Apple,you are business and while holding privacy Ethics torch, at the end of day you are a business to make money for shareholders and employees. Stop this die-hard privacy triumph. Most people outside USA(may be some Europeans) don't even care privacy long as you sell your products and services cheap. Sorry, Money talks,walks, and everything else for most people in world...
How many people on Apple products related websites like Apple-insider,9to5Mac,MacRumers,etc come and say give me privacy at any cost ? Most say, Apple products are expensive even thought they like to own.
No idea where you get that idea about Europeans. After all, the EU gave us GDPR
Yeah, I'm not sure that @wood1208 ; has ever been to Europe or possibly even outside of the US.
Apple,you are business and while holding privacy Ethics torch, at the end of day you are a business to make money for shareholders and employees. Stop this die-hard privacy triumph. Most people outside USA(may be some Europeans) don't even care privacy long as you sell your products and services cheap. Sorry, Money talks,walks, and everything else for most people in world...
How many people on Apple products related websites like Apple-insider,9to5Mac,MacRumers,etc come and say give me privacy at any cost ? Most say, Apple products are expensive even thought they like to own.
We care about privacy very much.
I find the European stance on privacy to be at times taken to the extreme. I'll give an example, My daughter who is in the first grade here in Germany brought home a paper for a school field trip to go ice skating. In the permission slip "packet" was a separate piece of paper from the local TV station who was going to film a five minute segment about the kids ice skating. You had to give your written consent that your kid could be filmed and that was irrespective of if they would even appear in the final video or not. If you wanted to have your kid participate, you had to agree or your kid had to stay behind in the classroom. GDPR is a huge topic here. Most companies of a moderate size even before this regulation had a company "officer" in charge of data privacy. Even rules about the data an employer can collect about it's employees are strict here. Kids aren't allowed to have smart watches in schools if they have the ability to allow a "drop in" out of concern for the child's privacy! Most school functions prohibit the taking of pictures even by the parents out of privacy concerns. Imagine being told as a parent you can't take pictures of your own kid at track and filed day out of privacy concerns. I could literally go on about this issue for pages. The only thing that is true to some extent is the quote about money talks in respects to product (handset) prices. Curiously, as much as the Europeans are concerned about privacy, they buy Andriod devices because of the price and don't seem to be sufficiently convinced to spend more to get devices that are designed with privacy in mind from the beginning. I attribute this to the fact that the general population is just not so tech-savvy as to realize that there are devices available that better align with their ideals on privacy.
Reading that Facebook cheated came as no surprise. Reading that Google has done the same thing disappoints me.
We all know Google's business model. I trade information about my browsing habits for free services. If managed responsibly, it can be successful without being evil. Just allow me to easily select what I share and what I don't in a manner that a dummy like me can understand. I could even accept Google offering its service in tiers based on how much I share. Maybe Google could start offering paid access that keeps the information it collects about me private.
I say "keeps the information it collects about me private" rather than "not collecting information about me" because analyzing my habits is exactly how Google delivers better search results than other sources. I *want* Google to do that, I just want it done in an open, safe, and ethical way.
Google *seems* like a company I want to support, with its willingness to explore imaginative projects beyond the typical (where would vehicle navigation be today without Google's crazy camera cars?). That's why it bothers me when I read stories like this. I don't understand why a company like Google resorts to deception and even overt cheating when it's just not necessary.
Apple,you are business and while holding privacy Ethics torch, at the end of day you are a business to make money for shareholders and employees. Stop this die-hard privacy triumph. Most people outside USA(may be some Europeans) don't even care privacy long as you sell your products and services cheap. Sorry, Money talks,walks, and everything else for most people in world...
How many people on Apple products related websites like Apple-insider,9to5Mac,MacRumers,etc come and say give me privacy at any cost ? Most say, Apple products are expensive even thought they like to own.
No idea where you get that idea about Europeans. After all, the EU gave us GDPR
Yeah, I'm not sure that @wood1208 ; has ever been to Europe or possibly even outside of the US.
