Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Nope.
Both the Kirin 970 and the Kirin 980 were formally presented at IFA 2017 and IFA 2018 respectively.
These are not 'announcements' but official launches of the new SoCs. The reason the launches are not tied to a product presentation is that Kirins end up in much more than typical mobile devices.
IFA is usually held in August. Logically, the SoC becomes official at launch and if there are firsts involved, they get mentioned.
This clearly irritates you for some reason as you continually jump on these stories. It shouldn't irritate you. It's how things work and there is no mystery involved.
WTF.
Apple actually delivered iPhones with A12's in volume 30 days before Huawei delivered the P20 series, so "launch" dates mean diddly. I argued with you at the time that Huawei was in fact following Apple's TMSC production, which is, as again in this case, absolutely true. Why else would Huawei have held back delivering the P20's? If they did, It would demonstrate how poor their logistics were.
WTF as much as you like. It won't change anything.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
That's what happens with HiSilicon/Huawei. The difference is that in this case the first shipping end product is reserved exclusively for Huawei and Huawei products run to a schedule that depends on many other factors - not only SoC availability.
That's why, to give you a clear example, sites such as Anandtech make clear in their references to the A12 for example that it was the first commercial 7nm SoC.
What grates on you is that Huawei dares use the word 'first'. I'm sorry for you.
It's not even that important given the difference in shipping products from both vendors, but there you go....
Nope. If they don’t ship, they aren’t first. Who are you trying to bullshit here? Your chinese CCP-run knockoff shop can claim whatever the hell they like, but if it doesn’t ship in a real product it’s completely irrelevant.
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Nope.
Both the Kirin 970 and the Kirin 980 were formally presented at IFA 2017 and IFA 2018 respectively.
These are not 'announcements' but official launches of the new SoCs. The reason the launches are not tied to a product presentation is that Kirins end up in much more than typical mobile devices.
IFA is usually held in August. Logically, the SoC becomes official at launch and if there are firsts involved, they get mentioned.
This clearly irritates you for some reason as you continually jump on these stories. It shouldn't irritate you. It's how things work and there is no mystery involved.
WTF.
Apple actually delivered iPhones with A12's in volume 30 days before Huawei delivered the P20 series, so "launch" dates mean diddly. I argued with you at the time that Huawei was in fact following Apple's TMSC production, which is, as again in this case, absolutely true. Why else would Huawei have held back delivering the P20's? If they did, It would demonstrate how poor their logistics were.
WTF as much as you like. It won't change anything.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
That's what happens with HiSilicon/Huawei. The difference is that in this case the first shipping end product is reserved exclusively for Huawei and Huawei products run to a schedule that depends on many other factors - not only SoC availability.
That's why, to give you a clear example, sites such as Anandtech make clear in their references to the A12 for example that it was the first commercial 7nm SoC.
What grates on you is that Huawei dares use the word 'first'. I'm sorry for you.
It's not even that important given the difference in shipping products from both vendors, but there you go....
No, your point at that time was that Huawei was in production with the 980 first, which was absolutely false. You don't seem to understand that Huawei was showing the 980 SOC from a tape out, not from an actual production run, and you were arguing that to create the impression that Huawei was on an equal footing with Apple at TMSC.
At that time, Apple had been in production on the A12 at TMSC for months, in order to get enough A12's for iPhone delivery's in September.
I reiterate. If Huawei was first on that 7nm production, then why did they delay the delivery of the P20 series until after the iPhone was launched?
No. The Kirin 980 was sitting there on a development board right there at IFA!
It was the whole shebang ready for development.
It had been in mass production in parallel to the A12! IIRC since around April/May. Like is rumoured to be happening now.
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Nope.
Both the Kirin 970 and the Kirin 980 were formally presented at IFA 2017 and IFA 2018 respectively.
These are not 'announcements' but official launches of the new SoCs. The reason the launches are not tied to a product presentation is that Kirins end up in much more than typical mobile devices.
IFA is usually held in August. Logically, the SoC becomes official at launch and if there are firsts involved, they get mentioned.
This clearly irritates you for some reason as you continually jump on these stories. It shouldn't irritate you. It's how things work and there is no mystery involved.
WTF.
Apple actually delivered iPhones with A12's in volume 30 days before Huawei delivered the P20 series, so "launch" dates mean diddly. I argued with you at the time that Huawei was in fact following Apple's TMSC production, which is, as again in this case, absolutely true. Why else would Huawei have held back delivering the P20's? If they did, It would demonstrate how poor their logistics were.
