The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 1615
    Ericpeet - maybe have a look at the bullet points in our post, if you like answers more than questions.  Or perhaps your point is to frame knowns as unknowns.

    Alexonline - people have already received properly working units.  Since you don’t have an order, and you say it’s vaporware, it’s curious you still spend time on it.
    It's so frustrating to get a straight answer. I'm asking because I can't figure out from previous posts, since they're cryptic, full of accusations, conspiracy theories and psycho analysis. And with snide remarks to boot. Let's try this again:
    • Were those pallets of textblades shown to William ready to ship? (Just says 320 TBs per pallet, but are these ready to ship? Or do they need to be altered/modified)?
    • If so, why aren't you shipping them? (They should at least be shipped to additional TREG candidates, if not GR (if you can produce the pallets at regular pace, no?)
    • If not, what's holding up GR? (What are some of the major delay issues, and what are your milestone objectives that  are holding it up?)
    • Do you have any updates you'd like to share? (I think you last stated bluetooth issues and working on a code fork, anything else you can update?)
    Please don't read INTO what I'm saying when I tell you that I find no pleasure in making critical remarks, nor in wading through your own WT forum to search for answers to the questions. That's why I'm taking the opportunity here to ask them.
    edited April 2019 leeeh2
  • Reply 82 of 1615
    Some big picture here - to sift past the fresh spin, and the deliberate confusion in ericpeet’s post.


    Press Coverage on New Tech and its Challenges

    Publications don’t stop coverage when new tech gets delayed.  It happens a lot, and that’s still newsworthy too.

    AI and MR didn’t stop reporting on AirPower while it got delayed for 2 years.  They both reported on it, even after it was canceled.  All of that was newsworthy.

    Phil Schiller didn’t lie to reporters when he announced on stage in 2017, that Apple knew how to do AirPower, and it would ship in 2018.  

    Apple experienced unexpected technical challenges that slowed them down, and ultimately caused them to cancel and never ship it.

    That didn’t hurt MR or AI reputations for covering it.  They just reported the news.  No one blamed the publications for Apple’s travails.


    Targeted Abuse of a Journalist 

    So what is different here?

    The operative reason MR stopped coverage was because of a targeted campaign of abuse, aimed specifically at their editor.

    There was genuine concern for safety, because of the extreme nature of the harassment.  

    We saw it ourselves on our forum too, where threats were made to physically harm people, by the same alter egos posting here now, 3 years later.

    But the primary assault here was on the reporter’s reputation as an objective journalist.

    This was a brute force tactic to intimidate the reporter, who did nothing more than write the news and tell the truth.

    News about activity of any manufacturer, good or bad, obviously does not reflect upon the integrity of the messenger. 

    If a reporter thought a manufacturer were doing something wrong, they’d just call them out on it in a story, and affirm their objectivity.

    But what happened here was more complex, and darker.


    Reputation

    The abuse here was a personal attack on the reputation of the reporter, by alleging some kind of paid promotion, when there was none.  

    Especially for an honest reporter, who scrupulously never compromises objectivity, a personal attack on reputation was particularly disturbing.  

    That’s what forced the intervention, ending coverage, just as the abusers hoped to achieve.  

    It was a cold and deliberate calculus by the abusers, likely for a paid purpose, with no regard to the emotional stress to an honest person.


    Fresh Spin

    The posters here now retry the same spin tricks documented earlier within this thread.  They conflate two issues to try to weave a lie.  

    They now claim that simply covering our work could somehow affect the reporter’s reputation.

    But reporters can report anything, good or bad, with no bearing on their reputation.  The news is the news.

    And these multiple pseudonyms know better.  They were in fact the ones attacking the reporter’s reputation themselves, in posts.

    Their multiple id’s were accusing the reporter of doing a favorable story for money, which clearly didn’t happen.

    Such an accusation can’t be fixed by writing a story.  Instead, the editor had to personally defend in posts, and categorically deny corruption.


    But the abusers kept at it relentlessly, ignoring the clear declarations, and repeatedly maligning the editor’s integrity.

    As the reality of first treg shipments approached, they amped it up significantly, through multiple pseudonyms.  The reporter finally had enough.

    There was an announcement about the intolerable level of abuse, and the harm being done to reputation by the false accusations of paid articles.

    Coverage was stopped, to put an end to the abuse from these accusatory posts.

    So the pseudonyms got their prize, and then stopped harassing the reporter.


    Present Day

    We saw a similar pattern brewing here, from the same players, and we outed it to prevent a replay.  They’d likely try to mute William.

    Having now been outed, they have tried to cover their tracks.  They try to hang it on the technology provider, by blending and conflating the reputation issue.

    The reporter’s reputation was not a function of the technical progress of the vendor.  It was instead about the accusations of taking bribes.

    And that was wholly contrived by these same actors to disrupt the press coverage of a very real, and significant advance.

