Can you name JUST 1 tablet which costs less and provide similar features as iPad Mini 5? Just one would do.
I just brought a band new 9.7" iPad for $250. Seems similar.
edit: and to clarify, all I said was I don't want one at that price. I don't want another tablet either. I would have likely bought a iPad mini to replace my original at $199. Not at 2x that cost. YMMV. It isn't worth it *to me.*
And it's still $399, now for half the storage as before. Talk about DOA release. Who is this for exactly? The person who wants the cheapest way to get Apple support? Oh wait no that's the larger and better and cheaper 9.7" iPad at $329.
So its for the person who wants the smallest and least usable Apple Pencil support? What a joke.
Because no one is going to buy this as just an iPad, because its a terrible buy in that regard.
It comes standard with 64 GB up to 256. The old one had 16 GB and topped out at 128. I am confused as to what you are referring too. Expect the 9.7” to be discontinued in the near future.
If you expect that then you're very confused. The 9.7" iPad is $329 and almost always available at $299 or less in retail. That is a whole other market from iPads starting at $399.
This seems like a very reasonable upgrade for Mini fans. My 1st Gen iPad Mini has started to suffer from battery bloat (which seems to be all too common these days as devices have gotten even thinner) and I was debating getting the 4th Gen only because it was looking like the iPad Mini line was closing in on its end of life life. The 5th Gen comes at a good time and the bang-for-the-buck seems more than decent.
Who likes the Mini? I find the Mini an ideal travel companion, especially if you have to tote a bigass corporate PC with you and want to minimize weight without sacrificing too much functionality. If you've flown anywhere in the past 10 years and are stuck in the cheap seats you've probably noticed that airline tray tables have only gotten smaller. Much smaller. As luck would have it, you've probably found yourself characteristically seated behind the person with their seat reclined at a kneecap snapping angle into your space, so what started out as a small sliver of tray table is now jammed halfway into your gut and using your notebook computer or larger iPad limits you to about 30 degrees of screen extension from its closed-lid position. That's where the Mini shines because it doesn't need much space to spread out and it's also an excellent entertainment device so you don't have to drain your iPhone battery during the flight.
For those of us with the original Apple Pencil, having support for it is a bonus. Ideally Apple would have a single pencil design that works on all Apple products. But Apple isn't ideal or perfect and has to make compromises keep the new and updated products flowing on tight schedules. The lengthy time between the 4th Gen and 5th Gen iPad Mini may seem to defy the "tight schedule" model, but viewed in the context of everything Apple does, and considering the niche-ish appeal of the Mini compared to the several other iPads Apple has shipped during the Mini's lull, it's probably still considered "tight." Apple could have easily declared the Mini dead and moved on without suffering any negative implications. Even Apple has finite resources and cannot bend time.
And it's still $399, now for half the storage as before. Talk about DOA release. Who is this for exactly? The person who wants the cheapest way to get Apple support? Oh wait no that's the larger and better and cheaper 9.7" iPad at $329.
So its for the person who wants the smallest and least usable Apple Pencil support? What a joke.
Because no one is going to buy this as just an iPad, because its a terrible buy in that regard.
Who is this for exactly? - People who preferred a smaller iPad with size around 8" diagonal, and were not happy with larger sized iPads (> 9.5" diagonal) either Pro or Non-Pro models (someone like Avon B7 when the need arises). Those who patiently waited for Apple to update the iPad mini lineup for 3+ years. There were plenty of them, or so we were told. I do think that the new iPad Mini will be a success. It has the right set of features and priced accordingly (at least the base model, leaving aside the upsell options).
That's not a compelling answer, or a compelling market segment. Apple was faced with the choice of discontinuing this product or updating it. The updates themselves are likely saving Apple money in manufacturing, because of economies of scale. There is not much here to compel a user to buy an iPad mini. The A12 makes it relevant, but doesn't make the form factor any more usable.
By all accounts a low-end iPad buyer is much better of buying the entry level iPad for $299 at most retailers, and getting a full size display and Apple Pencil support.
At $399 it quite literally counts everyone out. The $329 iPad ($299 almost everywhere) is a better buy, because it also has Apple Pencil support, but with a larger display.majortom1981 said:
And it's still $399, now for half the storage as before. Talk about DOA release. Who is this for exactly? The person who wants the cheapest way to get Apple support? Oh wait no that's the larger and better and cheaper 9.7" iPad at $329.
