I share your general distain for corporate welfare. But you could argue that roads, bridges and general infrastructure are also corporate welfare. There’s a cost/benefit analysis to be done there.
What is irksome is where one company gets certain advantages over other existing companies, especially if those other companies are already local. That is unforgivable.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
University of Wisconsin is a high rated engineering school, besides
Agreed that it has a highly rated engineering school, but Wisconsin isn't known for being a hi-tech area. More known for its cows and cheese. 13,000 is a lot to fill for any states besides CA and maybe 2-3 others.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
This has nothing to do with Trump and all to do with the governor of Wisconsin giving away taxpayer money as a bribe. This type of behavior is done all over the US in order to
"attract" or keep businesses. Sports Teams are the best at extracting money from local economies for little or nothing in return. When teams or businesses threaten to leave I say let them leave and let some other sucker give them a new building or stadium. Some of the agreements sports teams get in return for letting cities build them new stadiums are truly unbelievable and its all for a few part-time jobs.
Trump made it about himself and his business acumen throughout the election and the first 18 months of his administration.
At least Trump's consistent - The factories are as full as his casinos!
This whole thing was a stunt from jump street and smelled from the start.
I myself am opposed to governments of any level giving away stuff to attract any business to come or stay- if it takes a stunt to get them it will take a stunt to keep them. This would be my view regardless of the politicians or party involved.
In my hometown, we have a Japanese plant that was lured here by a former Governor who grossly overpromised to the company. He told them our community had a large supply of well-educated workers that could be had on the cheap, when the truth was we have a supply of well-educated workers and then a supply of less-educated workers who will work on the cheap. They quickly found out the kind of people they wanted already had jobs paying more than they were offering and the kind of people they could get for that price had minimal job skills and many had little or no previous experience in manufacturing.
Call me crazy, but a private for-profit business should locate their facilities where the business conditions dictate and they should pay the prevailing costs. Governments should not subsidize for-profit companies in general.
I agree. If a deal doesn't make sense without government subsidies, it doesn't make sense with government subsidies.
I share your general distain for corporate welfare. But you could argue that roads, bridges and general infrastructure are also corporate welfare. There’s a cost/benefit analysis to be done there.
What is irksome is where one company gets certain advantages over other existing companies, especially if those other companies are already local. That is unforgivable.
How do municipal civic engineering projects equate to corporate welfare for private companies? Public infrastructure is for direct use by the public. Private corporate subsidies are not.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
University of Wisconsin is a high rated engineering school, besides
Agreed that it has a highly rated engineering school, but Wisconsin isn't known for being a hi-tech area. More known for its cows and cheese. 13,000 is a lot to fill for any states besides CA and maybe 2-3 others.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven, but I don't have a problem with the 13,000 number. Wisconsin has a population of nearly 6 million people. The (revised) statement of intent was "This campus will serve both as an advanced manufacturing facility as well as a hub of high technology innovation for the region." That implies a significant number of blue collar jobs, plus factor in hundreds of admin/HR/facilities/etc. jobs that any business needs. I wouldn't see Wisconsin having trouble filling those positions. Too bad the jobs don't exist for people to take however.
This was a scam from the get-go, set up to make certain Republicans look good but with typical zero follow-through. Walker knew this, which is why he prevented his successor from doing anything about it. Walker was a disaster for Wisconsin and it will take a generation to undo his damage. I feel bad for the taxpayers who DIDN'T vote for these crooks, they still got robbed like the rest. This will certainly end up in court, and hopefully before Fox-CON tries to do some more hand-wavey “but this time we’re really going to do it” BS around the next election cycle.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
Why is Wisconsin not capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
Well, when you get politics involved in something that should be a business decision this is what happens.
Foxconn could build a highly automated production facility in Wisconsin that could eek out OK margins on product. Of course, that would defeat the whole ‘jobs’ program politicians want. Hiring R&D type folk might be a better bet because the U.S. has a lot of talent in that department.
But then Wisconsin has another problem to deal with. Who amongst those R&D types wants to move to Wisconsin as opposed to living on the coasts? Guys, you want those high tech jobs in your states? Then do something to make them attractive to those types of people. I’m talking lifestyle changes like a vibrant downtown, bikeways throughout the city, nearby bicycle and hiking trails, rafting and canoeing in the great outdoors (they’ve got a few lakes ya know). Use your assets guys. Promote them!
