5G iPhone unlikely until 2020, given Intel modem announcement

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 79
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    Re: 4. Have I missed something, or have Samsung just announced 4 new phones in this years lineup, 10SE, 10S, 10S+ and Galaxy Fold, none of which support 5G?
  • Reply 62 of 79
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,370member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:

    ....
    I've asked this question repeatedly and have yet to see a single person answer - what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of LTE speeds for a smart phone?

    ...
    I will ask the same question:   " what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of what a horse can travel?"

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    You repeatedly make false comparisons and dismiss the question as an excuse for not answering. If the question is so trivial, then by all means answer it. You repeatedly make loud protestations as to the obsolescence of any phone without 5G capabilities, but are completely unwilling or unable to explain why you might use connectivity better than true LTE speed on your smart phone. The only conclusion I can draw is that you don’t have an answer. I will say again, if you have an answer, please give it. If not, stop the complaining. 

    As for 5G not being limited to cell phones, I’m well aware of that, but the current discussion pertains to the expected absence of a 5G modem in the iphone (and how this will undoubtedly doom the iphone and Apple’s entire existence.) I have no opposition to 5G, and I’m sure iPHones will eventually have a 5G modem. Maybe there will even be a legitimate need for it then. Until then, it seems like a pointless spec race with no true impact on actual use.
    I did answer it.   But you insist on proclaiming that 5G has "no actual use" -- probably because Apple won't have it till they can develop their own modem rather than any kind of facts or logic.  Instead you offer fan boy logic:  "If Apple doesn't have it, it's worthless".

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    No, you did not answer it. You specifically stated it was so stupid you wouldn't answer it. If you read my posts, you will see that I'm far from an Apple Fanboy, but I am very practical. And yes, that is exactly what I'm saying - I see no current use for 5G in a cell phone. And again I ask for an example. Are you so daft as to not get that? 
    Seriously, could you not find the answer in a million different places!? Here’s a particularly good one, because it’s pithy and to-the-point. https://www.cnet.com/news/5g-not-just-speed-fifth-generation-wireless-tech-lets-you-do-vr-self-driving-cars-drones-remote/

    The more that important players in the telecom ecosystem get on board, the faster this technology will deploy. There are few more important players in the telecom ecosystem than Apple. It’s really as simply as that.
    Yes - I've seen all of those uses. I'm not performing remote surgery with my iPhone. With the possible exception of VR, none of them involve smart phones. I have read plenty of articles about 5G. all touting the improvements of the technology and listing potential uses. None of which significantly impact the average smart phone user. At this point, every article I read is repeating points made by other articles.

    As I've said, I'm not saying I'm against 5G as a technology, simply saying that its near-term importance for mobile phones is being over hyped. 
    You’re suggesting that autonomous vehicles have no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; drone control has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet-based haptic feedback has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet of things has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case.

    Just one word: wow. 
    I'm not suggesting that at all. Are you suggesting that a self-driving car will connect through my iPhone? Or are you trying to argue that some time within the next 5 years there will be cars that are driven remotely by people using their iPhone while walking around on the cellular network? Autonomous cars will have their own, independent connection. It may well be 5G, but that is independent of what your smartphone has. 

    IOT certainly has iOS uses, but do they need 5G and will they need it in the next 4-5 years? That is the key question. 5 years ago, IOT was being hyped all over the place. Some of the predictions have panned out, some not, but it has been a slow evolution, not an overnight tsunami.

    I can certainly see drone use being a possibility, but even with that but the drones that will use this type of connectivity are not going to be your typical consumer-level machines. (As an aside, people are already flying drones with real-time VR using current technology, so the claim that this requires 5G is dubious.) 

    I've been around long enough to know that I can't see the future, and as the technology advances people will dream up new uses. This will take several years. By the time it becomes relevant, Apple will be putting 5G modems in its phones. I've also been around long enough to know that the predictions blown around by technophiles every time a new technology comes around never come to fruition quickly, if at all. Even If I'm wrong about all of these technologies using 5G, there will need to be wide-spread, consistent 5G coverage before the technology becomes essential. That's not going to happen quickly.

    If you are absolutely convinced that not having a 5G modem in your cell phone by 2020 is going to destroy your world, then you'd best start preparing for a platform switch. I still maintain that such preparations are wholly unnecessary.