    Now, it’s much harder for them to pull off such a pressure campaign.  The product is mature now, and in use daily by the reporter who wrote AI’s article.

    William’s comments came from months of personal use of the product, not a brief impression.  The product is very real, and has been relied on for years now by many customers, and William has probed them.

    William chose what to write, and when to write it.  He wasn’t paid to say anything.  Whatever he’s said are his authentic views as a first-person user.

    He’s also a person who takes a very strong stand on matters of principle, and pushes back quite hard when he sees principle transgressed. He has no compunction about  calling out choices even made by Apple, if it is warranted.

    Before treg users began, a competing interest could try to suppress news coverage, if it were just one brief impression vs. another.  But at this point, too many people have primary data, and personal experience with it that they know is true.


    Why 

    Going as far as we’ve seen these pseudonyms go here, this is pretty hardcore and chronic.  It’s a lot of work, and it’s not the causal work of a grumpy individual.

    It’s not normal.  Why would the same pseudonyms who did that to a reporter, show up again as the product matures?, As it returns to the news in prelude to general release.

    Why would these same actors immediately jump on the next reporter who weighs in?

    Why for example, would they recall some obscure good-cop / bad cop post routine to cite from 3 years ago?  - Because they wrote both sides of it.  

    And they strip just a snippet out of context, wagering that no one will waste the time to look at all the back and forth flame chat from an old thread.

    The art of spin relies on speed and volume.  Lots of posts in a short time, and so much false information that it takes time to untangle it all.
     

    No customer who didn’t get their AirPower, or yet receive their TextBlade, would do this.  No real customer would target a reporter’s reputation.

    They amp it up again now, because they are exposed.  We’ve touched a nerve, and they know they’re culpable.

    So like a purse-snatcher yelling ‘stop thief!’ to distract from what they are doing, they try to accuse us to distract from their misdeeds.


    The anonymous, collective pseudonym ericpeet, et al, knows all this, because he was in on it back then, and is doing it again now, with his documented spin on this thread.

    Just on a gross basis, why in the heck would a legitimate customer do this to any reporter, especially after clear declarations of their policy?

    AppleInsider isn’t likely getting flame mail saying “Damn you for promising me AirPower.  Apple must have paid you to write about it.”

    A real customer would just take a refund and move on.  They wouldn’t spend so much time and writing to malign a reporter, unless they were paid to do it.

    It is surprising to us to see how hard some interests would work to interfere with this product.

    it must be of consequence.

     

    TextBlade vs AirPower 

    It’s interesting to compare - TextBlade’s story is very different from AirPower.

    WayTools tackled problems too, but instead, faced them down, and did not cancel or give up.

    Through perseverance, challenges were overcome, and shipping, while limited, did indeed start.  Hundreds have been shipped to customers, who have validated that it’s definitely worth the wait. It’s a genuinely new and better technology.

    We’ve also doubled-down on the firmware to facilitate general release, and won’t let up until everyone gets their TextBlade, even more powerful than initially spec’d.  

    That steadfastness is something we are very proud of.  It took much sacrifice, and more time and cost to us, but has produced something that users love.

    And this advance did not get made by any other company, including Apple.  Even with plenty of time to study what we had accomplished.

    It’s not an easy thing to do, but it is very much worth doing.

    We’re grateful to all who encourage and accelerate our release. 








     





    gmaddencolinng
  • Reply 83 of 1615
    arkorottarkorott Posts: 100member
    Ericpeet - maybe have a look at the bullet points in our post, if you like answers more than questions.  Or perhaps your point is to frame knowns as unknowns.

    Alexonline - people have already received properly working units.  Since you don’t have an order, and you say it’s vaporware, it’s curious you still spend time on it.




    I DO have an order. And I don't have mine. I am a CUSTOMER. For ME it IS vaporware still....until you SHIP mine after so long.

    Stop referring to the TESTERS as CUSTOMERS. Stop misleading people. (Tens of thousands or orders  vs  a few hundred units for TESTING).

    Guys, you look bad continuing to reinforce your view on the conspiracy theories, snide comments, etc, please stop.
    I recommend stop the accusation / blame game that looks very bad on any company and lets focus on answering the questions without so much inconsequential arguing:

    I would like to see more CONCRETE answers to the other more important questions:

    1- You shipped to testers exactly how many units out of how many orders ? Why haven't you shipped to the other paid orders for years as you have many pallets as reported ? When will you ship (date) your currently available units.

    2- Why have you let the communication / status updates deteriorate dramatically but you still have the time daily to write on the most unrelated and inconsequential (to the TextBlade) topics. (cooktops, helmets, 737 Max crashes, Tesla, Apple, etc etc). ==> Can you provide here in AI a more concrete update please ?

