Apple promotes photography with 'Shot on iPhone' contest, but is ripping off photographers...

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  • Reply 21 of 103
    kestralkestral Posts: 284member

    99.4 percent of our traffic has no forum presence, nor hit the forums at all. Also, our best estimates suggest that 80% of the forum-goers have ad-blockers on.

    You're welcome to draw your own conclusions from those numbers. But, the only one that can really be drawn is that my comment is completely true.

    The fact is this: AI is profitable enough that you're able to employ people and have some very expensive equipment for production.
    If you weren't making a huge profit off this site, it wouldn't be up and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
  • Reply 22 of 103
    Apple - the ultimate in /r/choosingbeggars :)

    (asking people to do a photo shoot or complete some other skilled task for free but you get the exposure is a common theme of posts to this subreddit)
  • Reply 23 of 103
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,553administrator
    kestral said:

    99.4 percent of our traffic has no forum presence, nor hit the forums at all. Also, our best estimates suggest that 80% of the forum-goers have ad-blockers on.

    You're welcome to draw your own conclusions from those numbers. But, the only one that can really be drawn is that my comment is completely true.

    The fact is this: AI is profitable enough that you're able to employ people and have some very expensive equipment for production.
    If you weren't making a huge profit off this site, it wouldn't be up and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    Yup, we pay our content creators commensurate to what they generate, like one should, which is the entire point of William's editorial here. But, I own my own gear, and so does the video crew. It isn't provided by AppleInsider, and we aren't making "a huge profit" as a company. We have no towering offices in a major metropolitan area, no free breakfasts, and none of that.

    You may note all the gravestones behind us on the Mac-specific news beat. There's a reason for that. If you're doing this job for the big money, you should really reconsider your choices that led you to that point, because it isn't going to happen.

    Plain and simple, the forums cost us money, and a lot of it. We've had internal conversations about closing them down, and right now, the most pervasive argument for retaining them is "Mike likes them, so we can keep them for now." I feel like they're important, probably because I am old, and this is how it's historically been. I consider it a worthwhile venue, but my hopes that they would at least break even are... misplaced, unfortunately. But, I personally like the conversations, including this one, so... here we are.

    So, back to the original point -- your comparison doesn't hold water, at least with AppleInsider's numbers. I can't speak for the Washington Post, though.
    edited January 2019 king editor the gratemuthuk_vanalingamdysamoriagatorguyroundaboutnowmacguiraulcristianjmulchino
  • Reply 24 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,814member
    kestral said:
    tmay said:
    kestral said:
    tmay said:
    That's quite a bit more rant than necessary to make the point, and frankly, the notoriety of being one of the winner's is worth more than the cash.
    Bullshit. Name one situation without Googling where a winner benefitted more than a six figure cash value.
    The mythical six figure cash value...

    Name one situation, without Googling, where a winner in an open photograph competition, without entry fees, received six figures.

    I'll wait.
    Would be glad to, once you answer my question. Apple is one of the largest companies by market cap, revenue and profits. And they can't even pay a photographer. This is exploitation pure and simple and is an insult to the very artists they purport to support.
    If it was the case that Apple didn't commission Professional Photographers for most of its advertising, either in house or via outside Ad House's, you might have a point.

    This is a contest which is intended to be open to any iPhone user, at any skill level. A six figure prize would likely indicate to iPhone users that amateur's would be at a disadvantage, and choose not to participate. 
    edited January 2019 radarthekatericthehalfbeeAppleExposedLordeHawk
  • Reply 25 of 103
    Apple is clear about remuneration, so if you don’t like don’t submit photo.  However, Apple should make a good faith contribution to the artist (pro or otherwise) since this in some small measure the profession.  