WTF as much as you like. It won't change anything.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
That's what happens with HiSilicon/Huawei. The difference is that in this case the first shipping end product is reserved exclusively for Huawei and Huawei products run to a schedule that depends on many other factors - not only SoC availability.
That's why, to give you a clear example, sites such as Anandtech make clear in their references to the A12 for example that it was the first commercial 7nm SoC.
What grates on you is that Huawei dares use the word 'first'. I'm sorry for you.
It's not even that important given the difference in shipping products from both vendors, but there you go....
No, your point at that time was that Huawei was in production with the 980 first, which was absolutely false. You don't seem to understand that Huawei was showing the 980 SOC from a tape out, not from an actual production run, and you were arguing that to create the impression that Huawei was on an equal footing with Apple at TMSC.
At that time, Apple had been in production on the A12 at TMSC for months, in order to get enough A12's for iPhone delivery's in September.
I reiterate. If Huawei was first on that 7nm production, then why did they delay the delivery of the P20 series until after the iPhone was launched?
No. The Kirin 980 was sitting there on a development board right there at IFA!
It was the whole shebang ready for development.
It had been in mass production in parallel to the A12! IIRC since around April/May. Like is rumoured to be happening now.
And the Mate 20 Series was not 'delayed'. It shipped in accordance to Huawei's plans.
You just made my case for me.
"No. The Kirin 980 was sitting there on a development board right there at IFA!
It was the whole shebang ready for development."
A development board is just limited production from tape out to validate the part. It isn't production.
You seem not to be able to comprehend that.
No. Once again. A development board is a board used for development. It is the finished processor - exactly - as you will find it when (or if) you place an order for a development board.
I didn't make your case in any shape or form. At launch (end of August) the Kirin 980 had been in MASS production for months!
HiSilicon has been producing commercial development boards for years!
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
I don’t know whether your attempts to prove this bullshit are hilarious or pathetic.
Are you so fucking stupid you don’t realize Apple would also have internal development boards for testing/verification long before they release an iPhone? Or that they would have gone through several revisions before committing to mass production of the final version? Or do you think Huawei is the only company that does this?
Given the fact Apple designs their own custom cores (while Huawei has to rely on ARM doing the work for them) it’s a certainty that Apple would be doing more in the verification stage than Huawei since they’re trying new designs that haven’t been tested by anyone else. Apple releasing an A12 and A12X also back this up - two new designs with significant internal differences.
I know it’s painful to accept. Maybe Huawei will grow up one day and figure out how to design a processor on their own
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Apple would have "mules" very early on, a close mockup of the working device, followed by prototype iPhones, pilot production distributed internally, and preproduction devices working even before that A12 hit production, running off of various TMSC tape out and verification runs for the A12, all of low production.
Then, once verified, Apple would have been first for the production run, by nature of the commitment of the volume of SOC's. Hence, why your "story" appears full of holes. Huawei wouldn't have wasted a couple of months after the announcement if they had processors available. They would have been building, and they would have talked about it. So it they were behind Apple in shipping the P20, then it was because they didn't have production processors available.
At best, Huawei was second in line at TMSC, and months behind Apple. Sad!
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
I don’t know whether your attempts to prove this bullshit are hilarious or pathetic.
Are you so fucking stupid you don’t realize Apple would also have internal development boards for testing/verification long before they release an iPhone? Or that they would have gone through several revisions before committing to mass production of the final version? Or do you think Huawei is the only company that does this?
Given the fact Apple designs their own custom cores (while Huawei has to rely on ARM doing the work for them) it’s a certainty that Apple would be doing more in the verification stage than Huawei since they’re trying new designs that haven’t been tested by anyone else. Apple releasing an A12 and A12X also back this up - two new designs with significant internal differences.
I know it’s painful to accept. Maybe Huawei will grow up one day and figure out how to design a processor on their own
When I said that both the Kirin 980 and the A12 were in mass production - INPARALLEL - which part didn't you understand?
When I mentioned the development board it was simply to prove that what was launched in August 2018 was the finished product. Nothing more. Did you get that? Did you understand why it was necessary to point that out? Because someone questioned it! Mission accomplished.
However, now you go off on a completely different tangent about - internal - Apple only development boards. Why? I was talking about commercial, documented 96-Board-certified product with vendor (HiSilicon) support. That has nothing to do with what you are saying.
