Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
You're correct that in large effect it may not impact most users, altho those in a big metropolis may regret not having a 5G capable phone 3-5 years down the road even if the real-world benefits haven't completely caught up with the promise.
Regret, how? Having an expensive 5G radio in a device that can't be used despite 5G towers being in the city or how improved LTE-A performance is still the go-to despite 5G being included because 5G is non-existent or too slow to be useful even though it says "5G' on the tab bar?
I can't tell you how many times I've seen people at packed events not be able to get data despite being on 4G/LTE with the resolution is to drop to 3G in Settings and they tell me, "but I have full bars." At least with 5G the bars shouldn't indicate that they're full, but I'm still expecting the system to not be intelligent enough to know that someone walking though an office building where 5G routinely gets blocks as you move will decide that LTE is the best option for that location if there are too many interrupts. Hell, I still hear people going crazy over Apple's long-over-due WiFi Assist feature to intelligently switch to cellular when the WiFi signal is too weak but still connected.
I didn't say they'd necessarily have a wholly legitimate regret Soli
If that was the only areas they were dangerously behind.
We could add keywords such as Pro, hardware refresh, networking gear, screens, servers, NVIDIA and more to the growing list.
Of course door knobs, red colored special interest items and virtue signaling take it's toll on priorities.
Don't forget underwear, farm-fresh produce, space travel, and toaster ovens. In fact, there are an infinite number of things that Apple is just terrible at.
Neither of your listed items has EVER been an Apple product or product category. So your comment is completely irrelevant unless you are under the false impression they are a Walmart competitor.
They used to be leaders in the categories I listed. Now they are laggards or not even participating.
The only benefit I see from 5G is as competition with the local internet provider. That would be fixed 5G not mobile 5G. With mobile I doubt I will notice any real world difference.
Why is everyone in Android world so worried about Apple’s competitiveness? Don’t they dismiss Apple as a marketing company selling overrated and overpriced devices to dumb, non-techie consumers?
If that was the only areas they were dangerously behind.
We could add keywords such as Pro, hardware refresh, networking gear, screens, servers, NVIDIA and more to the growing list.
Of course door knobs, red colored special interest items and virtue signaling take it's toll on priorities.
Don't forget underwear, farm-fresh produce, space travel, and toaster ovens. In fact, there are an infinite number of things that Apple is just terrible at.
Neither of your listed items has EVER been an Apple product or product category. So your comment is completely irrelevant unless you are under the false impression they are a Walmart competitor.
They used to be leaders in the categories I listed. Now they are laggards or not even participating.
Fair enough. My point was that you were criticizing Apple for "trailing" in product lines that they have dropped. Apple isn't in the networking gear market any more, therefore it's not accurate to say they are "dangerously behind" in that area.
Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
The only benefit I see from 5G is as competition with the local internet provider. That would be fixed 5G not mobile 5G. With mobile I doubt I will notice any real world difference.
Exactly.
Everyone touts the higher speed, decreased latency and higher bandwidth, but when they cite applications, they are virtually all applications for devices other than smartphones, and those that conceivably would use a smartphone are not applicable to the overwhelming majority of users.
The other issue that no one seems to be talking about is beyond rolling out millions of 5G towers, the trunk lines and switches that carry and route all this data need to be upgraded. It doesn't matter if a 5G node can connect 1,000 users at gigabit speeds if the connection carrying the data to that node is only capable of 1 MBps and has old, slow switching equipment.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't foresee 5g being necessary on any consistent basis for at least 4-5 years. Even if you stretch out the smart phone cycle to 4 years, you're still not going to run into problems. On top of that, consider the fact that the people who keep their phones 4 years are not the power users or early adopters that are going to need 5g capabilities.
The current need for 5G on a cell phone is a perceived one, not a real one.
If that was the only areas they were dangerously behind.
We could add keywords such as Pro, hardware refresh, networking gear, screens, servers, NVIDIA and more to the growing list.
Of course door knobs, red colored special interest items and virtue signaling take it's toll on priorities.
Nonsense. Apple displays on its Mac and iOS lines are anything but “dangerously!” behind. The Pro as a product being delayed doesn’t amount to much considering its very small segment of Mac users. Networking gear is not not has it ever been an expected, critical part of any PC maker’s business. Servers? Gimme a break, they dropped them because Jobs said “no one is buying them”.
From your comment on virtue signaling I can only assume you mean advocating for equal civil rights for US citizens. Go away.
Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
You're correct that in large effect it may not impact most users, altho those in a big metropolis may regret not having a 5G capable phone 3-5 years down the road even if the real-world benefits haven't completely caught up with the promise.
In 5 years users will regret having 5 year old phones. If they don’t, they aren’t the sort to care about 5G as Soli said.
If that was the only areas they were dangerously behind.
We could add keywords such as Pro, hardware refresh, networking gear, screens, servers, NVIDIA and more to the growing list.
Of course door knobs, red colored special interest items and virtue signaling take it's toll on priorities.
