Huawei cloning Apple parts, rewarding employees for tech theft

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  • Reply 121 of 132
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    If there is anything illegal going on, I say present charges and get everything out in the air. Does that make sense to you?

    Patience, man.

    I have little doubt that we'll find out soon. Very soon.
    That's fine but I prefer to hear both sides of the story before reaching conclusions and even then there is more perspective to take into account:

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-not-china-is-the-real-threat-to-international-rule-of-law/
    The Globe and Mail is an anti-US rag. Moreover, it's not a serious court case, just a journalist spouting stuff. Journalists can -- and do -- say anything (in countries where such things as free speech are allowed).

    Sure, let's wait to hear both sides. Wait first for the  extradition to be completed (Step 1). The facts will start to roll out. It's going to become very quickly uncomfortable for Huawei (Step 2). My popcorn is ordered.
    You can't commit a crime against an illegal enterprise -- and the world has recognized that the U.S. is on the wrong side of this whole affair.  Several European countries are in the process of establishing their own financial systems independent of the U.S.'s to get around this nonsense.
    Get in touch when that happens. 
    It's happening.   Try to keep up.
    Just making up stuff, aren't you? Show us who is "...establishing their own financial systems independent of the U.S.'s to get around this nonsense..", where, and what the progress is. Just one credible example will do.

    Otherwise, you really should put a lid on it.

    Europe.  I guess Faux didn't report that huh?
    Umm... "Europe" what? Whom? Where? When? What financial systems?

    What is the role of the USD as a reserve currency and how has that changed?

    You have no clue what you're going on about.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 122 of 132
    Dude, that’s China in a nutshell. Their entire economy is one built on theft.
    Apparently you got brainwashed by fake news.
    No, I’ve been there numerous times and have been on many manufacturing factory tours. I know exactly how they play the game.

    What are your qualifications?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 123 of 132
    canadien's only arrested her at the request of the U.S. -- not because there was any evidence of her or Huawei's wrong doing.  
    Apparently, you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "extradition request."

    You can look it up, you know...
    Canadien's only arrested her at the request of the U.S. -- not because there was any evidence of her or Huawei's wrong doing.  
    Of course. That's the point. It wasn't just "a request," but "an extradition request" the meaning of which you still don't seem to understand.

    There are 13 counts of alleged criminal wrong-doing. Here, you can read the formal indictment -- with all the specific and detailed criminal charges -- from the US Government here: https://www.scribd.com/document/398424076/U-S-Indictment-against-Huawei-CFO-Meng-Wanzhou#fullscreen&from_embed

    And, for our additional reading pleasure, here's a second set of DoJ indictments against the Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou based on grand jury proceedings, from a second court: https://www.scribd.com/document/398423815/U-S-Indictment-of-Huawei#from_embed

    Come back and post after you've read these.


    edited February 19 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 124 of 132
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,525member
    First, I wish people who have no idea what they are talking about or do not have first hand knowledge about what is going should stop commenting and trying to make statements of fact which are not accurate.

    Next, the fact people do not understand the difference between developing and applying technology or using already available solutions then applying it in new innovated ways and think this is the same as just replicating exactly what someone else had already done, has never worked in product development. Yes, Apple is not always first but just because you are first does not mean what you did is innovative and people find it has value.

    What people do not understand about Huawei, they have been at this for a very long time, yes they employee lots of people, but those people are not innovating. They are purely copying/reverse engineering. They are worse than Samsung. No one talked about this 20 yrs ago when Huawei almost put Cisco out of business outside the US. Huawei was able to copy Cisco hardware to the point the Huawei hardware could run Cisco software. Huawei completely reversed engineered Cisco switches. I worked in the Telecom hardware industry during this time, and every network hardware company was very concerned about Huawei. During the Dot Com bust in the early 2000's where lots of design engineer were out of jobs. Huawei attempted to hire these folks to learn what they knew. I personally new one of these people who went to China and consulted with Huawei, he said they ran a 24/7 design center which focus on reverse engineering every networking product they could get their hands on, they want him to explain how and why things were designed in a specific way on products he was familiar with. Anyone who think it is any different today is kidding themselves.