    3- Your site continues to mislead in terms of readiness. Still showing FALL as you have sequentially moved from one season to the next the last 4 years. Even the Animation showing "sold" / "estimated" seems to point to a definite time / short term availability / "flying out the shelves" / but in reality is very vague. If you really do not know when you will ship if should read something like: WE DO NOT KNOW WHEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO SHIP. If you do have a date announce it clearly.


    leeeh2
  • Reply 84 of 1615
    arkorottarkorott Posts: 100member
    Some big picture here - to sift past the fresh spin, and the deliberate confusion in ericpeet’s post.


    Press Coverage on New Tech and its Challenges

    Publications don’t stop coverage when new tech gets delayed.  It happens a lot, and that’s still newsworthy too.

    AI and MR didn’t stop reporting on AirPower while it got delayed for 2 years.  They both reported on it, even after it was canceled.  All of that was newsworthy.

    Phil Schiller didn’t lie to reporters when he announced on stage in 2017, that Apple knew how to do AirPower, and it would ship in 2018.  

    Apple experienced unexpected technical challenges that slowed them down, and ultimately caused them to cancel and never ship it.

    That didn’t hurt MR or AI reputations for covering it.  They just reported the news.  No one blamed the publications for Apple’s travails.


    Targeted Abuse of a Journalist 

    So what is different here?

    The operative reason MR stopped coverage was because of a targeted campaign of abuse, aimed specifically at their editor.

    There was genuine concern for safety, because of the extreme nature of the harassment.  

    We saw it ourselves on our forum too, where threats were made to physically harm people, by the same alter egos posting here now, 3 years later.

    But the primary assault here was on the reporter’s reputation as an objective journalist.

    This was a brute force tactic to intimidate the reporter, who did nothing more than write the news and tell the truth.

    News about activity of any manufacturer, good or bad, obviously does not reflect upon the integrity of the messenger. 

    If a reporter thought a manufacturer were doing something wrong, they’d just call them out on it in a story, and affirm their objectivity.

    But what happened here was more complex, and darker.


    Reputation

    The abuse here was a personal attack on the reputation of the reporter, by alleging some kind of paid promotion, when there was none.  

    Especially for an honest reporter, who scrupulously never compromises objectivity, a personal attack on reputation was particularly disturbing.  

    That’s what forced the intervention, ending coverage, just as the abusers hoped to achieve.  

    It was a cold and deliberate calculus by the abusers, likely for a paid purpose, with no regard to the emotional stress to an honest person.


    Fresh Spin

    The posters here now retry the same spin tricks documented earlier within this thread.  They conflate two issues to try to weave a lie.  

    They now claim that simply covering our work could somehow affect the reporter’s reputation.

    But reporters can report anything, good or bad, with no bearing on their reputation.  The news is the news.

    And these multiple pseudonyms know better.  They were in fact the ones attacking the reporter’s reputation themselves, in posts.

    Their multiple id’s were accusing the reporter of doing a favorable story for money, which clearly didn’t happen.

    Such an accusation can’t be fixed by writing a story.  Instead, the editor had to personally defend in posts, and categorically deny corruption.


    But the abusers kept at it relentlessly, ignoring the clear declarations, and repeatedly maligning the editor’s integrity.

    As the reality of first treg shipments approached, they amped it up significantly, through multiple pseudonyms.  The reporter finally had enough.

    There was an announcement about the intolerable level of abuse, and the harm being done to reputation by the false accusations of paid articles.

    Coverage was stopped, to put an end to the abuse from these accusatory posts.

    So the pseudonyms got their prize, and then stopped harassing the reporter.


    Present Day

    We saw a similar pattern brewing here, from the same players, and we outed it to prevent a replay.  They’d likely try to mute William.

    Having now been outed, they have tried to cover their tracks.  They try to hang it on the technology provider, by blending and conflating the reputation issue.

    The reporter’s reputation was not a function of the technical progress of the vendor.  It was instead about the accusations of taking bribes.

    And that was wholly contrived by these same actors to disrupt the press coverage of a very real, and significant advance.

    Now, it’s much harder for them to pull off such a pressure campaign.  The product is mature now, and in use daily by the reporter who wrote AI’s article.

    William’s comments came from months of personal use of the product, not a brief impression.  The product is very real, and has been relied on for years now by many customers, and William has probed them.

    William chose what to write, and when to write it.  He wasn’t paid to say anything.  Whatever he’s said are his authentic views as a first-person user.

    He’s also a person who takes a very strong stand on matters of principle, and pushes back quite hard when he sees principle transgressed. He has no compunction about  calling out choices even made by Apple, if it is warranted.

    Before treg users began, a competing interest could try to suppress news coverage, if it were just one brief impression vs. another.  But at this point, too many people have primary data, and personal experience with it that they know is true.


    Why 

    Going as far as we’ve seen these pseudonyms go here, this is pretty hardcore and chronic.  It’s a lot of work, and it’s not the causal work of a grumpy individual.

