Oh look! Another "Apple good, everyone else bad" editorial. Ridiculous. No objectivity whatsoever.
Looking at your 21 post you've done previously may be you should visit androidinsider instead of this forum?
Just because I don't post on every story doesn't mean I don't read this site regularly. I own and use Android and IOS and like them both for different reasons. Unlike some, I find value and usefulness with products from other companies...not just Apple.
Just going off the headline I knew this was a DED article. Here’s a phone that might be somewhat successful because of value for price (and it will be available on more carriers) so gotta trash it out of the gate. I guess Apple’s products can’t stand on their own? Sad.
God forbid anyone take an opposing opinion.
I myself take opposition to Android because I feel that the values behind its creation are detrimental to the tech industry. The more I work with it, the more I see it. For example, I was working with fonts on Android the other day and found that they've created a whole set of fonts which are compatible with industry standard fonts, but help them avoid paying licensing fees to the original font designers (e.g. Arimo being a cloned version of Arial). Same thing they did with Java. Everyone calls out the Chinese for stealing IP and making cheap knockoffs, but Android is just as bad. I might understand it if there was a small tech startup behind it, but for a big tech company like Google to be perpetuating these values?
But whatever, as long as we have value for price, who cares how many people got ripped off along the way. Sad.
Here’s the thing about fonts: They can’t be copyrighted... at least not in the US, so paying a licensing fee for an identical font you create yourself is the way to go for many companies.
Yes, just like APIs can't be copyrighted (in the case of the Oracle vs Google lawsuit over Java). But tech companies still have a choice as to whether they clone a technology (be it a software development package, a font, etc) or pay the licensing fee for it. Google typically chooses to clone, which undermines the value of creating new technologies. Why create something new when everyone else will just clone it and get away without any repercussions?
The original purpose of the Nexus/Pixel line was to create a reference phone for upcoming Android releases. That still appears to hold true and I doubt that Google are going to stop manufacturing the Pixel line any time soon.
Do Google particularly care if their own line of smartphones doesn’t sell in the hundreds of millions? I doubt it. There’s a tightrope to be walked in regards to keeping other hardware manufacturers on-side.
The original purpose of the Nexus/Pixel line was to create a reference phone for upcoming Android releases. That still appears to hold true and I doubt that Google are going to stop manufacturing the Pixel line any time soon.
Do Google particularly care if their own line of smartphones doesn’t sell in the hundreds of millions? I doubt it. There’s a tightrope to be walked in regards to keeping other hardware manufacturers on-side.
Of course. But DED wouldn’t be able to write an “editorial” about that.
Oh look! Another "Apple good, everyone else bad" editorial. Ridiculous. No objectivity whatsoever.
Looking at your 21 post you've done previously may be you should visit androidinsider instead of this forum?
Just because I don't post on every story doesn't mean I don't read this site regularly. I own and use Android and IOS and like them both for different reasons. Unlike some, I find value and usefulness with products from other companies...not just Apple.
How about you detail an explanation why you use both for different reasons, because I'm not seeing the benefits that you do.
CFO Porat's latest comments on YOY sales decline do not necessarily infer unit decline, as DED says. Promotions, that she mentioned, could conceivably reduce sales $$$ but nearly double unit sales. Google has deep enough pockets to do this in HW, especially since more units out there mean less TAC and more service dollars for them. As an Apple enthusiast, I still view Google as a serious rival, especially now that not just Verizon but also T-Mobile and Sprint will be peddling Pixels.
“lower year-on-year sales of Pixel“ would be a curious way to describe increased sales of Pixel units at lower prices due to discounting. But even if Google discounted its Pixels so badly that it were making less money on higher sales, it would be terrible.
given it’s wording, it’s likely that pixel units and revenues were both in the toilet.
CFO Porat's latest comments on YOY sales decline do not necessarily infer unit decline, as DED says. Promotions, that she mentioned, could conceivably reduce sales $$$ but nearly double unit sales. Google has deep enough pockets to do this in HW, especially since more units out there mean less TAC and more service dollars for them. As an Apple enthusiast, I still view Google as a serious rival, especially now that not just Verizon but also T-Mobile and Sprint will be peddling Pixels.