Now, re-read what I wrote and try to understand it. While you're at it, why not answer my question on the 'big' things from Huawei. You claimed there was nothing. I gave you a list of silicon. The question was simple. Why not answer it?
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Nope.
Both the Kirin 970 and the Kirin 980 were formally presented at IFA 2017 and IFA 2018 respectively.
These are not 'announcements' but official launches of the new SoCs. The reason the launches are not tied to a product presentation is that Kirins end up in much more than typical mobile devices.
IFA is usually held in August. Logically, the SoC becomes official at launch and if there are firsts involved, they get mentioned.
This clearly irritates you for some reason as you continually jump on these stories. It shouldn't irritate you. It's how things work and there is no mystery involved.
Apple’s chip came out first, no matter what you want to believe. In addition, TSMC uses technology that Apple supplies for its chips that no one else gets.
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Last year's 980 was about the same die size as the A12, and near the same transistor count, with the A12 again having about a 20% edge in performance. I don't expect that differential to change much this round. The big question in everyone's mind: will Huawei double down on another benchmark cheat?
There won’t be anything big from Huawei this year. They (and Qualcomm) got lucky last year in that ARM finished their A76 core design in time to coincide with TSMC 7nm production. The “stars aligned” as they say, and that’s why the Kirin 980 was good (though still behind Apple).
This year there’s no new ARM cores to use, so all they can hope for are minor improvements from the slight change that N7 Pro will bring to their existing cores.
Meanwhile Apple gets the upgrade from N7 along with whatever changes they make to their custom cores. Nobody is going to touch the A13 this year, or well into 2020.
You mean Balong 5000, Tiangang, Ascend and the world's fastest wi-fi chipset from Huawei weren't big?
The chipset on my phone is a full generation behind my wife's A12. The big news is that my phone is as fast as her phone on everything we use it for with one exception (camera readiness). But then my camera can take pics that she can't.
CPU Speed stopped being real news to consumers - years ago!
On the other hand wifi and modem speed are something else. Reception is something else. Battery life is something else. Charging is something else. The camera versatility is something else etc
It might be wise to consider these aspects before becoming obfuscated with CPU speed.
It stopped being news for Android phones, because these chips, and phones have steadily fallen further behind Apple’s flagships. The 980 is no exception to that trend. As far as you noticing speed differences, that’s just you. I wouldn’t expect anything else.
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Nope.
Both the Kirin 970 and the Kirin 980 were formally presented at IFA 2017 and IFA 2018 respectively.
These are not 'announcements' but official launches of the new SoCs. The reason the launches are not tied to a product presentation is that Kirins end up in much more than typical mobile devices.
IFA is usually held in August. Logically, the SoC becomes official at launch and if there are firsts involved, they get mentioned.
This clearly irritates you for some reason as you continually jump on these stories. It shouldn't irritate you. It's how things work and there is no mystery involved.
WTF.
Apple actually delivered iPhones with A12's in volume 30 days before Huawei delivered the P20 series, so "launch" dates mean diddly. I argued with you at the time that Huawei was in fact following Apple's TMSC production, which is, as again in this case, absolutely true. Why else would Huawei have held back delivering the P20's? If they did, It would demonstrate how poor their logistics were.
WTF as much as you like. It won't change anything.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
That's what happens with HiSilicon/Huawei. The difference is that in this case the first shipping end product is reserved exclusively for Huawei and Huawei products run to a schedule that depends on many other factors - not only SoC availability.
That's why, to give you a clear example, sites such as Anandtech make clear in their references to the A12 for example that it was the first commercial 7nm SoC.
What grates on you is that Huawei dares use the word 'first'. I'm sorry for you.
It's not even that important given the difference in shipping products from both vendors, but there you go....
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Last year's 980 was about the same die size as the A12, and near the same transistor count, with the A12 again having about a 20% edge in performance. I don't expect that differential to change much this round. The big question in everyone's mind: will Huawei double down on another benchmark cheat?
There won’t be anything big from Huawei this year. They (and Qualcomm) got lucky last year in that ARM finished their A76 core design in time to coincide with TSMC 7nm production. The “stars aligned” as they say, and that’s why the Kirin 980 was good (though still behind Apple).
This year there’s no new ARM cores to use, so all they can hope for are minor improvements from the slight change that N7 Pro will bring to their existing cores.