    I worked for a different telecom company in the mid 2000's and the company found one of their proprietary communication DSP chips were being knocked off. We design the chip in house and it was fab in the US so it was not like it was transfer to China which happen most of the time. There was Asian competitor making claims their product could do what our product did. We investigated the product and had their communication DSP chip torn apart and we found it was our chip, We knew this since the designer had buried the company logo in the middle of the chip artwork. We traces the thief back to a process engineer who was responsible to how the chip was made. He was a Chinese national, he stole the chip artwork to make the IC. He did not have the original design files so could not remove the logo, but had the artwork and process recipe which allowed any fab in the world with the right technology to make the part. In this case they did not have to reverse engineer the chips, they just stool the design. My company share this information with Chinese authorities and the company that did this disappears. China does not like when one of their companies get caught red handed doing these kinds of things.   

    The other thing people do not understand China generally sees no issue with what they are doing. They believe no one owns anything and everything can be used for the common good. 



    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 125 of 132
    Melab said:
    You mean to tell me knockoffs are stealing from Apple?

    WhodaThunk?!!?!





    Yeah they don't copy Apple at all. /s

    P.S. Funny how they just slapped "MateBook" on their Macbook knockoff.
    I don't see anything so egregious about either of the two phones you present. I know which elements of the design you have in mind, but I don't think they are morally relevant.
    Ok here you go.




    I wonder if the appearance of the fronts of phones should beexpected to naturally converge as the screen-to-body ratio increases.
  • Reply 126 of 132
    Al_ien1 said:
    The US has been doing the same thing for decades. There is a Foriegn Technology Division in WPAFB in Ohio whose purpose is to reverse engineer Foriegn Technology! China has invested untold Billions of dollars in technology while the US has SPENT untold Billions on the military. If America had created the 5G technology first they would be pushing it to countries around the world (for spying as well ) and no one would have heard of Huawei. 
    OK, you China trolls that are showing up in spades. Here's a simple question that I invite any one of you to answer: Name one -- not two, not three, not four, just one -- product or service created/innovated by China in the past, let's say, three decades that has become a global product or service. I dare you to name one.

    I'll wait.
    Supersingular isogeny key exchange.
  • Reply 127 of 132
    Why does China have an obligation to establish intellectual property law that's similar to the kind that exists in the West?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 128 of 132
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,652member
    Melab said:
    Melab said:
    You mean to tell me knockoffs are stealing from Apple?

    WhodaThunk?!!?!





    Yeah they don't copy Apple at all. /s

    P.S. Funny how they just slapped "MateBook" on their Macbook knockoff.
    I don't see anything so egregious about either of the two phones you present. I know which elements of the design you have in mind, but I don't think they are morally relevant.
    Ok here you go.




    I wonder if the appearance of the fronts of phones should beexpected to naturally converge as the screen-to-body ratio increases.
    Yes.

    Notches are a transitional feature. We are already seeing notchless variants and ever increasing screen to body ratios.

    That trio of images is not really representative of anything. Much less what he is trying to imply.

    Phones are rectangular.
    Phones have camera arrays in varying orientations.
    Phones come in colours.
    Some phones have notches.
    Etc.

    There is going to be overlap in designs on occasion as design options are relatively limited. Just look at TVs today.

    What that trio of images doesn't tell you however, is that Xiaomi and Motorola (and the rest) have many phones on the market at the same time and a lot of them wouldn't make it into that trio!

    What is more, they often look like other Android phones!

    Who would have thought it!

    Trends are trends and manufacturers follow what sells.

    Apple only releases two (now three) phones a year. If it released more it could vary designs a little more and they would very probably look like some variant of Android phone.

    The whole 'knock-off' thing is absurd. Especially when you expressly go out hunting for something that shares the same design characteristics as an iPhone and have to wade through designs that have no such resemblance to them just to reach your examples.

    That doesn't mean there aren't deliberate 'copies' on the market or manufacturers that take inspiration from certain models. There are but they also cover Android phones. It isn't 'everyone copies iPhone'.

    This is a design issue and we have always seen it. From tables, chairs, lights, cars etc.

    Obviously in the case of phones, there is a general move to full screen fronts so at first glance there will be even less to differentiate them.

    That means more emphasis is put on the rear and there are a lot of designs out there already and once again there is overlap but this time, and as would be expected, between Android phones.

