Now that war is a forgone conclusion the french are trying to deal themselves back in. As I've been saying all along, there's nobody at the UN (well the European members anyway) who doesn't want to lob a few bombs at Iraq, that includes France and Germany. This was never about war and peace to any of the major players, it remains primarily a diplo-politcal excercise to all involved. France wanted to protect their trade arrangements with Iraq, Germany wanted a friend in France, for their own reasons. Now French-Iraqi arrangements are all but dead and France will have to reposition itself to make new post-Saddam dealings. All of a sudden, they're not so opposed to war, though they can't save face if they do a complete 180, hence the "chemical weapons" stipulations, which just about everyone expects Iraq to break.
The ussual gaggle of idiots will trot out the war mongering America wants oil line, you know the one, Bush and Blair, those white devils! But really, if you want to do that, you MUST include Chirac, and actually, you have to move hime to the head of the class, but that's another story, because the real angle has always to do with a chest puffing diplomatic contest, and it is never as simple as oil, though if you must be a simpleton, then be consistent in your naivete, not selective, which seems to be the trend whenever we get around to condemning Americans.
Bush isn't really wrong, he's just embarrasingly late. He has managed to waste every political advantage in organizing this effort. It's a reall good thing the military is as well honed as it is, or he'd have lost this one.
So Matsu, is your above post an attempt at justifying the ridicule and spitting on of the French (because that is what this thread purports to do) or are you just trying to take the opportunity to provide a rational basis for ridiculing and chucking stones at the French?
Germany wanted a friend in France, for their own reasons.
The German position was dictated by the fact that Schroeder had to make a strong anti-war stand, well before the French ever did, in order to get reelected last fall. Not just being anti-war but even whipping things up by appealing to a certain stereotype with words like "Cowboys" and "Adventure" which go beyond generic opposition into politicking. The sort of words that countries like Russia and China are far too pragmatic to use. Schoeder did so and from there there was little turning back.
Yep, but it helps to have friends too, though there is excellent socio-psychological basis for what you argue. Scary actually in its insight. The thinking has been, for a while now, that Germany, post WW2 could not tolerate it is own stories/zeitgiest (sp?). It lay in ruin. They could not speak of their suffering or their accomplishments because of the way naziism had stigmatized them, but unlike 3rd world countries, they had know how, and a tradition of success. You must have a mythology to go along with this, to make it meaningful (no just in a national sense), but their own had become effectively verbotten, so what to do? Import Americanisms. Which had been going on for quite a while. You can only do so much of that, eventually there is a reaction, and being anti-war is as good as being anti-American in this case, for the psycho-political project set in motion. Remember politics is not so much about making people choose as it is about making them proud of their choices, proud to be german, as opposed to an Americanized Germany, which is all the collective psyche woulod tolerate for many years after WW2.
very interesting... I'm off to write about it, every opnce and a while a good idea lands in my lap courtesy of AI, ciao.
The French garner international clout by providing the US with a foil and acting as if they speak for all of Europe. We should just leave them alone. Let them say what they want.
The rednecks need to shut up with all this Freedom Fries and Send the Statue of Liberty Back crap.
Besides, French fries aren't French anyway. A lot of places in the south call them "home fries" which makes more sense and isn't a childish reaction to childish French politics.
The French garner international clout by providing the US with a foil and acting as if they speak for all of Europe. We should just leave them alone. Let them say what they want.
The rednecks need to shut up with all this Freedom Fries and Send the Statue of Liberty Back crap.
Besides, French fries aren't French anyway. A lot of places in the south call them "home fries" which makes more sense and isn't a childish reaction to childish French politics.
How about if you call them fat-ass fries. Eat them up!
Yes. Something like that. Fast food chains should require you to insult yourself to order such a horrible food. Perhaps it would shame my terrible eating habits.
"Would you like to supersize your heart-attack sticks you fat bastard?"
Now that war is a forgone conclusion the french are trying to deal themselves back in. As I've been saying all along, there's nobody at the UN (well the European members anyway) who doesn't want to lob a few bombs at Iraq, that includes France and Germany. This was never about war and peace to any of the major players, it remains primarily a diplo-politcal excercise to all involved. France wanted to protect their trade arrangements with Iraq, Germany wanted a friend in France, for their own reasons. Now French-Iraqi arrangements are all but dead and France will have to reposition itself to make new post-Saddam dealings. All of a sudden, they're not so opposed to war, though they can't save face if they do a complete 180, hence the "chemical weapons" stipulations, which just about everyone expects Iraq to break.
The ussual gaggle of idiots will trot out the war mongering America wants oil line, you know the one, Bush and Blair, those white devils! But really, if you want to do that, you MUST include Chirac, and actually, you have to move hime to the head of the class, but that's another story, because the real angle has always to do with a chest puffing diplomatic contest, and it is never as simple as oil, though if you must be a simpleton, then be consistent in your naivete, not selective, which seems to be the trend whenever we get around to condemning Americans.
Bush isn't really wrong, he's just embarrasingly late. He has managed to waste every political advantage in organizing this effort. It's a reall good thing the military is as well honed as it is, or he'd have lost this one.
What's the saying? ...Diplomacy by other means...
As always, spot on. (Political or otherwise). Yes, Bush is ultimately to blame for all of this diplomatic bungling, but the real culprit for most of the idiocy these last months is Collin Powell. That man has proved himself a real amateur. Either that, or he has deliberately gummed things up, embarrassing the President. Either way, he should be immediately but tactfully removed from his position once this war is over.