I think low regulatory overhead and non-confiscatory taxes are more attractive to corporations than any of the things you’ve mentioned – not that bike paths and hiking trails are bad. By all means, offer and promote them. But if a state’s regulatory climate is actively hostile to business and founded on liberal policies that emphasize punitive taxation and regulation, all the bike paths and hiking trails in the world won’t be enough to draw in new companies.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
Speaking to the premise of this article, "According to an investigation" by WHO? By partisan Democrats butt-hurt that a Republican state governor’s political initiative might lead TOWARDS thousands of new middle-class jobs and AWAY from the kind of government dependency that is the Democrats’ modus operandi? For God’s sake people, are you so blinded by your political hatred of Trump that you're unable to see something as plainly virtuous and good for the country as thousands of new jobs, to say nothing of the ancillary benefits that follow, i.e. more local business in Wisconsin, a rich new economic ecosystem of subcontractors, and a flood of new tax revenue. Stop bitching like a bunch of little children.
I share your general distain for corporate welfare. But you could argue that roads, bridges and general infrastructure are also corporate welfare. There’s a cost/benefit analysis to be done there.
What is irksome is where one company gets certain advantages over other existing companies, especially if those other companies are already local. That is unforgivable.
How do municipal civic engineering projects equate to corporate welfare for private companies? Public infrastructure is for direct use by the public. Private corporate subsidies are not.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. But you know as well as I that airports, roadways, rail, water, electrical grid capacity, as well as the labor pool, are key factors in any company decision to locate plant and equipment. Smart local governments spend money on these things rather enticing companies with unfair tax breaks and the like.
Yes, the general public benefits from this infrastructure as well. But how many companies are willing to build their own power generation equipment (other than Apple) to move someplace that doesn’t have any of this stuff. Not many. Corporate welfare? Maybe yes maybe no. Corporate enticement? Definitely!
Speaking to the premise of this article, "According to an investigation" by WHO? By partisan Democrats butt-hurt that a Republican state governor’s political initiative might lead TOWARDS thousands of new middle-class jobs and AWAY from the kind of government dependency that is the Democrats’ modus operandi? For God’s sake people, are you so blinded by your political hatred of Trump that you're unable to see something as plainly virtuous and good for the country as thousands of new jobs, to say nothing of the ancillary benefits that follow, i.e. more local business in Wisconsin, a rich new economic ecosystem of subcontractors, and a flood of new tax revenue. Stop bitching like a bunch of little children.
I think you’ve missed the story here. More jobs were dangled, and the reality is looking more and more that near zero jobs will be available, yet the citizens of the state will lose funding for more important things like infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc for decades. I live in the state, so…. I’m sure you mean well, but your rhetoric broadcasts (perhaps) total ignorance of the topic and situation.
Foxconn has a long and illustrious history of announcing local investments, receiving up front money from excited and often stupid local politicians and then walking away with the money. It's another form of revenue stream for them.
Brazil Vietnam Indonesia India Multi American cities.
Well, when you get politics involved in something that should be a business decision this is what happens.
Foxconn could build a highly automated production facility in Wisconsin that could eek out OK margins on product. Of course, that would defeat the whole ‘jobs’ program politicians want. Hiring R&D type folk might be a better bet because the U.S. has a lot of talent in that department.
But then Wisconsin has another problem to deal with. Who amongst those R&D types wants to move to Wisconsin as opposed to living on the coasts? Guys, you want those high tech jobs in your states? Then do something to make them attractive to those types of people. I’m talking lifestyle changes like a vibrant downtown, bikeways throughout the city, nearby bicycle and hiking trails, rafting and canoeing in the great outdoors (they’ve got a few lakes ya know). Use your assets guys. Promote them!
I think low regulatory overhead and non-confiscatory taxes are more attractive to corporations than any of the things you’ve mentioned – not that bike paths and hiking trails are bad. By all means, offer and promote them. But if a state’s regulatory climate is actively hostile to business and founded on liberal policies that emphasize punitive taxation and regulation, all the bike paths and hiking trails in the world won’t be enough to draw in new companies.
Good points on low regulatory overhead and low taxes.
However, California and New York have high regulatory hurdles and relatively high taxes. Yet they still manage to attract many high skilled workers. So it appears that lifestyle trumps those two things. Of course, the middle and working classes are having a much more difficult time maintaining their standard of living in that environment.
I think low regulatory overhead and non-confiscatory taxes are more attractive to corporations than any of the things you’ve mentioned – not that bike paths and hiking trails are bad. By all means, offer and promote them. But if a state’s regulatory climate is actively hostile to business and founded on liberal policies that emphasize punitive taxation and regulation, all the bike paths and hiking trails in the world won’t be enough to draw in new companies.