    It’s not normal.  Why would the same pseudonyms who did that to a reporter, show up again as the product matures?, As it returns to the news in prelude to general release.

    Why would these same actors immediately jump on the next reporter who weighs in?

    Why for example, would they recall some obscure good-cop / bad cop post routine to cite from 3 years ago?  - Because they wrote both sides of it.  

    And they strip just a snippet out of context, wagering that no one will waste the time to look at all the back and forth flame chat from an old thread.

    The art of spin relies on speed and volume.  Lots of posts in a short time, and so much false information that it takes time to untangle it all.
     

    No customer who didn’t get their AirPower, or yet receive their TextBlade, would do this.  No real customer would target a reporter’s reputation.

    They amp it up again now, because they are exposed.  We’ve touched a nerve, and they know they’re culpable.

    So like a purse-snatcher yelling ‘stop thief!’ to distract from what they are doing, they try to accuse us to distract from their misdeeds.


    The anonymous, collective pseudonym ericpeet, et al, knows all this, because he was in on it back then, and is doing it again now, with his documented spin on this thread.

    Just on a gross basis, why in the heck would a legitimate customer do this to any reporter, especially after clear declarations of their policy?

    AppleInsider isn’t likely getting flame mail saying “Damn you for promising me AirPower.  Apple must have paid you to write about it.”

    A real customer would just take a refund and move on.  They wouldn’t spend so much time and writing to malign a reporter, unless they were paid to do it.

    It is surprising to us to see how hard some interests would work to interfere with this product.

    it must be of consequence.

     

    TextBlade vs AirPower 

    It’s interesting to compare - TextBlade’s story is very different from AirPower.

    WayTools tackled problems too, but instead, faced them down, and did not cancel or give up.

    Through perseverance, challenges were overcome, and shipping, while limited, did indeed start.  Hundreds have been shipped to customers, who have validated that it’s definitely worth the wait. It’s a genuinely new and better technology.

    We’ve also doubled-down on the firmware to facilitate general release, and won’t let up until everyone gets their TextBlade, even more powerful than initially spec’d.  

    That steadfastness is something we are very proud of.  It took much sacrifice, and more time and cost to us, but has produced something that users love.

    And this advance did not get made by any other company, including Apple.  Even with plenty of time to study what we had accomplished.

    It’s not an easy thing to do, but it is very much worth doing.

    We’re grateful to all who encourage and accelerate our release. 








     





    You do realize that you wrote a huge lot but said nothing of substance ? You did not answer 1 single 1 of the questions being asked at you. Pls focus on that. Let all this mumbo jumbo go. It really looks bad on you. You are damaging yourself. Pls stop.

    Lets exchange information instead of these verbose but empty posts. Because if not an outsider who does not know your style might read that your are purposely being vague and dodging the questions with hot air.

    And guys, you REALLY need to change the person in charge of communication. (And if it is you Mark please delegate to somebody else). You are not helping yourself writing all these comments full of accusations, resentment, etc and very vague with no substance. Just answer the questions and do not generate an accusation game.
  • Reply 85 of 1615
    The false claim was made that MR stopped coverage because we delayed shipping.  Our post above answers it.


    edited April 2019
  • Reply 86 of 1615
    When our post effectively refutes misrepresentation, the response to logic is often - ‘please kill the moderator.’


  • Reply 87 of 1615
    We don’t think any customer would like being told they’re merely a ‘tester’, not a real customer.

    We understand why others may try to erase what’s already accomplished. 
    edited April 2019 gmadden
  • Reply 88 of 1615
    Questions -

    - Hardware in pallets is operational now.  If we revise any process, we apply it to the inventory as we learn it.

    - GR is held for new firmware code fork, as already posted.

    - We ship inventory at GR.  Mass shipping implicitly is same as GR.

    - Updates - will be posted on our forum.  This forum is good for discussion re William’s article.
    gmadden
  • Reply 89 of 1615
    gmaddengmadden Posts: 26member
    We don’t think any customer would like being told they’re merely a ‘tester’, not a real customer.
    I sure don’t appreciate it nor the accusations of being a ‘shill’. 
  • Reply 90 of 1615
    Ah well I have had a lovely day out and come back to all of this. 

    working back through...

    1/ Macrumors ceasing coverage.

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/waytools-textblade-keyboard-to-start-shipping-to-test-group-users-next-week.1957232/page-5#post-22597429

    Juli (and Macrumors) 

    I want to give everyone an update on MacRumors' position on the TextBlade. We've read through the comments posted here, taken into account emails we've received, and looked through information on the WayTools forums. We've heard what you have to say and we won't be continuing on to do a review or further coverage of the TextBlade. 

    Seems like a decision based on research. 

    I didn't ignore the production issues and the long delays in this most recent post, but many of you feel that I did not go far enough highlighting the customer service problems. To that end, I would like to say that there are problems that I was not even aware of, such as the canceling of orders. 