Just to let you know that all of this regarding the French and the Americans is having a deeply negative effect on the personal and individual level.
I know a married couple living in the United States who come, respectively, from France and Quebec. They are finding it very difficult to stay in the U.S. due to the insults and quasi-racist comments to which they are subjected because of France's stand on this international issue. They have decided to move.
Perhaps it is the same thing for Americans living in France.
Comments
Originally posted by Addison
Send back the The Statue of Liberty.
How old are you? 5? 6? certainly not older than 7.
The ussual gaggle of idiots will trot out the war mongering America wants oil line, you know the one, Bush and Blair, those white devils! But really, if you want to do that, you MUST include Chirac, and actually, you have to move hime to the head of the class, but that's another story, because the real angle has always to do with a chest puffing diplomatic contest, and it is never as simple as oil, though if you must be a simpleton, then be consistent in your naivete, not selective, which seems to be the trend whenever we get around to condemning Americans.
Bush isn't really wrong, he's just embarrasingly late. He has managed to waste every political advantage in organizing this effort. It's a reall good thing the military is as well honed as it is, or he'd have lost this one.
What's the saying? ...Diplomacy by other means...
France earns as much stone chucking (as long as these are metaphoric stones) as they can handle, just by being French, it doesn't require my imput.
If this thread is a figurative stone, then it's better thrown at the Yankees, not the frogs.
But as long as stone throwing is going on, then lets have big clear targets painted on everyones heads because no one is innocent.
I should have just wrote something funny.
Germany wanted a friend in France, for their own reasons.
The German position was dictated by the fact that Schroeder had to make a strong anti-war stand, well before the French ever did, in order to get reelected last fall. Not just being anti-war but even whipping things up by appealing to a certain stereotype with words like "Cowboys" and "Adventure" which go beyond generic opposition into politicking. The sort of words that countries like Russia and China are far too pragmatic to use. Schoeder did so and from there there was little turning back.
very interesting... I'm off to write about it, every opnce and a while a good idea lands in my lap courtesy of AI, ciao.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I vote we ban them from AI
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I vote we ban them from AI
The French garner international clout by providing the US with a foil and acting as if they speak for all of Europe. We should just leave them alone. Let them say what they want.
The rednecks need to shut up with all this Freedom Fries and Send the Statue of Liberty Back crap.
Besides, French fries aren't French anyway. A lot of places in the south call them "home fries" which makes more sense and isn't a childish reaction to childish French politics.
Originally posted by groverat
The French garner international clout by providing the US with a foil and acting as if they speak for all of Europe. We should just leave them alone. Let them say what they want.
The rednecks need to shut up with all this Freedom Fries and Send the Statue of Liberty Back crap.
Besides, French fries aren't French anyway. A lot of places in the south call them "home fries" which makes more sense and isn't a childish reaction to childish French politics.
How about if you call them fat-ass fries. Eat them up!
"Would you like to supersize your heart-attack sticks you fat bastard?"
"*sniff*... no... *weep*"
"Say it or no food!"
"I'm a fat piggy. *sob*"
Originally posted by Matsu
Now that war is a forgone conclusion the french are trying to deal themselves back in. As I've been saying all along, there's nobody at the UN (well the European members anyway) who doesn't want to lob a few bombs at Iraq, that includes France and Germany. This was never about war and peace to any of the major players, it remains primarily a diplo-politcal excercise to all involved. France wanted to protect their trade arrangements with Iraq, Germany wanted a friend in France, for their own reasons. Now French-Iraqi arrangements are all but dead and France will have to reposition itself to make new post-Saddam dealings. All of a sudden, they're not so opposed to war, though they can't save face if they do a complete 180, hence the "chemical weapons" stipulations, which just about everyone expects Iraq to break.
The ussual gaggle of idiots will trot out the war mongering America wants oil line, you know the one, Bush and Blair, those white devils! But really, if you want to do that, you MUST include Chirac, and actually, you have to move hime to the head of the class, but that's another story, because the real angle has always to do with a chest puffing diplomatic contest, and it is never as simple as oil, though if you must be a simpleton, then be consistent in your naivete, not selective, which seems to be the trend whenever we get around to condemning Americans.
Bush isn't really wrong, he's just embarrasingly late. He has managed to waste every political advantage in organizing this effort. It's a reall good thing the military is as well honed as it is, or he'd have lost this one.
What's the saying? ...Diplomacy by other means...
As always, spot on. (Political or otherwise). Yes, Bush is ultimately to blame for all of this diplomatic bungling, but the real culprit for most of the idiocy these last months is Collin Powell. That man has proved himself a real amateur. Either that, or he has deliberately gummed things up, embarrassing the President. Either way, he should be immediately but tactfully removed from his position once this war is over.
I know a married couple living in the United States who come, respectively, from France and Quebec. They are finding it very difficult to stay in the U.S. due to the insults and quasi-racist comments to which they are subjected because of France's stand on this international issue. They have decided to move.
Perhaps it is the same thing for Americans living in France.
Merci, Monsieur Villepin, et Monsieur Chirac. You are allies of true Americans, as opposed to those treacherous impostors in the White House.
It's too late to stop the madness....but
VIVE LA FRANCE!!!! You are heroes.