“lower year-on-year sales of Pixel“ would be a curious way to describe increased sales of Pixel units at lower prices due to discounting. But even if Google discounted its Pixels so badly that it were making less money on higher sales, it would be terrible.
given it’s wording, it’s likely that pixel units and revenues were both in the toilet. didn't meet investors expectations.
The statements by Porat need to put in context with the venue IMO. For instance when Apple addressed disappointing iPhone sales it did not mean sales were relatively speaking "in the toilet" even if investors might be displeased with a double-digit decrease. They both needed to address the decreases with their concerned investors, but internally might have been OK with it considering the overall market circumstances.
And your ilk only accepts a report as objective if it trashes Apple.
Sounds like you don't know the meaning of "objective" or how it can be used constructively in an editorial. Search the web. There are plenty of examples.
How about you detail an explanation why you use both for different reasons, because I'm not seeing the benefits that you do.
I have a OnePlus Android phone simply because I prefer Android on a phone. No other reason. I have an Android tablet that I travel with because the file system allows downloads via USB C (movies, music, documents and pictures from my camera). I can easily connect to my NAS drives at home and transfer whatever files I need. I also like the expandable SD storage, so I have plenty of room. I also have an iPad Pro 11 that I like to use for certain games and apps that aren't available on Android. I also use it for drawing/illustrating with the Apple pencil...Something my Android tablet is not good for. Can I do most of what I need with one or the other? Sure. But I like both systems and can afford to have both.
The original purpose of the Nexus/Pixel line was to create a reference phone for upcoming Android releases. That still appears to hold true and I doubt that Google are going to stop manufacturing the Pixel line any time soon.
Do Google particularly care if their own line of smartphones doesn’t sell in the hundreds of millions? I doubt it. There’s a tightrope to be walked in regards to keeping other hardware manufacturers on-side.
Was that also the point of nexus tablets? If so, what did google give up on Pixel Android tablets?
given it’s wording, it’s likely that pixel units and revenues were both in the toilet. didn't meet investors expectations.
The statements by Porat need to put in context with the venue IMO. For instance when Apple addressed disappointing iPhone sales it did not mean sales were relatively speaking "in the toilet" even if investors might be displeased with a double-digit decrease. They both needed to address the decreases with their concerned investors, but internally might have been OK with it considering the overall market circumstances.
Pixel isn’t selling 100k units in a month.
Pixel is an extremely expensive project. Thousands of employees, +$1b acquihire, very expensive custom silicon efforts. Not selling 5M units is a huge problem.
Apple would also like to sell another 10M iPhones above the +40M units it sold in Q1, but Apple is making tons of money and yet still paid for the A12 and all of the labor and R&D it’s invested, with tons of free cash flow funding the next years projects.
Google is losing tons of money in hardware and is achieving nothing. There isn’t an installed base of Pixels worth anything. It has no way to corral the herd of cats making androids to sell them any real services. It has to pay Apple billions to have access to affluent customers.
Equating 3 years of Pixel failure + 7 years of Nexus failure with Apple's 12 years of blockbuster iPhone profits that have temporarily dipped by 15% for a couple quarters of a trade war is absolutely stupid beyond words.
Apple earned a trillion dollars while google dicked about squandering the opportunity of this generation, one that might never repeat.
Spin on things all you like, but pixel is a horeshit boondoggle of epic proportions. For google to pretend it’s okay with that is just insulting to anyone who sits upright and has opposable thumbs.
Oh look! Another "Apple good, everyone else bad" editorial. Ridiculous. No objectivity whatsoever.
Oh look! The only "Apple good, everyone else bad" editorial for every "Apple doom, everyone else get easy pass" news out there. Honestly, DED article is a fresh air in an otherwise a world full of "Apple is Bad".
DED: Maybe this has already been noted, but I think there's a factor-of-10 error in your monthly sales rate calculations. Based on the numbers provided, Pixel sales in 2016 were 650,000 units per month, not 65,000 (1.9MM divided by 3), unless I'm missing something. And the 2017 monthly sales rate was 287,500, not 28,750 (3,450,000/12).
This in no way interferes with your argument, of course. Thanks as always.
I think the choice in buying a smart phone is very clear.
You want a phone that runs iOS and access to the full Apple ecosystem - there is one choice, an iPhone.
