Editorial: Apple note sends media pundits into a fit of histrionic gibberish

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  • Reply 101 of 124
    lwiolwio Posts: 110member
    Apart from the obvious click bait and shill blogs I think there is serious stock manipulation going on. Every year we see this beating on Apple then surprise everything is ok after all. 
    A serious amount of fraud is being perpetrated. 
  • Reply 102 of 124
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    docno42 said:

    knowitall said:

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    Your memory is crap/your username is pretty inaccurate.
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 

    "The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone," Jobs said at WWDC in 2007. "And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, they can send an email, they can look up a location on Google Maps. And guess what? There's no SDK that you need!" 
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-steve-jobs-resisted-apples-app-store-marks-10-years-of-third-party-innovation
    edited January 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 103 of 124

    Here's some more "oxymorons" I've noticed from the iKnockoff crowd:

    "Apple is too expensive"
    But criticizes Apple for not adding more to the XR. Like how it needs a 1080p screen(for some reason), OLED etc. which would drive the price much higher.
    Ostrich and sand??? With the benefit of hindsight, it is now easy to figure out that Apple got it wrong with respect to features and pricing of Xr. Xr is supposed to be the successor to iPhone 8 plus, but it was a side grade (design and SoC upgraded, display and camera downgraded), not a proper upgrade. It still would have been fine if Apple had priced it accordingly. But that didn't happen, hence Apple trying hard with promotional offers to increase sales. And revenue shortage purely due to lack of iphone sales. To even deny these basic facts is to keep the head firmly in the sand like an ostrich. 
    "Not a proper upgrade"

    So you're asking for more? iPhone XR starting at $899? Better idea?

    iPhone XR is the most popular iPhone right now(according to APPLE not the Verge or some fat youtuber). So not sure why you're denying the facts while giving your opinions?
    Am I asking for more? Yes. For an additional $150? No, thanks. It should have had those for $750 to begin with. I am sure you will say that "people like me who ask more from Apple have a wrong entitled mindset" and Apple was spot on with features and pricing for Xr. This is where the real problem lie. Apple and its shareholders might have an mindset that Apple is entitled to 38% margin, even in a "matured" smartphone market. But ordinary customers seem to disagree with that entitlement in large numbers.

    Disagree with what I say and need proof??? Don't look anywhere beyond last quarter original/revised guidelines, Apple CEO's letter to investors, unusual heavy promotions this year which was NOT seen in previous years. 
    iPhone XR outsold the other X models.

    So the customers have spoken. If you ran Apple, guidance would have been much worse since you believe Apple should have erased most of their XR profit.

    "iPhone 5c is a failure" deja vu?

    "Xr outsold the other X models" - It is pure PR talk, which doesn't mean much. With its lower price compared to Xs and Xs Max, It was obvious from the beginning that Xr would outsell Xs and Xs Max. That is besides the point. The key questions are:

    1. What was the expected total number of Xr units that Apple expected to sell during the Oct-2018 to Dec-2018 quarter?

    2. Did it meet those Apple's own expectations (Not some random analysts or internet blogger's expectations)????

    Customers have spoken? Really? Then, why did Apple miss "its own guidance"????

    williamlondonavon b7
  • Reply 104 of 124
    Either way, nothing is free. I would call the bigger, bezel-less, Liquid Retina an upgrade. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that it was a "downgrade".

    Also I don't believe Apple made the XR as an iPhone 8 upgrade. More like a reason for android users to switch and an entry into iOS. Same purpose the 5c served.

    Regarding Xr display, it does NOT matter what you/I/anyone in this forum think about it. What the potential buyers of iPhone Xr thought about it? That is the key here. People can easily see that Xr has a 326 ppi display Vs iPhone 7 Plus/8 Plus display with 401ppi. It is a downgrade in that aspect. Same with dual camera Vs single camera. Once Apple went with dual camera in iPhone 7 plus more than 2 years back, it is NOT going to be easy to convince the mass market that single camera in Xr is better than dual camera that they already have in their hands.

    You & @Raderthekat don't believe that Xr is NOT an successor to iPhone 8 Plus? Why? It was meant for Android switchers??? 40 million of them??? That too the people who already have FHD display in sub $150 phones? That too for $750 with Xr? Entry into iOS at $750? Seriously???