So its for the person who wants the smallest and least usable Apple Pencil support? What a joke.
Because no one is going to buy this as just an iPad, because its a terrible buy in that regard.
how is the 9.7 inch ipad better? The new mini has a better processor then the current 9.7 ipad and better front camera and comes with 64 gig storage when the base model 9.7 ipad is 32 gig.
It is a full size display and is $100 cheaper. That makes it better for just about everyone shopping the low end iPad range. I'm not convinced of this alleged market for people who "prefer" the smaller size, and I'm completely unconvinced that anyone would pay a premium for it.
A12 may be better than A10, but not measurably so, and certainly not in any way to someone buying a low end iPad. Same can be said about 32 vs. 64 GB of storage, and one could get 128 GB in a 9.7" iPad for only $29 more (or the same price, at retailers) as the 64 GB iPad mini.
Things that would actually matter to a low end shopper are the price, and feature differentials that change the whole product, like: Does it have Apple Pencil support, or not? Not, "does it have the really fast chip, or the really very fast chip?"
So many people told us (and were so sure of themselves in the process) that the Mini was dead, to get over it, there was no market for it etc.
They were wrong just like they were wrong on so many other things.
Absolutely not. You seem to lack any perspective on these updates. By updating the mini to use the same chip and same display technology and the same storage controllers, etc. that Apple is mass producing for many other iPads.. reduces the cost to maintain this product as part of the lineup. Which is merely an alternative to discontinuing it. That doesn't mean this product is popular at all, or has a market. It means that Apple wanted to keep the product to serve what little interest it has, but to do so they needed to bring it inline and have it benefit from economies of scale. You'll notice they didn't reduce the price at all, even though they cut the storage in half, which they would have done if they cared about the product. They don't. They don't care if it sells in volume at all. Their efforts toward this version have done nothing but reduce their cost at maintaining it.
Finally!! I would have preferred a 128 GB option so there wasn’t as large of a gap, and an iPad with full GPS capability without having to spend more for the cell version to duplicate the capabilities of your phone, but our mini 3’s are the perfect airplane cockpit companion and are getting pretty slow in running increasingly feature-full aviation apps. This should take us out easily another 4-5 years. Ordered 3.
Would like to see an LTE iPad mini that can tie to the Apple Watch and function as a phone (not by 3rd party app, but from a cell carrier) with the newer iPad Pro design and the newer pencil. Yes it would cost more. So what?
Yes it would cost more. So what? - There would be less number of potential buyers to target, which in turn increases the cost for Design/Build/QA efforts to be higher for EACH unit, which in turn increases cost further, making the product unviable.
Apple positions itself as a premium product- that would imply that they market premium products. Just because you would not be part of that market does not mean it does not exist.
If Apple has found a market for $1000 iPhones I am quite sure an iPad mini with similar features in a slightly bigger body would not be much of a stretch.
So many people told us (and were so sure of themselves in the process) that the Mini was dead, to get over it, there was no market for it etc.
They were wrong just like they were wrong on so many other things.
Absolutely not. You seem to lack any perspective on these updates. By updating the mini to use the same chip and same display technology and the same storage controllers, etc. that Apple is mass producing for many other iPads.. reduces the cost to maintain this product as part of the lineup. Which is merely an alternative to discontinuing it. That doesn't mean this product is popular at all, or has a market. It means that Apple wanted to keep the product to serve what little interest it has, but to do so they needed to bring it inline and have it benefit from economies of scale. You'll notice they didn't reduce the price at all, even though they cut the storage in half, which they would have done if they cared about the product. They don't. They don't care if it sells in volume at all. Their efforts toward this version have done nothing but reduce their cost at maintaining it.
Absolutely yes! ;-)
It doesn't really matter why Apple did this (regarding my comment). Some people were adamant the iPad Mini line was dead. Dodo dead! Even hoping for a refresh was met with claims of being delusional.
All those people had to do was include 'IMO' etc but they were telling us smugly that we were basically in dreamland.
Same for the Mini etc.
The full size iPad just feels unwieldy in my hand. Even when I'm sitting comfortably on the sofa at home.
The storage options for this new iPad are nasty - in typical Apple upsell tradition - and I think Phil should be hung from his thumbs (or dingly danglies) for it, but he's going to get the sale from me at some point so he'll be smiling all the way to the hospital.
Having the latest SoC on board is a nice plus. To be honest, it surpasses my expectations. I would have got one even if the screen quality hadn't changed at all.
