That's a comic book quote of all things and it is one of the most profound moral truths of all time.
Apple is in a position of great power. they have used this power to stand up for what they call human rights and environmental responsibility.
They have censored freedom of speech at the cost of someone's livelihood in some cases and forced music onto customers' devices (U2) that hare a certain worldview, so it isn't always on the right side of morality, but it has also made great strides in social responsibility over the years, including holding suppliers to much higher human rights standards.
This has nothing to do with how hard it is to be a CEO of a large company. And certainly everyone, not just the CEO at Apple, have worked very very hard and sacrificed much to get the company where it is.
But... they also don't have to sell their souls collectively in order to keep making money. That's one of the things that made Apple what it is - knowing when to say "no."
This is one of those times.
At this point, this is hypocritical and irresponsible.
This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict. At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy. He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.
And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.
I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values. If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values. They’re sales tactics.
So you propose Apple to get out of China market? How does that benefit Chinese consumers?
No, just that he needs to stop being a hypocrite.
Does he? Isn’t that very narrow view when the other option apart from abide by Chinese law is pulling out?
He’s an American. His value is also American. Can’t apply to China. I’m glad he understand that. What if he’s against capital punishment? Does he need to pull Apple out of all countries that has the law? Where does it end?
You can have your own value and preach it in your own country and abide by other countries law when you’re operating in it. It doesn’t make you a hypocrite, just pragmatic.
You write ... "Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government." ... Really? Isn't that a bit over simplifying? I would bet this was a tough decision which was against his own believes ... but it also shows that he understands that he is a CEO of a company.
This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict. At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy. He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.
And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.
I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values. If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values. They’re sales tactics.
So you have or haven’t figured out that their act is complete bullshit?
The word democracy is evil in and of itself. Simply put it's mob rule. As for the states we are not a democracy even though our government educators and universities continue to lie to their students about that. We are a constitutional republic. Having said that I don't know what's worse. Democracy or Communism.
Vast majority Chinese in China care less on western values. What they care are having a better living for themselves.
In a way, it’s an extremely selfish society that cares much more about their own and their own family’s than the greater good but what can we expect from a society that always lives under dictatorial rules from Emperors to Communist party? I don’t think democracy will ever work in China. I think it’s already a miracle that it works in India and Indonesia.
The strong individualism culture and apprehension of public welfare project make the US an even more selfish society than China. Saying that average Americans care more about the greater good than their own and their own family's is illusional at best. With our economical power we would already have the world's best transit systems, the most advanced infrastructures, and the best medical system if that is true.
As for democracy, it is kind of working for us, but then our political system is mostly influenced by big corporates and super rich right now. I don't know if you can say it is working for India.
That's a comic book quote of all things and it is one of the most profound moral truths of all time.
Apple is in a position of great power. they have used this power to stand up for what they call human rights and environmental responsibility.
They have censored freedom of speech at the cost of someone's livelihood in some cases and forced music onto customers' devices (U2) that hare a certain worldview, so it isn't always on the right side of morality, but it has also made great strides in social responsibility over the years, including holding suppliers to much higher human rights standards.
This has nothing to do with how hard it is to be a CEO of a large company. And certainly everyone, not just the CEO at Apple, have worked very very hard and sacrificed much to get the company where it is.
But... they also don't have to sell their souls collectively in order to keep making money. That's one of the things that made Apple what it is - knowing when to say "no."
This is one of those times.
At this point, this is hypocritical and irresponsible.
You really think Apple is more powerful than the Chinese government?
China GDP: $12.24 trillion (2017)
Apple Revenue $0.229 trillion (2017)
Now factor in how much Apple loses in revenue if China isn't their customer. Now consider how Apple having a presence in China (and other nations) helps them make inroads. How many inroads do they have by not existing?
There is nothing hypocritical about abiding by different laws for different countries instead of building for the lowest common denomenator and it's absolutely the most responsible thing for them to do to help create the change they want to see.
PS: It's doubtful there is a single nation that does things exactly the way Apple thinks they should be. Should Apple stop doing business in the US because of its human rights violations?
This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict. At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy. He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.
And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.
I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values. If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values. They’re sales tactics.
Tim Cook is a fair weather friend to human civil rights.
I posit there is no such thing as human rights, because the only rights which matter are those legally and constitutionally protected. Simply claiming something is true doesn’t make it true.
This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict. At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy. He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.
And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.
I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values. If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values. They’re sales tactics.
Tim Cook is a fair weather friend to human civil rights.
I posit there is no such thing as human rights, because the only rights which matter are those legally and constitutionally protected. Simply claiming something is true doesn’t make it true.
You know you just stated that ethics and morals don't matter, right?
Tim Cook can have his values (they are largely mine). Apple can have their values but the bottom line is that Apple has to follow the rules in the country they operate in and this includes the good old USA. As an American, I have to say my country does bad things as well. We have some merit in that we think we self correct over time but unfortunately it makes it difficult to judge others in the light of our behavior.
As an American company, Tim Cook and Apple have the right to influence the political process domestically. In other countries, they can be aspirational in approach but that is about it. Unfortunately it makes it problematic in the countries of the world where democracy and liberal values don’t hold sway. And even those countries that hold those values are under attack from within.
I can’t blame Tim and Apple for the problems in these countries. And I don’t think it diminishes the good Apple is doing in China in terms of forestry management, renewable energy and avoidance of conflict materials.
And yes before you highlight and respond to my comments, I am sure those iPhone factories are horror-shows in many many ways.
And this murderous, authoritarian, single-party, anti-privacy, obey-or-death regime...is the country some of our astroturfers want to put in charge of worldwide telecomms? Yeah no.
This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict. At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy. He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.