    It it is hard to imagine a better ad for talent than Apple’s ad campaign as many artists were aware in the iPod music ads.  To imply the ads are not a terrific gift to the artists is foolish.  I imagine those artists will be strongly letting clients and community know their success and talent.  
  • Reply 26 of 103
    It seems to me that it must have been a slow news day....  Everyone knows how these photo contests work, nothing new here.  Since every one submitting will be an adult they are capable of making their own decision about what to do with their images.  They can submit them for a chance at getting all the accolades after winning, or sell them to one of the many people standing in line offering the mythical "six figures" for the image.  Its their choice.
    radarthekatAppleExposedmuadibe
  • Reply 27 of 103
    Is anybody forcing these photographers to give their pictures to Apple? Is Apple telling them they will get paid, then refusing to pay them? Is this just another example of sensationalism from AppleInsider? "...they [forums] take money and time away from the publication as a whole." Is that a disappointing way to view interactions with customers?
    nousermuadibeAppleExposed
  • Reply 28 of 103
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,553administrator
    Is anybody forcing these photographers to give their pictures to Apple? Is Apple telling them they will get paid, then refusing to pay them? Is this just another example of sensationalism from AppleInsider? "...they [forums] take money and time away from the publication as a whole." Is that a disappointing way to view interactions with customers?
    Feel free to read the rest of the thread, in the proper context.

    The question as posed was AppleInsider should pay forum commenters and the response was in essence, sure, if there was money to be given from that activity to do so, with amplifying information later in the forum thread.
    edited January 2019 dysamoriajmulchino
  • Reply 29 of 103
    As an artist and professional photographer, I find it rather bold to claim that you know enough about the reasons someone would enter this contest; to the point that you recommend nobody submit photographs. Many, many people enter competitions like this for the exposure, the claim to fame, because they are fans of Apple etc. This hold especially true in the age of Instagram, where people submit art and photography to a platform that survives based on those submissions, with the hopes of being "featured" by Instagram, with no expectation of compensation in return. I see this competition as no different than that; especially given that not all photographers are interested in compensation in the first place. A last point, if you recall when Apple first launched the "Shot on iPhone" campaign, they surprised contributors that were selected with a very high quality linen bound archival photo book complete with every selected submission, along with white gloves. It was a truly unexpected and very classy move. I think this article just makes far too many assumptions about the motivations of people who would participate.
    tmayradarthekatnousermuadibeAppleExposedcrossladmacguiLordeHawkapplesnoranges
  • Reply 30 of 103
    I don't see anything wrong with this. To me it was targeted at the average iPhone user that enjoys taking photos. Either submit an entry and move on or don't. But quit whining about it.
    nousermuadibeAppleExposedcrossladmacguiLordeHawk
  • Reply 31 of 103
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,545moderator
    kestral said:
    tmay said:
    kestral said:
    tmay said:
    That's quite a bit more rant than necessary to make the point, and frankly, the notoriety of being one of the winner's is worth more than the cash.
    Bullshit. Name one situation without Googling where a winner benefitted more than a six figure cash value.
    The mythical six figure cash value...

    Name one situation, without Googling, where a winner in an open photograph competition, without entry fees, received six figures.

    I'll wait.
    Would be glad to, once you answer my question. Apple is one of the largest companies by market cap, revenue and profits. And they can't even pay a photographer. This is exploitation pure and simple and is an insult to the very artists they purport to support.
    It’s you who threw up the straw man of six figures.  It’s not on the person who challenged you to answer your question. Hey, if you can’t defend your straw man, just say so and we can burn him down move on.  
    ericthehalfbeeroundaboutnow
  • Reply 32 of 103
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,553administrator
    If you can't see your comment, take a minute to re-read the commenting guidelines, conveniently linked at the bottom of the page. Posting your comment once is fine, it doesn't need to be pasted in again.
    edited January 2019
  • Reply 33 of 103
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,007member
    Being a semi-pro underwater photographer, this discussion strikes a nerve with me as it is just too commonplace.  The iPhone is the best-selling "camera" in the world and I think Apple perpetuated the idea that now anyone with an iPhone can be a "photographer".  It's a tribute to their marketing machine.  They don't pay people for their photos because frankly, they don't need to.  They most likely receive hundreds of thousands of photos (if not more) for this project so why pay?  It's interesting because they obviously pay to have someone go through all the photographs for that final billboard selection.  Why not finish the cycle and pay (or reward) the winner?  Heck, even a nice iMac or new iPhone would be a great gesture at the minimum.