  • Reply 63 of 79
    crosslad said:
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    Re: 4. Have I missed something, or have Samsung just announced 4 new phones in this years lineup, 10SE, 10S, 10S+ and Galaxy Fold, none of which support 5G?
    Apple’s next phone won’t be out until this October. That’s still eight months away. 

    Moreover, I am guessing that many of the upgrade uncertainty issues we’re discussing here will bedevil all of Samsung’s phones released this year as well. In fact, this is something to which Apple should be — and I am assuming is — paying close attention.

    That aside, the last thing Apple should be bothering with is what that theiving company Samsung is up to. 
  • Reply 64 of 79
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    All true.   But:
    1)  Going to Huawei chips would get a TrumpTweet raging about MAGA.
    2)  Developing their own could take a very long time -- at which time iPhones could have permanently lost their glitter.

    Apple and Qualcomm have teamed up to paint themselves into a corner here.

    (As for Huawei:  They have said that Trump's raging and trash talk is not a major concern for them:   If Trump manages to block them from the U.S. market, they still have the rest of the world.  So Apple's choice is whether to support Trump or their product.  One option might be for them to license Huawei's technology and manufacture it themselves -- but that assumes that Huawei would do that.)
  • Reply 65 of 79
    MplsP said:

    Alchemy said:
    MplsP said:

    I've asked this question repeatedly and have yet to see a single person answer - what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of LTE speeds for a smart phone? Yes, 5G is theoretically faster, but LTE is fast enough for everything you do on a smart phone. It has lower latency, but latency isn't an issue for smart phone use either. It has higher bandwidth, but the majority of the time, the wireless bandwidth isn't the limiting factor. So I'm left to see 5g as a transition to something that allows future growth but has no current or near-term real-world use. 
    It is foolish to assume that just because you don't see a real need doesn't mean that it will not be utilized.  No one could image using a phone for real time streaming of videos just a few years ago.

    There are real needs and perceived needs (or wants).  Do people really need mini video clips for ever picture they take, do they need bokeh effect on their pictures, do they need to video conference multiple friends, etc....  It all comes down to marketing the latest technology when you are expecting people to pay $1,000+ for a phone.  People need to feel that their old phone is no longer good enough and that they "need" the latest technology.  The next big jump in technology (out side of camera tricks) is 5G.  People hold onto their phones for several years and they will not be interested upgrading to the next iPhone if it is considered obsolete.  It will be considered obsolete if it doesn't have 5G, because customers have been told it is coming soon.
    I don't deny that some heretofore unconsidered application may arise. There are plenty of examples of that in technology. My point is that there is no current use. 5G is not a technology that is rolling out to finally make cellphones do what people have been trying to do but haven't been able to because of technology limitations. That being the case, any future, real-world uses for the technology in cell phones will take at least a few years to develop and won't even start to develop until there is some semblance of availability of 5G. We're looking at at least mid to late 2020, likely 2021 at the earliest for that to happen, any of these unknown uses will likely not become widespread until 2022 or 2023 at the earliest. at that point, we're 4 years out. Add to that that the 5G standards haven't even been finalized and the fact that the first people who actually (try) to make use of new features like this tend to be early adopters that upgrade their phones more frequently. The end conclusion that I draw is that not only is including a 5G modem in a 2019 phone essentially useless, there may well be drawbacks due to the fact that the standards, technology and chip designs are all still developing. 

    It would seem the biggest reason to include 5G is so you can claim that you have it, not because it's actually necessary. I've been around long enough not to care about things like that.

    Edit: If other countries roll out the technology faster than here in the US, that could change the development equation and would certainly affect the iPhone's marketability in those countries. My view is an admittedly America-Centric one.
    I agree!   If man was meant to fly, God would have given him wings!
  • Reply 66 of 79
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:

    ....
    I've asked this question repeatedly and have yet to see a single person answer - what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of LTE speeds for a smart phone?

    ...
    I will ask the same question:   " what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of what a horse can travel?"

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    You repeatedly make false comparisons and dismiss the question as an excuse for not answering. If the question is so trivial, then by all means answer it. You repeatedly make loud protestations as to the obsolescence of any phone without 5G capabilities, but are completely unwilling or unable to explain why you might use connectivity better than true LTE speed on your smart phone. The only conclusion I can draw is that you don’t have an answer. I will say again, if you have an answer, please give it. If not, stop the complaining. 