Apple,you are business and while holding privacy Ethics torch, at the end of day you are a business to make money for shareholders and employees. Stop this die-hard privacy triumph. Most people outside USA(may be some Europeans) don't even care privacy long as you sell your products and services cheap. Sorry, Money talks,walks, and everything else for most people in world...
How many people on Apple products related websites like Apple-insider,9to5Mac,MacRumers,etc come and say give me privacy at any cost ? Most say, Apple products are expensive even thought they like to own.
We care about privacy very much.
I find the European stance on privacy to be at times taken to the extreme. I'll give an example, My daughter who is in the first grade here in Germany brought home a paper for a school field trip to go ice skating. In the permission slip "packet" was a separate piece of paper from the local TV station who was going to film a five minute segment about the kids ice skating. You had to give your written consent that your kid could be filmed and that was irrespective of if they would even appear in the final video or not. If you wanted to have your kid participate, you had to agree or your kid had to stay behind in the classroom. GDPR is a huge topic here. Most companies of a moderate size even before this regulation had a company "officer" in charge of data privacy. Even rules about the data an employer can collect about it's employees are strict here. Kids aren't allowed to have smart watches in schools if they have the ability to allow a "drop in" out of concern for the child's privacy! Most school functions prohibit the taking of pictures even by the parents out of privacy concerns. Imagine being told as a parent you can't take pictures of your own kid at track and filed day out of privacy concerns. I could literally go on about this issue for pages. The only thing that is true to some extent is the quote about money talks in respects to product (handset) prices. Curiously, as much as the Europeans are concerned about privacy, they buy Andriod devices because of the price and don't seem to be sufficiently convinced to spend more to get devices that are designed with privacy in mind from the beginning. I attribute this to the fact that the general population is just not so tech-savvy as to realize that there are devices available that better align with their ideals on privacy.
Indeed live both in the Netherlands & Germany and I find it quite amusing that many (non-tech/security savvy) people will go Mr. Robot on their laptop cameras, employers, not wanting photos taken and are fanatic privacy freaks, yet bash Apple's "closed" devices and hail Google as the savior from the Apply tyranny 🤪🤯
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How is signing up for the Enterprise Developer Program, coding an App and then making that App available through that same Enterprise certificate considered a "mistake"? This just doesn't happen by accident.
But hey, didn't Google try to claim that writing specific code to take advantage of a Safari exploit to continue tracking also called a "mistake" by them?
If these are mistakes, what does Google consider "intentional"?
Saying that something was a mistake doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't intentional or that it was an accident.
A mistake can be a lapse in judgment or just something that someone did which they realize (either now or then) was wrong. It was a mistake to sell our house when we did. It was a mistake to cheat on my wife.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
It wasn't a scam since users knew upfront what they were signing up for and no encrypted data could have been gathered anyway. The only ones affected were the ones who signed up for it. Google wasn't hiding it or failing to disclose.
What was bad on Google was using an Apple Developer service for something Apple clearly did not permit, yet they did it anyway. If Apple chooses to limit their developer permissions as a result so be it.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
It wasn't a scam since users knew upfront what they were signing up for and no encrypted data could have been gathered anyway. The only ones affected were the ones who signed up for it. Google wasn't hiding it or failing to disclose.
What was bad on Google was using an Apple Developer service for something Apple clearly did not permit, yet they did it anyway. If Apple chooses to limit their developer permissions as a result so be it.
Sorry, but typically these scams are pulled off by offering something without disclosing how they will use and/or abuse the information they collect. You can blame the victim if you want. But I'm glad we have Apple calling bull to the bull.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Stealing somebody's data is no different than stealing their money.
They weren't collecting GPS information. They were collecting and storing user's private data that included IDs, passwords, etc.... The fact that they denied knowing that they had done it and blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (even though the data was still on their servers) proves that they knew it was wrong too -- but just didn't care.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
It wasn't a scam since users knew upfront what they were signing up for and no encrypted data could have been gathered anyway. The only ones affected were the ones who signed up for it. Google wasn't hiding it or failing to disclose.
