Editorial: Why is Samsung's Galaxy Fold graded on a curve?

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 67
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 303member

    k2kw said:

    1. Deiter Bohn is the ultimate Android apologist - much like DED for Apple.
    2. You certainly are implying that there is something wrong with Stern's relationship with Samsung. Are you actually saying she's paid off and if so how so? I'm thrilled that Stern took Apple to task for continuing problems with the butterfly keyboard 3 years after introduction and a couple design tweeks. Apple holds the WSJ's writing high enough that they are putting it in News+.
    3. Gruber definitely gets more inside information than you. It's a sign that many at Apple hold him in more respect. Your writing would probably get more respect if you stopped being the "High Sparrow" of Apple writing.
    4. I see stories all over the place that the Fold is breaking. They are not covering it up or minimizing it. This article is more a payback for negative articles over Apple's failure to deliver AirPower. still smarting.
    5. If Samsung does get this working, Apple will gladly source them as a supplier like with the OLED screen on the iPhone X and XS. Apple is now longer "Thermonuclear" with Samsung obviously. And of course Samsung will sell it to Apple because they will make more money as a supplier.
    First learn how to quote like a person who respects other's time. 
    Second, you're choosing to be an anonymous commenter who is rude and condescending..  
    Now, aren't both these sentences ironic, coming from "Corrections"...?
    bigtdsavon b7k2kwmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 67
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    IreneW said:

    k2kw said:

    1. Deiter Bohn is the ultimate Android apologist - much like DED for Apple.
    2. You certainly are implying that there is something wrong with Stern's relationship with Samsung. Are you actually saying she's paid off and if so how so? I'm thrilled that Stern took Apple to task for continuing problems with the butterfly keyboard 3 years after introduction and a couple design tweeks. Apple holds the WSJ's writing high enough that they are putting it in News+.
    3. Gruber definitely gets more inside information than you. It's a sign that many at Apple hold him in more respect. Your writing would probably get more respect if you stopped being the "High Sparrow" of Apple writing.
    4. I see stories all over the place that the Fold is breaking. They are not covering it up or minimizing it. This article is more a payback for negative articles over Apple's failure to deliver AirPower. still smarting.
    5. If Samsung does get this working, Apple will gladly source them as a supplier like with the OLED screen on the iPhone X and XS. Apple is now longer "Thermonuclear" with Samsung obviously. And of course Samsung will sell it to Apple because they will make more money as a supplier.
    First learn how to quote like a person who respects other's time. 
    Second, you're choosing to be an anonymous commenter who is rude and condescending..  
    Now, aren't both these sentences ironic, coming from "Corrections"...?
    He's not anonymous.
    StrangeDayspscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 67
    This is just added to the long list of products Samsung produces that no one ever asked for.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 67
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 303member
    Soli said:
    IreneW said:

    k2kw said:

    1. Deiter Bohn is the ultimate Android apologist - much like DED for Apple.
    2. You certainly are implying that there is something wrong with Stern's relationship with Samsung. Are you actually saying she's paid off and if so how so? I'm thrilled that Stern took Apple to task for continuing problems with the butterfly keyboard 3 years after introduction and a couple design tweeks. Apple holds the WSJ's writing high enough that they are putting it in News+.
    3. Gruber definitely gets more inside information than you. It's a sign that many at Apple hold him in more respect. Your writing would probably get more respect if you stopped being the "High Sparrow" of Apple writing.
    4. I see stories all over the place that the Fold is breaking. They are not covering it up or minimizing it. This article is more a payback for negative articles over Apple's failure to deliver AirPower. still smarting.
    5. If Samsung does get this working, Apple will gladly source them as a supplier like with the OLED screen on the iPhone X and XS. Apple is now longer "Thermonuclear" with Samsung obviously. And of course Samsung will sell it to Apple because they will make more money as a supplier.
    First learn how to quote like a person who respects other's time. 
    Second, you're choosing to be an anonymous commenter who is rude and condescending..  
    Now, aren't both these sentences ironic, coming from "Corrections"...?
    He's not anonymous.
    No, we all know it is DED, even though he never says so.
    bigtdsmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 45 of 67