    As for 5G not being limited to cell phones, I’m well aware of that, but the current discussion pertains to the expected absence of a 5G modem in the iphone (and how this will undoubtedly doom the iphone and Apple’s entire existence.) I have no opposition to 5G, and I’m sure iPHones will eventually have a 5G modem. Maybe there will even be a legitimate need for it then. Until then, it seems like a pointless spec race with no true impact on actual use.
    I did answer it.   But you insist on proclaiming that 5G has "no actual use" -- probably because Apple won't have it till they can develop their own modem rather than any kind of facts or logic.  Instead you offer fan boy logic:  "If Apple doesn't have it, it's worthless".

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    No, you did not answer it. You specifically stated it was so stupid you wouldn't answer it. If you read my posts, you will see that I'm far from an Apple Fanboy, but I am very practical. And yes, that is exactly what I'm saying - I see no current use for 5G in a cell phone. And again I ask for an example. Are you so daft as to not get that? 
    Seriously, could you not find the answer in a million different places!? Here’s a particularly good one, because it’s pithy and to-the-point. https://www.cnet.com/news/5g-not-just-speed-fifth-generation-wireless-tech-lets-you-do-vr-self-driving-cars-drones-remote/

    The more that important players in the telecom ecosystem get on board, the faster this technology will deploy. There are few more important players in the telecom ecosystem than Apple. It’s really as simply as that.
    Yes - I've seen all of those uses. I'm not performing remote surgery with my iPhone. With the possible exception of VR, none of them involve smart phones. I have read plenty of articles about 5G. all touting the improvements of the technology and listing potential uses. None of which significantly impact the average smart phone user. At this point, every article I read is repeating points made by other articles.

    As I've said, I'm not saying I'm against 5G as a technology, simply saying that its near-term importance for mobile phones is being over hyped. 
    You’re suggesting that autonomous vehicles have no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; drone control has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet-based haptic feedback has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet of things has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case.

    Just one word: wow. 
    ...
    If you are absolutely convinced that not having a 5G modem in your cell phone by 2020 is going to destroy your world, then you'd best start preparing for a platform switch. I still maintain that such preparations are wholly unnecessary.


    Nice black and white argument there....   It's all or none.   It's the favored type of argument of those that have no argument.  (And, usually, when that fails, as it inevitably does, they go on to attack the messenger.)
  • Reply 67 of 79
    crosslad said:
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    Re: 4. Have I missed something, or have Samsung just announced 4 new phones in this years lineup, 10SE, 10S, 10S+ and Galaxy Fold, none of which support 5G?
    Yes, "Galaxy S10 5G"
    https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-s10/5g/

    One could argue that it hasn't been released for sale yet.   But that's fairly common in this industry.   Apple did it with the iPhoneX and others.


  • Reply 68 of 79
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,740member
    crosslad said:
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    Re: 4. Have I missed something, or have Samsung just announced 4 new phones in this years lineup, 10SE, 10S, 10S+ and Galaxy Fold, none of which support 5G?
    Samsung announced the S10 5G   (6.7 inch screen) coming later in the first half of the year.    I doubt if it will sell many this year but it will provide valuable real-world data for modifying future modems.   I am also expecting the Next Note to have 5G.      Hauwei has also announced 5G versions of its Mate X and I'm sure they will be push the deployments of 5G Network equipment in China.    More reasons for the Chinese to take a pass on buying an iPhone.

    Apple spent years building up a giant horde of Cash but they didn't invest enough in acquiring future technologies so they will end up paying more those those tech like OLED. 
    avon b7
  • Reply 69 of 79
    k2kw said:
    crosslad said:
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    Re: 4. Have I missed something, or have Samsung just announced 4 new phones in this years lineup, 10SE, 10S, 10S+ and Galaxy Fold, none of which support 5G?
    Samsung announced the S10 5G   (6.7 inch screen) coming later in the first half of the year.    I doubt if it will sell many this year but it will provide valuable real-world data for modifying future modems.   I am also expecting the Next Note to have 5G.      Hauwei has also announced 5G versions of its Mate X and I'm sure they will be push the deployments of 5G Network equipment in China.    More reasons for the Chinese to take a pass on buying an iPhone.