You want a phone that runs Android and access to the Android ecosystem - there are MANYMANY choices.
Apple have iOS and access to the full Apple ecosystem all to themselves.
The Android phone makers have to compete against MANY competitors providing a LARGE range of price points. With that level of choice the $$$ will be a major driver when someone decides to go for an Android phone.
given it’s wording, it’s likely that pixel units and revenues were both in the toilet. didn't meet investors expectations.
The statements by Porat need to put in context with the venue IMO. For instance when Apple addressed disappointing iPhone sales it did not mean sales were relatively speaking "in the toilet" even if investors might be displeased with a double-digit decrease. They both needed to address the decreases with their concerned investors, but internally might have been OK with it considering the overall market circumstances.
Pixel isn’t selling 100k units in a month.
Pixel is an extremely expensive project. Thousands of employees, +$1b acquihire, very expensive custom silicon efforts. Not selling 5M units is a huge problem.
Apple would also like to sell another 10M iPhones above the +40M units it sold in Q1, but Apple is making tons of money and yet still paid for the A12 and all of the labor and R&D it’s invested, with tons of free cash flow funding the next years projects.
Google is losing tons of money in hardware and is achieving nothing. There isn’t an installed base of Pixels worth anything. It has no way to corral the herd of cats making androids to sell them any real services. It has to pay Apple billions to have access to affluent customers.
Equating 3 years of Pixel failure + 7 years of Nexus failure with Apple's 12 years of blockbuster iPhone profits that have temporarily dipped by 15% for a couple quarters of a trade war is absolutely stupid beyond words.
Apple earned a trillion dollars while google dicked about squandering the opportunity of this generation, one that might never repeat.
Spin on things all you like, but pixel is a horeshit boondoggle of epic proportions. For google to pretend it’s okay with that is just insulting to anyone who sits upright and has opposable thumbs.
“Google is losing tons of money in hardware and is achieving nothing.”
Haven’t you heard, DED? Google has money to burn. /s
I suspect that the driver behind all these attempts by various companies to match Apple on the hardware front is a desire to achieve the atypical margins Apple is continuously making on that hardware.
We are in complete agreement on that point. I don't think they do either. Probably why they've begun assembling a unified and experienced product design team for their hardware line. Up to now their teams have not been operating in sync and all over the place with design. There's always that chance they've figured out it's not ever going to work the way they've been attacking it. Engineering is fine, software is fine. Neither of those can reach their full product potential without an attractive outfit to put it in and a little beauty makeup on the face IMO.
Except for those times they've somewhat mimicked Apple (the Pixelbook and OG Pixel) their hardware has not looked visually impressive, with the possible exception of the original Google Home speaker which I think was one of their better efforts.
Pixel phone design is terrible, but the larger problem is that Google apparently thinks it can sell an expensive Android and compete against iPhones.
Even Samsung can’t do that. Moreover, Samsung is getting gutted by cheap Chinese phones. So how is Google going to do well selling Android commodity at iPhone pricing when cheaper Androids are doing a better job than Google while copying every camera feature Google invents?
Apple is supposed to be worried about Huawei, but Google isn’t? Hilarious!
So wait, is Google worrying about Huawei or is Google worrying about Apple the driving force behind Pixel phones? Is it possible that Google intent isn't to outsell the iPhone to begin with, rather to expand their business base beyond ad placement services? That's something I think you yourself would suggest as a wise move for them, right?
Both Google and Apple are diversifying their businesses.
Except Apple is and has been successfully diversifying its business by growing services revenue, but Google has been a repeated failure with its poor hardware sales. They don’t understand good hardware (or software IMO) and keep putting out failures. You’re trying to pretend they haven’t been failing over and over.
You have a very odd definition of failing.
Don't you wish you could fail with over a $100B in the bank, a top three ranking in the tech world, and an international brand image that is either #1 or 2? I think what you actually mean is "Google isn't as rich as Apple". Well you got me there. They aren't. Nor are they failing.
You have a very narrow definition of failing.
You may wish to use success in one area to deny failure in another but it doesn't work like that. We can't deny that Apple has failed in social media with services like Ping just because they make billions of dollars from hardware & services.
