhone 8 instead. I don’t want to give up the ease of use I like about having a home button to be honest and I don’t care for Face ID.
You obviously haven't used an "X" phone if you think the home button has some sort of ease of use advantage. The new gestures are far superior, I had to go back to a 6 when replacing my X and it was a miserable experience.
While I prefer facial recognition because of the greater security, it is not as fast or nimble as using your thumb. One has to more deliberately lift and place the phone in a certain position to scan your face, where using a fingerpriint allows for unlocks (and glances) at any angle.
Having said that, I don't think that's material to the missed forecast. Given the penalties if he were lying or misleading, I'm fairly certain Tim outlined the real reasons - a vast majority of the miss are sales results to Greater China and some other emerging markets. How much of this is price has impacted is unclear, given the wide range of product pricing Apple does offer. Did the iPhone "boycott" hurt in China? Tariffs or not, China is a bit of a house of cards anyway. Despite the stories of a growing middle class there, those I know that work visit/there several times a year for business seem to see a very wealthy minority and a much lower income majority.
Their prices have gotten too damn high. I’m not the only one here saying as much. If we’re mostly die hard Apple supporters and we’re holding off because of high prices, think about the average person. I wanted to upgrade our whole line of iOS and watch OS devices this year but the prices were too high. I’m hoping Apple learns their lesson and makes things more affordable.
or as they say, give away the razor, sell the blades. Apparently successful as the prices of these new razor blades are also asinine.
I'm keeping my two SEs until the batteries finally fail. Then, I might get an 8 - - if they're still around. Apple has forgotten the primary utility of an iPhone is the PHONE, and not the camera.
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
I am holding off on a new iPhone and am sticking with my 6S Plus for a while longer due to Apple's higher prices. I'm sure I am not the only one...
Why not? Still works?? But if you cannot afford a new iPhone theres a lot of android alternative. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy a latest and the greatest
Nobody even mentions that Apple is still selling the iPhone 7, 8 and now again the X. If you don’t need the latest model, there are plenty of less-expensive models to choose from. People are focusing on the most-expensive Xs Max instead of the whole lineup. Yes the Xs Max is expensive - one reason I’m keeping my 8 Plus. But it’s not all there is.
It's ridiculous isn't it?
People complain about price and then quote the most expensive iPhone as an example.
The latest iPhone is $750.
The cheapest latest iPhone I can get without a trade in is 850€. That is a huge amount for just 64GB of storage, single camera, huge bezels etc.
It's still the latest iPhone.
Don't move the goalposts.
But not $750. No goalposts moved. That $750 price is available only in some markets. You can't close your eyes to the rest of the world nor ignore that the latest iPhones also go way past $1,000.
You would be better off stating the latest iPhones start at $749 in the US.
But my reply was to someone else quoting the U.S. dollar.
Should I be a currency converter calculator for everyone on the forum?
So yes, you did move the goalpost. Dammit you moved it all the way to a different country!
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
DEAD ON with the XR confusion. A lot of people went into the Apple store prepared to drop $1000+ on a XS and left with a cheaper XR with a larger screen....
Shtz...Luckily, I dumped all AAPL in my regular investment and left only $5000 of this stock in IRA account.
Time will tell. My dad’s cost basis is $0.07/share. People have predicted Apple’s demise forever, yet I doubt many investments would have given my dad the same return over the past few decades. You just have to have a strong stomach as an Apple investor because their share price isn’t remotely grounded in reality. They are probably the most emotionally charged/manipulated security on the market.
Hate to say it but this tweet is spot on. Probably not a good idea for Cook to partially blame slow iPhone sales on cheaper battery replacements.
Josh Centers (@jcenters)
1/2/19, 5:20 PM
If a $29 battery slows down iPhone sales, then either people were only buying new iPhones because their old ones were getting slower or Apple isn’t producing interesting iPhones.
This tweet too is spot on:
Rene Ritchie (@reneritchie) 1/2/19, 5:24 PM IMHO, complaints about pricing, price points, home buttons, headphone jacks, batteries, upgrade cycles, etc. are all valid but are also all besides the point, which remains: Can Apple transition iPhone from growth driver to platform that enables more growth drivers? That’s it.
I Wonder if Angela Ahrendts influace has something to do with whats happening with Apples prices and image of super lux. Product... indtead of value proposition.
I said it months ago. The XR should have had a smaller screen size, pulling the price down to at least 699 with the same profits, maybe even a lower price.