    Apple spent years building up a giant horde of Cash but they didn't invest enough in acquiring future technologies so they will end up paying more those those tech like OLED. 
    Is Apple slipping to #3 behind both Huawei and Samsung?

    "Huawei breaks price ceiling with $2,600 folding 5G smartphone

    Huawei Technologies unveiled a $2,600 folding smartphone on Sunday which it said was primed for next generation 5G mobile connections, even as the United States campaigns to bar the Chinese company from such networks over security concerns.

    Huawei, the world’s second-largest smartphone vendor after Samsung, said it had taken the lead on developing phones for 5G - which promise super fast internet speeds for consumers and businesses - because it was also involved in developing the networks.

    “This phone is not only for today for 5G but also for future 5G. On all the benchmarks you can see the performance, the speed is the fastest for 5G in the world,” said Richard Yu, head of Huawei’s consumer business group."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-telecoms-mobileworld-launches-huawei/huawei-breaks-price-ceiling-with-2600-folding-5g-smartphone-idUSKCN1QD0L2


    The iPhone XI is already starting to look a little dated....




    edited February 24
  • Reply 70 of 79
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,740member
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    All true.   But:
    1)  Going to Huawei chips would get a TrumpTweet raging about MAGA.
    2)  Developing their own could take a very long time -- at which time iPhones could have permanently lost their glitter.

    Apple and Qualcomm have teamed up to paint themselves into a corner here.

    (As for Huawei:  They have said that Trump's raging and trash talk is not a major concern for them:   If Trump manages to block them from the U.S. market, they still have the rest of the world.  So Apple's choice is whether to support Trump or their product.  One option might be for them to license Huawei's technology and manufacture it themselves -- but that assumes that Huawei would do that.)
    Yes I agree about Trump.    I think that if Apple puts any Huawei chips on their iPhones (even only those intended for China) Trump will have a fit and impose a 25% Tariff on ALL iphones imported to the U.S.   Remember iPhones are foriegn manufactured phones by a foriegn company.   This would probably kill off half the sales in the U.S.

    Yep, intel modems come up short with just Copying 4G LTE.   They won't have the ability to steal the code from Qualcomm now for the 5G.   So I don't really see a decent Intel 5G modem till 2021 and if Apple decides to create their own modem it will take at least as long to avoid stepping on any proprietary IP from either QualComm or Intel.

    Tim Cook has painted Apple into a corner.   Fanboys just don't see it yet.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 71 of 79
    k2kw said:
    crosslad said:
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    Re: 4. Have I missed something, or have Samsung just announced 4 new phones in this years lineup, 10SE, 10S, 10S+ and Galaxy Fold, none of which support 5G?
    Samsung announced the S10 5G   (6.7 inch screen) coming later in the first half of the year.    I doubt if it will sell many this year but it will provide valuable real-world data for modifying future modems.   I am also expecting the Next Note to have 5G.      Hauwei has also announced 5G versions of its Mate X and I'm sure they will be push the deployments of 5G Network equipment in China.    More reasons for the Chinese to take a pass on buying an iPhone.

    Apple spent years building up a giant horde of Cash but they didn't invest enough in acquiring future technologies so they will end up paying more those those tech like OLED. 
    Oops!  I asked if Apple had slipped to #3.  Perhaps I should have wondered if it was #4 -- behine Huawei, Samsung and Xiaomi?

    "China's Xiaomi unveils 5G smartphone for $680

    Prices for Xiaomi’s new offering will start at 599 euros ($679.33) when it hits the market in May, Donovan Sung, Xiaomi’s global head of products, told a trade event in Barcelona, prompting gasps in the hall where it was presented.

    Samsung, which leads the market ahead of Huawei and Apple, launched a 5G phone on Wednesday which it said would be available in early summer, with a $1,980 starting price."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-telecoms-mobileworld-xiaomi/chinas-xiaomi-unveils-5g-smartphone-for-680-idUSKCN1QD0BC



  • Reply 72 of 79
    k2kw said:
    k2kw said:

    So, there will be those column-inches slain, and it will be a debacle, of that there is no doubt. However, it won't be much of one in actuality. It may pose a problem in the fall for iPhone upgrades, but if Apple keeps spending money at the same rate it is minus device construction and never makes another single dollar, it can run for about five years.
    Those column inches will be read by those on Wall St that speak out of what they sit on and APPL will get marked down accordingly.
    The shorters will make a few billion in the process.
    That is the risk that Apple has to face up to. Not us the customer but us, the stockholder are the people they serve.