    Information about Waytools unilateral cancellation of orders for customers they don't like was clear on the forum. Juli says see was unaware of that particular issue, so in between writing her second article and this post, she became aware of Waytools actions. 

    I didn't set out to trick, deceive, or disappoint anyone and I apologize if I have unwittingly done so.

    Why would Juli be apologising for unwittingly deceiving the Macrumors readers if she felt she did not need to? I would make that case that she is acknowledging a statement or statements in her article that she now knew to be false. She certainly terminated her coverage at this point. 

    2/ WayTools_Support is a pseudonym. You wear a pseudonym and repeatedly attack the use of pseudonyms. That would be hypocrisy.

    3/

     When our post effectively refutes misrepresentation, the response to logic is often - ‘please kill the moderator.’

    When was this? When did someone threaten to kill a moderator? I hope you hit that report button if your saw that outside of WTF.

    4/ 
    TextBlade vs AirPower 

    I did not find this comparison interesting. Your mileage clearly varied. That seems reasonable to me. 

    5/ Ah yes threats, 

    https://forum.waytools.com/t/robustness-how-tough-is-this-thing/992/6

    Jokes about warranty claims and early adopter guarantees, ridiculous over the top actions only possibly to complete with a thing you can't actually possess. Involving unspecified individuals. In a thread about robustness of the product.

    previous post was https://forum.waytools.com/t/robustness-how-tough-is-this-thing/992/3 note those questions were not answered. 

    Anyway numbering is getting tedious so on to:

    His hits began at the start, before any delay in shipment.
    https://forum.waytools.com/users/rolanbek/activity

    Nope, I did not have a forum account on WTF prior to Jun 28, '15  and  there is an admission of delays to another customer here in March 2015 so this statement is a lie.

    He was refunded to resolve his gripes.
    It did not resolve my gripes. Shipment of a product or an apology for the repeated delays and may have.

    He refused the refund.
    Seems reasonable as I did not want a refund. I wanted a keyboard I had paid for. 
    We preemptively shipped him a paper check,
    Yes you did with a hand written note.
    which he cashed only after a prolonged delay.
    I still have that cheque in my possession, a cursory glance at your records would see that it was never cashed. So another lie. 

    Legal was taken advice and the refund button on the cancelled order pressed to get a refund to the original card, and I was told not to waste anymore time trying to get that order reinstated. After all it was not the only order at stake.

    He threatened bodily harm to forum members - something about using a TextBlade to impale a body in a somewhat graphically violent manner.

    Apparently the linked post above in 'ah yes threats', so a lie. Unless someone was using "Marketer" as a pseudonym...

    We removed his posting rights.
    Not the entire story is it? You changed your forum settings creating a new class of 'non posting' member, required only users with current orders be allowed to post on WTF. 

    You also banned my wife. For defending me. When I couldn't defend myself due to my ban. 

    After which I created an obvious duplicate account to point that out  Which was correctly banned as a duplicate.

    He jumped over to the macrumors forum, where he could post unchecked.

    No you banned me from WTF in Sep 2015. I did not have a Macrumors account before Feb 22, 2016  after Macrumors had already discontinued coverage. My first post contained an apology to Juli for any offence I may have caused during my Reddit posting. All of which is available for review. 

    He stalked, overloaded, impugned the integrity of reporting, and ultimately so spooked the editor, the only option was to end coverage.
    My first interaction with the editor was my first post on Macrumors and contained an apology. I arrived 

    And he works with confederate pseudonym id’s too.

    That is an interesting claim. I work in a field outside of consumer technology on unrelated matters. However Waytools_support does not act with confederate 
    pseudonymous ids at all. "looks at public TREG list" 

    To those TREG members on the public TREG list, no offence meant, your user handle is your own affair as is the protection or relinquishment of your anonymity. None of my business what you guy choose,  but WT clearly does not like it one little bit. 

    As for wanting consumers not to buy your product, this thoroughly misrepresents my position. I want consumers to be informed and make the own decisions. 

    Following the Waytools saga is something of a hobby for me. I may write a book on the topic in my dotage, probably not under a pseudonym though. I may go the whole hog and obtain a nom de guerre.

    - Design HQ is in Santa Monica (Silicon Beach, where William visited).

    I did not query that. It seemed pointless as that where your other business interests

    - Production is in Malaysia.
    I did not query that. Offsite is offsite. 

    - Pallets from factory, containing 320 hardware sets per carton, were seen on William’s visit.
    So there are 320 units per pallet. Sounds reasonable. 

    - General Release will be held, until new firmware infrastructure tests good for mass release.
    So after you have finished them. 

    - Essentially that new firmware gives us lots of running room to respond to user requests to advance the product, as well as support.
    New is better than old. One would hope so as the other way round would be a poor investment of time

    - TextBlade is more computer than switchbox.  The firmware is like apps on your phone.
    I think a better analogy is probably the operating system. You could remove an app and the device is still functional, the OS would need to be replaced. Can your product function as the textblade without it's firmware? 