Android phones with screens bigger than the Xr sell for much less than the Xr though. So there's no excusing high prices with feature X or Y.
Certainly not the first time Apple out priced a product. It happens from time to time and it will happen again eventually. Honestly, I think this happens to every company eventually.
True but will they admit a mistake and correct or just keep chugging down the same track. Only time they admitted a mistake in pricing I can remember was the first iPhone where they dropped the price and pissed off everyone who'd bought it early.
They gave a voucher to those who bought early though.
Shtz...Luckily, I dumped all AAPL in my regular investment and left only $5000 of this stock in IRA account.
Time will tell. My dad’s cost basis is $0.07/share. People have predicted Apple’s demise forever, yet I doubt many investments would have given my dad the same return over the past few decades. You just have to have a strong stomach as an Apple investor because their share price isn’t remotely grounded in reality. They are probably the most emotionally charged/manipulated security on the market.
The sad part is Apple is only 4 billion from breaking another world record but the panic will have you believe Apple will go bankrupt this year.
I Wonder if Angela Ahrendts influace has something to do with whats happening with Apples prices and image of super lux. Product... indtead of value proposition.
I said it months ago. The XR should have had a smaller screen size, pulling the price down to at least 699 with the same profits, maybe even a lower price.
Android phones with screens bigger than the Xr sell for much less than the Xr though. So there's no excusing high prices with feature X or Y.
Certainly not the first time Apple out priced a product. It happens from time to time and it will happen again eventually. Honestly, I think this happens to every company eventually.
True but will they admit a mistake and correct or just keep chugging down the same track. Only time they admitted a mistake in pricing I can remember was the first iPhone where they dropped the price and pissed off everyone who'd bought it early.
They gave a voucher to those who bought early though.
How many androids run iOS?
Also, my point was, a smaller screen size would have made a more desirable iPhone. Bigger isn't always better.
Hate to say it but this tweet is spot on. Probably not a good idea for Cook to partially blame slow iPhone sales on cheaper battery replacements.
Josh Centers (@jcenters)
1/2/19, 5:20 PM
If a $29 battery slows down iPhone sales, then either people were only buying new iPhones because their old ones were getting slower or Apple isn’t producing interesting iPhones.
Bullshit. "only"? Not interesting? Give me a break. You're just excited because so many of these armchair analysts are feeding into your Chicken Little confirmation bias.
I am holding off on a new iPhone and am sticking with my 6S Plus for a while longer due to Apple's higher prices. I'm sure I am not the only one...
Why not? Still works?? But if you cannot afford a new iPhone theres a lot of android alternative. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy a latest and the greatest
Nobody even mentions that Apple is still selling the iPhone 7, 8 and now again the X. If you don’t need the latest model, there are plenty of less-expensive models to choose from. People are focusing on the most-expensive Xs Max instead of the whole lineup. Yes the Xs Max is expensive - one reason I’m keeping my 8 Plus. But it’s not all there is.
It's ridiculous isn't it?
People complain about price and then quote the most expensive iPhone as an example.
The latest iPhone is $750.
The cheapest latest iPhone I can get without a trade in is 850€. That is a huge amount for just 64GB of storage, single camera, huge bezels etc.
It's still the latest iPhone.
Don't move the goalposts.
But not $750. No goalposts moved. That $750 price is available only in some markets. You can't close your eyes to the rest of the world nor ignore that the latest iPhones also go way past $1,000.
You would be better off stating the latest iPhones start at $749 in the US.
But my reply was to someone else quoting the U.S. dollar.
Should I be a currency converter calculator for everyone on the forum?
So yes, you did move the goalpost. Dammit you moved it all the way to a different country!
I see no reference at all to US dollar. That doesn't change anything though. The latest iPhone isn't $750. It starts at 749 US dollars and scales far beyond that.
The person you were replying to didn't even specify which kind of dollar he or she was referring to. Not that it matters in the slightest.
I am holding off on a new iPhone and am sticking with my 6S Plus for a while longer due to Apple's higher prices. I'm sure I am not the only one...
Why not? Still works?? But if you cannot afford a new iPhone theres a lot of android alternative. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy a latest and the greatest
Nobody even mentions that Apple is still selling the iPhone 7, 8 and now again the X. If you don’t need the latest model, there are plenty of less-expensive models to choose from. People are focusing on the most-expensive Xs Max instead of the whole lineup. Yes the Xs Max is expensive - one reason I’m keeping my 8 Plus. But it’s not all there is.