What was bad on Google was using an Apple Developer service for something Apple clearly did not permit, yet they did it anyway. If Apple chooses to limit their developer permissions as a result so be it.
Sorry, but typically these scams are pulled off by offering something without disclosing how they will use and/or abuse the information they collect.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Stealing somebody's data is no different than stealing their money.
They weren't collecting GPS information. They were collecting and storing user's private data that included IDs, passwords, etc.... The fact that they denied knowing that they had done it and blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (even though the data was still on their servers) proves that they knew it was wrong too -- but just didn't care.
How could Google have stolen user information? They'd need to know the passwords for all those networks, wouldn't they?
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Using SSIDs as a navigation aid is clever! Offering the use of something that just hangs in the air doing nothing as a way to help others find their way around is a great example of community cooperation.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Stealing somebody's data is no different than stealing their money.
They weren't collecting GPS information. They were collecting and storing user's private data that included IDs, passwords, etc.... The fact that they denied knowing that they had done it and blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (even though the data was still on their servers) proves that they knew it was wrong too -- but just didn't care.
How could Google have stolen user information? They'd need to know the passwords for all those networks, wouldn't they?
You would have to ask the European police who prosecuted and convicted them. U.S. authorities ignored it.
For me, it wasn't the theft itself that alarmed me. it was that Google revealed itself to be untrustworthy thieves with no conscience. They never apologized and, to the best of my knowledge, never deleted the stolen data from their servers. I have avoided using anything from them ever since.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Stealing somebody's data is no different than stealing their money.
They weren't collecting GPS information. They were collecting and storing user's private data that included IDs, passwords, etc.... The fact that they denied knowing that they had done it and blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (even though the data was still on their servers) proves that they knew it was wrong too -- but just didn't care.
How could Google have stolen user information? They'd need to know the passwords for all those networks, wouldn't they?
You would have to ask the European police who prosecuted and convicted them. U.S. authorities ignored it.
For me, it wasn't the theft itself that alarmed me. it was that Google revealed itself to be untrustworthy thieves with no conscience. They never apologized and, to the best of my knowledge, never deleted the stolen data from their servers. I have avoided using anything from them ever since.
"The data" was deleted sometime prior to Nov of 2012 as confirmed by the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information, who also said "Google did cooperate in the clarification thereof and publicly admitted having behaved incorrectly. It had never been the intention to store personal data, Google said. But the fact that this nevertheless happened over such a long period of time and to the wide extent established by us allows only one conclusion: that the company internal control mechanisms failed seriously," so says Johannes Caspar, the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information."
My take? At least some Google managers could not have known that snippets of this and that were scooped up in the course of Streets mapping. I don't think they were being honest in claiming it was all a mistake to be blamed on a rogue engineer. What the purpose was no idea, but on some level Google knew it was being done.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Stealing somebody's data is no different than stealing their money.
They weren't collecting GPS information. They were collecting and storing user's private data that included IDs, passwords, etc.... The fact that they denied knowing that they had done it and blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (even though the data was still on their servers) proves that they knew it was wrong too -- but just didn't care.
How could Google have stolen user information? They'd need to know the passwords for all those networks, wouldn't they?
You would have to ask the European police who prosecuted and convicted them. U.S. authorities ignored it.
For me, it wasn't the theft itself that alarmed me. it was that Google revealed itself to be untrustworthy thieves with no conscience. They never apologized and, to the best of my knowledge, never deleted the stolen data from their servers. I have avoided using anything from them ever since.
"The data" was deleted sometime prior to Nov of 2012 as confirmed by the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information, who also said "Google did cooperate in the clarification thereof and publicly admitted having behaved incorrectly. It had never been the intention to store personal data, Google said. But the fact that this nevertheless happened over such a long period of time and to the wide extent established by us allows only one conclusion: that the company internal control mechanisms failed seriously," so says Johannes Caspar, the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information."