    I see a lean couple of years for Apple from September 2019 to September 2021.
    If I were Tim Cook (and I'm glad I'm not) I'd be making sure that there was a lot of other product ready to go on sale until they get a full 5G (ratified to the standard) phone on the market.
    But once again, Wall St will ignore everything but the iPhone sales (or lack of...) but at least a steady stream of new product that is not a Phone will keep us (customers) relatively happy and us(stockholders) ready to buy APPL at appropriate times.


    I'm not a holder of APPL stock at this point in time and the above is not investment advice in any way shape or form. It is just my opinion. YMMV


    Apple stopped disclosing unit sales because they knew that declining iphones sales was coming.    They expected growing services and accessories business to cover up the fall in I phone revenue

    Even though I think 5G will take a while to make a significant impact I believe that Apple should switch back to QualComm modems.
     The apple fanboys think that Apple can be late to the party with 5G but show up in the most fashionable dress but I think they are ignoring some points.

    1.    QualComm's X55 modem is built with a 7nm process.   This will probably help battery life giving people who buy 5G phones the false belief that their phone is more better because it's 5G.    I doubt if intel will get their modems that small and energy efficient.   Look at how much they are behind with their i series chips.

    2.    When apple originally implemented LTE they were considered behind the times like now.   But the difference is that Apple implemented LTE using QualComm modems which had the benefit of A.   coming from the developer of LTE technologies and B.  Qualcomm had a couple years of experience with developing modems in Android devices to improve their technology to Apples benefit.     Apple won't have those benefits now.    Intel's 5G modems like their 4G modems will be both late and substandard and when they do come out QualComm's third generation will perform much better than Intel.   If Apple is working to develop their own modems now I'm sure they will eventually get better but don't expect them to be that good right out of the gate.

    3.    Many people believe that the switch to 5G will take years (probably years in the US) but it may actually go faster in other countries like China.    I expect Huawei to push strongly into 5G since they both make the Telecom infrastructure and cell phones.   Big urban centers in China will probably see this shift faster than Americans.   Apple phones will be even more unattractive compared to Android phones and Sales will continue to fall off even more.    Apple could respond by installing Huawei modems in their Chinese models but that would probably undercut the privacy benefits of Apple phones in China even more.

    4.   Even if it takes two years to 5G to penetrate American Cities phone models created this year with the X55 like the Samsung S10 will still be a viable phone when selling two years from now while the iPhone XR2 (Apple's 2019 model) will be fall off in value in 2021 because it won't have 5G.  


    All true.   But:
    1)  Going to Huawei chips would get a TrumpTweet raging about MAGA.
    2)  Developing their own could take a very long time -- at which time iPhones could have permanently lost their glitter.

    Apple and Qualcomm have teamed up to paint themselves into a corner here.

    (As for Huawei:  They have said that Trump's raging and trash talk is not a major concern for them:   If Trump manages to block them from the U.S. market, they still have the rest of the world.  So Apple's choice is whether to support Trump or their product.  One option might be for them to license Huawei's technology and manufacture it themselves -- but that assumes that Huawei would do that.)
    Yes I agree about Trump.    I think that if Apple puts any Huawei chips on their iPhones (even only those intended for China) Trump will have a fit and impose a 25% Tariff on ALL iphones imported to the U.S.   Remember iPhones are foriegn manufactured phones by a foriegn company.   This would probably kill off half the sales in the U.S.

    Yep, intel modems come up short with just Copying 4G LTE.   They won't have the ability to steal the code from Qualcomm now for the 5G.   So I don't really see a decent Intel 5G modem till 2021 and if Apple decides to create their own modem it will take at least as long to avoid stepping on any proprietary IP from either QualComm or Intel.