    - You wouldn’t buy a new phone just to get a new app with new functions.
    No but you might if your phone no longer supports the latest IOS or Android distributions. 

    - TextBlade is that kind of platform, so the firmware needs to make lots of new apps easy, without replacing hardware.
    That sounds like the firmware is intrinsic to the product. 

    - This is unprecedented for a keyboard, but it’s now possible.
    Yeah but you could have admitted the units on pallets were hardware complete only straight away, rather than spend your time personally attacking me in a public forum. 

    I would say that would mean that "finished" might be
     unwittingly overstating the completeness of the palletised product.

    A reader's mileage may vary. 

    You are well aware of where the Textblade subreddit is and you are welcome to come there and respond to any and all threads there. No one is stopping you, and if you feel it would not be as productive as the time you have spent here then I think people will understand. 

    R

    Edit: Removed a rogue "is", and a few tense issues sorted for accuracy.





    edited April 2019 arkorott
  • Reply 91 of 1615
    Covering a number of posts and posters' comments:

    >The problem is you, DBK, which includes your posts in their entirety.

    Weird that there are complaints about HOW I post ("too long", etc), but lots of ignoring about WHAT I write - which was to address concerns another poster had. Might have given him more info than he wanted. But even if so, so what? It was all accurate and he can decide how much he wants to read.

    Then, of course, there are the snide remarks, like, "no Snoke involved unless you count DBK".

    Taking another critic's comment: "They should at least be shipped to additional TREG candidates, if not GR"

    Many people have made counters to that argument which I have never seen a good response to (usually no response at all). That is that it makes little sense to have too many treg members who are very active at one time. Can a company really handle 100,000 (or 10,000 or any other sizable number) at one time all discovering things for the first time (thus more active)? I don't think so. One can argue about how many is best, but the assumption that if you have units, they should be shipped out to more testers isn't a solid argument.

    What WT has done is start small, adding people over time - which means while the total number of testers goes up, those who have had it for a longer time are almost certainly reporting a lot less since their issues have often been resolved. But the new people would be more active, but without the net result overloading the system.

    On the matter of the author of the MacRumors article being attacked. Well, she was. People complaining that it hadn't shipped yet so she shouldn't have written what she did, ignoring the fact that the author began and ended the article pointing that out (that would be the two most valuable parts of an article).
    As for "customer" vs "tester", I can see both views, but it is also wrong to think it must be one or the other. Here's why:

    WayTools no doubt has people in house doing testing (even if it is just the engineers). Thus, even if they posted their "personal experiences", it is coming from a biased source (does not mean they are being dishonest or even letting bias get the best of them). But any reader is going to think of it as a biased source.

    This is why when the MR author got one to use, it should have been a very big deal. Finally someone outside the company giving their real life experiences! Except she was immediately attacked, so we lost that important source of info.

    Which brings us to Treg members. Once again, we have people who are not from WayTools able to give their experiences (the NDA has very few restrictions and none prevent us from telling our experience with the TextBlade). Posts from testers who are ALSO CUSTOMERS is much better than posts from testers who are paid by WT.

    So, those who have been critical, how did they respond? Pretty much like they did with the MR author - they attacked the testers. Claims that we really are WT employees, claims that we were chosen for always cheerleading Waytools (which is, btw, simply a lie - if you bothered to look at the list of treggers and read their posts before being chosen, you would find some very critical posts of Waytools. And of those who have often defended WT (such as myself), you'd still find criticisms of them too.

    Of course, this reality can't be allowed to stand so we got comments about pretending to criticize for street cred, or claims, after a critic was selected, that they sold out or were afraid to speak negatively in fear they would lose use of their TB. And, my favorite, that we suffer from "Stockholm Syndrome".

    One personal attack, ignoring clear facts, over and over again.

    Now, I don't know if any of them work for another keyboard company. Maybe WT knows some of them. Maybe they don't. Personally, I think if you aren't going to provide detailed proof, it is best to just not say anything about it. But they were regularly misrepresenting or making stuff up about WT and the testers.


  • Reply 92 of 1615
    We don’t think any customer would like being told they’re merely a ‘tester’, not a real customer.

    We understand why others may try to erase what’s already accomplished. 
    Then why is TREG okay, where the word 'test' is in its very name?

    Tester is used to distinguish between actual customers and TREGers, because after you started the TREG program and shipped the first few units, you immediately began flaunting that you have "SHIPPED TO CUSTOMERS", something to which many forum members called you out on, and you even acknowledged at one point.

    Yet you continue to juggle between TREGers and customers depending on convenience.

    But what's wrong with tester? I would have loved to have been a tester, as would many others. But I would know that as a tester, I'm not really a customer. One is not lower than the other. Any perceived hierarchy is of YOUR own making.

