Apple's revenue revision spawns second class action investigation

Comments

• Reply 1 of 16

  SpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

  January 4, 2019 2:55PM

  Lawyers will be lawyers.

  
• Reply 2 of 16

  dewme Posts: 5,361member

  January 4, 2019 2:58PM

  I’m confused. I’ve seen many companies, including ones I’ve worked for, revise their guidance when the actuals are trending too far from the estimates. This is all part of being transparent and operating in good faith. Nobody likes surprises, especially bad ones, so the best way to handle bad news is to put it out there early so those affected have as much time as possible to deal with it on their end. When did operating a business in an open and honest manner become a prosecutable offense?

  
• Reply 3 of 16

  agilealtitude Posts: 165member

  January 4, 2019 3:00PM

  Just keeps getting better. Now companies are expected to be ridiculously accurate reading their crystal ball into the future?  Quite frankly I’m surprised he was accurate to within 7%. 
  
  The stock market is nothing but legalized gambling, and investors / lawyers are just looking for someone to blame / sue for the recent stock plunge.
  

  
• Reply 4 of 16

  Kuyangkoh Posts: 838member

  January 4, 2019 3:05PM

  agilealtitude said:

  Just keeps getting better. Now companies are expected to be ridiculously accurate reading their crystal ball into the future?  Quite frankly I’m surprised he was accurate to within 7%. 
  
  The stock market is nothing but legalized gambling, and investors / lawyers are just looking for someone to blame / sue for the recent stock plunge.
  

  There we go again.....if your pocketbooks are full and bulging, somebody will find ways get some of it...its a fact Jack
• Reply 5 of 16

  ericthehalfbee Posts: 4,486member

  January 4, 2019 3:17PM

  More stupidity.
  
  If there's one thing Tim Cook is famous for it's not giving away any information about what Apple is doing. Whether that be about future products or how the company is doing financially. He's notoriously vague.
  

  
• Reply 6 of 16

  aaploutsider Posts: 22member

  January 4, 2019 3:55PM

  ericthehalfbee said:

  More stupidity.
  
  If there's one thing Tim Cook is famous for it's not giving away any information about what Apple is doing. Whether that be about future products or how the company is doing financially. He's notoriously vague.
  

  How a realist looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (does he mean Apple's initiatives to grow in China on top of the 16th percent?). We grew 16 percent (in what? selling iPhone X? selling services? expanding factories? ramping up production? what exactly?), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (in what? selling services? because it definitely isn't in total iPhone unit sales in China per year)"

  How a normal forum Apple fanatic/heretic looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (yeah! See Tim Cook said it was strong and he can't lie!). We grew 16 percent (yeah! See! This is growth here. He can't lie about this!), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (clearly Tim Cook said that the iPhone was strong there, and Apple can't lie about it! This is a fact!)"

  edited January 2019
• Reply 7 of 16

  flaneur Posts: 4,526member

  January 4, 2019 4:15PM

  aaploutsider said:

  ericthehalfbee said:

  More stupidity.
  
  If there's one thing Tim Cook is famous for it's not giving away any information about what Apple is doing. Whether that be about future products or how the company is doing financially. He's notoriously vague.
  

  How a realist looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (does he mean Apple's initiatives to grow in China on top of the 16th percent?). We grew 16 percent (in what? selling iPhone X? selling services? expanding factories? ramping up production? what exactly?), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (in what? selling services? because it definitely isn't in total iPhone unit sales in China per year)"

  How a normal forum Apple fanatic/heretic looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (yeah! See Tim Cook said it was strong and he can't lie!). We grew 16 percent (yeah! See! This is growth here. He can't lie about this!), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (clearly Tim Cook said that the iPhone was strong there, and Apple can't lie about it! This is a fact!)"

  And then a certain rogue president starts a trade war . . .

