I personally predict that whatever the new Mac Pro turns out to be it will be trashed viciously by the self-agrandized techie crowd. These types want to be able to saunter into a Fry’s or Micro Center, pick out some weird peripheral, stick it into their “Mac Pro” and have it work. That doesn’t even happen with self-assembled PCs but it will be a requirement for any new Mac Pro. You just watch and see.
"Some weird peripheral" like an industry standard NVMe m.2 SSD or an off-the-shelf GPU or, memory modules? Who in their right mind would WANT to saunter into a local parts store and upgrade their storage or graphics without having to take out a 2nd mortgage? That's just crazy thinking! /s
But, no doubt, Apple will rely on "proprietary connectors" and glued shut modules to ensure that whatever you want to do with your new "modular Mac", you'll have to get it at the Apple Store at 3-4X the cost of a standard part.
You mean like all those proprietary connects on today’s Macs - USB-C, USB..
Besides which, the “stacking Mac” rumor isnt based on anything (literally anything) other than Schiller’s use of the word modular. He may have simply been referring to a case + monitor for all we know.
Not that you're likely in the market for one anyways. MPs are single-digit sales of Macs sold. People love to complain about stuff they have no intention of buying.
They have no intention of buying because Apple can’t get a handle on what a “pro” user is. Thus the terrible sales figures you allude to. With the current Mac Pro Apple apparently tried to Appeal to the media pros with a platform that was incomplete and not suitable. At the same time they ignored the masses of pros that never needed a dual GPU machine.
Seriously how hard would it have been for Apple to pull one of the GPU cards and replace it with an M.2 carrier card. The reality is the vast majority of potential users of a “Mac Pro” do not need dual GPU cards and never had needed such. What they do need is one GPU that isn’t crap.
The real reason Apple isn’t seen as a manufacture of ”pro” computers anymore is directly due to their inability to grasp what a pro user is and what his needs are. You could see this in the crowd when the Mac Pro was released at WWDC, the product wasn’t even shipping and it was getting a cold shoulder. Apple failed in so many ways that it is hard to believe they have people managing the Mac product line with high school degrees - complete flunkies if you ask me. They couldn’t even be bothered to offer a complete system with monitor and storage array. That frankly isn’t appealing at all in the pro world.
which brings up another point if Apple really thinks that a 6K monitor will entice enough people to impact shipments they are effectively nuts. Sure a 6K monitor is needed, don’t get me wrong there but the larger segment of the market really wants a good economical 4K display supported by Apple. Pros in all their various forms need for Apple to provide the right solutions for their needs. That means a platform not a component that has to be pieced together from other manufactures parts.
Frankly i I really don’t think Apple gets it. They have done their best to market high priced machines that simply do not meet user needs. This has basically collapsed sales of their pro line. It would be like Ford trying to sell an $80,000 dump truck with a chassis that only handles 500 pounds of weight, all flash and no go!
I personally predict that whatever the new Mac Pro turns out to be it will be trashed viciously by the self-agrandized techie crowd. These types want to be able to saunter into a Fry’s or Micro Center, pick out some weird peripheral, stick it into their “Mac Pro” and have it work. That doesn’t even happen with self-assembled PCs but it will be a requirement for any new Mac Pro. You just watch and see.
AI Pro: I have no intention of ever looking inside this machine, but I want it to be bristling with SCSI ports and USB A to X. I want to be able to pick up an untested Gobsmak 800 1TB Graphics Card from Honest Don's Hardware Shack and stick it in the case because I read somewhere that's what real pros do.
Apple's real pro customer: I want this machine to do stuff I need it do, and then do more stuff when I need it to do more stuff. I'm too busy to care how you do it, just as long as you do it.
...said the guy with an iPhone, so he really understands pros. Name 1 company or individual that fits your profile of this ‘real pro customer’...
I'm a real pro, and I can tell you we in enterprise have zero desire to do DIY tinkering inside our machines. Whether its my fortune 100/500 clients or my consulting work, I get a loaded machine, use it, then eventually it gets replaced. That's it. There is no more. As real pros, these machines are tools to generate value and money, they are not hobby projects to play with.