On size alone, I know there are people here who will go for the Mini. Are we representative of a large swathe of iPad users? Perhaps not but I'm glad someone at Apple pushed for a refresh.
Am I the only one that is disappointed about the memory options available for the new iPad Mini 5? For the base price of $399, the buyer gets only 64 GB of memory. The iPad 4 sells for the exact same price and has 128 GB of memory. The only upgrade option for the "5" is to go to 256 GB which is overkill for most people and decreases battery life.
This same problem exists on the iPhone X and Xs. I get that this is probably the marketing department at Apple figuring out how to squeeze a bit more money out of a potential buyer, but the truth is it delivers significantly less value than the product that proceeded it.
And it's still $399, now for half the storage as before. Talk about DOA release. Who is this for exactly? The person who wants the cheapest way to get Apple support? Oh wait no that's the larger and better and cheaper 9.7" iPad at $329.
So its for the person who wants the smallest and least usable Apple Pencil support? What a joke.
Because no one is going to buy this as just an iPad, because its a terrible buy in that regard.
Who is this for exactly? - People who preferred a smaller iPad with size around 8" diagonal, and were not happy with larger sized iPads (> 9.5" diagonal) either Pro or Non-Pro models (someone like Avon B7 when the need arises). Those who patiently waited for Apple to update the iPad mini lineup for 3+ years. There were plenty of them, or so we were told. I do think that the new iPad Mini will be a success. It has the right set of features and priced accordingly (at least the base model, leaving aside the upsell options).
That's not a compelling answer, or a compelling market segment. Apple was faced with the choice of discontinuing this product or updating it. The updates themselves are likely saving Apple money in manufacturing, because of economies of scale. There is not much here to compel a user to buy an iPad mini. The A12 makes it relevant, but doesn't make the form factor any more usable.
By all accounts a low-end iPad buyer is much better of buying the entry level iPad for $299 at most retailers, and getting a full size display and Apple Pencil support.
You're very confused. The Mini isn't targeted to the low-end buyer. It's targeted to people who want a smaller iPad.
But yeah, I'm sure you have more experience selling millions and millions and millions of these things than Apple does. They're just so clueless. If only they knew what you knew. Oh well.
Am I the only one that is disappointed about the memory options available for the new iPad Mini 5? For the base price of $399, the buyer gets only 64 GB of memory. The iPad 4 sells for the exact same price and has 128 GB of memory. The only upgrade option for the "5" is to go to 256 GB which is overkill for most people and decreases battery life.
This same problem exists on the iPhone X and Xs. I get that this is probably the marketing department at Apple figuring out how to squeeze a bit more money out of a potential buyer, but the truth is it delivers significantly less value than the product that proceeded it.
I think you're thinking of RAM decreasing battery life, not available storage.
Personally I find 64GB storage just fine. I had 128 on my iPhone 7, then downgraded to 64GB for my X, because I don't even use that much (45GB as of this moment). With the advent of iCloud services I simply don't need as much onboard storage. Clearly, I am not alone.
So much for the conspiracy theory. 64GB works great for a lot of people, and if it saves me from having to pay more for storage I'll never use, I'm all for the entry-level storage option being smaller than bigger.
So many people told us (and were so sure of themselves in the process) that the Mini was dead, to get over it, there was no market for it etc.
They were wrong just like they were wrong on so many other things.
Absolutely not. You seem to lack any perspective on these updates. By updating the mini to use the same chip and same display technology and the same storage controllers, etc. that Apple is mass producing for many other iPads.. reduces the cost to maintain this product as part of the lineup. Which is merely an alternative to discontinuing it. That doesn't mean this product is popular at all, or has a market. It means that Apple wanted to keep the product to serve what little interest it has, but to do so they needed to bring it inline and have it benefit from economies of scale. You'll notice they didn't reduce the price at all, even though they cut the storage in half, which they would have done if they cared about the product. They don't. They don't care if it sells in volume at all. Their efforts toward this version have done nothing but reduce their cost at maintaining it.
So your whole point is why Apple didn’t reduce the price while it cut the storage in half. A12 Bionic is nothing, Pencil compatible 120 Hz display is nothing, the highest resolution on an iPad is nothing, P3 is nothing but the storage is everything and shame on you Apple for cutting it down ! Why don’t you write just this: Apple is DOOMED !
It's the Form Factor !! I have a wifi/cellular Mini4. I don't want the bigger iPads. They could be half the price of the Mini and I, like many others I'd bet, would still prefer the smaller form factor.
