Review: 27-Inch iMac 5K with i5 processor - 2012 on the outside, 2019 on the inside

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 62
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,789member
    xyzzy01 said:
    frank777 said:
    Agreed on the port situation. Apple should have found the "courage" to go all USB3/Thunderbolt.

    If a future rev can go all USB-C, add SSD standard and a T2 chip, it would be pretty much perfection.

    Absolutely no. It's a pain on the MacBook Pro, and it would be even more pointless on a desktop where you have plenty of room. If more USB Cs are needed (yes, please) just add extra ports. I'm not looking for pointless pain on premium products.

    And while we're at it:
    • The iMac misses 802.11ax (WiFi 6)
    • Less bezel, more screen please. Massive bezels have gone the way of the dodo, so just replace it with screen - yay, 29 inches in the same space.
    • Revisit the storage situation. Go SSD only, so T2 can be added. Given the price of SSDs, halving the price of 2 TB would still give more than 100% markup on Intel SSDs... Less complexity, less moving parts, less service - and no people who buy a premium priced product with 5400 RPM HD only which will give a really bad impression.
    • I'd pay more for Nvidia graphics... they've beaten AMD handily for many years now. Why can't we get the good stuff?
    • And fix touchid/faceid

    I've wanted to buy a new maxed iMac to replace my 2013 27" maxed out iMac, but the last releases have disappointed me so I'm still waiting...


    There's almost no pain involved. USB-A to USB-C adapters are readily available. It takes 10 seconds to adapt, and encouraging the mass adoption of USB-C is in everyone's interest. (Including iPhone users. :smile: )

    And for the rest:
    • yes, Wifi 6 would be nice.
    • The fat bezels look old school, but the allow the machine to be thinner, which is all Apple cares about.
    • SSDs, T2 and TouchID/FaceID are all a package deal, so we won't get any until we can get all of them.

    Like I said, a future rev of this machine will likely be very, very cool.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 62
    I wish people who whine about the iMac design being "horribly outdated" or "overdue for the much-needed redesign" would just shut up. This gorgeous design is freaking timeless.
    lkrupprandominternetpersoncornchipneilmStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 62
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,838member
    davgreg said:
    "The ports on the back are solid, though in this day and age we are looking for less USB-A and more USB-C on the iMac 5K, if perhaps not the iMac 4K... Considering the mass-market appeal, we get Apple's choice but don't love it. This was ok in 2017, but in 2019 it should really be all USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. We've said it before, ripping off the USB-A band-aid is the only way to go, here."

    Speak for yourself. My MIDI controller, BluRay Drive, Canon scanner, Focal speakers, the charging for my Apple Watch, the charging pad for my iPhone, Pluggable HD thingy and ProBox use USB A type connectors. I already had to buy a couple of USB type B to USB C cables for the new Mac mini because of the shortage of USB A connectors.

    USB A is going to be with us for a long time and not much is crying out for USB C.
    Any of those things that don't have removable cables which can be replaced can easily be adapted by a cheap A-to-C adapter, which you'd put on once and never see again. Or, you can get a single hub with multiple USB-A ports. It's a non-issue.
    cornchipStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 62
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,062member
    MicDorsey said:
    I wish people who whine about the iMac design being "horribly outdated" or "overdue for the much-needed redesign" would just shut up. This gorgeous design is freaking timeless.
    There is an element that exists in Apple tech blog comment sections who are perpetually negative, dismissive, disappointed, dissolute, and generally just mean spirited. Nothing Apple does and no product Apple releases is worthwhile, acceptable, or even just okay. Everything is useless, over priced garbage to this element. My guess is that these types are that way with everything in their lives. The only way to deal with them is to ignore/block them.
    chiaSolimacpluspluscornchipStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 62
    Display is 16:9, not 16:10
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 62

    Eric_WVGG said:

    Also it's a disgrace that Apple still sells it's high priced machines with a hard drive.  
    A disgrace! By my mother's pearls! 

    lol. Fusion is more than fine for most people. You complain like you believe Apple would give you the SSD for free, rather than simply up the entry-level price to cover it, thus forcing everyone to upgrade the option that you want.  If you want performance, absolutely nothing is barring you from paying extra for that option. 
    He's referring to Fusion-less HD-only models. By modern standards, they work so slowly that many would wonder if the computer was broken.

    John Siracusa went on a pretty good rant about these. http://atp.fm/episodes/319
    No he isn't, because that isn't even an option on these 27" iMacs.