Exactly which is where the Mac Pro fails. You simply can’t load it up in a way that many pro users need.
Beyond that your niche niche is just that a niche! Pro users often have to open the box so to speak to configure a machine for a specific use. Locally the IT department loves standard boxes but that doesn’t mean those standard boxes are open to be configured for a specific use. The idea that pro users don’t open the box is just asinine. Often you have no choice but to do so.
I can tell you that the Film/TV and Advertising Post Production world has moved on. We built our business on Apple but Apple is a day late and an overpriced dollar short. I cant run my business waiting for Apple to get around to maybe, someday upgrading a 7 year old piece of hardware. tech changes too fast. I didnt leave Apple, Apple left me
And you'll pay more for it in TCO. That's your business tho.
Referring to TCO is a bit misleading. In many cases a machine can pay for itself in weeks if it can be properly configured for the job at hand. The problem is you can’t properly configure many of Apples machines for the job at hand these days.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
April 2017 they said that they were working on it. January 2018 they said that they were working on Professional display/s. April 2018 they said that the Mac Pro was a 2019 product.
So in early 2017 they said they were working on the new Pro. I seem to remember them saying that it was to ship in 2018. Here it is in 2019 and not only has it not shipped, we haven't seen it and have no even speculative date to ship. Let's be wildly optimistic and say they will announce it is shipping immediately at WWDC, that's over two years. as @danvm pointed out Dell, HP, and Lenovo have been updating their top systems during this time. Why is it taking them at least two and more likely two and a half to three years to get this out? More to the point, what were they doing for the last six? They had to know the 2013 model wasn't going to be the be all end all for pro machines. But it sure looks like they dropped the ball and let it roll into the gutter. They dusted off their hands and lost the plot. Finally in January 2017 somebody realized they needed to update then Pro but nothing had been done. They threw together a very impressive iMac Pro as a stopgap but the full on Mac Pro is still nowhere to be seen. For a company with the resources and talent of Apple this is a major stubbed toe.
But hey I'm not in the market for a Pro machine. I just hate to see Apple do something that looks this clumsy.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
April 2017 they said that they were working on it. January 2018 they said that they were working on Professional display/s. April 2018 they said that the Mac Pro was a 2019 product.
So in early 2017 they said they were working on the new Pro. I seem to remember them saying that it was to ship in 2018. Here it is in 2019 and not only has it not shipped, we haven't seen it and have no even speculative date to ship. Let's be wildly optimistic and say they will announce it is shipping immediately at WWDC, that's over two years. as @danvm pointed out Dell, HP, and Lenovo have been updating their top systems during this time. Why is it taking them at least two and more likely two and a half to three years to get this out? More to the point, what were they doing for the last six? They had to know the 2013 model wasn't going to be the be all end all for pro machines. But it sure looks like they dropped the ball and let it roll into the gutter. They dusted off their hands and lost the plot. Finally in January 2017 somebody realized they needed to update then Pro but nothing had been done. They threw together a very impressive iMac Pro as a stopgap but the full on Mac Pro is still nowhere to be seen. For a company with the resources and talent of Apple this is a major stubbed toe.
But hey I'm not in the market for a Pro machine. I just hate to see Apple do something that looks this clumsy.
No, they specifically said it was NOT a 2018 product, and then later said it was coming in 2019. They also addressed several of your other questions with regard to how they got here and what they've been doing. Have you read these?
wizard69 said: The real reason Apple isn’t seen as a manufacture of ”pro” computers anymore is directly due to their inability to grasp what a pro user is and what his needs are.
Hence why they've been working directly with pros and analyzing workflows and needs as outlined in the TechCrunch articles. But don't let that stop you writing another ten pages admonishing them for screwing up the 2013 MP.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
April 2017 they said that they were working on it. January 2018 they said that they were working on Professional display/s. April 2018 they said that the Mac Pro was a 2019 product.