  
• Reply 8 of 16

  anantksundaram Posts: 20,404member

  January 4, 2019 4:27PM

  dewme said:

  I’m confused. I’ve seen many companies, including ones I’ve worked for, revise their guidance when the actuals are trending too far from the estimates. This is all part of being transparent and operating in good faith. Nobody likes surprises, especially bad ones, so the best way to handle bad news is to put it out there early so those affected have as much time as possible to deal with it on their end. When did operating a business in an open and honest manner become a prosecutable offense?

  This is par for the course. The question these guys are asking is whether it was indeed done in an "...open and honest manner." Under prevailing governance norms in the US -- notably, the business judgment rule -- Apple will say "yes".
  
  And this will likely go the way most of these class action lawsuits do: nowhere.

  
• Reply 9 of 16

  rogifan_new Posts: 4,297member

  January 4, 2019 4:40PM

  flaneur said:

  aaploutsider said:

  ericthehalfbee said:

  More stupidity.
  
  If there's one thing Tim Cook is famous for it's not giving away any information about what Apple is doing. Whether that be about future products or how the company is doing financially. He's notoriously vague.
  

  How a realist looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (does he mean Apple's initiatives to grow in China on top of the 16th percent?). We grew 16 percent (in what? selling iPhone X? selling services? expanding factories? ramping up production? what exactly?), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (in what? selling services? because it definitely isn't in total iPhone unit sales in China per year)"

  How a normal forum Apple fanatic/heretic looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (yeah! See Tim Cook said it was strong and he can't lie!). We grew 16 percent (yeah! See! This is growth here. He can't lie about this!), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (clearly Tim Cook said that the iPhone was strong there, and Apple can't lie about it! This is a fact!)"

  And then a certain rogue president starts a trade war . . .

  Wasn’t that started many months ago? 
• Reply 10 of 16

  randominternetperson Posts: 3,089member

  January 4, 2019 5:07PM

  anantksundaram said:

  dewme said:

  I’m confused. I’ve seen many companies, including ones I’ve worked for, revise their guidance when the actuals are trending too far from the estimates. This is all part of being transparent and operating in good faith. Nobody likes surprises, especially bad ones, so the best way to handle bad news is to put it out there early so those affected have as much time as possible to deal with it on their end. When did operating a business in an open and honest manner become a prosecutable offense?

  This is par for the course. The question these guys are asking is whether it was indeed done in an "...open and honest manner." Under prevailing governance norms in the US -- notably, the business judgment rule -- Apple will say "yes".
  
  And this will likely go the way most of these class action lawsuits do: nowhere.

  Exactly.  It's not about the revised guidance per se, it's whether the guidance was given soon enough or if Apple was misleading in their prior guidance.  I expect the lawyers don't actually expect to win, but the payout if they do could be so big it's worth rolling those dice.  If you're going to take someone to court, you might as well go after a firm that saw hundreds of billions of dollars in lost market cap.

  
• Reply 11 of 16

  flaneur Posts: 4,526member

  January 4, 2019 5:55PM

  rogifan_new said:

  flaneur said:

  aaploutsider said:

  ericthehalfbee said:

  More stupidity.
  
  If there's one thing Tim Cook is famous for it's not giving away any information about what Apple is doing. Whether that be about future products or how the company is doing financially. He's notoriously vague.
  

  How a realist looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (does he mean Apple's initiatives to grow in China on top of the 16th percent?). We grew 16 percent (in what? selling iPhone X? selling services? expanding factories? ramping up production? what exactly?), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (in what? selling services? because it definitely isn't in total iPhone unit sales in China per year)"

  How a normal forum Apple fanatic/heretic looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (yeah! See Tim Cook said it was strong and he can't lie!). We grew 16 percent (yeah! See! This is growth here. He can't lie about this!), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (clearly Tim Cook said that the iPhone was strong there, and Apple can't lie about it! This is a fact!)"

  And then a certain rogue president starts a trade war . . .

  Wasn’t that started many months ago? 

  Yes. And it’s starting to get real now.
• Reply 12 of 16

  maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

  January 4, 2019 5:56PM

  Folks the government made a statement today that Apple is the first in a long list of companies who will be putting our a warn since many companies make money in China and their business will be hurt. Two others I hear this morning was McDonalds and Starbucks both recognize 10% of their revenue from China. 
  