Meanwhile Apple gets the upgrade from N7 along with whatever changes they make to their custom cores. Nobody is going to touch the A13 this year, or well into 2020.
You clearly don't understand how Huawei operates.
For the Kirin 970 they deliberately shunned the latest ARM cores citing maturity, not availability as the reason. That should tell you a lot.
Yes, the stars did align for the Kirin 980 and not for the first time, right? How good is your memory?
You are happy to say ARM has 'no new cores' and that there will only be 'minor' improvements but we already know the ARM roadmap to 2020 and that Deimos is scheduled for inclusion in 2019 hardware. The stated improvements in Deimos are not minor.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Then why'd you use it as an example?
For clarity of the situation. Nothing more. Seperating the manufacturer of the silicon (and its launch) from the handset vendor (and its launch inside a phone).
As I mentioned, both chips were in production at the same time. The Kirin 980 was the first 7nm official launch. It is as simple as that. The iPhone X (2018 series) was the first phone to use a 7nm SoC.
The difference between the iPhone XS and Mate 20 Pro launches was around 4 weeks.
Huawei will make another “announcement” just before the next iPhone releases claiming they have the worlds first N7 processor in the world.
Nope.
Both the Kirin 970 and the Kirin 980 were formally presented at IFA 2017 and IFA 2018 respectively.
These are not 'announcements' but official launches of the new SoCs. The reason the launches are not tied to a product presentation is that Kirins end up in much more than typical mobile devices.
IFA is usually held in August. Logically, the SoC becomes official at launch and if there are firsts involved, they get mentioned.
This clearly irritates you for some reason as you continually jump on these stories. It shouldn't irritate you. It's how things work and there is no mystery involved.
Apple’s chip came out first, no matter what you want to believe. In addition, TSMC uses technology that Apple supplies for its chips that no one else gets.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Then why'd you use it as an example?
The difference between the iPhone XS and Mate 20 Pro launches was around 4 weeks.
No, it wasn’t. Even without comparing number of devices and when a reasonable time frame for large scale chop production would take place Apple still comes far ahead by in every category… except for the “we announced it first but literally had nothing to show for it” category.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Then why'd you use it as an example?
For clarity of the situation. Nothing more. Seperating the manufacturer of the silicon (and its launch) from the handset vendor (and its launch inside a phone).
As I mentioned, both chips were in production at the same time. The Kirin 980 was the first 7nm official launch. It is as simple as that. The iPhone X (2018 series) was the first phone to use a 7nm SoC.
The difference between the iPhone XS and Mate 20 Pro launches was around 4 weeks.
Relevant amount of 7nm business that is Apple's'
80%
"The world’s biggest electronics company and the world’s biggest foundry have their arms around each other, yet both may find the intimacy a bit uncomfortable. Apple will be risking the regular launch of new iPhones and iPads by counting on TSMC for production of follow-up processors to the A11 without a backup supplier. TSMC, on the other hand, will depend on Apple to fill up nearly 80 percent of its leading-edge 7nm capacity, entering production this year."
That follow up processor would be the A12. I'm guessing that Apple got first dibs.
You might want to check that chart out in the article.
"For TSMC, supporting Apple represents a huge capital investment and a commitment to ramp leading technology at a faster pace than the semiconductor industry is accustomed to, he added."
Apple is driving TMSC, not the rest of its clients.
I have no interest in what the rest of the world is doing processor wise. I will not be buying another iPhone anytime soon so I don’t care about A13 in an iPhone! What would be interesting though is it the new iPads ship with this processor.
Why iPad? Well simply because it could use any performance boost Apple can provide and the Pros are due for an upgrade. A process shrink over A12 should provide Apple with a lot of room for hardware advancements. Hardware improvements that will result in across the board performance improvements.
Intel launches new processors. No one doubts they exist and have been launched. No one claims they only exist once they appear in a product. That's crazy.
Uhh Intel “launches” processors sometimes a full 6 months before they appear in any products, maybe longer. Happened a couple years ago with some chips they announced in January and you couldn’t even get intel’s own NUC with those H chipsets until August. I don’t see any reason to claim that they’ve actually “launched” in reality until you can buy them in a product.
The difference in that regard - and as mentioned above - is that when Huawei launches processors, they have already been in mass production for months.
Then why'd you use it as an example?
The difference between the iPhone XS and Mate 20 Pro launches was around 4 weeks.