Google is a very successful company, however it's foolish to deny that Pixel and Nexus have not been successful. If it were a stand alone business it would not have survived. While you can try and argue that the purpose of Pixel/Nexus is as a hardware reference and not intended for sales that is beyond ridiculous. Even if Google is happy to wast billions of dollars just to show other Android vendors how to design their phones (shareholders should really be up in arms about that) it's not succeeding at this either. Samsung, Huwai etc... have not changed the design of their phones to bring them in line with the Pixel.
No company is ever going to succeed at everything they do, especially as they grow and branch out into other sectors. I really don't see the logic of die hard fans wanting to deny when something is a flop. It shouldn't matter if that's Pixel/Nexus, Ping, Android tablets, Apple Music Connect or any other product/service. Why waste energy defending something that your supposedly "perfect" company eventually pulls the plug on.
Sure, Google hasn't pulled the plug on creating their own phones just yet, but to deny that they have not been successful in it so far is just weird.
We are in complete agreement on that point. I don't think they do either. Probably why they've begun assembling a unified and experienced product design team for their hardware line. Up to now their teams have not been operating in sync and all over the place with design. There's always that chance they've figured out it's not ever going to work the way they've been attacking it. Engineering is fine, software is fine. Neither of those can reach their full product potential without an attractive outfit to put it in and a little beauty makeup on the face IMO.
Except for those times they've somewhat mimicked Apple (the Pixelbook and OG Pixel) their hardware has not looked visually impressive, with the possible exception of the original Google Home speaker which I think was one of their better efforts.
Pixel phone design is terrible, but the larger problem is that Google apparently thinks it can sell an expensive Android and compete against iPhones.
Even Samsung can’t do that. Moreover, Samsung is getting gutted by cheap Chinese phones. So how is Google going to do well selling Android commodity at iPhone pricing when cheaper Androids are doing a better job than Google while copying every camera feature Google invents?
Apple is supposed to be worried about Huawei, but Google isn’t? Hilarious!
So wait, is Google worrying about Huawei or is Google worrying about Apple the driving force behind Pixel phones? Is it possible that Google intent isn't to outsell the iPhone to begin with, rather to expand their business base beyond ad placement services? That's something I think you yourself would suggest as a wise move for them, right?
Both Google and Apple are diversifying their businesses.
Except Apple is and has been successfully diversifying its business by growing services revenue, but Google has been a repeated failure with its poor hardware sales. They don’t understand good hardware (or software IMO) and keep putting out failures. You’re trying to pretend they haven’t been failing over and over.
You have a very odd definition of failing.
Don't you wish you could fail with over a $100B in the bank, a top three ranking in the tech world, and an international brand image that is either #1 or 2? I think what you actually mean is "Google isn't as rich as Apple". Well you got me there. They aren't. Nor are they failing.
You have a very narrow definition of failing.... While you can try and argue that the purpose of Pixel/Nexus is as a hardware reference and not intended for sales that is beyond ridiculous. Even if Google is happy to wast billions of dollars just to show other Android vendors how to design their phones (shareholders should really be up in arms about that) it's not succeeding at this either. Samsung, Huwai etc... have not changed the design of their phones to bring them in line with the Pixel.
I've never once suggested the Pixel line was intended as reference phones. They aren't, unlike the Nexus models that preceded them that were originally intended as just that.
Since they only committed to building a profitable respected smartphone brand three years ago it's more than a little early to call the effort a failure. LOL. In fact the 3a's are the first Pixel phones to come out of the purchase of the engineering teams from HTC who are now under Google's umbrella.
I'm sure you crawled before you were ever able to run but you eventually learned to (I assume), so crawling was no indication you were going to be a failure. In that same vein three years of brand-building is too soon to call the effort a failure too.
Give it another three and revisit this conversation. Sure, it could be a wasteful effort, it could end up as a very successful lineup of hardware, or it could be somewhere in between the two. DED is spinning the former as is his wont with Google, but TBH is guessing at this point just as everyone else is.
We are in complete agreement on that point. I don't think they do either. Probably why they've begun assembling a unified and experienced product design team for their hardware line. Up to now their teams have not been operating in sync and all over the place with design. There's always that chance they've figured out it's not ever going to work the way they've been attacking it. Engineering is fine, software is fine. Neither of those can reach their full product potential without an attractive outfit to put it in and a little beauty makeup on the face IMO.