    Now, by the time Apple's tri-camera offering appears, plenty of Android phones will have them and in plenty of designs. Apple will even have some of those designs in its labs. I do not doubt they have P20 Pros to evaluate and it is possible that Apple could release a design that has already appeared on an Android phone. Lilke I said, designs are limited and will overlap at times. People follow trends and that also leads to more manufacturers picking up on the trends.

    Last year Huawei released the Twilight gradient effect to critical acclaim. By the end of the year many manufacturers had gradient finishes. Huawei has been using special finishes for years now. In fact it wasn't technically the first with a gradient either. It doesn't matter.

    One of the criticisms pointed at Apple was that its designs had become boring. They partly remedied that with the XR which was a step in the right direction and quite nice (apart from the huge bezels) and now we have rumours of frosted glass. Sounds great (as long as it isn't on the front!  :-) .)



  • Reply 129 of 132
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    If there is anything illegal going on, I say present charges and get everything out in the air. Does that make sense to you?

    Patience, man.

    I have little doubt that we'll find out soon. Very soon.
    That's fine but I prefer to hear both sides of the story before reaching conclusions and even then there is more perspective to take into account:

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-not-china-is-the-real-threat-to-international-rule-of-law/
    The Globe and Mail is an anti-US rag. Moreover, it's not a serious court case, just a journalist spouting stuff. Journalists can -- and do -- say anything (in countries where such things as free speech are allowed).

    Sure, let's wait to hear both sides. Wait first for the  extradition to be completed (Step 1). The facts will start to roll out. It's going to become very quickly uncomfortable for Huawei (Step 2). My popcorn is ordered.
    You can't commit a crime against an illegal enterprise -- and the world has recognized that the U.S. is on the wrong side of this whole affair.  Several European countries are in the process of establishing their own financial systems independent of the U.S.'s to get around this nonsense.
    Get in touch when that happens. 
    It's happening.   Try to keep up.
    Just making up stuff, aren't you? Show us who is "...establishing their own financial systems independent of the U.S.'s to get around this nonsense..", where, and what the progress is. Just one credible example will do.

    Otherwise, you really should put a lid on it.

    Europe.  I guess Faux didn't report that huh?
    Umm... "Europe" what? Whom? Where? When? What financial systems?

    What is the role of the USD as a reserve currency and how has that changed?

    You have no clue what you're going on about.
    You have no clue what you're going on about.
  • Reply 130 of 132
    canadien's only arrested her at the request of the U.S. -- not because there was any evidence of her or Huawei's wrong doing.  
    Apparently, you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "extradition request."

    You can look it up, you know...
    Canadien's only arrested her at the request of the U.S. -- not because there was any evidence of her or Huawei's wrong doing.  
    Of course. That's the point. It wasn't just "a request," but "an extradition request" the meaning of which you still don't seem to understand.

    There are 13 counts of alleged criminal wrong-doing. Here, you can read the formal indictment -- with all the specific and detailed criminal charges -- from the US Government here: https://www.scribd.com/document/398424076/U-S-Indictment-against-Huawei-CFO-Meng-Wanzhou#fullscreen&from_embed

    And, for our additional reading pleasure, here's a second set of DoJ indictments against the Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou based on grand jury proceedings, from a second court: https://www.scribd.com/document/398423815/U-S-Indictment-of-Huawei#from_embed

    Come back and post after you've read these.


    What?   Based on Trump's private little war with Iran?   LOL....  
  • Reply 131 of 132
    Melab said:
    Why does China have an obligation to establish intellectual property law that's similar to the kind that exists in the West?
    Good point....
    India for instance supplies the world with cheap prescription medication because their patent laws work differently than ours.   We won't let them export them to Americans -- but the rest of the world benefits greatly from much reduced health care costs.
  • Reply 132 of 132
    This article from the BBC confirms my suspicions that Trump's case against Huawei is mostly a nationalist rant.  That is:   fear of a Chinese company having control over an essential part of our infrastructure (rather than the trash talk of spying and ip theft)   In other words:   it's not about anything going on today or that has gone on.   It's the nationalist's fear that a non-U.S. company will have control of essential infrastructure.  
    ...  Now that is a discussion worth having.   Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we will ever have it.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47305420

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