So in early 2017 they said they were working on the new Pro. I seem to remember them saying that it was to ship in 2018. Here it is in 2019 and not only has it not shipped, we haven't seen it and have no even speculative date to ship. Let's be wildly optimistic and say they will announce it is shipping immediately at WWDC, that's over two years. as @danvm pointed out Dell, HP, and Lenovo have been updating their top systems during this time. Why is it taking them at least two and more likely two and a half to three years to get this out? More to the point, what were they doing for the last six? They had to know the 2013 model wasn't going to be the be all end all for pro machines. But it sure looks like they dropped the ball and let it roll into the gutter. They dusted off their hands and lost the plot. Finally in January 2017 somebody realized they needed to update then Pro but nothing had been done. They threw together a very impressive iMac Pro as a stopgap but the full on Mac Pro is still nowhere to be seen. For a company with the resources and talent of Apple this is a major stubbed toe.
But hey I'm not in the market for a Pro machine. I just hate to see Apple do something that looks this clumsy.
So, let me get this straight, you are actually comparing the time and effort it takes for "garden variety" equipment that comes out from Dell, HP and Lenovo? - Equipment that has windows 10 on it which to my knowledge is not tuned to the hardware or has not been in the past at least. Clearly, the Mac Pro does not seem like a computer that Apple intends to update every year like a Dell, HP or Lenovo and thrown together like those brands are. Take a look at the engineering and thought that went into the "trash can" Mac Pro that has been on sale for years. Don't you expect or want that same level of effort going into a new model? I do... I know most of us are looking forward to a new model, they announced 2019 - so that may mean end of year for all we know, but they did say 2019 so let's be patient. I would rather they get it RIGHT instead of rushing it out to make the marketing folks happy or the Wall Street people happy.
Spotted at the October 2018 Mac Event that gave us the new Space Grey Mac mini...
There it is, a larger-than-life mock-up of the new modular Mac Pro...!
Even though this is not the mini-tower / tower that everyone wants, if Apple allows end users to easily add / change the CPU / RAM / GPU & add additional 2.5" SSDs for expanded storage, AND releases updates (looking at you, GPU module) on a regular schedule, it might work...
Look at the work done on the PSU in the new Space Grey Mac mini, now imagine that same horizontal footprint, but extended vertically, a larger PSU with more power...
I could see Apple using a vertical backplane (mounted at the front of the chassis) with five slots for vertical daughtercards; one for CPU / RAM / base GPU (Navi 12), one for storage (T2 & four M.2 NVMe slots, two prefilled & remaining modules initially available from Apple, until OWC steps in), one for base I/O (eight TB3 / USB-C ports, two 10Gb Ethernet ports, one 3.5mm headphone jack), two remaining slots are for GPUs /GPGPUs...
So basically you are going to have three slots filled from Apple, with you deciding the level of CPU / RAM / SSDs come pre-installed...
You can BTO up the CPU / RAM / storage & you can BTO add up to two Apple-sanctioned GPUs / GPGPUs...
I would imagine bottom intake / rear exhaust blower fans for the CPU & various GPUs...
It is Apple after all, why would they ever give us EXACTLY what we want...! ;^p
Would have been a whole lot easier to have kept a workstation design in production.
I do not want a bunch of modules any more than I want a collection of boxes connected by overpriced cables and accompanied by a collection of wall warts.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
April 2017 they said that they were working on it. January 2018 they said that they were working on Professional display/s. April 2018 they said that the Mac Pro was a 2019 product.
So in early 2017 they said they were working on the new Pro. I seem to remember them saying that it was to ship in 2018. Here it is in 2019 and not only has it not shipped, we haven't seen it and have no even speculative date to ship. Let's be wildly optimistic and say they will announce it is shipping immediately at WWDC, that's over two years. as @danvm pointed out Dell, HP, and Lenovo have been updating their top systems during this time. Why is it taking them at least two and more likely two and a half to three years to get this out? More to the point, what were they doing for the last six? They had to know the 2013 model wasn't going to be the be all end all for pro machines. But it sure looks like they dropped the ball and let it roll into the gutter. They dusted off their hands and lost the plot. Finally in January 2017 somebody realized they needed to update then Pro but nothing had been done. They threw together a very impressive iMac Pro as a stopgap but the full on Mac Pro is still nowhere to be seen. For a company with the resources and talent of Apple this is a major stubbed toe.