My M4 seems to "lock up" from time to time. The battery only lasts 4-5 hours of book reading. Drawing maps in ForeFlight (a General Aviation app) is sloooooow.
I am a buyer for the new Mini. They did not "miss" their market.
As much as I love the iPad Mini, this release I a bit disappointing. It simply doesn't justify the $399 starting price imo. What about the Pencil? I'm not sure what purpose it serves to support 2 different pencils, originally hoped gen 2 was simply a replacement to gen 1 with a forced upgrade but now its more Apple Pencil and Apple Pencil Pro. Completely unnecessary, all it does is confuse consumers, give the appearance as a money grab and having another SKU that is seemingly unnecessary.
Hmm yeah couldn’t have anything to do with being cheaper hardware, right? Seriously, it’s common sense: the new pencil is more expensive because it does more, and it’s more expensive to implement on the ipad compared to the old pencil. Thus, if building a non-Pro that is supposed to be cheaper, using the older pencil is cheaper than the new. Do you want newer that does more? Cool, that costs more. Do you want cheaper? Cool, that does less.
Why is this hard?
You talk as if the prices of tech don't come down over time. With the exception of the regularly updated iPhone, Apple's pretty much the only tech company that doesn't discount its prices as products age. This isn't a problem with regular updates, but people start to get pretty uncomfortable about buying products that've been on the market for years and still cost the same. Especially since Apple's erratic cycles mean their "new" two year old iMac could effectively become "old" within a few days. Or maybe it'll be another two years. Who knows? A customer buying an iMac now would get two years less software support than one buying just after an update.
The Pencil 1 has been out for years, and is still the same price it was as it was new. They should have dropped the price to say $69 when the Pencil 2 came out. It's too expensive, especially in an eduction setting. The pricing of the iPad itself is not bad imo.
Of course it comes down in price, which is why using the first-gen Pencil is what makes this device cheaper than using the second-gen. If they had put the brand new second-gen Pencil in, you people would be complaining about the raised price of the iPad Mini. As for the rest of the Mini, it includes new (more expensive) hardware: A12 processor, more RAM, 64GB storage, TrueTone display...all more expensive than the older tech in the Mini. For the same price. Despite inflation.
See the pattern? Apple puts in new stuff and raises the price, people complain. Apple puts in cheaper stuff and keeps the price the same, people complain. What's the common thread? People complaining.
So if you have the latest Pro and also would like a mini for portability you can’t share a Pencil across the devices. How ridiculous.
Almost as ridiculous as your post. Why the hell would someone buy an iPad Pro and then an iPad mini for portability? As if the iPad Pro isn't portable enough? LOL!!!!!!!
So if you have the latest Pro and also would like a mini for portability you can’t share a Pencil across the devices. How ridiculous.
Almost as ridiculous as your post. Why the hell would someone buy an iPad Pro and then an iPad mini for portability? As if the iPad Pro isn't portable enough? LOL!!!!!!!
I have a 12.9” iPad. It’s great but I wouldn’t consider it very portable. Are you suggesting no mini owners also have a bigger iPad?
So if you have the latest Pro and also would like a mini for portability you can’t share a Pencil across the devices. How ridiculous.
Almost as ridiculous as your post. Why the hell would someone buy an iPad Pro and then an iPad mini for portability? As if the iPad Pro isn't portable enough? LOL!!!!!!!
I have a 12.9” iPad. It’s great but I wouldn’t consider it very portable. Are you suggesting no mini owners also have a bigger iPad?
I don’t believe you really think that the 12.9” iPad is not very portable so that it would require an iPad Mini companion for portability !
Comments
edit: and to clarify, all I said was I don't want one at that price. I don't want another tablet either. I would have likely bought a iPad mini to replace my original at $199. Not at 2x that cost. YMMV. It isn't worth it *to me.*
Who likes the Mini? I find the Mini an ideal travel companion, especially if you have to tote a bigass corporate PC with you and want to minimize weight without sacrificing too much functionality. If you've flown anywhere in the past 10 years and are stuck in the cheap seats you've probably noticed that airline tray tables have only gotten smaller. Much smaller. As luck would have it, you've probably found yourself characteristically seated behind the person with their seat reclined at a kneecap snapping angle into your space, so what started out as a small sliver of tray table is now jammed halfway into your gut and using your notebook computer or larger iPad limits you to about 30 degrees of screen extension from its closed-lid position. That's where the Mini shines because it doesn't need much space to spread out and it's also an excellent entertainment device so you don't have to drain your iPhone battery during the flight.