    bulk001 said:
    It is not being graded on a curve. The financial press is highlighting the issue and the stock got slammed. No need to be overly sensitive and paranoid about it. 
    Not only that, every tech site and tech youtuber is reporting on it.  People say DED editorials have a reputation for over the top disproportionate outrage.  After reading this and the last editorial, I'm inclined to agree.  A cursory glance at the internet shows Samsung being handed their ass in a hat.
    Ok so this is really simple so I'll just briefly lay it out. But I clearly wasn't actually saying that nobody was critical of Samsung, in a article where I myself am being critical, and in which I quoted various criticisms. I'm noting that big media sites have not been raising alarm that Samsung's phone units went down twice as fast as Apple, etc. And yet for Apple it is spoken of as being in end times. I can really spend any more time making this simpler. If you can't tell some bloggers (including me) from national media coverage, come on.

    Second, its not just the presence of criticism, but the extent and interpretation of that. Sure, Apple does get/deserve more attention/criticism because it sells the most and rules profits and is out ahead everywhere that commercial matters. However, if thats the case then Verge et all should dial down their constant equation of Apple and Samsung, or Pixel, or whatever Android talking points they have, and give them as some sort of unbiased opinion. A $999 iPhone X is shocking, but a $2000 Fold prototype is really reasonable given the satisfying click.

     


     
    Your observations tend to overlook fundamental truths.  Chief among them is Apple is judged differently because Apple has risen beyond a tech brand to being part of the cultural fabric.  That is not what Samsung is.  Samsung is simply the closest tech competitor that Apple has.  Samsung is typically judged as such; an Apple competitor.  They are not on the same level of cultural significance.  You expecting media to react the same for each company is unrealistic.  I'm pretty sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.   

    Your arguments wouldn't be so bad if they didn't come across as petulant and kind of unhinged.  Someone above said it best, you come off as the High Sparrow of Apple.  Your points present as a scattershot collection of badly parsed quotes, shade, outright aggressive negativity, and tenuous logic connections.  An example of the latter is in your last sentence to me:
    "A $999 iPhone X is shocking, but a $2000 Fold prototype is really reasonable given the satisfying click. "
    The $1000 iPhone was a shock... in 2017  A big part of that shock was being the first mainstream phone to debut with that sticker price.  It was a shock for Apple supporters and detractors alike.  Fast forward in time, more phones break that $1K barrier and no, it's not as shocking.  The Fold at $2K raises and eyebrow, but nearly universally every reviewer says no one should buy it.  

    To borrow from your line.  Okay, this is really simple so I'll tl;dr it.  Apple's influence and reach far outstrips Samsung's.  They are never going to be compared the same until either Apple's influence wanes, or Samsung's influence increases.  

      
    Your comment made me think you might be onto something.  And I get your point.  However, the bottom line is that the criticism of Apple is not in service to society or cultural advancement, is it?  Just look at it; it’s petty, virtually always proven over time to be fundamentally off base, and outright incorrect.  The motivation doesn’t align with your premise.  And the effect doesn’t serve society.  
    The argument your making is for a separate tangential point.  The premise DED argued was Samsung isn't judged as harshly as Apple.  I'd agree.  They also aren't as effusively praised as Apple either.  This is where cultural relevance comes into play.  People care more about Apple - be it positive or negative - and it elicits magnified responses.  I seriously doubt Samsung will ever grow to have that level of influence.  The bottom line isn't whether or not criticism of Apple is in service to society or cultural advancement.  My premise has nothing to do with that.  If I'm honest, I don't even know what that even means.  But I do know it has nothing to do with my premise.  My premise is pretty simple.  Samsung and Apple operate on different levels of expectation in the public eye.  