But hey I'm not in the market for a Pro machine. I just hate to see Apple do something that looks this clumsy.
So, let me get this straight, you are actually comparing the time and effort it takes for "garden variety" equipment that comes out from Dell, HP and Lenovo? - Equipment that has windows 10 on it which to my knowledge is not tuned to the hardware or has not been in the past at least. Clearly, the Mac Pro does not seem like a computer that Apple intends to update every year like a Dell, HP or Lenovo and thrown together like those brands are. Take a look at the engineering and thought that went into the "trash can" Mac Pro that has been on sale for years. Don't you expect or want that same level of effort going into a new model? I do... I know most of us are looking forward to a new model, they announced 2019 - so that may mean end of year for all we know, but they did say 2019 so let's be patient. I would rather they get it RIGHT instead of rushing it out to make the marketing folks happy or the Wall Street people happy.
Sure those other brands just “throw together” their computers without engineers while Apple has the finest geniuses and artisans designing their devices.
The Mac Pro is delayed till end of 2019 for a reason. What processors could Intel possibly produce that would be comparable to the A13 series silicon?
The A12 already beats every Intel Core processor except the overpriced i9, at a fraction the power/heat/size, and probably at a lower cost. Current A12 processors are limited by battery/size/cooling limitations of iPhone and iPad - whereas on a desktop such limitations are largely irrelevant. Double the core count on an A12 and you handily beat every Intel Core processor. Quadruple the core count and you blow past the Xeon line.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
April 2017 they said that they were working on it. January 2018 they said that they were working on Professional display/s. April 2018 they said that the Mac Pro was a 2019 product.
So in early 2017 they said they were working on the new Pro. I seem to remember them saying that it was to ship in 2018. Here it is in 2019 and not only has it not shipped, we haven't seen it and have no even speculative date to ship. Let's be wildly optimistic and say they will announce it is shipping immediately at WWDC, that's over two years. as @danvm pointed out Dell, HP, and Lenovo have been updating their top systems during this time. Why is it taking them at least two and more likely two and a half to three years to get this out? More to the point, what were they doing for the last six? They had to know the 2013 model wasn't going to be the be all end all for pro machines. But it sure looks like they dropped the ball and let it roll into the gutter. They dusted off their hands and lost the plot. Finally in January 2017 somebody realized they needed to update then Pro but nothing had been done. They threw together a very impressive iMac Pro as a stopgap but the full on Mac Pro is still nowhere to be seen. For a company with the resources and talent of Apple this is a major stubbed toe.
But hey I'm not in the market for a Pro machine. I just hate to see Apple do something that looks this clumsy.
So, let me get this straight, you are actually comparing the time and effort it takes for "garden variety" equipment that comes out from Dell, HP and Lenovo? - Equipment that has windows 10 on it which to my knowledge is not tuned to the hardware or has not been in the past at least. Clearly, the Mac Pro does not seem like a computer that Apple intends to update every year like a Dell, HP or Lenovo and thrown together like those brands are.
I think you are not aware that HP, Dell and Lenovo have excellent workstations, including models that are miles ahead of what Apple offers. Just as an example, the HP Z8 is capable of two processors / 56 cores, 3TB of RAM (yes, Terabytes) and 3 NVidia Quadro P6000. Don't you think that it takes time and effort to design a device capable of these specs? And for years these vendors have certified their hardware with Windows and many other applications.
Take a look at the engineering and thought that went into the "trash can" Mac Pro that has been on sale for years. Don't you expect or want that same level of effort going into a new model? I do... I know most of us are looking forward to a new model, they announced 2019 - so that may mean end of year for all we know, but they did say 2019 so let's be patient. I would rather they get it RIGHT instead of rushing it out to make the marketing folks happy or the Wall Street people happy.