And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.
I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values. If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values. They’re sales tactics.
So you propose Apple to get out of China market? How does that benefit Chinese consumers?
No, just that he needs to stop being a hypocrite.
Does he? Isn’t that very narrow view when the other option apart from abide by Chinese law is pulling out?
He’s an American. His value is also American. Can’t apply to China. I’m glad he understand that. What if he’s against capital punishment? Does he need to pull Apple out of all countries that has the law? Where does it end?
You can have your own value and preach it in your own country and abide by other countries law when you’re operating in it. It doesn’t make you a hypocrite, just pragmatic.
This. Most the nonsense from the critics seem think an American CEO can change the law in China, and that if he can’t, then he should give up the ideals that are practiced in countries where they can. Nuts. Apple is in America, and in America it is a corporate citizen with the power to influence America, because we have that right here. It’s our right to enjoy. We shouldn’t stop enjoying it here just because we can’t in China.
So really, all I hear is conservative sour grapes, still pissed that the most successful company in history is liberal. lol
The word democracy is evil in and of itself. Simply put it's mob rule. As for the states we are not a democracy even though our government educators and universities continue to lie to their students about that. We are a constitutional republic. Having said that I don't know what's worse. Democracy or Communism.
Nobody is lying, enough with your tinfoil paranoid nonsense. We’re a democratic republic, stop pretending that you’re the only one who knows this.
This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict. At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy. He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.
And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.
I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values. If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values. They’re sales tactics.
Tim Cook is a fair weather friend to human civil rights.
I posit there is no such thing as human rights, because the only rights which matter are those legally and constitutionally protected. Simply claiming something is true doesn’t make it true.
This is why I think apple should buy back all its stock and get out of the market. Then they do not have to be beholden to the markets requirement of constant growth and can take a stand on things that will hurt that growth. Their privacy stance is also marketing tool to sell more product. Taking a stand in china is probably not and will not lead to more growth.
Its fine is apple does not want to do this, but then they must stop advertising as a company with a conscience when they do things like this. I wonder if employees of apple agree with this.
The word democracy is evil in and of itself. Simply put it's mob rule. As for the states we are not a democracy even though our government educators and universities continue to lie to their students about that. We are a constitutional republic. Having said that I don't know what's worse. Democracy or Communism.
Nobody is lying, enough with your tinfoil paranoid nonsense. We’re a democratic republic, stop pretending that you’re the only one who knows this.
Really, I suppose you believe we have a right to vote in a federal election too don't you? But you keep soaking up what government educators and professors feed you if it makes you happy. And no we're not a democratic republic. And why would you assume that I were the only one who knows that we are a constitutional republic? Stating that we're a constitutional republic is tinfoil paranoid nonsense? Then perhaps you can show me where in the constitution and/or bill of right that says we are a democratic republic. Matter of fact if you don't mind point to me where you find the word democracy at all.
Comments
That's a comic book quote of all things and it is one of the most profound moral truths of all time.
Apple is in a position of great power. they have used this power to stand up for what they call human rights and environmental responsibility.
They have censored freedom of speech at the cost of someone's livelihood in some cases and forced music onto customers' devices (U2) that hare a certain worldview, so it isn't always on the right side of morality, but it has also made great strides in social responsibility over the years, including holding suppliers to much higher human rights standards.
This has nothing to do with how hard it is to be a CEO of a large company. And certainly everyone, not just the CEO at Apple, have worked very very hard and sacrificed much to get the company where it is.
But... they also don't have to sell their souls collectively in order to keep making money. That's one of the things that made Apple what it is - knowing when to say "no."
This is one of those times.
At this point, this is hypocritical and irresponsible.
He’s an American. His value is also American. Can’t apply to China. I’m glad he understand that. What if he’s against capital punishment? Does he need to pull Apple out of all countries that has the law? Where does it end?
You can have your own value and preach it in your own country and abide by other countries law when you’re operating in it. It doesn’t make you a hypocrite, just pragmatic.
As for democracy, it is kind of working for us, but then our political system is mostly influenced by big corporates and super rich right now. I don't know if you can say it is working for India.
Now factor in how much Apple loses in revenue if China isn't their customer. Now consider how Apple having a presence in China (and other nations) helps them make inroads. How many inroads do they have by not existing?
There is nothing hypocritical about abiding by different laws for different countries instead of building for the lowest common denomenator and it's absolutely the most responsible thing for them to do to help create the change they want to see.
PS: It's doubtful there is a single nation that does things exactly the way Apple thinks they should be. Should Apple stop doing business in the US because of its human rights violations?
As an American company, Tim Cook and Apple have the right to influence the political process domestically. In other countries, they can be aspirational in approach but that is about it. Unfortunately it makes it problematic in the countries of the world where democracy and liberal values don’t hold sway. And even those countries that hold those values are under attack from within.
I can’t blame Tim and Apple for the problems in these countries. And I don’t think it diminishes the good Apple is doing in China in terms of forestry management, renewable energy and avoidance of conflict materials.
And yes before you highlight and respond to my comments, I am sure those iPhone factories are horror-shows in many many ways.
You'd have to be mad.
So really, all I hear is conservative sour grapes, still pissed that the most successful company in history is liberal. lol
Nobody is lying, enough with your tinfoil paranoid nonsense. We’re a democratic republic, stop pretending that you’re the only one who knows this.
What an absolute load of pigeon droppings.
Its fine is apple does not want to do this, but then they must stop advertising as a company with a conscience when they do things like this. I wonder if employees of apple agree with this.
You can have your values, but you still can act only within the law.
China has different laws than the US.
Those who do not understand it are simply... well, they don’t understand how that specific part of life/world works. Peace.