    He's complaining that Fusion is the default on this 27" (the article we're reading) instead of upgrading everyone to SSD (which they would build into the price). Tho of course I'm sure what he really wants is the SSD for free.
    No actually he was referring to the 21.5" iMac that has a regular HDD. Fusion is a much better option. 
  • Reply 27 of 62

    Also it's a disgrace that Apple still sells it's high priced machines with a hard drive.  
    A disgrace! By my mother's pearls! 

    lol. Fusion is more than fine for most people. You complain like you believe Apple would give you the SSD for free, rather than simply up the entry-level price to cover it, thus forcing everyone to upgrade the option that you want.  If you want performance, absolutely nothing is barring you from paying extra for that option. 
    It is embarrassing that the iMac still uses a hard drive, which is why it doesn’t have a T2 chip, when all other Macs have SSDs.  The fusion drive is not a substitute.  It is still a spinning hard drive for all your data.  
  • Reply 28 of 62
    citpekscitpeks Posts: 43member

    Also it's a disgrace that Apple still sells it's high priced machines with a hard drive.  
    A disgrace! By my mother's pearls! 

    lol. Fusion is more than fine for most people. You complain like you believe Apple would give you the SSD for free, rather than simply up the entry-level price to cover it, thus forcing everyone to upgrade the option that you want.  If you want performance, absolutely nothing is barring you from paying extra for that option. 
    It is embarrassing that the iMac still uses a hard drive, which is why it doesn’t have a T2 chip, when all other Macs have SSDs.  The fusion drive is not a substitute.  It is still a spinning hard drive for all your data.  

    It's even more embarrassing when the base 1TB Fusion drive has a paltry 32GB SSD gimped down to a 28GB partition.

    I was playing with these new machines at the store last week, and wondering why it took 15 sec to launch an Office app and then found the new projects window unresponsive on the 27" base model  For a company that touts "best user experience" it wasn't a good showing.

    The top 27" config with the 2TB Fusion drive did the same in about five seconds and didn't stall.

    It's 2019, these are premium products carrying premium price tags.  No way to justify it.

    If luxury car makers followed Apple's example, power windows and A/C would be extra cost options.
  • Reply 29 of 62
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,806member
    A beautiful machine made faster… so of course the forum is consumed with people feeling slighted.
    cornchipStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 62
    "Considering the mass-market appeal, we get Apple's choice but don't love it. This was ok in 2017, but in 2019 it should really be all USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. We've said it before, ripping off the USB-A band-aid is the only way to go, here"

    Couldn't agree more. Next year, when my 2017 model comes off AppleCare, I hope there's a 27-inch (or larger!) iMac with at least four USB-C ports. I know the current configuration helps to differentiate the iMac Pro from the run-of-the-mill (*cough*) 27-inch iMac, but I'm already wishing I had more -C ports. At least my Thunderbolt 2 external enclosure is daisy-chainable.
    edited April 9 cgWerkswatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 62

    dewme said:
    The bezels don't bother me except for the fact that whenever I've had to bring my iMac into the Apple Store for repair they inevidably create smudges in the bezels that cannot be removed because they're under the glass.
    You can’t get fingerprints under the glass because the glass is fused to the entire display panel.  If you have a 2009-2011 model, then remove the glass with suction cups, clean it, and reattach it.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 62
    The bezels are there so the Mac can be opened without shattering the display.   If it had thin bezels, you would never be able to open it because the LCD would be too fragile.  Would love it if Apple returned to magnets to hold the entire display unit.  The 2009-2011 was great for the magnets holding the front glass panel, but needed the proper microfiber cloth to make it dust free to place the glass back on.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 62
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,171member
    camc said:
    The question is: will this iMac overheat in a non-conditioned office running Adobe software? The mid-2015 MacBook Pro I'm currently on starts making noisy games with its fans as soon as Acrobat opens. In summer days it overheats on a regular basis, becoming slower and slower...
    I'm stuck with a couple of these machines because I can't figure out if a brand new iMac or a brand new MacBook Pro will do the same – any of you guys has suggestions? Should I go for an iMac Pro instead? (throwing away Adobe suite is not an option)
    When I first got my i7 mini (2018), I was a bit disappointed by how easily it got noisy. So, I started experimenting. I finally settled on just turning off turbo boost most of the time, and have found the machine much more pleasant... and not all that much slower (at least for what I do). Here is the app I use to turn it off: https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/