    Let us talk about the potential customers of Apple who were planning to buy iPhones in the holiday quarter. They mostly owned one of the 6/6 Plus/7/7 Plus/8/8 Plus. As per you & Raderthekat, Xs is a replacement for iPhone 6/7/8 and Xs Max is the replacement iPhone 6 Plus/7 Plus/8 Plus. What about people who did not want to shell out >$1K for their replacement phone? About 40 million of them (https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/10/15/iphone-xr-will-propel-not-just-holiday-iphone-sales-but-drive-early-2019-to-new-heights). This is where Xr filled in the gap for those with 6 Plus/7 Plus/(to a lesser extent 8 Plus) because it is similar to them in dimensions. Those with iPhone 6/7/(to a lesser extent 8) were out of luck if they wanted a smaller & cheaper option. So to suggest that Xr is NOT a successor to iPhone 6 Plus/7 Plus/8 Plus lineup is to ignore the ground reality.

    williamlondon
  • Reply 105 of 124

    Here's some more "oxymorons" I've noticed from the iKnockoff crowd:

    "Apple is too expensive"
    But criticizes Apple for not adding more to the XR. Like how it needs a 1080p screen(for some reason), OLED etc. which would drive the price much higher.
    Ostrich and sand??? With the benefit of hindsight, it is now easy to figure out that Apple got it wrong with respect to features and pricing of Xr. Xr is supposed to be the successor to iPhone 8 plus, but it was a side grade (design and SoC upgraded, display and camera downgraded), not a proper upgrade. It still would have been fine if Apple had priced it accordingly. But that didn't happen, hence Apple trying hard with promotional offers to increase sales. And revenue shortage purely due to lack of iphone sales. To even deny these basic facts is to keep the head firmly in the sand like an ostrich. 
    "Not a proper upgrade"

    So you're asking for more? iPhone XR starting at $899? Better idea?

    iPhone XR is the most popular iPhone right now(according to APPLE not the Verge or some fat youtuber). So not sure why you're denying the facts while giving your opinions?
    Am I asking for more? Yes. For an additional $150? No, thanks. It should have had those for $750 to begin with. I am sure you will say that "people like me who ask more from Apple have a wrong entitled mindset" and Apple was spot on with features and pricing for Xr. This is where the real problem lie. Apple and its shareholders might have an mindset that Apple is entitled to 38% margin, even in a "matured" smartphone market. But ordinary customers seem to disagree with that entitlement in large numbers.

    Disagree with what I say and need proof??? Don't look anywhere beyond last quarter original/revised guidelines, Apple CEO's letter to investors, unusual heavy promotions this year which was NOT seen in previous years. 
    iPhone XR outsold the other X models.

    So the customers have spoken. If you ran Apple, guidance would have been much worse since you believe Apple should have erased most of their XR profit.

    "iPhone 5c is a failure" deja vu?

    Another question - If Xr sold as per Apple's expectations, which iPhone's lesser sales caused Apple to reduce its own guidance by $4Billion??? All of them (Xs, Xs Max and XR) did NOT meet expectations? Why???
    williamlondon
  • Reply 106 of 124
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:

    knowitall said:

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    Your memory is crap/your username is pretty inaccurate.
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 

    "The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone," Jobs said at WWDC in 2007. "And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, they can send an email, they can look up a location on Google Maps. And guess what? There's no SDK that you need!" 
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-steve-jobs-resisted-apples-app-store-marks-10-years-of-third-party-innovation
    Thanks.
  • Reply 107 of 124
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    knowitall said:
    “It wasn't pundits who thought up the potential of iPhone, or the App Store, or iPads, or Machine Learning, or Augmented Reality, or any of the wildly innovative, technological underpinning features in silicon firmware, in software, in mass production assembly and in every other discipline that non-technical people simply take for granted. It was individuals at Apple who came up with this stuff while being ceaselessly derided for being "devoid of innovation," as if that phrase is inherently clever to scribble out into words or call in to CNBC on a "why Apple is doomed" expert interview.”