Users that need a high end Mac have no other option than being patient, an issue Windows / Linux users don't have, considering the excellent job HP, Dell and Lenovo have done with their workstations.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
It's not late at all...it's basically right on schedule. There was never any set in stone date anyways and if you think Apple is just going to replicate the cheese grader Mac Pro, then you're absolutely wrong. Of course Apple is going to do something out of the box just like they've done with every other Professional Mac desktop going back into the 90's. It was never just a box of parts.
Also, if Apple was so far along in the design of their product with the anticipation of using a specific Intel chip with a specific load and heat index, you can't just go back on 1-2yrs worth of specific design and change it overnight. Sure, it's easy when you're HP or Dell and just throw a shitty plastic box together with off the shelf parts. To me this is just you being an armchair engineer here.
Yeah even the cheese grater Mac Pros had weird and proprietary things inside, even though they were fairly versatile when it cam to customizing and upgrading. The thing that comes to mind is the fans. Man oh man the fans. I think some of them had 5 or 6 fans. One of them even had a squirrel cage type blower fan, and like all the other fans was formed out of Apple gray plastic and totally custom made for that machine. And the fans were PWM speed controlled via some Apple specific method, so many of them had extra wires that run-of-the mill PC fans don't have. Also, many of the fans were extraordinarily difficult to access and replace if you had a failure. The quick change drive mounts were also very nice, but again, were made the Apple way and not adhering to any standard.
I gotta figure any new machine will be the same, but I really do hope it does not have this stacking feature everyone is talking about. Vertical stacking with specialized connectors seems unlikely and unwise to me - unless of course someone got a sneak peek and that is what they saw. But we know that hasn't happened, right?
I personally predict that whatever the new Mac Pro turns out to be it will be trashed viciously by the self-agrandized techie crowd. These types want to be able to saunter into a Fry’s or Micro Center, pick out some weird peripheral, stick it into their “Mac Pro” and have it work. That doesn’t even happen with self-assembled PCs but it will be a requirement for any new Mac Pro. You just watch and see.
"Some weird peripheral" like an industry standard NVMe m.2 SSD or an off-the-shelf GPU or, memory modules? Who in their right mind would WANT to saunter into a local parts store and upgrade their storage or graphics without having to take out a 2nd mortgage? That's just crazy thinking! /s
But, no doubt, Apple will rely on "proprietary connectors" and glued shut modules to ensure that whatever you want to do with your new "modular Mac", you'll have to get it at the Apple Store at 3-4X the cost of a standard part.
Yup. But these proprietary connections will be great and riddled with T2 security chips to make sure your safe... lol Think RAM will come in glued shut module banks? “Need more RAM?... trade in your 32gig module for 5% of its value and get the 64gig for only $2699... but it’s special Apple Approved ram and we chipped it for your security from the RAM goblins. We talked with Pro’s and this was their biggest request... “
If you look at how long pros were able to keep their 201X cheese grater Mac Pros updated and working well (many to this day) you know Apple wants to ensure they don't make the "mistake" of making a machine with that kind of useful lifespan.
I rewatched the launch of the PowerMac G5 yesterday. Apple really understood the pro market back then.
Their recipe was simple and elegant: build an easy to open enclosure with everything swappable within reach. Carefully positioned and independently controlled fans to keep it cool yet quiet. I/O on the front and back. Handles to grab it and move it around with ease. An overall design that allowed for years of upgrades and config changes.
That design was hands down the best thing they’ve ever come up with for the pro market.
I really hope they’re not over-designing this new product. If it’s taking this long to finish though, it suggests this won’t be a return to the simple and elegant approach of the PowerMac.
The Mac Pro is delayed till end of 2019 for a reason. What processors could Intel possibly produce that would be comparable to the A13 series silicon?
The A12 already beats every Intel Core processor except the overpriced i9, at a fraction the power/heat/size, and probably at a lower cost. Current A12 processors are limited by battery/size/cooling limitations of iPhone and iPad - whereas on a desktop such limitations are largely irrelevant. Double the core count on an A12 and you handily beat every Intel Core processor. Quadruple the core count and you blow past the Xeon line.
Mac Pros use Xeons. Current Xeons use what, 28 cores or some shit? Why you talking about A12, Willis?