For those of us with the original Apple Pencil, having support for it is a bonus. Ideally Apple would have a single pencil design that works on all Apple products. But Apple isn't ideal or perfect and has to make compromises keep the new and updated products flowing on tight schedules. The lengthy time between the 4th Gen and 5th Gen iPad Mini may seem to defy the "tight schedule" model, but viewed in the context of everything Apple does, and considering the niche-ish appeal of the Mini compared to the several other iPads Apple has shipped during the Mini's lull, it's probably still considered "tight." Apple could have easily declared the Mini dead and moved on without suffering any negative implications. Even Apple has finite resources and cannot bend time.
That's not a compelling answer, or a compelling market segment. Apple was faced with the choice of discontinuing this product or updating it. The updates themselves are likely saving Apple money in manufacturing, because of economies of scale. There is not much here to compel a user to buy an iPad mini. The A12 makes it relevant, but doesn't make the form factor any more usable.
By all accounts a low-end iPad buyer is much better of buying the entry level iPad for $299 at most retailers, and getting a full size display and Apple Pencil support.
At $399 it quite literally counts everyone out. The $329 iPad ($299 almost everywhere) is a better buy, because it also has Apple Pencil support, but with a larger display.majortom1981 said: It is a full size display and is $100 cheaper. That makes it better for just about everyone shopping the low end iPad range. I'm not convinced of this alleged market for people who "prefer" the smaller size, and I'm completely unconvinced that anyone would pay a premium for it.
A12 may be better than A10, but not measurably so, and certainly not in any way to someone buying a low end iPad. Same can be said about 32 vs. 64 GB of storage, and one could get 128 GB in a 9.7" iPad for only $29 more (or the same price, at retailers) as the 64 GB iPad mini.
Things that would actually matter to a low end shopper are the price, and feature differentials that change the whole product, like: Does it have Apple Pencil support, or not? Not, "does it have the really fast chip, or the really very fast chip?"
Bring on the iPhone SE 2!!
Just because you would not be part of that market does not mean it does not exist.
If Apple has found a market for $1000 iPhones I am quite sure an iPad mini with similar features in a slightly bigger body would not be much of a stretch.
It doesn't really matter why Apple did this (regarding my comment). Some people were adamant the iPad Mini line was dead. Dodo dead! Even hoping for a refresh was met with claims of being delusional.
All those people had to do was include 'IMO' etc but they were telling us smugly that we were basically in dreamland.
Same for the Mini etc.
The full size iPad just feels unwieldy in my hand. Even when I'm sitting comfortably on the sofa at home.
The storage options for this new iPad are nasty - in typical Apple upsell tradition - and I think Phil should be hung from his thumbs (or dingly danglies) for it, but he's going to get the sale from me at some point so he'll be smiling all the way to the hospital.
Having the latest SoC on board is a nice plus. To be honest, it surpasses my expectations. I would have got one even if the screen quality hadn't changed at all.
On size alone, I know there are people here who will go for the Mini. Are we representative of a large swathe of iPad users? Perhaps not but I'm glad someone at Apple pushed for a refresh.
This same problem exists on the iPhone X and Xs. I get that this is probably the marketing department at Apple figuring out how to squeeze a bit more money out of a potential buyer, but the truth is it delivers significantly less value than the product that proceeded it.
Anyone else?
But yeah, I'm sure you have more experience selling millions and millions and millions of these things than Apple does. They're just so clueless. If only they knew what you knew. Oh well.
I think you're thinking of RAM decreasing battery life, not available storage.
Personally I find 64GB storage just fine. I had 128 on my iPhone 7, then downgraded to 64GB for my X, because I don't even use that much (45GB as of this moment). With the advent of iCloud services I simply don't need as much onboard storage. Clearly, I am not alone.
So much for the conspiracy theory. 64GB works great for a lot of people, and if it saves me from having to pay more for storage I'll never use, I'm all for the entry-level storage option being smaller than bigger.
My M4 seems to "lock up" from time to time. The battery only lasts 4-5 hours of book reading. Drawing maps in ForeFlight (a General Aviation app) is sloooooow.
I am a buyer for the new Mini. They did not "miss" their market.
Exactly my thoughts. Apple needs to get back to making great products not filling out a spec sheet to meet specific price points.