    Maybe this analogy will help sum up my premise.  Tiger Woods is Apple.  No matter what he does, good or bad, it's going to move the needle in dramatic ways.  Dustin Johnson is Samsung.  Even though he is the world's #1 ranked golfer and Samsung is the world's #1 seller of phones, there's nothing either of those two can do to move the needle like Tiger and Apple.  To expect that to be the case - as DED argues - makes no sense and is unrealistic.
    radarthekatmuthuk_vanalingamsingularity
  • Reply 46 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,844member

    Joana Stern of the Wall Street Journal just a few days ago dressed up as a butterfly to mock Apple over reports of keyboard problems on its MacBooks, demanding to know, "should $1,200 MacBooks be breaking due to dust and debris!? Absolutely not!"

    But for Samsung, she didn't put on a costume, nor did she compare the $1,980 price of the Galaxy Fold to Apple's notebooks, nor wonder out loud if debris should ever cause damage to an expensive device. Nor did she offer any specific advice to Samsung's CEO.

    Instead, she presented, without comment, Samsung's official statement, which minimized the problem as being "a few reports" from "a limited number of Galaxy Fold samples." And that occured just after her mocking of Apple's statement that "a small number of users were having issues" with the MacBook keyboard, a device that shipped to tens of millions of production users, not a few hundred influencer shills..
    Agreed, Stern is simply an anti-Apple pro-troll, not surprisingly as an ex-Verge pro-troll. She doesn't hold other vendors to the same criteria she's building her career holding Apple to. Hack.
    Dan_Dilgerwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 47 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,844member

    flydog said:
    This article manufactures a non-existent controversy to justify its existence. I haven’t seen any evidence that Samsung is treated differently than Apple in the press or the public eye.  
    Read the article, then. Stern of the WSJ is having a field day over Apple's "very small number of users affected", but not chastising Samsung for the same statement.
    Dan_Dilgerwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 48 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,844member

    k2kw said:


    Joana Stern of the Wall Street Journal just a few days ago dressed up as a butterfly to mock Apple over reports of keyboard problems on its MacBooks, demanding to know, "should $1,200 MacBooks be breaking due to dust and debris!? Absolutely not!"

    But for Samsung, she didn't put on a costume, nor did she compare the $1,980 price of the Galaxy Fold to Apple's notebooks, nor wonder out loud if debris should ever cause damage to an expensive device. Nor did she offer any specific advice to Samsung's CEO.

    Instead, she presented, without comment, Samsung's official statement, which minimized the problem as being "a few reports" from "a limited number of Galaxy Fold samples." And that occured just after her mocking of Apple's statement that "a small number of users were having issues" with the MacBook keyboard, a device that shipped to tens of millions of production users, not a few hundred influencer shills.

    While she did earlier point out that dirty MacBook keyboards can be resolved with a can of air, or even using "Unshakey" a software utility designed to ignore repeating keys, that came shortly before recommending that users switch to a Microsoft Surface Book, a product with a poor reliability record. Last year, Consumer Reports called out Surface for "poor predicted reliability in comparison with laptops from other brands."

    A can of air or some software isn't going to fix a Galaxy fold with a buckling crease and torn open holes in its OLED panel, but Stern didn't have anything to say about Galaxy Fold that might harm her relationship with Samsung.

    Stern was also a leading apologist for Samsung during the Note 7 fires in 2016, suggesting that the botched rollout of its defective by design battery-- and then the company's badly handled, multi-billion dollar recall-- would have no affect on customers' perceptions of the company.

    Instead, Stern and Geoffrey A. Fowler attempted to first minimize and then associate Samsung's bad design with Apple, writing that "there's no reason to believe other Samsung models are dangerous," shortly before citing an anecdotal story of an iPhone 7 that was also said to have caught fire in a posting on Reddit, a false equivalency that would embarrass any journalism student.