  Keep in mind China has implemented a system which is similar to the US credit history/rating but China has Social or Behavior rating which is more than whether you pay your bills on time and China is using this right now to ding people's ratings if they interact with US based companies in China.
  
  Imagine if the US Government could affect US consumers behavior by whacking your social standing in society. Hell we already have the social warriors shaming and banning  people on Facebook and Twitter for bad humor. Image if the social warriors went after every person that bought Chinese made products. This is what is going on in China right now.
  

  
• Reply 13 of 16

  jimh2 Posts: 614member

  January 4, 2019 6:26PM

  No company is obligated to report earnings more than quarterly and this is required by the SEC. Many companies try to ease the blow by making an early announcement if the numbers don't line up. They missed by just under 6% which makes is negligible considered they still sold $89,000,000,000 worth of stuff and have the 11th highest revenue of all companies in the world that report revenue, which is above every other tech firm including Samsung. This type of lawsuit is frivolous and we need tort reform to prevent this crap from ever getting to court. Requiring a bond before filing a case would eliminate a lot of these types of cases.

  
• Reply 14 of 16

  entropys Posts: 4,166member

  January 4, 2019 9:16PM

  Hyenas circling a wildebeest with a sprained leg.
• Reply 15 of 16

  anantksundaram Posts: 20,404member

  January 4, 2019 10:25PM

  flaneur said:

  rogifan_new said:

  flaneur said:

  aaploutsider said:

  ericthehalfbee said:

  More stupidity.
  
  If there's one thing Tim Cook is famous for it's not giving away any information about what Apple is doing. Whether that be about future products or how the company is doing financially. He's notoriously vague.
  

  How a realist looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (does he mean Apple's initiatives to grow in China on top of the 16th percent?). We grew 16 percent (in what? selling iPhone X? selling services? expanding factories? ramping up production? what exactly?), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (in what? selling services? because it definitely isn't in total iPhone unit sales in China per year)"

  How a normal forum Apple fanatic/heretic looks at this statement:

  "Our business in China was very strong last quarter (yeah! See Tim Cook said it was strong and he can't lie!). We grew 16 percent (yeah! See! This is growth here. He can't lie about this!), which we're very happy with. iPhone in particular was very strong, very strong double-digit growth there. (clearly Tim Cook said that the iPhone was strong there, and Apple can't lie about it! This is a fact!)"

  And then a certain rogue president starts a trade war . . .

  Wasn’t that started many months ago? 

  Yes. And it’s starting to get real now.

  That doesn’t make sense. If anything, the situation is better now. The two countries are in negotiations, and none of the new tariffs will go into effect — it at all they do — until March 30. 
  
  The Huawei arrest is a poor excuse as well. One, it happened in Canada. Two, in reponse to an extradition request from something that happened during Obama’s tenure and was made by his administration (the details of this are well-reported and well-known; you can look it up). Three, Trump himself was surprised by that news, since it happened while he was in Latin America for the G20 summit (ironically, in a meeting with Xi), and he appears to have been blindsided by it (again, well-reported).

  
• Reply 16 of 16

  cgWerks Posts: 2,952member

  January 5, 2019 9:01AM

  agilealtitude said:

  Just keeps getting better. Now companies are expected to be ridiculously accurate reading their crystal ball into the future?  Quite frankly I’m surprised he was accurate to within 7%. 
  
  The stock market is nothing but legalized gambling, and investors / lawyers are just looking for someone to blame / sue for the recent stock plunge.
  

  Yes.... but if you and I knew the market was weakening in China (for some time now), and the Qualcomm sales ban must have been known to be a possibility for some time now... then shouldn't Apple have factored those into the forecasts?
  
  

  anantksundaram said:
  Three, Trump himself was surprised by that news, since it happened while he was in Latin America for the G20 summit (ironically, in a meeting with Xi), and he appears to have been blindsided by it (again, well-reported).

  Deep State. Good way to muck up negotiations, no?