    Eric_WVGG said:
    He's referring to Fusion-less HD-only models. By modern standards, they work so slowly that many would wonder if the computer was broken.
    John Siracusa went on a pretty good rant about these. http://atp.fm/episodes/319
    Yeah, while a standard HD isn't unworkable, it pretty much impacts (negatively) every aspect of the user experience except storage space. I suppose if you have to have the absolutely lowest price and most storage, then it is what it is. But, I'd buy the base SSD (or even wish they had an ATA SSD based model) and plug in some external HD storage WAY before I'd ever consider a standard HD one. At least then, you narrow down poor UI/UX to just Spotlight and file dialog boxes (as it has to spin-up the HD for some crazy reason).

    Eric_WVGG said:
    frank777 said:
    Agreed on the port situation. Apple should have found the "courage" to go all USB3/Thunderbolt.
    If a future rev can go all USB-C, add SSD standard and a T2 chip, it would be pretty much perfection.
    The iMac Pro really got this right. 4 C's and 4 A's, freakin awesome.
    Yeah, I'm really happy my (2018) mini has the 4 Cs and 2 As. It is really nice just to be able to plug stuff in without mucking about with dongles. I'm not against C, but until there is more C stuff around, it's handy to have some As since there is plenty of space.

    tht said:
    I’ll raise my hands and say I prefer bezels. Don’t understand how some people don’t have their eyes wigged out from trying to focus on the screen versus the background at the edge of the screen, especially in high contrast backgrounds. My work monitor is not along a wow, and when I had my monitor by the window, yowsers the brightness outside sometimes.

    There needs to be some bezel, and while it may look cool and all if it was 3 or 4 mm thick, it makes it little harder to use for me. Heck, On the iPhone, I definitely prefer the sharper edges of the 4 to 5S models over the rounded edges of recent vintage. Maybe 10 to 15 mm bezels would work for me.
    Good point, and mostly the same here. Although, even w/ bezel, I can't stand sitting by a window when it's sunny outside or that kind of thing (need some kind of blinds). The bezel certainly helps, though. And, I find the tiny/no bezel stuff on phones/tablets to be a major pain. If you put them in a case, then doing the gestures is hard to impossible.

    sflocal said:
    What other machine - Mac or Wintel - with decent to big CPU's will run in a non-AC room without the fans eventually kicking in?
    True, though how much they run, how loudly, and how performance/longevity is impacted greatly varies.
    While the climate I'm at doesn't generally run too hot, my machine was making noise with even a slight load until I turned turbo boost off. At the same time, my eGPU is silent, even under 100% load. I understand the cylinder Mac Pro is silent too under load.

    I think the issue here, is that Apple could have redesigned it (as they've already done the work on the iMac Pro) to be silent or much more quiet with these lower-power internals (compared to the iMac Pro).... or, that in general, Apple seems to be favoring tiny to something that runs reasonably quiet/cool.


    camcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 62
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,171member
    frank777 said:
    There's almost no pain involved. USB-A to USB-C adapters are readily available. It takes 10 seconds to adapt, and encouraging the mass adoption of USB-C is in everyone's interest. (Including iPhone users. :smile: )

    And for the rest:
    • yes, Wifi 6 would be nice.
    • The fat bezels look old school, but the allow the machine to be thinner, which is all Apple cares about.
    • SSDs, T2 and TouchID/FaceID are all a package deal, so we won't get any until we can get all of them.

    Like I said, a future rev of this machine will likely be very, very cool.
    re: USB-C - It's more when you have something you just want to quickly/briefly plug in, like a thumb-drive or peripheral that isn't normally connected/yours. This is especially true on laptops, as it more likely to happen.

    Sure, I could get a few adapters to lay on my desk for such occasions, but it's really simple to just reach back and plug it in. Why would anyone NOT want a USB-A port (or a few) if space allows?

    re: rest - my 2018 mini doesn't have TouchID/FaceID, but has SSD and T2. The iMac has SSD. They certainly could have put the T2 in there... the most likely explanation is the Fusion drive, right? Or, just lazy?

    As the article notes (be sure to read the link!), not having the T2 is a really big deal. I didn't know when I bought my mini, but knowing what I do now, I'd say it is a deal-breaker. No way I'd get one of these new iMacs until they add the T2.