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
Also, if Apple was so far along in the design of their product with the anticipation of using a specific Intel chip with a specific load and heat index, you can't just go back on 1-2yrs worth of specific design and change it overnight. Sure, it's easy when you're HP or Dell and just throw a shitty plastic box together with off the shelf parts. To me this is just you being an armchair engineer here.
The problem is that the armchair engineers made a better product than Apple engineers.
There is absolutely no evidence that it will be a stackable series of sealed units. Please stop indulging the render nerds who don't understand thermal requirements of pro hardware.
I can't believe how long it takes one of the most valuable companies in the world with near endless resources so long to make a computer when they've been in the computer making business for over 40 years. It's so embarrassing. Pointless iterations of iPhone after iPhone because they sell well. The computers might sell a bit better if they updated them once in a while
That’s the thing that gets me. This has taken WAY too long. Okay I’ll give them that Intel has screwed them over with processor delays, but still. They've been stringing people on for a few years. And that’s after sitting on the 2013 model without seemingly made any plans at all to upgrade beyond that model. What was that quote from Jobs, Real Artists,Ship.
Intel delays haven't stop Dell, HP and Lenovo from updating their workstations. This one is completely on Apple.
Agreed. Even if Apple had their eye on some theoretical Unobtanium Lake chip that Intel promised but couldn't deliver, Apple could have adjusted, used what WAS available, and gotten the thing out. What is this, two years, three, since they said it was coming? It's close to a year late. It is absurd.
Also, if Apple was so far along in the design of their product with the anticipation of using a specific Intel chip with a specific load and heat index, you can't just go back on 1-2yrs worth of specific design and change it overnight. Sure, it's easy when you're HP or Dell and just throw a shitty plastic box together with off the shelf parts. To me this is just you being an armchair engineer here.
The problem is that the armchair engineers made a better product than Apple engineers.
Sure it all seems easy sitting in front of your computer, but when you have real data from real customers about what they want, not AppleInsider bitch and complainers data its not all that easy in the end. Most of the people here don't know the "pro" market as well as they think they do. They think they know how to run a Fortune 500 company better than the company running it. It's always easier to write a bunch of shit down in a piece of paper and say why can't Apple just build this isn't it? Not so easy to execute it. Like I said earlier, Apple isn't going to be like Dell and HP and throw a bunch of off the shelf parts together into a shitty looking plastic box...this just isn't going to happen and if it did, other people would be bitching about how Apple can't design shit anymore and how they've lost their touch, etc, etc...
Apple will need to show something or at least give an update at WWDC. I would say it is a must, therefore they will.
The reason why Apple is taking so long is so decide upon and design the most profitable business model around a proprietary modular (maybe) system and then to engineer, design and manufacture the proprietary hardware.
After release, would Apple neglect this for another five years? They need to prove commitment especially at the prices they will be commanding. Sadly, Apple clearly has reduced the importance, emphasis and resources allocated to macOS these days. Increasing its decreasing share of <10% market share won't happen this way. I hope they can reverse this way of thinking.
I assume they worked out they needed some features in macOS to get then new take to work. Next step on the eGPU support or some such and as such it was giong to be released with the next version or shortly after. Same with the new display which is always talked about as part of the new pro release.
Preview even pre-orders at WWDC shipping shortly would be my guess. Still question does remain are they making it to keep it current and adaptable to various workflows.
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Seriously how hard would it have been for Apple to pull one of the GPU cards and replace it with an M.2 carrier card. The reality is the vast majority of potential users of a “Mac Pro” do not need dual GPU cards and never had needed such. What they do need is one GPU that isn’t crap.