Low cost can definitely be an attractive incentive but it's not everything. Don't be so binary and ideological in your thinking. Here in the Valley, where there's been complaints here and the state about the anti-business environment for decades, high tech companies are opening up here in the droves. Making life even more expensive, encouraging more politicians to go on the attack. Companies are only talented as much as their workers, and these workers want those bike paths, oceans, organic food, busy downtowns, million-dollar one bedroom condos, etc. Low cost state Texas has done a terrific job bringing in companies, but that's becoming less of a factor in university/tech areas like Austin, home of SXSW. For high-skilled workers who have the advantage on the job market's supply and demand, it's about the quality of life, not getting bored eating at the only McDonald's in that low tax town. Please! If high-skilled workers are going to give their soul and their 24/7 labor to their companies, they're going to want their bike paths to keep them sane. Go ahead and deride that for ideological reasons, but it's true.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
This has nothing to do with Trump and all to do with the governor of Wisconsin giving away taxpayer money as a bribe. This type of behavior is done all over the US in order to
"attract" or keep businesses. Sports Teams are the best at extracting money from local economies for little or nothing in return. When teams or businesses threaten to leave I say let them leave and let some other sucker give them a new building or stadium. Some of the agreements sports teams get in return for letting cities build them new stadiums are truly unbelievable and its all for a few part-time jobs.
Of course it does. He used this announcement for political gains as if he had something to do with it. As far as I’m concerned, it’s on his back now. If it’s failing then that means he did as well and needs to do something about it.
Unless of course he had nothing to do with it, and only took credit for it.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
Dude, just don’t. That whole fairly tale is looking pretty sad these days and this isn’t the place for it. Wisconsin in the perfect place for factory work. Along with lumber mills, they will have assembly lines. Would be great to distribute some of the knowledge work around to parts of the country not especially known for it as well.
More fraud, something both Trump and China are masters at. Did anyone ever really believe that Wisconsin would even be capable of supporting 13,000 high tech jobs?
This has nothing to do with Trump and all to do with the governor of Wisconsin giving away taxpayer money as a bribe. This type of behavior is done all over the US in order to
"attract" or keep businesses. Sports Teams are the best at extracting money from local economies for little or nothing in return. When teams or businesses threaten to leave I say let them leave and let some other sucker give them a new building or stadium. Some of the agreements sports teams get in return for letting cities build them new stadiums are truly unbelievable and its all for a few part-time jobs.
Trump made it about himself and his business acumen throughout the election and the first 18 months of his administration.
Someone had to stand up for him. In this case, it was himself. when half the media are out to get you and lie to do it, you have to get loud. Would be great to see some journalistic integrity make its way back at some point. If anything, Trump has shown the benefit of using modern tech - even something as simple as social media - to build your brand without giving it over to the media to build your brand however they want - for better or worse.
As with this Foxconn deal, I am taking the wait and see approach. There may be reasons why the building are empty, Perhaps they secured the space early and are still in the logistics stages - or - as I ran into recently, a number of buildings were secured only to run into various usage and permit issues that needed time and expense to rectify before occupation and usage can begin. Knee-jerk reactions aren’t usually very useful. Let’s see what actual facts come out.
Comments
I share your general distain for corporate welfare. But you could argue that roads, bridges and general infrastructure are also corporate welfare. There’s a cost/benefit analysis to be done there.
What is irksome is where one company gets certain advantages over other existing companies, especially if those other companies are already local. That is unforgivable.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. But you know as well as I that airports, roadways, rail, water, electrical grid capacity, as well as the labor pool, are key factors in any company decision to locate plant and equipment. Smart local governments spend money on these things rather enticing companies with unfair tax breaks and the like.
Yes, the general public benefits from this infrastructure as well. But how many companies are willing to build their own power generation equipment (other than Apple) to move someplace that doesn’t have any of this stuff. Not many. Corporate welfare? Maybe yes maybe no. Corporate enticement? Definitely!
Brazil
Vietnam
Indonesia
India
Multi American cities.
Good points on low regulatory overhead and low taxes.
However, California and New York have high regulatory hurdles and relatively high taxes. Yet they still manage to attract many high skilled workers. So it appears that lifestyle trumps those two things. Of course, the middle and working classes are having a much more difficult time maintaining their standard of living in that environment.
Of course it does. He used this announcement for political gains as if he had something to do with it. As far as I’m concerned, it’s on his back now. If it’s failing then that means he did as well and needs to do something about it.
Unless of course he had nothing to do with it, and only took credit for it.
So, which is it?
Dude, just don’t. That whole fairly tale is looking pretty sad these days and this isn’t the place for it.
Wisconsin in the perfect place for factory work. Along with lumber mills, they will have assembly lines.
Would be great to distribute some of the knowledge work around to parts of the country not especially known for it as well.
As with this Foxconn deal, I am taking the wait and see approach. There may be reasons why the building are empty, Perhaps they secured the space early and are still in the logistics stages - or - as I ran into recently, a number of buildings were secured only to run into various usage and permit issues that needed time and expense to rectify before occupation and usage can begin. Knee-jerk reactions aren’t usually very useful. Let’s see what actual facts come out.