    Stern had just stepped up to advise Apple's chief executive Tim Cook to give up the company's stance on consumer privacy and join Google and Facebook in engaging in massive data collection to exploit users with targeted tracking and profiling.

    "While I applaud and appreciate your assurance of privacy," Stern told Cook in print, "my worry is that you simply can't afford to maintain that mentality when the competition has such a great advantage."

    Yet I couldn't find any similar advice from Stern or anyone else at the Wall Street Journal chiding Samsung's executives by name over the boondoggle of Note 7 battery fires that year; or the gimmicky, failed face recognition and other flawed design choices of Galaxy S8 detailed by Neil Cybart of Above Avalon in 2017; or the high prices, low approval, and subsequent "lower than expected" sales that hit Galaxy S9 last year.

    It's as if Samsung doesn't need any condescending advice from a blogger with a terrible track record of always being on the wrong side of tech history. Yet it's not just bloggers with cozy relationships to Samsung that sound like they are forced to make excuses for the company.

    Notable Apple blogger John Gruber just tweeted, in a conversation about the double standard of how the media handles Apple compared to Samsung, that "Apple does not make what I'm calling 'boutique phones.' Galaxy Fold and Galaxy 5G are boutique phones, not meant to sell in serious quantities. They can fail and Samsung is OK."

    1. Deiter Bohn is the ultimate Android apologist - much like DED for Apple.
    2. You certainly are implying that there is something wrong with Stern's relationship with Samsung. Are you actually saying she's paid off and if so how so? I'm thrilled that Stern took Apple to task for continuing problems with the butterfly keyboard 3 years after introduction and a couple design tweeks. Apple holds the WSJ's writing high enough that they are putting it in News+.
    3. Gruber definitely gets more inside information than you. It's a sign that many at Apple hold him in more respect. Your writing would probably get more respect if you stopped being the "High Sparrow" of Apple writing.
    4. I see stories all over the place that the Fold is breaking. They are not covering it up or minimizing it. This article is more a payback for negative articles over Apple's failure to deliver AirPower. still smarting.
    5. If Samsung does get this working, Apple will gladly source them as a supplier like with the OLED screen on the iPhone X and XS. Apple is now longer "Thermonuclear" with Samsung obviously. And of course Samsung will sell it to Apple because they will make more money as a supplier.
    You're nuts. Gruber gets info because he isn't a columnist writing for a rumors site. He's a pundit writing for his own blog. He's usually good, but he's an entirely different publication than AI. As such the outlets are "managed" by Apple PR differently. 
    edited April 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 67
    1348513485 Posts: 343member
    mr lizard said:

    Samsung’s culture is such that it desires to be seen to be first, and has no qualms with failing publicly. They’re not pretending to be perfect, and so the media and their customers don’t treat them as trying to be perfect. 
    Sorry, what a load.

    "Not pretending to be perfect". I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that on the packaging, in the ads, or on your receipt when you fork over the $2,000. "Um, not really a real thing, just kinda a proof of concept we're playing around with in the lab. No one said it was supposed to work."

    "Not pretending to be perfect": Now that I understand what I'm supposed to expect from Samsung products, it dovetails perfectly with the pricey Samsung side-by-side refrigerator we bought. Stopped working after five months. There were no--as in zero--refrigerator repair shops that would even work on a Samsung. Even the big box "L" store where we bought it would not take it back and could not themselves even find a repair shop. With no further prompting they decided to let us keep the stainless box of junk and sent us a full refund. 

