Apple services & Apple Card 'too late to the game,' HSBC downgrades stock

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  • Reply 21 of 83
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,462member
    The Apple Card will be a huge success as will the Apple Car deployment when it comes (both seemingly late to the game) ... why ...?  Because the people who buy Apple gear are the perfect clients for both services and allow Apple to focus on that massive and fairly affluent market.  I say this about the Apple Car as I believe it will be part of an Uber type service, not an end user product such as the Tesla is.  Two trillion market cap by 2025.
    edited April 10 ridyratapplejakes
  • Reply 22 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,385member
    sflocal said:
    chaicka said:
    The success of Apple's new services is dependent on one key element - speed to market.
    Apple has proven over and over again that being second or third works just fine after everyone else makes their mistakes and the herd thins out.

    Being first is overrated.  

    Did Apple beat everyone to the market with the iPhone?  I clearly remember many people in the industry saying that Apple was late to that market too.
    As a kid I'd ride my bike with a couple friends to the video store after school on Fridays to rent a video game to beat that weekend. Everyone wanted to play first, except me. I wanted to play last so I could see how the controls worked and what to expect. This always resulted in more play time.
    tenthousandthingsridyrat
  • Reply 23 of 83
    That's bulletin board material right there.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised if "too late to the game, my ass" comes up in some future press conference about the Apple Card or TV+.  Any everyone else here on AI knows full well, being "late to the game" has been Apple's successful MO for well over a decade now.

    And besides, who believes that these services announcement are the final arrow's in Apple's quiver.  They aren't investing in VR, AR, AI, and automotive tech just to roll out magazine subscriptions, TV shows, and credit cards.
    ridyrat
  • Reply 24 of 83
    tjwolf said:
    Are we sure the cost structure of these services is really that big of a deal such that margins will really be as low as they think? Explain to me where Apple has spent the money? $1B for TV shows is a drop in the bucket, the card R&D is not significant, the Apple Arcade R&D is also baked into ongoing work on OSes. Texture wasn't an expensive acquisition. I'm open to thinking revenues won't be as big as some might project, but the marginal cost of these above-the-fold offerings is a rounding error still...
    While I agree that these costs are something Apple can easily afford, I think you're underestimating the potential cost of Apple's foray into content services.  They've already spent more than the $1B you cite and that's just for a handful of original shows.  A few originals do not a 24/7 streaming network make.  They'll have to spend massively to license additional content from the established content providers - if their plan is really to be a Netflix/Prime competitor.  Which, to me, isn't altogether clear they are.  Since no pricing has been announced on Apple TV+, there's a chance that Apple might offer it for free or as part of a bundle (e.g. w. Apple Music) to further entrench its users into the Apple ecosystem.  That alone (keeping & attracting more Apple customers) would be worth a $1b/year expenditure on some shows.

    Anyway, I don't agree at all with the analyst: he/we don't know enough about what Apple TV+ is supposed to be to know whether Apple is too late.  With regards to the credit card, he severely underestimates Apple's brand power.  The card & associated benefits (usability, rewards, etc.) are exactly what a typical Apple customer is looking for.  I bet they'll have tens of millions of card members within the first year.  I'll certainly be one of them - what's not to like: 3% off Apple gear! easy visualization of expenditures, better security.....and a lovely physical card to boot!
      I agree about the Apple card, it will be a big success for them.  Most IPhone users I know are very interested in this card, I surely am.  
    lostkiwi
  • Reply 26 of 83
    They are right about their TV offering but wrong about the CC.  The smarter move for them with the TV offering would have been to build the device and then partner with HULU an Netflix to offer Apple TV specific content/special features.
    airnerd
  • Reply 27 of 83
    FatmanFatman Posts: 319member
    HSBC are a bunch of clowns, jealous because of the Goldman Sachs credit card tie-up, so they are picking on Apple's strategy. I believe Apple is in one of the strongest positions EVER. They are much more than a smartphone company, They can pick and choose where they want to shine - computer hardware? consumer electronics? audio & video media? content? education? healthcare? payments? gaming? All of the above? No other company wields that type of power and control. Full Disclaimer - I own a tremendous amount of shares and recommend you do the same.
  • Reply 28 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    Let’s face it these are me-too products that exist because Apple execs are now obsessed with monetizing existing hardware customers knowing that hardware sales growth has stalled.
    airnerd
  • Reply 29 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    What innovation has Apple brought to the credit card? What are they doing that no one else is doing?
    airnerd
  • Reply 30 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    Please explain the bolder comment. What is the Apple Card offering that no one else is offering? And the Apple TV service is Amazon Channels + some original programming. Hardly groundbreaking.
    airnerdchemengin
  • Reply 31 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    neilm said:
    exsangus said:
    Apple was pretty late to the game when they introduced the iPhone, too.
    And the iPod.