Don't forget underwear, farm-fresh produce, space travel, and toaster ovens. In fact, there are an infinite number of things that Apple is just terrible at.
Neither of your listed items has EVER been an Apple product or product category. So your comment is completely irrelevant unless you are under the false impression they are a Walmart competitor.
They used to be leaders in the categories I listed. Now they are laggards or not even participating.
You forgot laser printers, dude. They used to be boss of that category. Then they realized it wasn’t worth it. Point?
“But but but they used to!” isn’t a very convincing argument for why they should still be selling servers or networking gear.
Nice to see I've upset the two resident trolls who try to be pedantic when they knew exactly what I'm talking about.
I never stated that MWC "itself" was always talking about Apple. It's all the media that reports on all the new devices and technology that drag Apple into every discussion. Do you deny that this is happening?
Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
You're correct that in large effect it may not impact most users, altho those in a big metropolis may regret not having a 5G capable phone 3-5 years down the road even if the real-world benefits haven't completely caught up with the promise.
Absolutely nobody will regret not having 5G as 4G is already faster than what people need.
I remember getting gigabit Internet at home a few years back. Literally 10x faster than the old 100mb service I had. You couldn't tell the difference. Web pages all loaded at about the same speed, all our online games played the same and so on. This is because the limiting factor wasn't how fast MY connection was, it was how fast the servers at the other end would DELIVER content to me. People are dreaming if they think that because you have gigabit speed that a server is going to likewise allocate a full gigabit of bandwidth just to you.
The only time it made a difference if I was downloading multiple things at once (game patches or movies, for example). Only then could I hit my theoretical maximum speed. And who is ever going to be downloading large files like that to their phone?
BTW, in case you missed it, MOST phones sold by everyone yapping about their latest 5G phone are 4G. Samsung released 4 new models of the S10. The 3 most popular are all 4G and the most expensive (and likely least popular seller) has 5G. Does that mean Samsung is stupid for selling brand new phones that DON'T have 5G? Is the S10 a failure because it won't work on 5G in a couple years?
The Mate X is not even a finished product. There are no samples that the attendees can play with. This is not Apple style. They are probably relaxed that Apple is a no show.
Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
You're correct that in large effect it may not impact most users, altho those in a big metropolis may regret not having a 5G capable phone 3-5 years down the road even if the real-world benefits haven't completely caught up with the promise.
Absolutely nobody will regret not having 5G as 4G is already faster than what people need.
I remember getting gigabit Internet at home a few years back. Literally 10x faster than the old 100mb service I had. You couldn't tell the difference. Web pages all loaded at about the same speed, all our online games played the same and so on. This is because the limiting factor wasn't how fast MY connection was, it was how fast the servers at the other end would DELIVER content to me. People are dreaming if they think that because you have gigabit speed that a server is going to likewise allocate a full gigabit of bandwidth just to you.
The only time it made a difference if I was downloading multiple things at once (game patches or movies, for example). Only then could I hit my theoretical maximum speed. And who is ever going to be downloading large files like that to their phone?
BTW, in case you missed it, MOST phones sold by everyone yapping about their latest 5G phone are 4G. Samsung released 4 new models of the S10. The 3 most popular are all 4G and the most expensive (and likely least popular seller) has 5G. Does that mean Samsung is stupid for selling brand new phones that DON'T have 5G? Is the S10 a failure because it won't work on 5G in a couple years?
Great post! Very often, and especially when analyzing systems, you'll find yourself slamming headlong into Theory of Constraints (TOC) influences - yet again. This should no longer be seen as a surprise to anyone.
Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
You're correct that in large effect it may not impact most users, altho those in a big metropolis may regret not having a 5G capable phone 3-5 years down the road even if the real-world benefits haven't completely caught up with the promise.
BTW, in case you missed it, MOST phones sold by everyone yapping about their latest 5G phone are 4G. Samsung released 4 new models of the S10. The 3 most popular are all 4G and the most expensive (and likely least popular seller) has 5G. Does that mean Samsung is stupid for selling brand new phones that DON'T have 5G? Is the S10 a failure because it won't work on 5G in a couple years?
Absolutely agree with Soli's post and yours about the usefulness of 5G in a phone right now.
But we shouldn't worry about how well the Samsung Fold will sell. I'm sure sales will be pretty smooth.
Foldable phones will be flops.. even at the cheaper price, because it is difficult to imagine to most of the people actually carry and use it in their day to day life.
I didn't notice any of the better tech publications saying much about foldable phones other than that it's an interesting gen 0 product and shows that the technology is coming. Apple isn't interested in a small niche of people that want half-baked products. Does anyone seriously think that either of the current foldable devices at almost $2000 are going to sell in any significant numbers? No. Would anyone buying one expect it to be bug free and anything more than a well-working prototype? I hope not. Apple's strategy is to wait until they think the technology is ready for the mass market. Samsung's is to get a small number of new but rough devices in people's hands early, which encourages other handset makers to follow. This is as much a promo for their screen division as anything else.