It's ridiculous isn't it?
People complain about price and then quote the most expensive iPhone as an example.
The latest iPhone is $750.
The cheapest latest iPhone I can get without a trade in is 850€. That is a huge amount for just 64GB of storage, single camera, huge bezels etc.
It's still the latest iPhone.
Don't move the goalposts.
But not $750. No goalposts moved. That $750 price is available only in some markets. You can't close your eyes to the rest of the world nor ignore that the latest iPhones also go way past $1,000.
You would be better off stating the latest iPhones start at $749 in the US.
But my reply was to someone else quoting the U.S. dollar.
Should I be a currency converter calculator for everyone on the forum?
So yes, you did move the goalpost. Dammit you moved it all the way to a different country!
I see no reference at all to US dollar. That doesn't change anything though. The latest iPhone isn't $750. It starts at 749 US dollars and scales far beyond that.
The person you were replying to didn't even specify which kind of dollar he or she was referring to. Not that it matters in the slightest.
So you just proved my point that the latest iPhone starts at 749.
I bought the X back in April to replace my ridiculously slow iP6+. I love everything about it and would never go back to the old TouchID. Even as I did, I too cringed a bit at the $1,300+/- I paid for it. Granted, smartphones are ubiquitous and a necessity nowadays and there is now way I would trade down to an Android phone (even if it were free) so I went ahead as it will be my phone for the next three years at least.
I too think the prices that Apple is charging for their top-of-the-line iPhone was getting to be a bit ridiculous, and I am an ardent Apple fan and AAPL owner. Sure, there are $750 iPhones, but when it really comes down to it, people/media only look to Apple's TOL offerings.
Either way, this was bound to happen. No company is immune to roller coaster rides, and Apple is no different. I think it was a necessary kick in the backside that Tim Cook needs to re-evaluate its pricing structures. I have zero problem with Apple making as much profit as the market will bear. I think Tim Cook may have hit that ceiling and will adjust accordingly for the next round.
On the flip side, if Apple lowers the prices on their flagship phone on the next introduction, the haters will simply come out of their parent's basement and bash Apple for doing that too... So either way, it's a no-win scenario for Apple.
iPhone prices have gotten super high especially on a comparison basis. Sure iPhone users are pretty sticky to the great ecosystem but if you want more to upgrade to the latest more often then you need to push more features with better pricing. I buy the latest iPhone every year and almost skipped this year except I really wanted the bigger screen of the Max.
With respect to some who use this as an excuse to bash Trump, you should be bashing Cook. The U.S. economy is doing great and more people than ever have jobs and with improving wages (to be able to afford iPhones!). Apple got a bit heady but still amazing sales numbers regardless of guidance or expectations.
Comments
You would be better off stating the latest iPhones start at $749 in the US.
64GB is plenty for a lot of people. I'm thinking of buying a 64GB XR myself.
Would you prefer XR start at 128GB and $799?
Like I said Apple can't win with the haters. I think a better strategy would have been a smaller screen size and lower price. But Apple is only gonna be 4 billion from breaking a new record so maybe Tim Cook is a better CEO than the rest of us?
Having said that, I don't think that's material to the missed forecast. Given the penalties if he were lying or misleading, I'm fairly certain Tim outlined the real reasons - a vast majority of the miss are sales results to Greater China and some other emerging markets. How much of this is price has impacted is unclear, given the wide range of product pricing Apple does offer. Did the iPhone "boycott" hurt in China? Tariffs or not, China is a bit of a house of cards anyway. Despite the stories of a growing middle class there, those I know that work visit/there several times a year for business seem to see a very wealthy minority and a much lower income majority.
Should I be a currency converter calculator for everyone on the forum?
So yes, you did move the goalpost. Dammit you moved it all the way to a different country!
This tweet too is spot on:
They gave a voucher to those who bought early though.
Also, my point was, a smaller screen size would have made a more desirable iPhone. Bigger isn't always better.
The person you were replying to didn't even specify which kind of dollar he or she was referring to. Not that it matters in the slightest.
Heck you even dropped a dollar! Nice!
With respect to some who use this as an excuse to bash Trump, you should be bashing Cook. The U.S. economy is doing great and more people than ever have jobs and with improving wages (to be able to afford iPhones!). Apple got a bit heady but still amazing sales numbers regardless of guidance or expectations.