    "Too late to the game" is a recurring theme for those Apple critics who fail to observe that taking an existing concept and making it much more usable, and desirable, is one of Apple's demonstrated strengths.
    Does anything Apple announce at their March event look better than what currently exists?  Nothing I saw made me think wow this blows away the competition. Doesn’t mean these services won’t be successful but I don’t think they’re groundbreaking in any way, I think some of the things Apple is doing with the Watch are much more exciting than selling people an Amazon/Netflix/Hulu clone.
  • Reply 32 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,385member
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    What innovation has Apple brought to the credit card? What are they doing that no one else is doing?
    A: Higher rewards when using Apple Pay (over the physical card) to help push the adoption of a more secure payment system.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 33 of 83
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 838member
    Soli said:
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    What innovation has Apple brought to the credit card? What are they doing that no one else is doing?
    A: Higher rewards when using Apple Pay (over the physical card) to help push the adoption of a more secure payment system.
    No signature on the card
    No number on the card
    No magnetic strip on the card
    No hidden fees, just a fluctuating interest rate.
    Backed up with biometric data on a secure enclave.
    Real time use data.
    No secret 3 digit code printed on the card.
    Anonymous transaction data.
    Real titanium, not just silver plastic.

    Two years from now all cards will be like this and ten years from now everyone will forget it was an Apple innovation.
    zoetmblostkiwisocalbrian
  • Reply 34 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,385member
    badmonk said:
    Soli said:
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    What innovation has Apple brought to the credit card? What are they doing that no one else is doing?
    A: Higher rewards when using Apple Pay (over the physical card) to help push the adoption of a more secure payment system.
    No signature on the card
    No number on the card
    No magnetic strip on the card
    No hidden fees, just a fluctuating interest rate.
    Backed up with biometric data on a secure enclave.
    Real time use data.
    No secret 3 digit code printed on the card.
    Anonymous transaction data.
    Real titanium, not just silver plastic.

    Two years from now all cards will be like this and ten years from now everyone will forget it was an Apple innovation.
    1) Nice list, but I think most of those existed on some other card before Apple. I choose my item because I don't think anyone else had done it before Apple. (I'm not sure about a titanium card or laser etching, but I do have metal cards that are 2 sandwiched pieces that are stiff and heavy.)

    2) I thought it does have a magnetic stripe, which will tell you basic and standard info when swiped (name, card number and expiration date). The CVV data is interesting since I think that is only available when you access the Wallet app which probably does make that unique and more secure, if I have that correct.
    airnerdlostkiwichemengin
  • Reply 35 of 83
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,298member
    Gee, HSBC wouldn’t have a dog in this fight, would they?
  • Reply 36 of 83
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,159member
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    I have many card that beat the Apple Card. 
    airnerd
  • Reply 37 of 83
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,816member
    Let’s face it these are me-too products that exist because Apple execs are now obsessed with monetizing existing hardware customers knowing that hardware sales growth has stalled.
    No, it’s because people like you previously complained that they had too much revenue in hardware alone. Now they will generate revenue in hardware and services. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
  • Reply 38 of 83
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,816member
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    What innovation has Apple brought to the credit card? What are they doing that no one else is doing?
    Did you even watch the presentation on how it works? Or read the article here about the layers of security?
  • Reply 39 of 83
    horvatichorvatic Posts: 132member
    How many times have we heard that excuse. Apple's to late to the game. MP3 players when Apple released the iPod, when Apple released the iPhone, when Apple started Apple Music to name a few. It's never who's first that wins. It is who's best that wins. Apple bested all of the previous, so prematurely saying Apple is to late is a VERY BAD ASSUMPTION!
    Soli
  • Reply 40 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,385member
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    I have many card that beat the Apple Card. 
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 3% back on Apple purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 2% bak on Apple Pay-based purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you your cash back that day instead of waiting for the billing cycle to roll over (and in many cases only give you half your percentage back until you pay off your charges)?
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero late fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for paying on time?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero on overage fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for not going over your balance?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than a laser etched, titanium card? (How is that even quantifiable?)
    What cards do you have incentive the security of Apple Pay over using the physical card counterpart?
    What cards do you have that are available via Apple Pay after you've signed up and before you've received your physical card?

    Saying the Card doesn't offer anything because it exits within the reality of finance and credit cards is like arguing that Apple's A-series chips are meh because Apple licenses from ARM instead of reinventing the entire microprocessor from the ground up. Being the best and most idealized option doesn't mean that everything has to outlandishly original to be an effective product—nor does it have to be the best option for everyone. You're a frequent travel so you prefer your Delta card for airline miles? That's perfectly fine just as there are legitimate reasons one needs or prefers an Android phone or Windows laptop without having to hate Apple for existing.
    edited April 10 zoetmbLordeHawk
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