Purged screen time monitoring apps misused enterprise tools, Schiller says

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,700member
    The apps only "misused enterprise tools" because Apple refused to provide an official SDK that let the app developers do what the users wanted. Make no mistake this is fully intentional on Apple's part. Apple is very interested in limiting what users can do with their devices. This is why there is no real WiFi SDK, why the Bluetooth SDK is crippled, why apps are extremely restricted when they run in the background or with the screen off, why there are no third part Apple Watch faces, why you can't modify the user interface to suit your needs, why you can't side load apps, why there is no third party app store, why there is no professional mode, why their are no real code compilers on the iPad, why there are no virtual machines, why you can't mine cryptocurrency, why Home Kit sucks ...
    iOS is not macOS
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 40
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    Screen Time is the most useless feature of iOS and it created so much debate. Someone at Apple Marketing (and I'm afraid a very specific someone) apparently thought that putting such a lock in iOS would increase sales allowing parents to buy iPads and iPhones for their kids. Actually just the opposite is true: first this is a feature that will alienate kids to the platform. Second, kids make the purchase decision in most of the cases, if left to parents they purchase cheap Android crap.

    Here is the rationale: would you lock your kids into a room when they misbehave? No... Then you cannot lock your kids into a digital room either. There is already a tried and tested parental control architecture, screen time was not needed.
    edited April 2019
  • Reply 23 of 40
    majorslmajorsl Posts: 119unconfirmed, member
    The apps only "misused enterprise tools" because Apple refused to provide an official SDK that let the app developers do what the users wanted. Make no mistake this is fully intentional on Apple's part. Apple is very interested in limiting what users can do with their devices. This is why there is no real WiFi SDK, why the Bluetooth SDK is crippled, why apps are extremely restricted when they run in the background or with the screen off, why there are no third part Apple Watch faces, why you can't modify the user interface to suit your needs, why you can't side load apps, why there is no third party app store, why there is no professional mode, why their are no real code compilers on the iPad, why there are no virtual machines, why you can't mine cryptocurrency, why Home Kit sucks ...
    iOS is not macOS
    Not iOS yet. That is the stuff of nightmares.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 24 of 40
    dedgeckodedgecko Posts: 169member
    Screen Time is the most useless feature of iOS and it created so much debate. Someone at Apple Marketing (and I'm afraid a very specific someone) apparently thought that putting such a lock in iOS would increase sales allowing parents to buy iPads and iPhones for their kids. Actually just the opposite is true: first this is a feature that will alienate kids to the platform. Second, kids make the purchase decision in most of the cases, if left to parents they purchase cheap Android crap.

    Here is the rationale: would you lock your kids into a room when they misbehave? No... Then you cannot lock your kids into a digital room either. There is already a tried and tested parental control architecture, screen time was not needed.
    My wife and many of her friends love Screen Time, it’s helped them stay off social media for extended periods of time.  It has value for anyone that wishes to use it for its intended purchase. To say otherwise is just ignorant. 
    bonobobwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 40
    n2itivguyn2itivguy Posts: 103member
    I manage Apple products with a MDM (Filewave). I'm not a big fan of MDM profiles. Considering the way Google manages Chromebooks, Apple should bite the bullet & go all in on managing its own devices instead of giving the hooks for 3rd parties to do it.
    This would be a great fit for their services area. But operations like Jamf may lose big and that wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    n2itivguyn2itivguy Posts: 103member
    The apps only "misused enterprise tools" because Apple refused to provide an official SDK that let the app developers do what the users wanted. Make no mistake this is fully intentional on Apple's part. Apple is very interested in limiting what users can do with their devices. This is why there is no real WiFi SDK, why the Bluetooth SDK is crippled, why apps are extremely restricted when they run in the background or with the screen off, why there are no third part Apple Watch faces, why you can't modify the user interface to suit your needs, why you can't side load apps, why there is no third party app store, why there is no professional mode, why their are no real code compilers on the iPad, why there are no virtual machines, why you can't mine cryptocurrency, why Home Kit sucks ...
    One can get a PC or move to Android for such things. And when things on the device go awry, or the get hacked, or data/identity is stolen, or ransomeware, or, or, or…. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 40
    n2itivguyn2itivguy Posts: 103member
    Screen Time is the most useless feature of iOS and it created so much debate. Someone at Apple Marketing (and I'm afraid a very specific someone) apparently thought that putting such a lock in iOS would increase sales allowing parents to buy iPads and iPhones for their kids. Actually just the opposite is true: first this is a feature that will alienate kids to the platform. Second, kids make the purchase decision in most of the cases, if left to parents they purchase cheap Android crap.

    Here is the rationale: would you lock your kids into a room when they misbehave? No... Then you cannot lock your kids into a digital room either. There is already a tried and tested parental control architecture, screen time was not needed.
    I think what you’re trying to say is that parents should lead by example and teach their children moderation. It just didn’t sound like that, so I could be wrong. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 40
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Unfortunately the New York Times article you reference did not share our complete statement...”