The real reason Apple isn’t seen as a manufacture of ”pro” computers anymore is directly due to their inability to grasp what a pro user is and what his needs are. You could see this in the crowd when the Mac Pro was released at WWDC, the product wasn’t even shipping and it was getting a cold shoulder. Apple failed in so many ways that it is hard to believe they have people managing the Mac product line with high school degrees - complete flunkies if you ask me. They couldn’t even be bothered to offer a complete system with monitor and storage array. That frankly isn’t appealing at all in the pro world.
which brings up another point if Apple really thinks that a 6K monitor will entice enough people to impact shipments they are effectively nuts. Sure a 6K monitor is needed, don’t get me wrong there but the larger segment of the market really wants a good economical 4K display supported by Apple. Pros in all their various forms need for Apple to provide the right solutions for their needs. That means a platform not a component that has to be pieced together from other manufactures parts.
Frankly i I really don’t think Apple gets it. They have done their best to market high priced machines that simply do not meet user needs. This has basically collapsed sales of their pro line. It would be like Ford trying to sell an $80,000 dump truck with a chassis that only handles 500 pounds of weight, all flash and no go!
Beyond that your niche niche is just that a niche! Pro users often have to open the box so to speak to configure a machine for a specific use. Locally the IT department loves standard boxes but that doesn’t mean those standard boxes are open to be configured for a specific use. The idea that pro users don’t open the box is just asinine. Often you have no choice but to do so.
But hey I'm not in the market for a Pro machine. I just hate to see Apple do something that looks this clumsy.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/transcript-phil-schiller-craig-federighi-and-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/
Hence why they've been working directly with pros and analyzing workflows and needs as outlined in the TechCrunch articles. But don't let that stop you writing another ten pages admonishing them for screwing up the 2013 MP.
There it is, a larger-than-life mock-up of the new modular Mac Pro...!
Even though this is not the mini-tower / tower that everyone wants, if Apple allows end users to easily add / change the CPU / RAM / GPU & add additional 2.5" SSDs for expanded storage, AND releases updates (looking at you, GPU module) on a regular schedule, it might work...
Look at the work done on the PSU in the new Space Grey Mac mini, now imagine that same horizontal footprint, but extended vertically, a larger PSU with more power...
I could see Apple using a vertical backplane (mounted at the front of the chassis) with five slots for vertical daughtercards; one for CPU / RAM / base GPU (Navi 12), one for storage (T2 & four M.2 NVMe slots, two prefilled & remaining modules initially available from Apple, until OWC steps in), one for base I/O (eight TB3 / USB-C ports, two 10Gb Ethernet ports, one 3.5mm headphone jack), two remaining slots are for GPUs /GPGPUs...
So basically you are going to have three slots filled from Apple, with you deciding the level of CPU / RAM / SSDs come pre-installed...
You can BTO up the CPU / RAM / storage & you can BTO add up to two Apple-sanctioned GPUs / GPGPUs...
I would imagine bottom intake / rear exhaust blower fans for the CPU & various GPUs...
It is Apple after all, why would they ever give us EXACTLY what we want...! ;^p
I do not want a bunch of modules any more than I want a collection of boxes connected by overpriced cables and accompanied by a collection of wall warts.
The A12 already beats every Intel Core processor except the overpriced i9, at a fraction the power/heat/size, and probably at a lower cost. Current A12 processors are limited by battery/size/cooling limitations of iPhone and iPad - whereas on a desktop such limitations are largely irrelevant. Double the core count on an A12 and you handily beat every Intel Core processor. Quadruple the core count and you blow past the Xeon line.
I wouldn't think of the trash can Mac Pro as an example of Apple engineering. Even Apple think of it as a failure,
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-failure-admission
Users that need a high end Mac have no other option than being patient, an issue Windows / Linux users don't have, considering the excellent job HP, Dell and Lenovo have done with their workstations.
Their recipe was simple and elegant: build an easy to open enclosure with everything swappable within reach. Carefully positioned and independently controlled fans to keep it cool yet quiet. I/O on the front and back. Handles to grab it and move it around with ease. An overall design that allowed for years of upgrades and config changes.
That design was hands down the best thing they’ve ever come up with for the pro market.
I really hope they’re not over-designing this new product. If it’s taking this long to finish though, it suggests this won’t be a return to the simple and elegant approach of the PowerMac.
Preview even pre-orders at WWDC shipping shortly would be my guess.
Still question does remain are they making it to keep it current and adaptable to various workflows.