No, it wasn’t. Even without comparing number of devices and when a reasonable time frame for large scale chop production would take place Apple still comes far ahead by in every category… except for the “we announced it first but literally had nothing to show for it” category.
You are making yourself look foolish.
If you claim something, at least make sure you can back it up. If you claim something while claiming another person's affirmation is wrong, make sure you can doubly back it up.
In that regard you have already fallen twice in this thread alone.
First you claimed that all that Huawei presented at IFA was "from a tape out, not from an actual production run". You obviously hadn't even seen the presentation. You obviously didn't know the reality of the Mate 20 Series launch either.
If you had seen the presentation and known anything about the launch you would have known, that at that particular time, hundreds of thousands (if not literally millions) of finished phones had to be already accumulating in storage to be presented on 16 October and shipped shortly after.
In fact, and due to a mistake in retail, we know someone actually got the Mate 20 Pro the day before its official presentation. He posted an unboxing video on YouTube! Or did you think that from the official presentation on 16th October they were able to wave a magic wand and conjure up the units. Ridiculous!
Count the days from the presentation of the Kirin 980. What you are saying makes no sense. The fact that you were wrong is just 'one of those things' I suppose, but the fact that you doubled down and claimed something that you couldn't even realistically know is just worrying. Why?
Now, you were wrong for the reasons I just gave but I even made it clear that the finished SoC was there at IFA on development boards (I hope you can understand why they didn't show it on a Mate 20 motherboard!) and you even disputed that and once again showed zero knowledge of how Huawei operates. This time with HiSilicon development boards. If you don't know, it's better to say so or simply not say anything.
Now, you are at it again, this time on the subject of release dates.
Here is what I said:
The difference between the iPhone XS and Mate 20 Pro launches was around 4 weeks.
To which you reply:
"No it wasn't"
Do you really need to argue this? Why?
I was speaking off the top of my head.
IIRC, Officially, iPhone XS series shipped on 21st September. The Mate 20 series on 26th October. What is your problem with that?
Now, that is the official shipping date but we already know that the units were actually available (in error) in some places from at least the 15th October.
And as you are disproven, point by point, you don't even admit to it. You simply jump into the next hole you have dug for yourself.
What you are trying to dispute is absurd.
EDIT: I will retract the last point as it is not attributable to you. The AI parsing of quotes often screws up. While posting the reply, that part showed as written by you. On posting, it shows it was written by Soli.
The arguing about did what first and who beat who with hardware features is silly. Consumrrs purchase systems that are integrations of hardware and software. Providing them with a set of capabilities. How these systems function for a consumer is what is important. The hardware jockeys can argue all day long. Consumers really don’t care. The real question is can Apple increase demand for its products through advancements that consumers value?
the other big story/question is what is going on with Intel and their inability to produce chips at even 10 nm? They are still stuck at 14 nm. The US, especially SiliconValley, is supposed to be the worldwide leaders in tech. Clearly this isn’t the case with Intel. Intel should be producing chips that can compete with TSMC and Huawei. They could potentially be an Apple supplier, but they can’t be. Big issues at Intel.
Comments
"No. The Kirin 980 was sitting there on a development board right there at IFA!
It was the whole shebang ready for development."
A development board is just limited production from tape out to validate the part. It isn't production.
You seem not to be able to comprehend that.
I didn't make your case in any shape or form. At launch (end of August) the Kirin 980 had been in MASS production for months!
HiSilicon has been producing commercial development boards for years!
For example an example of a Kirin 970 board:
https://www.96boards.org/documentation/consumer/hikey/hikey970/hardware-docs/
I don’t know whether your attempts to prove this bullshit are hilarious or pathetic.
Are you so fucking stupid you don’t realize Apple would also have internal development boards for testing/verification long before they release an iPhone? Or that they would have gone through several revisions before committing to mass production of the final version? Or do you think Huawei is the only company that does this?
Given the fact Apple designs their own custom cores (while Huawei has to rely on ARM doing the work for them) it’s a certainty that Apple would be doing more in the verification stage than Huawei since they’re trying new designs that haven’t been tested by anyone else. Apple releasing an A12 and A12X also back this up - two new designs with significant internal differences.
I know it’s painful to accept. Maybe Huawei will grow up one day and figure out how to design a processor on their own
Then, once verified, Apple would have been first for the production run, by nature of the commitment of the volume of SOC's. Hence, why your "story" appears full of holes. Huawei wouldn't have wasted a couple of months after the announcement if they had processors available. They would have been building, and they would have talked about it. So it they were behind Apple in shipping the P20, then it was because they didn't have production processors available.