    PS: I fixed it myself, and kept the money.
    radarthekatwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 50 of 67
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    13485 said:
    "Not pretending to be perfect": Now that I understand what I'm supposed to expect from Samsung products, it dovetails perfectly with the pricey Samsung side-by-side refrigerator we bought. Stopped working after five months. There were no--as in zero--refrigerator repair shops that would even work on a Samsung. Even the big box "L" store where we bought it would not take it back and could not themselves even find a repair shop. With no further prompting they decided to let us keep the stainless box of junk and sent us a full refund. 
    Your experience with the Samsung refrigerator mirrors a number of reports I've gotten from people I know. Samsung quality is terrible. If for some reason I had to get an Android phone, I'd get nearly anything before I'd try a Samsung.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 67
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    IMHO, of course some will judge harshly about Apple in comparison to Sammy - beat up Apple will give you more  publicity for one (rise your "influence"), and possibly please the short seller as two (sammy short is not that profitable, unless their chip plant burn down - they are not rely on the handset for bread and butter - correction, rice and bulgogi....).  of course there is no fair-ness, the balance just not even from all angles... ;-).  World peace ;-).  
  • Reply 52 of 67
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,361member
    I don't like the tone of this article. You are better than this, @AppleInsider ;

    That aside, I had no idea that the Fold was released until today. And today (now) I've also learned that it breaks on day two. That's super unfortunate. That's not just casting a shadow on Samsung, but on the industry as a whole. Flexible displays hold a lot of promise for a number of applications. It's not good when a big player comes out with an implementation that breaks after two days of use. Samsung must have known. It must have been a product launch where they just wanted to make a stir, and launch the concept into the real world… to see how people reacted?? Then by the next build, next year, influencers can review it and tell the world how much they have improved?? I have no idea what I'm talking about. I just have a feeling it must have been launched with an agenda... rather than having this iteration of the product in mind.
  • Reply 53 of 67
    I love reading your angry scathing editorials! It’s no surprise to me that the tech press (which I stopped reading many years ago, present company excluded) continue to overly criticise Apple; they’ve done so since the 1990’s. They grew up hating Apple for allegedly being too expensive, closed and dictatorial. That’s understandable given that techie people like toys to tinker with and so it’s unlikely to change. What does fascinate me though are the numbers that you always present. The business / finance journalists really have no excuse for their misleading reporting. Keep up the good work. I’d love to read an editorial about Apple and the environment for Earth Day. How do Apple’s competitors compare on that front do you think? 
    edited April 2019 tenthousandthingsradarthekatjony0
  • Reply 54 of 67
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,292member
    Jesus Christ, the fucking Samsung supporters, trolls, apologists, and morons are on this discussion in full force!

    I’d say in that case, mission accomplished DED! Only when they come out blathering with their insanity do you know you’ve done a good job!
    radarthekatpscooter63watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 55 of 67
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member

    You forgot about Pippin, Airpower, Mighty Mouse/Pencil 1 charging, iPhone 4 frame antenna’s, Lightning cables, bendable iPhone 6, iPad Pro,

    And a generic lack of RAM - as fanboys seem to have adopted themselves internally.


    Pippin was a licensed Classic Mac OS console sold by Bandai of TMNT fame, but bravo on the reach. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 67
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    Ouch... I usually enjoy your articles, but this feels a little heavy handed (even for you)  and I’m not entirely sure it’s accurate.  
    I’m unconvinced that Samsung/Apple reporting is as dramatically unbalanced as you seem to believe.

    Ok here’s your turd sandwich. Read this and tell me it’s something that would have been written about Apple Watch if gen zero have been literally falling apart on day 2. 

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/18/tech/samsung-galaxy-fold-breaking-debacle/index.html

    And note the headline was euphemized into “Samsung Galaxy Fold phones are breaking. Here's why it doesn't matter”

    boom
    GG1pscooter63watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 57 of 67
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    palegolas said:
    I don't like the tone of this article. You are better than this, @AppleInsider ;

    That aside, I had no idea that the Fold was released until today. And today (now) I've also learned that it breaks on day two. That's super unfortunate. That's not just casting a shadow on Samsung, but on the industry as a whole. Flexible displays hold a lot of promise for a number of applications. It's not good when a big player comes out with an implementation that breaks after two days of use. Samsung must have known. It must have been a product launch where they just wanted to make a stir, and launch the concept into the real world… to see how people reacted?? Then by the next build, next year, influencers can review it and tell the world how much they have improved?? I have no idea what I'm talking about. I just have a feeling it must have been launched with an agenda... rather than having this iteration of the product in mind.
    I see it differently. I give Samsung the benefit of the doubt that some bad pre-production units got out. This is, after all, an ambitious product, and I'm sure they tested the hell out of it.