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    iPad and iPhone sans the name were pictured in SF and a clear follow up of the Palm pda’s much earlier.
    Machine Learning (even similar to the current implementations) was common stuff at the University’s (studied that in 1985) and Augmented reality is from not much later.
    Apple deserves credit for getting the actual implementation right and launching it to the mainstream, not for the ideas in itself. 
    So I asked Steve Jobs about the iPhone and App Store before it launched in 2007, at the company's shareholder meeting. No, it wasn't just third parties asking for something Apple hadn't implemented. Apple was already laying the foundation for the app store in 2004-2005 with apps (Games) for iPod, using the same fairplay encryption-signed model that made iOS apps so commercially successful. Palm, WinMo, JavaME, Symbian and others had mobile software before Apple, but none successfully created a store. The people who were asking for native iPhone apps didn't ask for single Walled Garden store curated by Apple with signed encryption to safeguard users. They wanted something like Cydia or Android/Windows Phone Market. Those all harmed users, cheated developers and failed in business. 

    iOS was not a "clear follow up" of Palm PDA in any respect. Every aspect of their success was completely 180 degrees from what Palm was doing. It's absolutely preposterous to say that. Palm went from a Newton-like pressure-stylus full-screen PDA to small screen Treo phones covered with physical buttons! It used an oddball OS, weak CPU, a unique development model etc that was nothing like a desktop computer. iOS was the Mac OS scaled down to a handheld device, fully optimized for touch with no buttons, very similar dev frameworks, nothing like Palm at all. It was scalable, modern and totally new. Palm was a cheaper version of Apple's ambitious Newton failure. 

    You keep going, and I'm not sure what you're arguing with. The article doesn't say Apple invented ML and AR, it says Apple developed and introduced those technologies that no pundits were clamoring for. When they appeared the pundits quibbled with Apple's approach. They were asking for VR Helmets and cloud-based surveillance of users' personal data! They don;'t have original ideas and really know nothing about what's going on. They just repeat what other companies tell them to say. 



    docno42
  • Reply 108 of 124
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:

    knowitall said:

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    Your memory is crap/your username is pretty inaccurate.
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 

    "The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone," Jobs said at WWDC in 2007. "And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, they can send an email, they can look up a location on Google Maps. And guess what? There's no SDK that you need!" 
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-steve-jobs-resisted-apples-app-store-marks-10-years-of-third-party-innovation
    That's wrong. Apple's initial public goal for iPhone apps were web-based apps, but it had developed native code apps for iPod before that and had developed its own development APIs for iPhone, it just needed time to open those up to third-party developers in a controlled, safe manner. Your external vision of what Apple was doing is not evidence that you know what was going on inside Apple. Apple clearly didn't just spin on a dime and go from a web strategy to native iOS apps across 9 months. It spent that time cleaning up the platform to enable an app store that worked as well as iTunes for music.
    docno42
  • Reply 109 of 124
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:

    knowitall said:

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    Your memory is crap/your username is pretty inaccurate.
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 

    "The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone," Jobs said at WWDC in 2007. "And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, they can send an email, they can look up a location on Google Maps. And guess what? There's no SDK that you need!" 
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-steve-jobs-resisted-apples-app-store-marks-10-years-of-third-party-innovation
    That's wrong. Apple's initial public goal for iPhone apps were web-based apps, but it had developed native code apps for iPod before that and had developed its own development APIs for iPhone, it just needed time to open those up to third-party developers in a controlled, safe manner. 
    What's wrong? What Steve Jobs said? 
    Your external vision of what Apple was doing is not evidence that you know what was going on inside Apple. 
    Isn't your vision of what Apple was doing an external one? Yes, I believe it is.

    So you say you asked Steve Jobs about an App Store prior to the iPhone launch. What was his reply? I don't recall you ever mentioning he had plans for the App Store all along, in fact you indicated quite the opposite at the time:
    http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/09/11/six-reasons-why-apple-may-never-open-the-iphone/

    Are you claiming that Mr. Jobs never indicated any such thing about opposing third-party apps on the iPhone even to his biographer, a man who spent untold hours with him? For you to be correct Mr Isaacson would necessarily be writing dishonestly. Why would he? 

    Typically I avoid commenting on what you say in your editorials and the post you're claiming is "Wrong!" (I think) was only meant to show the OP's memory was not as faulty as another member said. 