    On the other hand, your liberal usage of "alter-egos", "pseudonyms", "agents", etc. are of more insidious, vindictive nature, does it not?
    arkorott
  • Reply 93 of 1615
    Welcome to the curious world of Rolanbek.  (one pseudonym, from his rich catalog of alt identities)


    One $99 purchase.  Refunded more than 3 years ago.

    That small voided transaction, would spawn a torrent, approaching a thousand posts across multiple fora, emails and other media.

    And like the post above, often tortuously scripted, laboriously written, and laced with dark tones.  

    Collectively over time, many man-months of labor focused on a mission.

    Not quite your typical consumer looking for a good keyboard.


    He prefers unmoderated venues like this one.  In this thread, you’ve seen some of his spin methods, and id’s.

    While on our forum, he gave it a good flooding, that pretty well shut down useful conversation for a bit.


    Clearly, he’s back on the job.




  • Reply 94 of 1615
    ericpeets said:
    We don’t think any customer would like being told they’re merely a ‘tester’, not a real customer.

    We understand why others may try to erase what’s already accomplished. 
    Then why is TREG okay, where the word 'test' is in its very name?

    Tester is used to distinguish between actual customers and TREGers, because after you started the TREG program and shipped the first few units, you immediately began flaunting that you have "SHIPPED TO CUSTOMERS", something to which many forum members called you out on, and you even acknowledged at one point.
    Nothing wrong with "tester". But waytools didn't say that was wrong. They said, and you quoted, them pointing out we were not "merely" a tester or "not a real customer".

    We are simply both. Why is that hard to understand? It is also interesting that another who has made an issue about this in the past claimed we weren't "testers", over and over again. Even though we were, surprise, testing! But it was all part of a way to demean treg members, just not as bad as claiming we had "stockholm syndrome".

    Anyway, in this case "tester" should NOT distinguish between actual customers and TREGers, because we are both actual customers AND TREGers!

    As for the complaint that they said "SHIPPED TO CUSTOMERS" when Treg started (and yes, forum members called them on it and they acknowledged it), just thought I'd remind you that I was one of those who called them on it - in my usual detailed AND THOROUGH way. And their acknowledgement was directly in response to my post. You know, the guy who keeps being accused of always defending WT even though I don't. :)

    Heck, I'll criticize them right now! They have given us too many, very limited date-range, times for getting us another major update. Being VERY late on GR is far more understandable than missing an original update projecting of just a few days that has now lasted months! Oh, I can see things that can cause even those delays. But not for this long. Maybe some changes would mean some update stuff planned would be removed, but not the whole update!

    See? It's easy to criticize. And WT may not like me doing it. But it is a legitimate complaint. Not overstated or exaggerated. Not demanding things that a company may legitimately not reveal at this time (or even any time).

    I'll even cover some specifics. I won't ask when GR will be because I know that with this kind of device (supported by past history) can have too many surprises. But I will ask:

    1. Can you give any idea when the new firmware will be made available for testers?

    2. Can you, at least in broad strokes, explain what the main remaining problems are (if any - since it could be they are satisfied with it, but still need to finish the new fork so they are only supporting one main version rather than two upon GR). For example, even with the problems any BT device may have, do you consider that "good enough" now? Are there any new hardware problems to be addressed? What percentage of odd, intermittent problems are you finding in your test groups? (I wouldn't expect much on this, but it is fair to ask).

    3. New treg membership has slowed in recent months. Will we soon see notably more chosen from the forums?

    4. Of course, any technical info they may be willing to release, but most customers probably will care least about these details so hopefully we get more of the other stuff.


  • Reply 95 of 1615
    Ericpeet / rolanbek / arkorott / etc, etc  - et al, collectively

    Not complicated -

    1. Customer = bought a TextBlade 

    2. TREG = Test RElease Group


    So if you’re a customer, you might be helping in TREG too.

    Test Release as in software release.  Not Test person.


    Rolanbek’s cheeky self-description -

    “semi-retired sociopath for hire. 

    Considered in the industries in which i worked as variously: "A necessary evil""As fun as a claymore mine in your cornflakes, filled with bees" and who could forget "Like the voice telling you to jump".


    Like we said, dark.

  • Reply 96 of 1615
    More BS, lies and accusations from Waytools HQ:

    Press Coverage on New Tech and its Challenges

    <..comparison with Apple's airpower...>

    That didn’t hurt MR or AI reputations for covering it.  They just reported the news.  No one blamed the publications for Apple’s travails.

    Apple has a lot of media cred, since they shipped hundreds of products, and on time. You, on the other hand, have none. The launch of the textblade was your main opportunity to get one cred with a media outlet, but you blew it. Not by the delay of your product, but because you didn't tell MR about the delay. That's why they had to do an update. And you don't really get a 3rd chance, esp. if you have no cred to back you up. Hence, them cutting off ties with you.