    But the real story of folding phones is the engineering prowess of Samsung vs. Huawei. Samsung have always been viewed as the engineering leader for Android phones, so can Huawei get the best of Samsung (excepting these pre-production glitches)?
  • Reply 58 of 67
    Ouch... I usually enjoy your articles, but this feels a little heavy handed (even for you)  and I’m not entirely sure it’s accurate.  
    I’m unconvinced that Samsung/Apple reporting is as dramatically unbalanced as you seem to believe.

    Ok here’s your turd sandwich. Read this and tell me it’s something that would have been written about Apple Watch if gen zero have been literally falling apart on day 2. 

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/18/tech/samsung-galaxy-fold-breaking-debacle/index.html

    And note the headline was euphemized into “Samsung Galaxy Fold phones are breaking. Here's why it doesn't matter”

    boom
    Wow, that really is a stunning article. “But risk travels hand in hand with innovation, and something that companies have learned to embrace. Very rarely does a first-generation product — especially something as hyped up as this one — live up to expectations." The expensive product  is literally unusable just a few hours after being purchased. I can’t think of any other company making any other product that would be given a free pass in this way. 
    edited April 2019 nubusregurgitatedcoproliteDan_Dilgerradarthekatwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 59 of 67
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    AppleInsider said:
    Yet rather than being chided to act more 'age appropriate,' criticism of the company is nearly nonexistent. Instead, no matter how recklessly the company sets up its own face-planting failures, the tech media is ready to rush to pick it up off the floor and wipe the blood of its face as if it were a helplessly young tyke trying to ride a bike for the first time.
    OH... so this wasn't about Apple's MBP keyboard design?
    Sorry, yeah, I agree a folding phone is a completely stupid idea.
    Hopefully both companies will grow up.
  • Reply 60 of 67
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    I love reading your angry scathing editorials! It’s no surprise to me that the tech press (which I stopped reading many years ago, present company excluded) continue to overly criticise Apple; they’ve done so since the 1990’s. They grew up hating Apple for allegedly being too expensive, closed and dictatorial. That’s understandable given that techie people like toys to tinker with and so it’s unlikely to change. What does fascinate me though are the numbers that you always present. The business / finance journalists really have no excuse for their misleading reporting. Keep up the good work. I’d love to read an editorial about Apple and the environment for Earth Day. How do Apple’s competitors compare on that front do you think? 
    Thanks - always nice to hear from people who appreciate reading. 

    The tech industry has been really wasteful, sloppy and irresponsible for decades. Apple started addressing this as soon as it rose to prominence in the Jobs era, and Cook has made it a major aspect of everything Apple does. Clearly there is also a marketing benefit, but it is largely driven by Apple's culture.

    In fact, I once posed that question to Jobs and Cook at a shareholder meeting, where they were outlining various things Apple was doing that were not really public. I asked, why doesn't Apple make a bigger deal about this, advertise it, and basically leverage the value of what its doing to attract more business so that it can expand its efforts? And the response I got was, 'we're not doing this just for show, we're doing it because we think its the right thing to do.'

    To the cynical, that sounds like BS. But that really focuses Apple on actually doing the right thing, and building long term solutions on large scale, rather than just focusing on minor show off surface things to get attention. In the long run, the payoff is better, and you get to feel good about what you're doing, versus just knowing that everything you do is a sham. And a lot of companies pretty clearly do sham eco greenwashing to look good. And it has minimal benefits for their company, for them, or for the world they live in. 
    watto_cobrajony0
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