    Tim Cook has painted Apple into a corner.   Fanboys just don't see it yet.
    It's a circle jerk going on between Apple, Qualcomm, Intel, Huawei and Trump.
    And, while Tim gets dizzy spinning around that circle wondering who's in the lead, others are charging forward at full speed.

    But, with his Thursday Tweets this week on 5G and competition, Trump has opened the door to speculation that he may be backing off of his claims of a security problem and softening his opposition to Huawei.

    I want 5G, and even 6G, technology in the United States as soon as possible. It is far more powerful, faster, and smarter than the current standard. American companies must step up their efforts, or get left behind. There is no reason that we should be lagging behind on.........

    64.6K

    ....something that is so obviously the future. I want the United States to win through competition, not by blocking out currently more advanced technologies. We must always be the leader in everything we do, especially when it comes to the very exciting world of technology!

    57.6K
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/trump-sends-bizarre-6g-tweet-as-china-trade-talks-resume.html

    Huawei obviously has the technology ready and available for implementation today.
    So, it really comes down to a battle between Protectionism or making the latest and greatest technology available to Americans.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 73 of 79
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,740member
    So, it really comes down to a battle between Protectionism or making the latest and greatest technology available to Americans.

    A lot of this comes down to who last spoke to Trump but Trump let Hauwei in down the road Apple could be losing sales, but there already are other Chinese companies like Motorala in the US.    Hauwei is a definite threat internationally!!
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 74 of 79
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,370member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:

    ....
    I've asked this question repeatedly and have yet to see a single person answer - what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of LTE speeds for a smart phone?

    ...
    I will ask the same question:   " what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of what a horse can travel?"

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    You repeatedly make false comparisons and dismiss the question as an excuse for not answering. If the question is so trivial, then by all means answer it. You repeatedly make loud protestations as to the obsolescence of any phone without 5G capabilities, but are completely unwilling or unable to explain why you might use connectivity better than true LTE speed on your smart phone. The only conclusion I can draw is that you don’t have an answer. I will say again, if you have an answer, please give it. If not, stop the complaining. 

    As for 5G not being limited to cell phones, I’m well aware of that, but the current discussion pertains to the expected absence of a 5G modem in the iphone (and how this will undoubtedly doom the iphone and Apple’s entire existence.) I have no opposition to 5G, and I’m sure iPHones will eventually have a 5G modem. Maybe there will even be a legitimate need for it then. Until then, it seems like a pointless spec race with no true impact on actual use.
    I did answer it.   But you insist on proclaiming that 5G has "no actual use" -- probably because Apple won't have it till they can develop their own modem rather than any kind of facts or logic.  Instead you offer fan boy logic:  "If Apple doesn't have it, it's worthless".

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    No, you did not answer it. You specifically stated it was so stupid you wouldn't answer it. If you read my posts, you will see that I'm far from an Apple Fanboy, but I am very practical. And yes, that is exactly what I'm saying - I see no current use for 5G in a cell phone. And again I ask for an example. Are you so daft as to not get that? 
    Seriously, could you not find the answer in a million different places!? Here’s a particularly good one, because it’s pithy and to-the-point. https://www.cnet.com/news/5g-not-just-speed-fifth-generation-wireless-tech-lets-you-do-vr-self-driving-cars-drones-remote/

    The more that important players in the telecom ecosystem get on board, the faster this technology will deploy. There are few more important players in the telecom ecosystem than Apple. It’s really as simply as that.
    Yes - I've seen all of those uses. I'm not performing remote surgery with my iPhone. With the possible exception of VR, none of them involve smart phones. I have read plenty of articles about 5G. all touting the improvements of the technology and listing potential uses. None of which significantly impact the average smart phone user. At this point, every article I read is repeating points made by other articles.

    As I've said, I'm not saying I'm against 5G as a technology, simply saying that its near-term importance for mobile phones is being over hyped. 
    You’re suggesting that autonomous vehicles have no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; drone control has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet-based haptic feedback has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet of things has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case.

    Just one word: wow. 
    ...
    If you are absolutely convinced that not having a 5G modem in your cell phone by 2020 is going to destroy your world, then you'd best start preparing for a platform switch. I still maintain that such preparations are wholly unnecessary.