Yeah the past 15 years taught me to ignore the noise.
iPhone not supporting a standard that no carrier yet supports?!?!!
DOOMED.
Reminds me of when 4G was the latest craze and carriers were passing off unfinished crap as "4G".
It is pretty much a throw everything against the wall approach so they can say, ‘we did it first’.
I am fine with companies pushing new things but when a main selling feature is something that cannot be used or even readily available for 2years?
Whether it matters depends on how long you plan to keep your 2019 iPhone.
Give me a duration.
2 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out, even regulations could still need ironing out, and cities that claim to support 5G will only have 5G in a few locations thereby making it pretty pointless extra for those who are easily tricked by iffy marketing data about how a carrier has "5G in over 30 cities."
5 years? Infrastructure still won't be built out across cities the same way it is now for 4G or to the same extent 3G and 4G were within a 5 year timeframe since we're talking about higher frequencies needing more towers compared to what we saw with 2G to 3G to 4G conversions. Then there are obstacles, like buildings affecting 5G where the fallback will be 4G. Additionally, if we're talking about people that keep a device for 5 years you're not taking about a user that gives a shit about buying a device that might be faster in a select area a half a decade down the road. They simply don't think that way; it's those that buy the latest devices on an annual basic that care most about real world performance specs, which is why these reasonable iPhone buyers aren't going to care an iPhone with 5G that can't be used.
You're correct that in large effect it may not impact most users, altho those in a big metropolis may regret not having a 5G capable phone 3-5 years down the road even if the real-world benefits haven't completely caught up with the promise.
Absolutely nobody will regret not having 5G as 4G is already faster than what people need.
I remember getting gigabit Internet at home a few years back. Literally 10x faster than the old 100mb service I had. You couldn't tell the difference.
Yet you wanted it, and had your 2-year contract internet provider not offered it while another in your area did you may have regretted your choice of provider.
So yeah, some people will regret committing to a non-5G capable smartphone two years from now, whether it makes any real-world difference or not (which I had already mentioned thank you)
Comments
They used to be leaders in the categories I listed. Now they are laggards or not even participating.
Why is everyone in Android world so worried about Apple’s competitiveness? Don’t they dismiss Apple as a marketing company selling overrated and overpriced devices to dumb, non-techie consumers?
Everyone touts the higher speed, decreased latency and higher bandwidth, but when they cite applications, they are virtually all applications for devices other than smartphones, and those that conceivably would use a smartphone are not applicable to the overwhelming majority of users.
The other issue that no one seems to be talking about is beyond rolling out millions of 5G towers, the trunk lines and switches that carry and route all this data need to be upgraded. It doesn't matter if a 5G node can connect 1,000 users at gigabit speeds if the connection carrying the data to that node is only capable of 1 MBps and has old, slow switching equipment.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't foresee 5g being necessary on any consistent basis for at least 4-5 years. Even if you stretch out the smart phone cycle to 4 years, you're still not going to run into problems. On top of that, consider the fact that the people who keep their phones 4 years are not the power users or early adopters that are going to need 5g capabilities.
The current need for 5G on a cell phone is a perceived one, not a real one.
From your comment on virtue signaling I can only assume you mean advocating for equal civil rights for US citizens. Go away.
In 5 years users will regret having 5 year old phones. If they don’t, they aren’t the sort to care about 5G as Soli said.
“But but but they used to!” isn’t a very convincing argument for why they should still be selling servers or networking gear.
I never stated that MWC "itself" was always talking about Apple. It's all the media that reports on all the new devices and technology that drag Apple into every discussion. Do you deny that this is happening?
Absolutely nobody will regret not having 5G as 4G is already faster than what people need.
I remember getting gigabit Internet at home a few years back. Literally 10x faster than the old 100mb service I had. You couldn't tell the difference. Web pages all loaded at about the same speed, all our online games played the same and so on. This is because the limiting factor wasn't how fast MY connection was, it was how fast the servers at the other end would DELIVER content to me. People are dreaming if they think that because you have gigabit speed that a server is going to likewise allocate a full gigabit of bandwidth just to you.
The only time it made a difference if I was downloading multiple things at once (game patches or movies, for example). Only then could I hit my theoretical maximum speed. And who is ever going to be downloading large files like that to their phone?
BTW, in case you missed it, MOST phones sold by everyone yapping about their latest 5G phone are 4G. Samsung released 4 new models of the S10. The 3 most popular are all 4G and the most expensive (and likely least popular seller) has 5G. Does that mean Samsung is stupid for selling brand new phones that DON'T have 5G? Is the S10 a failure because it won't work on 5G in a couple years?
Absolutely agree with Soli's post and yours about the usefulness of 5G in a phone right now.
But we shouldn't worry about how well the Samsung Fold will sell. I'm sure sales will be pretty smooth.
So yeah, some people will regret committing to a non-5G capable smartphone two years from now, whether it makes any real-world difference or not (which I had already mentioned thank you)