My take? At least some Google managers could not have known that snippets of this and that were scooped up in the course of Streets mapping. I don't think they were being honest in claiming it was all a mistake to be blamed on a rogue engineer. What the purpose was no idea, but on some level Google knew it was being done.
Shit like that just bewilders me. Why would an executive or board member WANT to do business that way? What's the advantage over just being forthright and playing nicely with those who choose to co-operate? Does it make them feel like their balls are bigger if they somehow manage to put one over on people? I just don't understand the motivation to be covert and unethical when it isn't even necessary.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Using SSIDs as a navigation aid is clever! Offering the use of something that just hangs in the air doing nothing as a way to help others find their way around is a great example of community cooperation.
Yes, that is true.
But, it's unrelated to the conversation where Google didn't just collect and store SSIDs. They scooped up and stored the data being transmitted over WiFi (and what ever was in it -- including IDs, passwords and other sensitive data).
And, when they got caught, they claimed it was all done without their knowledge by a rogue programmer. But, strangely they neither apologized nor deleted the data from their servers.
That told me everything I needed to know about Google.
Deja Vu from back when Google was caught stealing WiFi data using their mapping cars. At the time, and even afterwards, they blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (LOL...) but, strangely never deleted the millions of terabytes of data from their servers.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
How are you stealing Wifi Data? They were scanning for Wifi sure, but not using your Data. Your Wifi is normally Broadcast that it's out there and allows you to more easily connect to it with your password. Google didn't have anyone's password to log in. I don't see what the issue is.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
Stealing somebody's data is no different than stealing their money.
They weren't collecting GPS information. They were collecting and storing user's private data that included IDs, passwords, etc.... The fact that they denied knowing that they had done it and blamed it on a "rogue programmer" (even though the data was still on their servers) proves that they knew it was wrong too -- but just didn't care.
How could Google have stolen user information? They'd need to know the passwords for all those networks, wouldn't they?
You would have to ask the European police who prosecuted and convicted them. U.S. authorities ignored it.
For me, it wasn't the theft itself that alarmed me. it was that Google revealed itself to be untrustworthy thieves with no conscience. They never apologized and, to the best of my knowledge, never deleted the stolen data from their servers. I have avoided using anything from them ever since.
"The data" was deleted sometime prior to Nov of 2012 as confirmed by the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information, who also said "Google did cooperate in the clarification thereof and publicly admitted having behaved incorrectly. It had never been the intention to store personal data, Google said. But the fact that this nevertheless happened over such a long period of time and to the wide extent established by us allows only one conclusion: that the company internal control mechanisms failed seriously," so says Johannes Caspar, the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information."
My take? At least some Google managers could not have known that snippets of this and that were scooped up in the course of Streets mapping. I don't think they were being honest in claiming it was all a mistake to be blamed on a rogue engineer. What the purpose was no idea, but on some level Google knew it was being done.
Yes, it completely defies credibility that something as massive as this data collection effort could have been done without the blessing of Google management.
And the fact that they denied knowing about it just makes it worse.
But, this is how it is now done: A major company -- be it Google, Facebook or Lehman Brothers -- breaks the law under the knowledge and direction of the executives. And, when they get caught, instead of an executive getting some jail time, the company gets a minor fine (paid for by the shareholders). But, to the company, it's just a cost of doing business.
Prior to 2000, that didn't happen. Enron execs got long jail sentences.
Comments
Exactly.
I find the European stance on privacy to be at times taken to the extreme. I'll give an example, My daughter who is in the first grade here in Germany brought home a paper for a school field trip to go ice skating. In the permission slip "packet" was a separate piece of paper from the local TV station who was going to film a five minute segment about the kids ice skating. You had to give your written consent that your kid could be filmed and that was irrespective of if they would even appear in the final video or not. If you wanted to have your kid participate, you had to agree or your kid had to stay behind in the classroom.