    Nice black and white argument there....   It's all or none.   It's the favored type of argument of those that have no argument.  (And, usually, when that fails, as it inevitably does, they go on to attack the messenger.)
    Well, whether Apple adds 5G capability to their iPhones or not is black and white - either they have it or they don't. In terms of whether they should have it or not, I have clearly stated my reasons as to why it won't be necessary in the near term and I'm totally comfortable waiting. Hardly black and white. The last sentence was not an attack. It's simply advice to someone who, like yourself, are convinced that the lack of 5G capability in next year's iPhone is going to render the phone useless. 

    To anantksundaram's credit, he actually gave some potential cases where he though 5G would be important. We disagree on whether those will matter for an iPhone user any time soon, but that's fine.

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)

    As for attacking, I'm not sure how that was an attack, but I believe it was you who called me stupid for repeating a question that you refused to answer. I suggest you re-read your post and look in the mirror.

    edited February 24 Soli
  • Reply 75 of 79
    1st1st Posts: 363member
    smart move to delay on deployment of 5G handset.  network is not ready in NA.  Coverage only limited to major cities so far as per announcement of carrier.  delay will possibly reduce the complication of antenna (otherwise, you will need multiple antenna to cover both 4G. LTE, 5G, etc. etc.), so far the directional transmission and battery issues are still need to work out.  Long story short, 5G although it is not in its infancy, but far from ready for full deployment, for ex: "That’s why even though the ultra-futuristic Galaxy Fold has a release date, the S10 5G doesn’t yet.Even though Verizon might argue that it already has a 5G network, it doesn’t have a 5G network for phones. While the company did technically announce its preliminary 5G TF network to replace wired landline internet connections last fall, it’s not compatible with any Verizon mobile 5G devices. (Verizon has actually halted rolling out its home network offering until later in 2019 when the actual 5G standard equipment is ready.)"I'll wait and perfect the hardware and get ready for the 5G application that can showcast the speed superiosity.  (hopefully, not like the 1st gen ATT iphone release... jam up the network and gave ATT a bad name still not be shake off to date).
  • Reply 76 of 79
    nhtnht Posts: 4,456member

    Anyway, regarding the subject material, the wait until 2020 for 5G isn't a bad thing. There isn't going to be a network to speak of, in much the same way that Apple waited until LTE was built out better.
    You are not recognizing that this puts Apple in a real bind. On the one hand, yes, they will incur the additional cost of making the next iPhone compatible with what will surely be a partially implemented network. But on the other hand, many people (like me) will wait until 2020 to upgrade, since there is zero reason to buy something that will be technologically obsolete a year later.

    How should Apple navigate this trade-off right after experiencing one of the toughest years they've had financially thanks to decelerating iPhone sales?
    Lol...2017 Revenues: $229B.  2018 Revenues $265B.  

    You're a terrible concern troll.  Toughest year=Highest revenues ever.

    Horrors of horrors...Apple slipped to $84B in Q1 2019...5% off 2018 and higher than 2015, 2016 or 2017.
    Soli
  • Reply 77 of 79
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:

    ....
    I've asked this question repeatedly and have yet to see a single person answer - what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of LTE speeds for a smart phone?

    ...
    I will ask the same question:   " what legitimate need is there to have speeds in excess of what a horse can travel?"

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    You repeatedly make false comparisons and dismiss the question as an excuse for not answering. If the question is so trivial, then by all means answer it. You repeatedly make loud protestations as to the obsolescence of any phone without 5G capabilities, but are completely unwilling or unable to explain why you might use connectivity better than true LTE speed on your smart phone. The only conclusion I can draw is that you don’t have an answer. I will say again, if you have an answer, please give it. If not, stop the complaining. 

    As for 5G not being limited to cell phones, I’m well aware of that, but the current discussion pertains to the expected absence of a 5G modem in the iphone (and how this will undoubtedly doom the iphone and Apple’s entire existence.) I have no opposition to 5G, and I’m sure iPHones will eventually have a 5G modem. Maybe there will even be a legitimate need for it then. Until then, it seems like a pointless spec race with no true impact on actual use.
    I did answer it.   But you insist on proclaiming that 5G has "no actual use" -- probably because Apple won't have it till they can develop their own modem rather than any kind of facts or logic.  Instead you offer fan boy logic:  "If Apple doesn't have it, it's worthless".