    A lot of so-called “news outlets” seem to be guilty of doing that these days.
    cgWerkswatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 40
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,303member
    The NYT report wasn't "fake news," it was jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information, which the newspaper (and many technology websites) should properly be blamed for. There's a huge difference.

    People who think early reports are "fake news" are simpleminded nitwits who can't think critically or tell the difference between human error and propaganda.
    thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 40
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 429member
    Apple must be consistent with punative actions for App Store transgressions regardless of the developing entity.
  • Reply 31 of 40
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,152member
    n2itivguy said:
    I manage Apple products with a MDM (Filewave). I'm not a big fan of MDM profiles. Considering the way Google manages Chromebooks, Apple should bite the bullet & go all in on managing its own devices instead of giving the hooks for 3rd parties to do it.
    This would be a great fit for their services area. But operations like Jamf may lose big and that wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing. 
    I agree; it would be a great fit. Hurting other players hasn't stopped Apple in the past. Just look at what Apple did to Watson when they introduced Sherlock, for just one example.
  • Reply 32 of 40
    technotechno Posts: 737member
    I just wish Apple would make Screen Time work in a way that makes it truly useful. As it is, kids learn within an hour how to bypass it. It is rendered useless.
  • Reply 33 of 40
    citpekscitpeks Posts: 246member
    kimberly said:
    Apple must be consistent with punative actions for App Store transgressions regardless of the developing entity.
    It should, but that's not how the App Store operates.  While the Sphinx can act, it doesn't speak.

    Some transparency and feedback could have avoided this, and other incidents.

    If the apps broke roles and used private APIs, that's understood, and justifies their removal.  Inform the developers and engage in a straightforward dialogue to work it out.

    Why does it require the VP of Marketing to write a personal note to a user to help both developers and users get the straight story?

    Apple looks unnecessarily bad, the press writes inaccurate stores, and users are frustrated.

    Where is the respect for the developers and users who helped build the business?

    Continue down this path, and any trust in the App Store reviewers, and any benefit of the doubt Apple receives will eventually completely erode.  The App Store's reputation is what sets it apart, and users tolerate the lock-in because of that trust, but Apple doesn't seem to recognize that its actions sometimes appear counter to that even if they really do have users' interests at heart.
  • Reply 34 of 40
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    What about Saudi Arabia's wife tracking apps? Any misuse or abuse of human rights happening there par chance. 
  • Reply 35 of 40
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    "We treat all apps the same, including those that compete with our own services," Levine said...
    Heh, that was carefully worded, huh? They treat them all equally crappy when it comes to those that compete with their own services? :)

    chasm said:
    The NYT report wasn't "fake news," it was jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information, which the newspaper (and many technology websites) should properly be blamed for. There's a huge difference.

    People who think early reports are "fake news" are simpleminded nitwits who can't think critically or tell the difference between human error and propaganda.
    Agreed, but to be fair, I think 'fake news' has taken on a broader definition in general use now than the more accurate propaganda or malintent meaning.

    I just don't know enough here to make the call, but didn't they only include part of Apple's statement? Conveniently the part that make the story work? I'm not sure that is propaganda (if the case), but the MSM does that kind of thing all the time.

    They have a way they want to present the story, and then add/skip details and even edit things out of context to make the story work. I'm not sure that is outright propaganda, but I think whether it technically is or not, it's just about as bad.
    tht
  • Reply 36 of 40
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    apple ][ said:
    I remember reading the earlier article about this on this site and I also remember some of the ignorant comments.

    Many people who are easily manipulated and naive fell for the fake news from the NYT. 


    There is no fake news from NYT. NYT simply is REPORTING, accurately it seems, the positions of many developers. Were the developers lying? If you believe Schiller, then yes.  

    NYT was not faking anything if they accurately reported the allegations of the developers. 
  • Reply 37 of 40
    thttht Posts: 5,444member
    techno said:
    I just wish Apple would make Screen Time work in a way that makes it truly useful. As it is, kids learn within an hour how to bypass it. It is rendered useless.
    If they keep on bypassing it, you keep on restricting it. You don’t stop after they’ve learn to bypass it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 40
    thttht Posts: 5,444member
    mp9000 said:
    I simply wish Apple would make Screen Time work such that makes it really valuable. For what it's worth, kids realize inside an hour how to sidestep it. It is rendered futile.
    Really? How?
  • Reply 39 of 40
    toccaretoccare Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Let's not let our fanboydom for Apple blind us.  There's more to the story: https://freedom.to/blog/statement-from-freedom-about-the-app-store/
  • Reply 40 of 40
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    toccare said:
    Let's not let our fanboydom for Apple blind us.  There's more to the story: https://freedom.to/blog/statement-from-freedom-about-the-app-store/
    Yeah, this is basically something Apple should have never let these apps do in the first place, and now is having to ruin some businesses because of their incompetence. They should also have released an API to do so. And, the statement about treating developers like their own apps, is just plain baloney. It's right up there with 'legacy ports.' I sometimes wonder how Schiller sleeps at night. I suppose he's at least well paid.
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