Except for those times they've somewhat mimicked Apple (the Pixelbook and OG Pixel) their hardware has not looked visually impressive, with the possible exception of the original Google Home speaker which I think was one of their better efforts.
Pixel phone design is terrible, but the larger problem is that Google apparently thinks it can sell an expensive Android and compete against iPhones.
Even Samsung can’t do that. Moreover, Samsung is getting gutted by cheap Chinese phones. So how is Google going to do well selling Android commodity at iPhone pricing when cheaper Androids are doing a better job than Google while copying every camera feature Google invents?
Apple is supposed to be worried about Huawei, but Google isn’t? Hilarious!
So wait, is Google worrying about Huawei or is Google worrying about Apple the driving force behind Pixel phones? Is it possible that Google intent isn't to outsell the iPhone to begin with, rather to expand their business base beyond ad placement services? That's something I think you yourself would suggest as a wise move for them, right?
Both Google and Apple are diversifying their businesses.
Except Apple is and has been successfully diversifying its business by growing services revenue, but Google has been a repeated failure with its poor hardware sales. They don’t understand good hardware (or software IMO) and keep putting out failures. You’re trying to pretend they haven’t been failing over and over.
You have a very odd definition of failing.
Don't you wish you could fail with over a $100B in the bank, a top three ranking in the tech world, and an international brand image that is either #1 or 2? I think what you actually mean is "Google isn't as rich as Apple". Well you got me there. They aren't. Nor are they failing.
You have a very narrow definition of failing.... While you can try and argue that the purpose of Pixel/Nexus is as a hardware reference and not intended for sales that is beyond ridiculous. Even if Google is happy to wast billions of dollars just to show other Android vendors how to design their phones (shareholders should really be up in arms about that) it's not succeeding at this either. Samsung, Huwai etc... have not changed the design of their phones to bring them in line with the Pixel.
I've never once suggested the Pixel line was intended as reference phones. They aren't, unlike the Nexus models that preceded them that were originally intended as just that.
Since they only committed to building a profitable respected smartphone brand three years ago it's more than a little early to call the effort a failure. LOL. In fact the 3a's are the first Pixel phones to come out of the purchase of the engineering teams from HTC who are now under Google's umbrella.
I'm sure you crawled before you were ever able to run but you eventually learned to (I assume), so crawling was no indication you were going to be a failure. In that same vein three years of brand-building is too soon to call the effort a failure too.
Give it another three and revisit this conversation. Sure, it could be a wasteful effort, it could end up as a very successful lineup of hardware, or it could be somewhere in between the two. DED is spinning the former as is his wont with Google, but TBH is guessing at this point just as everyone else is.
Well Google hasn't pulled the plug on it yet so I agree that it's too early to say it's a complete failure. But that doesn't mean it's not failing so far. 3 years is a long time in tech and the Pixel certainly isn't pickling up momentum with consumers. If it has another three years like the last 3 it would be hard to spin that as a success. Although if Google still hasn't pulled the plug I'm sure some would still try and defend this Pixel...
I don't understand the stubbornness of denying what Google has been doing so far isn't working? Yes they have billions of dollars to keep trying and I wouldn't expect them to give up, but so far they have been anything but successful.
In order for Google to build a "profitable respected smartphone brand" within the next 3 years their sales would need to ramp up dramatically. They have invested a large fortune in bringing the Pixel to market and even if you discount the time spent on the Nexus (which is a bit disingenuous as they would have learnt a lot from that even if they state it was only for the purposes of a reference design) then they have a lot of ground and losses to catch up on.
None of us can predict the future but to deny they haven't been performing well just because they still have billions of dollars to continue trying is denying the obvious.
Comments
Do Google particularly care if their own line of smartphones doesn’t sell in the hundreds of millions? I doubt it. There’s a tightrope to be walked in regards to keeping other hardware manufacturers on-side.
given it’s wording, it’s likely that pixel units and revenues were both in the toilet.
The statements by Porat need to put in context with the venue IMO. For instance when Apple addressed disappointing iPhone sales it did not mean sales were relatively speaking "in the toilet" even if investors might be displeased with a double-digit decrease. They both needed to address the decreases with their concerned investors, but internally might have been OK with it considering the overall market circumstances.