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)
    No, you did not answer it. You specifically stated it was so stupid you wouldn't answer it. If you read my posts, you will see that I'm far from an Apple Fanboy, but I am very practical. And yes, that is exactly what I'm saying - I see no current use for 5G in a cell phone. And again I ask for an example. Are you so daft as to not get that? 
    Seriously, could you not find the answer in a million different places!? Here’s a particularly good one, because it’s pithy and to-the-point. https://www.cnet.com/news/5g-not-just-speed-fifth-generation-wireless-tech-lets-you-do-vr-self-driving-cars-drones-remote/

    The more that important players in the telecom ecosystem get on board, the faster this technology will deploy. There are few more important players in the telecom ecosystem than Apple. It’s really as simply as that.
    Yes - I've seen all of those uses. I'm not performing remote surgery with my iPhone. With the possible exception of VR, none of them involve smart phones. I have read plenty of articles about 5G. all touting the improvements of the technology and listing potential uses. None of which significantly impact the average smart phone user. At this point, every article I read is repeating points made by other articles.

    As I've said, I'm not saying I'm against 5G as a technology, simply saying that its near-term importance for mobile phones is being over hyped. 
    You’re suggesting that autonomous vehicles have no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; drone control has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet-based haptic feedback has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case; internet of things has no mobile phone (or iOS) use case.

    Just one word: wow. 
    ...
    If you are absolutely convinced that not having a 5G modem in your cell phone by 2020 is going to destroy your world, then you'd best start preparing for a platform switch. I still maintain that such preparations are wholly unnecessary.


    Nice black and white argument there....   It's all or none.   It's the favored type of argument of those that have no argument.  (And, usually, when that fails, as it inevitably does, they go on to attack the messenger.)
    Well, whether Apple adds 5G capability to their iPhones or not is black and white - either they have it or they don't. In terms of whether they should have it or not, I have clearly stated my reasons as to why it won't be necessary in the near term and I'm totally comfortable waiting. Hardly black and white. The last sentence was not an attack. It's simply advice to someone who, like yourself, are convinced that the lack of 5G capability in next year's iPhone is going to render the phone useless. 

    To anantksundaram's credit, he actually gave some potential cases where he though 5G would be important. We disagree on whether those will matter for an iPhone user any time soon, but that's fine.

    Some questions are so stupid, they don't deserve an answer.  (And, by the way, nobody is saying that 5G will be restricted to smart phones)

    As for attacking, I'm not sure how that was an attack, but I believe it was you who called me stupid for repeating a question that you refused to answer. I suggest you re-read your post and look in the mirror.

    I am happy for you that you are comfortable waiting till Apple can dig up a supplier willing and able to provide them with 5G modems.   But, the rest of the world will likely be moving on...  Already, just this week, two major manufacturers announced their 5G phones. 
  • Reply 78 of 79
    1st said:
    smart move to delay on deployment of 5G handset.  network is not ready in NA.  Coverage only limited to major cities so far as per announcement of carrier.  delay will possibly reduce the complication of antenna (otherwise, you will need multiple antenna to cover both 4G. LTE, 5G, etc. etc.), so far the directional transmission and battery issues are still need to work out.  Long story short, 5G although it is not in its infancy, but far from ready for full deployment, for ex: "That’s why even though the ultra-futuristic Galaxy Fold has a release date, the S10 5G doesn’t yet.Even though Verizon might argue that it already has a 5G network, it doesn’t have a 5G network for phones. While the company did technically announce its preliminary 5G TF network to replace wired landline internet connections last fall, it’s not compatible with any Verizon mobile 5G devices. (Verizon has actually halted rolling out its home network offering until later in 2019 when the actual 5G standard equipment is ready.)"I'll wait and perfect the hardware and get ready for the 5G application that can showcast the speed superiosity.  (hopefully, not like the 1st gen ATT iphone release... jam up the network and gave ATT a bad name still not be shake off to date).
    That's fine, you can wait.   The rest of the world seems to be moving to 5G.  Even Trump is getting impatient
  • Reply 79 of 79
    1st1st Posts: 363member
    "Even Trump is getting impatient" - hmm, did he do anything? where is his directive to speed up the deployment? where is 5G roadmap of USA (and regional coverage vs carrier vs timeline)? I rest my case.  Action speak louder than tweet.  
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