    Targeted Abuse of a Journalist 

    So what is different here?

    < ... more crazy conspiracy theory BS ...>

    There was genuine concern for safety, because of the extreme nature of the harassment.  

    < ... padded with more crazy conspiracy theories ...>

    Yet you did nothing. You didn't report it to MR, alert the author, flag the comment(s) or even enter the conversation to try to stop it. Which makes you a coward, doesn't it? You are certainly not a model citizen. Or maybe what happened is that there was NO cause for concern, and you're making all this up. Again, all this is easily verifiable, you know? I guess you're willing to risk your credibility, since you have none.

    If a reporter thought a manufacturer were doing something wrong, they’d just call them out on it in a story, and affirm their objectivity.

    That would require her to write another article, which she did several months after the first article. But she stated more than once she didn't want to do any more because 1) your constant delays have caused her stress and 2) there was nothing new out of your company.

    She stated as much on the comments of the second article before she cut any relationships with your company. Again, it's all verifiable and just sitting there on MR's site, if you just bother to look at it. But you will not.

    That’s what forced the intervention, ending coverage, just as the abusers hoped to achieve.  

    That abuser was a user named KaliYoni, by the way, one of the longtime members of MR. Be that as it may, what do you think would make a report quit reporting on a company? An insult in the comments by an obscure user or a company they wrote positively about that failed to deliver. One snide comment by some user in the comments does not make or break a reporter's reputation. The content of their story not panning out does.

    Aside from that comment by KaliYoni, most the discussion in the comments was about what a crooked company you are. Yep, it's all there if you just bother to look. Sure kept Dabigkahuna busy, and I suspect it contributed to his ban by the site admin. Or maybe it was when he began copy/pasting everything on Waytools forum onto MR, so desperate was he to drown out the general negativity against your company, that did him in. I don't know. Maybe MR was afraid of another typhoon of spam from Kahuna that contributed to their ending relations with you. So maybe it was Kahuna who ultimately ended the relationships. Again, I don't know.

    But I know that they mainly ended relationship with you because of YOU, not some comment made by an obscure member. No matter how you spin with your crazy conspiracy theories, it's all out there and you can't erase it.

    I'm going to a Game of Thrones party with friends. maybe I'll comment on the rest of your BS later.
  • Reply 97 of 1615

    Welcome to the curious world of Rolanbek.  (one pseudonym, from his rich catalog of alt identities)

    < ... yet more accusations at Rolanbk ...>


    And of course you have proof, right? You've done at least basic homework this time?

    Not complicated -
    1. Customer = bought a TextBlade 
    2. TREG = Test RElease Group

    So if you’re a customer, you might be helping in TREG too.
    Test Release as in software release.  Not Test person.
    Then why use the term TREG at all? Why have you come up with it? You can't, because not not all "customers" have received it, right?

    Don't be coy, you know the subtle differences and you use them tactically. You also use terms like "firmware" vs "software" vs "code fork" vs "mainline". You feign ignorance when confronted like this, yet you use them a quite lot, to your benefit to color your prose and point.
  • Reply 98 of 1615
    ericpeets said:
    maybe it was when he began copy/pasting everything on Waytools forum onto MR
    Really? Or are you just making that up? I'm sure I did copy stuff. Hardly anything unusual about people doing so if it is part of the information they are trying to provide. But most of the stuff were my own statements.

    >Then why use the term TREG at all? Why have you come up with it? You can't, because not not all "customers" have received it, right?

    You're kidding, right? Okay, I'll walk you through it:

    1. Big group of people who are customers who ordered the TB.

    2. Much smaller group of people who, while part of the first, larger, group, are also helping with testing of the TB.

    3. That smaller group is listed as the "Test RElease Group" (TREG). Often referred to as treggers, treg members, etc.

    To ONLY call them "testers" would require that they are not part of the first group. But they are, so you can't call then only testers.

    to ONLY call them "customers" would mean you aren't showing who is a customer and who is a customer who is ALSO a testers.

    Nothing confusing about it - other than why you act like you don't understand it.
  • Reply 99 of 1615
    Yes, definitely! We hear you, ericpeets et al.  

    Looking at those last couple posts, definitely channeling your inner sociopath for hire.  We can feel it man!
  • Reply 100 of 1615
    Yeah, yeah - definitely.


    That’s how you summoned just the right tone to abuse that editor!  

    Definitely. Claymore mines in her cornflakes, breakfast email sort of thing, that’ll do it.

    Totally feeling it man.  Even Shrek’s donkey can feel that connection.  


    And for sure, the best cover - just point to the nerds. Their tech did it.  Yeah, there’s the culprit.

    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

    You know, the sociopath for hire, the abuse made to order!

    Shut down the writer, and dis the inventors in one neat step.

    Brilliant, perfect crime!




This discussion has been closed.