    MicDorsey said:
    I wish people who whine about the iMac design being "horribly outdated" or "overdue for the much-needed redesign" would just shut up. This gorgeous design is freaking timeless.
    I hear you there. I friggin' hate when companies redesign something just for the sake of having a so-called 'fresh' look! When you've got a great design... DO NOT update it unless you have something better.

    citpeks said:
    I was playing with these new machines at the store last week, and wondering why it took 15 sec to launch an Office app and then found the new projects window unresponsive on the 27" base model  For a company that touts "best user experience" it wasn't a good showing.

    The top 27" config with the 2TB Fusion drive did the same in about five seconds and didn't stall.
    Yeah, Fusion isn't going to help out in all situations. When you're dealing with bigger files, or first-accessed files, you get HD slow.

    sunman42 said:
    Couldn't agree more. Next year, when my 2017 model comes off AppleCare, I hope there's a 27-inch (or larger!) iMac with at least four USB-C ports. I know the current configuration helps to differentiate the iMac Pro from the run-of-the-mill (*cough*) 27-inch iMac, but I'm already wishing I had more -C ports. At least my Thunderbolt 2 external enclosure is daisy-chainable.
    Oh, I see the issue now... wow, didn't catch that at first. Heck, my (2018) mini has 4 USB-C ports. I thought Apple didn't care about one model cannibalizing the other? (We all know that's BS, but I think that is what they've said.) Yeah, only including 2 USB-C is kinda lame.
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 62
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,789member
    cgWerks said:
    re: rest - my 2018 mini doesn't have TouchID/FaceID, but has SSD and T2. The iMac has SSD. They certainly could have put the T2 in there... the most likely explanation is the Fusion drive, right? Or, just lazy?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Mini doesn't have FaceID/TouchID because it lacks...well...anything to scan your face or thumb.
    cornchipfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 62
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,171member
    frank777 said:
    cgWerks said:
    re: rest - my 2018 mini doesn't have TouchID/FaceID, but has SSD and T2. The iMac has SSD. They certainly could have put the T2 in there... the most likely explanation is the Fusion drive, right? Or, just lazy?
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Mini doesn't have FaceID/TouchID because it lacks...well...anything to scan your face or thumb.
    Heh, yeah. But, my point was that those things aren't necessarily tied together. They could have certainly added the T2 without FaceID or TouchID. The iMac Pro, for example, has the T2, but no TouchID/FaceID.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 62
    Reg WatsonReg Watson Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    2012 on the outside and 2019 on the inside ? And still looks the same as well? You've gotta be kidding me. If it doesn't have 16GB ram and a SSD as minimum in 2019 that's not even in the "maybe" list. Jobs would turning in his grave at how ho hum Apple is these days. 
  • Reply 38 of 62
    camccamc Posts: 24member
    sflocal said:
    camc said:
    The question is: will this iMac overheat in a non-conditioned office running Adobe software? The mid-2015 MacBook Pro I'm currently on starts making noisy games with its fans as soon as Acrobat opens. In summer days it overheats on a regular basis, becoming slower and slower...
    I'm stuck with a couple of these machines because I can't figure out if a brand new iMac or a brand new MacBook Pro will do the same – any of you guys has suggestions? Should I go for an iMac Pro instead? (throwing away Adobe suite is not an option)

    What other machine - Mac or Wintel - with decent to big CPU's will run in a non-AC room without the fans eventually kicking in?
    OK, but, but.... just Acrobat? In a 19 C° environment? Not to mention the fact that I still need to use a machine like that in an open field which of course.... doesn't have Air Conditioning at all..
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 62
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,789member
    cgWerks said:

    Heh, yeah. But, my point was that those things aren't necessarily tied together. They could have certainly added the T2 without FaceID or TouchID. The iMac Pro, for example, has the T2, but no TouchID/FaceID.

    Yeah, they could. But I think there's little reason to do them separately. I think the fact you mentioned (that the iMac Pro doesn't have it) coupled with the preference to wait for SSDs to get cheaper, are actually the reasons they held back.
  • Reply 40 of 62
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,789member
    2012 on the outside and 2019 on the inside ? And still looks the same as well? You've gotta be kidding me. If it doesn't have 16GB ram and a SSD as minimum in 2019 that's not even in the "maybe" list. Jobs would turning in his grave at how ho hum Apple is these days. 

    Everybody agrees with you on the SSD. The RAM, however, is a different story.

    Keep it at 8GB. I wish there was an option with no RAM at all. Smart people don't pay for RAM upgrades from Apple.
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