Pixel is an extremely expensive project. Thousands of employees, +$1b acquihire, very expensive custom silicon efforts. Not selling 5M units is a huge problem.
Apple would also like to sell another 10M iPhones above the +40M units it sold in Q1, but Apple is making tons of money and yet still paid for the A12 and all of the labor and R&D it’s invested, with tons of free cash flow funding the next years projects.
Google is losing tons of money in hardware and is achieving nothing. There isn’t an installed base of Pixels worth anything. It has no way to corral the herd of cats making androids to sell them any real services. It has to pay Apple billions to have access to affluent customers.
Equating 3 years of Pixel failure + 7 years of Nexus failure with Apple's 12 years of blockbuster iPhone profits that have temporarily dipped by 15% for a couple quarters of a trade war is absolutely stupid beyond words.
Apple earned a trillion dollars while google dicked about squandering the opportunity of this generation, one that might never repeat.
Spin on things all you like, but pixel is a horeshit boondoggle of epic proportions. For google to pretend it’s okay with that is just insulting to anyone who sits upright and has opposable thumbs.
This in no way interferes with your argument, of course. Thanks as always.
You want a phone that runs iOS and access to the full Apple ecosystem - there is one choice, an iPhone.
You want a phone that runs Android and access to the Android ecosystem - there are MANY MANY choices.
Apple have iOS and access to the full Apple ecosystem all to themselves.
The Android phone makers have to compete against MANY competitors providing a LARGE range of price points.
With that level of choice the $$$ will be a major driver when someone decides to go for an Android phone.
Haven’t you heard, DED? Google has money to burn. /s
I suspect that the driver behind all these attempts by various companies to match Apple on the hardware front is a desire to achieve the atypical margins Apple is continuously making on that hardware.
Good luck with that....
You may wish to use success in one area to deny failure in another but it doesn't work like that. We can't deny that Apple has failed in social media with services like Ping just because they make billions of dollars from hardware & services.
Google is a very successful company, however it's foolish to deny that Pixel and Nexus have not been successful. If it were a stand alone business it would not have survived. While you can try and argue that the purpose of Pixel/Nexus is as a hardware reference and not intended for sales that is beyond ridiculous. Even if Google is happy to wast billions of dollars just to show other Android vendors how to design their phones (shareholders should really be up in arms about that) it's not succeeding at this either. Samsung, Huwai etc... have not changed the design of their phones to bring them in line with the Pixel.
No company is ever going to succeed at everything they do, especially as they grow and branch out into other sectors. I really don't see the logic of die hard fans wanting to deny when something is a flop. It shouldn't matter if that's Pixel/Nexus, Ping, Android tablets, Apple Music Connect or any other product/service. Why waste energy defending something that your supposedly "perfect" company eventually pulls the plug on.
Sure, Google hasn't pulled the plug on creating their own phones just yet, but to deny that they have not been successful in it so far is just weird.
Since they only committed to building a profitable respected smartphone brand three years ago it's more than a little early to call the effort a failure. LOL. In fact the 3a's are the first Pixel phones to come out of the purchase of the engineering teams from HTC who are now under Google's umbrella.
I'm sure you crawled before you were ever able to run but you eventually learned to (I assume), so crawling was no indication you were going to be a failure. In that same vein three years of brand-building is too soon to call the effort a failure too.
Give it another three and revisit this conversation. Sure, it could be a wasteful effort, it could end up as a very successful lineup of hardware, or it could be somewhere in between the two. DED is spinning the former as is his wont with Google, but TBH is guessing at this point just as everyone else is.
I don't understand the stubbornness of denying what Google has been doing so far isn't working? Yes they have billions of dollars to keep trying and I wouldn't expect them to give up, but so far they have been anything but successful.
In order for Google to build a "profitable respected smartphone brand" within the next 3 years their sales would need to ramp up dramatically. They have invested a large fortune in bringing the Pixel to market and even if you discount the time spent on the Nexus (which is a bit disingenuous as they would have learnt a lot from that even if they state it was only for the purposes of a reference design) then they have a lot of ground and losses to catch up on.
None of us can predict the future but to deny they haven't been performing well just because they still have billions of dollars to continue trying is denying the obvious.