    I wasn't disagreeing with your editorial at all, in fact didn't even read it beyond a quick skim, but you want to engage with me for some unclear reason. 
    edited January 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 110 of 124
    I really wish those with these histrionics would focus on actual problem areas and not make things up. Thank you DED for pointing out how these histrionics are not helpful or new.
  • Reply 111 of 124
    The article had a lot of good detail points -- but it missed the big picture that's driving this...
    In other words, it talked about the trees but couldn't see the forest.

    That became apparent when it said:
    "Apple has hung the moon for investors for so long now that the idea of the company struggling sent the entire global stock market into a paroxysm of fear and plunging indexes," Swisher wrote. That's colorful language, but what does it mean?"

    The fact is:   for a decade now Apple has been seen as infallible.   A juggernaut that can't lose, can't miss, and can't be beaten.   But suddenly, when a soft spot or crack appears, that image blows up quickly.

    In other words:  It's not the current negative reporting that is at fault (although it is exaggerated), it was the prior reporting that assumed Apple's infallibility. 

    I believe that this may be the best thing could have happened to Apple - because Apple itself has gotten trapped by that image and has been terrified of putting out a less than stellar, less than perfect product.  Now that we now that Apple is fallible and imperfect, we can get on dealing with reality.

    (and, before anybody attacks me for being anti-Apple, nothing could be further from the truth.  Apple may not be perfect, but it's still way far out in front of anybody else out there)

    This is quite wrong. The market has not typically viewed Apple as an infallible company that can't be beaten. If that were the case, they would have a high price to earnings ratio (P/E) which, very roughly speaking, indicates how long the market believes a company will be able to maintain it's current profitability. Apple's modest P/E relative to the other technology giants implies that the market expects Apple's profitability to end or significantly collapse much sooner than it's peers.

    So yes, Apple has spent quite a bit of time as the highest valued company in the world. But that's because they make so much damn profit right now, not because the market believes they will continue doing so far into the future. The market has never believed that about Apple. At it's highest level in the modern era, Apple's P/E barely cracked 20. 
    edited January 2019 gatorguyfastasleepDan_Dilger
  • Reply 112 of 124
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:

    knowitall said:

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    Your memory is crap/your username is pretty inaccurate.
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 

    "The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone," Jobs said at WWDC in 2007. "And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, they can send an email, they can look up a location on Google Maps. And guess what? There's no SDK that you need!" 
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-steve-jobs-resisted-apples-app-store-marks-10-years-of-third-party-innovation
    That's wrong. Apple's initial public goal for iPhone apps were web-based apps, but it had developed native code apps for iPod before that and had developed its own development APIs for iPhone, it just needed time to open those up to third-party developers in a controlled, safe manner. 
    What's wrong? What Steve Jobs said? 
    Your external vision of what Apple was doing is not evidence that you know what was going on inside Apple. 
    Isn't your vision of what Apple was doing an external one? Yes, I believe it is.

    So you say you asked Steve Jobs about an App Store prior to the iPhone launch. What was his reply? I don't recall you ever mentioning he had plans for the App Store all along, in fact you indicated quite the opposite at the time:
    http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/09/11/six-reasons-why-apple-may-never-open-the-iphone/

    Are you claiming that Mr. Jobs never indicated any such thing about opposing third-party apps on the iPhone even to his biographer, a man who spent untold hours with him? For you to be correct Mr Isaacson would necessarily be writing dishonestly. Why would he? 

    Typically I avoid commenting on what you say in your editorials and the post you're claiming is "Wrong!" (I think) was only meant to show the OP's memory was not as faulty as another member said. 

    I wasn't disagreeing with your editorial at all, in fact didn't even read it beyond a quick skim, but you want to engage with me for some unclear reason. 
    I thought Joanna Stern’s Apple Watch 3 video review was real good, but maybe he has it in for her because she discovered the WiFi connectivity error that it shipped with.  
  • Reply 113 of 124
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    edited January 2019 fastasleepDan_Dilger
  • Reply 114 of 124
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    docno42 said:
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    Did you read what DED had to say at the time?  He dismissed an App Store too. I linked his article from the fall of Apple's iPhone launch year, a few months after the phone went on sale. 
    edited January 2019
  • Reply 115 of 124
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    Did you read what DED had to say at the time?  He dismissed an App Store too. I linked his article from the fall of Apple's iPhone launch year, a few months after the phone went on sale. 
    That’s false. There were articles exploring what Apple might do on RoughlyDrafted, both in terms of opening up like the Mac and remaining very restrictive like iPod games had been. In the end, Apple opened up an SDK (as Jobs said Apple was working on the specifics of back at the shareholder meeting in Feb 2007) but it remained far more “closed” than any previous computing platform. 