    The "contest" is not meant for professional photographers, and I get that.  It doesn't make it right.  In today's social media centric times, photos are a commodity.  Us folks that invest thousands of dollars in equipment and continue to perfect the art would love to make a living doing just that, and many do but most won't.  If it ever does get better, it will get far worse first.
    muthuk_vanalingamdysamoria
  • Reply 34 of 103
    How much would it cost for a starting or amateur photographer to spread his work around the US and the World, with his name right below the photo?

    That could kickstart someones career...

    You are overthinking this!
    muadibeAppleExposed
  • Reply 35 of 103
    Technology will unfortunately return most artists to being poor beggars. Photographers, filmmakers, writers, musicians will not be able to make a living from their crafts in the future.  Technology will make it so that “everyone is an artist” and your reward is a brief moment in the spotlight (your “15mins of fame” as Warhol predicted) before fading into obscurity and giving the other members of the masses their chance. Who needs to learn craft anymore? The tech engineers take care of that for you. Your job is to be at the right place at the right time, lift up that iPhone and push the button.  You win!
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 36 of 103
    smpcsmpc Posts: 1member
    I value Apple Insider because the contributors keep the content constructive and rant free.  This article does not pass that test. It made me want to delete the app and go somewhere else for my news on Apple. I doubt the subjective opinion on Apple’s intent is right. The opinion expressed just brought unnecessary negative energy into the world. Already enough of that. Let’s just celebrate the competition and the photos.
    nousermuadibeAppleExposedcrosslad
  • Reply 37 of 103
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 922member
    This sort of contest seems to be a trend. People go on "reality" TV shows for no compensation other than being on TV. My own employer has run an internal contest where the winner gets their entry used in corporate promotional material. To me it sounds like companies trying to get people to do work for free - i.e. a rip off.

    I suspect a semi-pro photographer who won Apple's contest would gladly add the fact to their own marketing material. But I wouldn't be surprised if Apple filtered out those sorts of entries - or somehow made the use of Apple's name unlawful.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 38 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,814member
    sflocal said:
    Being a semi-pro underwater photographer, this discussion strikes a nerve with me as it is just too commonplace.  The iPhone is the best-selling "camera" in the world and I think Apple perpetuated the idea that now anyone with an iPhone can be a "photographer".  It's a tribute to their marketing machine.  They don't pay people for their photos because frankly, they don't need to.  They most likely receive hundreds of thousands of photos (if not more) for this project so why pay?  It's interesting because they obviously pay to have someone go through all the photographs for that final billboard selection.  Why not finish the cycle and pay (or reward) the winner?  Heck, even a nice iMac or new iPhone would be a great gesture at the minimum.

    The "contest" is not meant for professional photographers, and I get that.  It doesn't make it right.  In today's social media centric times, photos are a commodity.  Us folks that invest thousands of dollars in equipment and continue to perfect the art would love to make a living doing just that, and many do but most won't.  If it ever does get better, it will get far worse first.
    Photography has indeed been commoditized by these devices, and your complaint is that "folks that invest thousands of dollars in equipment and continue to perfect the art would love to make a living doing just that, and many do but most do not".

    Sounds exactly like Capitalism at work.
  • Reply 39 of 103
    It’s a dang  shame that you guys can only think about money instead of the fact that you’re cool picture is around the world    Shows how greedy everybody is gotten. 
    muadibecrosslad
  • Reply 40 of 103
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,477member

    launfall said:
    So don’t enter the contest. This is too much about nothing. You are, perhaps unaware that EVERY photo you store on Google is usable by them without your consent and no remuneration. You seem to have failed the one thing necessary for any editorial comment: knowledge about your subject. 
    Your whataboutism is noted. We're aware that every photo that you store on Google is usable without renumeration, and it is one reason, amongst many others, that we don't use the service. It isn't relevant to the point, at all.
    Google has clearly stated that your photos remain yours and yours alone. Google does not claim any right to use  YOUR uploaded Google Photos for promotional purposes or monitization, nor have they done so. Not even once. Those that claim otherwise haven't taken the time to check the facts. 
    edited January 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
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