GDPR is a huge topic here. Most companies of a moderate size even before this regulation had a company "officer" in charge of data privacy. Even rules about the data an employer can collect about it's employees are strict here. Kids aren't allowed to have smart watches in schools if they have the ability to allow a "drop in" out of concern for the child's privacy! Most school functions prohibit the taking of pictures even by the parents out of privacy concerns. Imagine being told as a parent you can't take pictures of your own kid at track and filed day out of privacy concerns.
I could literally go on about this issue for pages. The only thing that is true to some extent is the quote about money talks in respects to product (handset) prices. Curiously, as much as the Europeans are concerned about privacy, they buy Andriod devices because of the price and don't seem to be sufficiently convinced to spend more to get devices that are designed with privacy in mind from the beginning. I attribute this to the fact that the general population is just not so tech-savvy as to realize that there are devices available that better align with their ideals on privacy.
We all know Google's business model. I trade information about my browsing habits for free services. If managed responsibly, it can be successful without being evil. Just allow me to easily select what I share and what I don't in a manner that a dummy like me can understand. I could even accept Google offering its service in tiers based on how much I share. Maybe Google could start offering paid access that keeps the information it collects about me private.
I say "keeps the information it collects about me private" rather than "not collecting information about me" because analyzing my habits is exactly how Google delivers better search results than other sources. I *want* Google to do that, I just want it done in an open, safe, and ethical way.
Google *seems* like a company I want to support, with its willingness to explore imaginative projects beyond the typical (where would vehicle navigation be today without Google's crazy camera cars?). That's why it bothers me when I read stories like this. I don't understand why a company like Google resorts to deception and even overt cheating when it's just not necessary.
And, the same here: they stopped using the scam -- but have not deleted any of the data collected by that scam.
A mistake can be a lapse in judgment or just something that someone did which they realize (either now or then) was wrong. It was a mistake to sell our house when we did. It was a mistake to cheat on my wife.
What was bad on Google was using an Apple Developer service for something Apple clearly did not permit, yet they did it anyway. If Apple chooses to limit their developer permissions as a result so be it.
What this Data IS used for is helping with better/faster location tracking. GPS doesn't work everywhere. Maybe you don't have a iPad with GPS which is any iPad without built-in Cell service support. Using a Wifi Database, you can get an idea of where a person is at. You with your cell phone on you are doing the SAME THING Google is doing. You walk around or drive around and you iPhone is picking up the Wifi signals around you. Most have Locks so you need a password to get on that Wifi. But they are broadcasting that they are there. This is what Google was scanning and collecting. I don't see what the big deal over that is? If you want you can actually turn that broadcasting feature of your Wifi router OFF. Now your Network is not broadcasting that it's out there for everyone. That is a security thing you could do. Most people just leave it on, so you can see your own network and log-in easier.
For me, it wasn't the theft itself that alarmed me. it was that Google revealed itself to be untrustworthy thieves with no conscience. They never apologized and, to the best of my knowledge, never deleted the stolen data from their servers. I have avoided using anything from them ever since.
"Google did cooperate in the clarification thereof and publicly admitted having behaved incorrectly. It had never been the intention to store personal data, Google said. But the fact that this nevertheless happened over such a long period of time and to the wide extent established by us allows only one conclusion: that the company internal control mechanisms failed seriously," so says Johannes Caspar, the Hamburg Commissioner for Data Protection and Freedom of Information."
My take? At least some Google managers could not have known that snippets of this and that were scooped up in the course of Streets mapping. I don't think they were being honest in claiming it was all a mistake to be blamed on a rogue engineer. What the purpose was no idea, but on some level Google knew it was being done.
And, when they got caught, they claimed it was all done without their knowledge by a rogue programmer. But, strangely they neither apologized nor deleted the data from their servers.
That told me everything I needed to know about Google.
And the fact that they denied knowing about it just makes it worse.
But, this is how it is now done: A major company -- be it Google, Facebook or Lehman Brothers -- breaks the law under the knowledge and direction of the executives. And, when they get caught, instead of an executive getting some jail time, the company gets a minor fine (paid for by the shareholders). But, to the company, it's just a cost of doing business.
Prior to 2000, that didn't happen. Enron execs got long jail sentences.