    You don’t know anything apart from attacking the writer. It’s all you do here, malicious character assasination. That’s why I have zero respect for anything you write 
  • Reply 116 of 124
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,625member
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    Did you read what DED had to say at the time?  He dismissed an App Store too. I linked his article from the fall of Apple's iPhone launch year, a few months after the phone went on sale. 
    That’s false. There were articles exploring what Apple might do on RoughlyDrafted, both in terms of opening up like the Mac and remaining very restrictive like iPod games had been. In the end, Apple opened up an SDK (as Jobs said Apple was working on the specifics of back at the shareholder meeting in Feb 2007) but it remained far more “closed” than any previous computing platform. 

    You don’t know anything apart from attacking the writer. It’s all you do here, malicious character assasination. That’s why I have zero respect for anything you write 
    Hang on. What malicious character assasination? 

    You do realise that gatorguy and many others often skip DED articles completely. I and others really pass on that style of writing that has no balance, is utterly lop-sided and constantly takes stabs at rivals.

    You may see the odd pick up on a piece but more often than not, replies are to the comments not the article or DED himself.

    Some people like it, others hate it, while others just skip them altogether.

    Each to their own, but malicious character assasination is just wrong 


  • Reply 117 of 124
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    k2kw said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:

    knowitall said:

    No, as I recall the App Store was the result of user requests for native programs which Steve Jobs didn’t envision for his web app based iPhone and the need to control the platform.
    Your memory is crap/your username is pretty inaccurate.
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 

    "The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone," Jobs said at WWDC in 2007. "And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, they can send an email, they can look up a location on Google Maps. And guess what? There's no SDK that you need!" 
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/10/the-revolution-steve-jobs-resisted-apples-app-store-marks-10-years-of-third-party-innovation
    That's wrong. Apple's initial public goal for iPhone apps were web-based apps, but it had developed native code apps for iPod before that and had developed its own development APIs for iPhone, it just needed time to open those up to third-party developers in a controlled, safe manner. 
    What's wrong? What Steve Jobs said? 
    Your external vision of what Apple was doing is not evidence that you know what was going on inside Apple. 
    Isn't your vision of what Apple was doing an external one? Yes, I believe it is.

    So you say you asked Steve Jobs about an App Store prior to the iPhone launch. What was his reply? I don't recall you ever mentioning he had plans for the App Store all along, in fact you indicated quite the opposite at the time:
    http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/09/11/six-reasons-why-apple-may-never-open-the-iphone/

    Are you claiming that Mr. Jobs never indicated any such thing about opposing third-party apps on the iPhone even to his biographer, a man who spent untold hours with him? For you to be correct Mr Isaacson would necessarily be writing dishonestly. Why would he? 

    Typically I avoid commenting on what you say in your editorials and the post you're claiming is "Wrong!" (I think) was only meant to show the OP's memory was not as faulty as another member said. 

    I wasn't disagreeing with your editorial at all, in fact didn't even read it beyond a quick skim, but you want to engage with me for some unclear reason. 
    I thought Joanna Stern’s Apple Watch 3 video review was real good, but maybe he has it in for her because she discovered the WiFi connectivity error that it shipped with.  
    Or maybe it’s not a conspiracy and simply the fact that she prints various things that aren’t true, including that Apple “can’t sell” its most popular iPhone model 
  • Reply 118 of 124
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,408member
    avon b7 said:
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    Did you read what DED had to say at the time?  He dismissed an App Store too. I linked his article from the fall of Apple's iPhone launch year, a few months after the phone went on sale. 
    That’s false. There were articles exploring what Apple might do on RoughlyDrafted, both in terms of opening up like the Mac and remaining very restrictive like iPod games had been. In the end, Apple opened up an SDK (as Jobs said Apple was working on the specifics of back at the shareholder meeting in Feb 2007) but it remained far more “closed” than any previous computing platform. 

    You don’t know anything apart from attacking the writer. It’s all you do here, malicious character assasination. That’s why I have zero respect for anything you write 
    Hang on. What malicious character assasination? 

    You do realise that gatorguy and many others often skip DED articles completely. I and others really pass on that style of writing that has no balance, is utterly lop-sided and constantly takes stabs at rivals.

    You may see the odd pick up on a piece but more often than not, replies are to the comments not the article or DED himself.

    Some people like it, others hate it, while others just skip them altogether.

    Each to their own, but malicious character assasination is just wrong 


    They literally said “Did you read what DED had to say at the time?” 
  • Reply 119 of 124
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,625member
    avon b7 said:
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    Did you read what DED had to say at the time?  He dismissed an App Store too. I linked his article from the fall of Apple's iPhone launch year, a few months after the phone went on sale. 
    That’s false. There were articles exploring what Apple might do on RoughlyDrafted, both in terms of opening up like the Mac and remaining very restrictive like iPod games had been. In the end, Apple opened up an SDK (as Jobs said Apple was working on the specifics of back at the shareholder meeting in Feb 2007) but it remained far more “closed” than any previous computing platform. 

    You don’t know anything apart from attacking the writer. It’s all you do here, malicious character assasination. That’s why I have zero respect for anything you write 
    Hang on. What malicious character assasination? 

    You do realise that gatorguy and many others often skip DED articles completely. I and others really pass on that style of writing that has no balance, is utterly lop-sided and constantly takes stabs at rivals.

    You may see the odd pick up on a piece but more often than not, replies are to the comments not the article or DED himself.

    Some people like it, others hate it, while others just skip them altogether.

    Each to their own, but malicious character assasination is just wrong 


    They literally said “Did you read what DED had to say at the time?” 
    And that equates to 'malicious character assasination'?
  • Reply 120 of 124
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    avon b7 said:
    gatorguy said:
    docno42 said:
    gatorguy said:
    His memory was pretty accurate:
    "According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs, the tech guru was opposed to allowing third-party to run natively on iPhone — and when pressured to do so by developers and others, he had a simple answer: Develop your own web apps that will work on the new platform. 
    And yet Apple was there in year 2 with a fleshed out SDK.  That was in obvious development even when Jobs was telling people they didn't need an SDK.  

    Yup, that's unprecedented.  It's not like he once derided watching movies on small screens until Apple magically produced the iPod Video.  He would never downplay something until Apple was ready for it, then reverse and promote the crap out of a previously counter position.

    Yup.  Pressure by developers is what did it.  Because if there was one thing he was really known for was bowing to outside pressure, polling and "wisdom of the crowd".

    Seriously?  Is this really an Apple fanboy site?  

    And before you rely solely on that gawd awful Isaacson biography how about getting familiar with his real life actions, statements and mannerisms.  And maybe reading a few other biographies too.  Isaacson was a horrible biographer for someone like Jobs - he didn't understand tech at all and missed a lot of crucial context. 
    Did you read what DED had to say at the time?  He dismissed an App Store too. I linked his article from the fall of Apple's iPhone launch year, a few months after the phone went on sale. 
    That’s false. There were articles exploring what Apple might do on RoughlyDrafted, both in terms of opening up like the Mac and remaining very restrictive like iPod games had been. In the end, Apple opened up an SDK (as Jobs said Apple was working on the specifics of back at the shareholder meeting in Feb 2007) but it remained far more “closed” than any previous computing platform. 

    You don’t know anything apart from attacking the writer. It’s all you do here, malicious character assasination. That’s why I have zero respect for anything you write 
    Hang on. What malicious character assasination? 

    You do realise that gatorguy and many others often skip DED articles completely. I and others really pass on that style of writing that has no balance, is utterly lop-sided and constantly takes stabs at rivals.

    You may see the odd pick up on a piece but more often than not, replies are to the comments not the article or DED himself.

    Some people like it, others hate it, while others just skip them altogether.

    Each to their own, but malicious character assasination is just wrong 


    They literally said “Did you read what DED had to say at the time?” 
    I assume you don't consider pointing to DED's own editorial pieces and what his opinions were/are as "character assassination? I don't believe his character was impugned in any way by anything I wrote and much less doing so maliciously, tho not sure if he believes he could say the same in his responses to me.  
    edited January 2019
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