At best, Huawei was second in line at TMSC, and months behind Apple. Sad!
When I mentioned the development board it was simply to prove that what was launched in August 2018 was the finished product. Nothing more. Did you get that? Did you understand why it was necessary to point that out? Because someone questioned it! Mission accomplished.
However, now you go off on a completely different tangent about - internal - Apple only development boards. Why? I was talking about commercial, documented 96-Board-certified product with vendor (HiSilicon) support. That has nothing to do with what you are saying.
Now, re-read what I wrote and try to understand it. While you're at it, why not answer my question on the 'big' things from Huawei. You claimed there was nothing. I gave you a list of silicon. The question was simple. Why not answer it?
It stopped being news for Android phones, because these chips, and phones have steadily fallen further behind Apple’s flagships. The 980 is no exception to that trend. As far as you noticing speed differences, that’s just you. I wouldn’t expect anything else.
Interesting, but Apple’s chip was still first.
For the Kirin 970 they deliberately shunned the latest ARM cores citing maturity, not availability as the reason. That should tell you a lot.
Yes, the stars did align for the Kirin 980 and not for the first time, right? How good is your memory?
You are happy to say ARM has 'no new cores' and that there will only be 'minor' improvements but we already know the ARM roadmap to 2020 and that Deimos is scheduled for inclusion in 2019 hardware. The stated improvements in Deimos are not minor.
As I mentioned, both chips were in production at the same time. The Kirin 980 was the first 7nm official launch. It is as simple as that. The iPhone X (2018 series) was the first phone to use a 7nm SoC.
The difference between the iPhone XS and Mate 20 Pro launches was around 4 weeks.
80%
"The world’s biggest electronics company and the world’s biggest foundry have their arms around each other, yet both may find the intimacy a bit uncomfortable. Apple will be risking the regular launch of new iPhones and iPads by counting on TSMC for production of follow-up processors to the A11 without a backup supplier. TSMC, on the other hand, will depend on Apple to fill up nearly 80 percent of its leading-edge 7nm capacity, entering production this year."
That follow up processor would be the A12. I'm guessing that Apple got first dibs.
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333615#
You might want to check that chart out in the article.
"For TSMC, supporting Apple represents a huge capital investment and a commitment to ramp leading technology at a faster pace than the semiconductor industry is accustomed to, he added."
Apple is driving TMSC, not the rest of its clients.
Why iPad? Well simply because it could use any performance boost Apple can provide and the Pros are due for an upgrade. A process shrink over A12 should provide Apple with a lot of room for hardware advancements. Hardware improvements that will result in across the board performance improvements.
If you claim something, at least make sure you can back it up. If you claim something while claiming another person's affirmation is wrong, make sure you can doubly back it up.
In that regard you have already fallen twice in this thread alone.
First you claimed that all that Huawei presented at IFA was "from a tape out, not from an actual production run". You obviously hadn't even seen the presentation. You obviously didn't know the reality of the Mate 20 Series launch either.
If you had seen the presentation and known anything about the launch you would have known, that at that particular time, hundreds of thousands (if not literally millions) of finished phones had to be already accumulating in storage to be presented on 16 October and shipped shortly after.
In fact, and due to a mistake in retail, we know someone actually got the Mate 20 Pro the day before its official presentation. He posted an unboxing video on YouTube! Or did you think that from the official presentation on 16th October they were able to wave a magic wand and conjure up the units. Ridiculous!
Count the days from the presentation of the Kirin 980. What you are saying makes no sense. The fact that you were wrong is just 'one of those things' I suppose, but the fact that you doubled down and claimed something that you couldn't even realistically know is just worrying. Why?
Now, you were wrong for the reasons I just gave but I even made it clear that the finished SoC was there at IFA on development boards (I hope you can understand why they didn't show it on a Mate 20 motherboard!) and you even disputed that and once again showed zero knowledge of how Huawei operates. This time with HiSilicon development boards. If you don't know, it's better to say so or simply not say anything.
Now, you are at it again, this time on the subject of release dates.
Here is what I said:
"No it wasn't"
Do you really need to argue this? Why?
I was speaking off the top of my head.
IIRC, Officially, iPhone XS series shipped on 21st September. The Mate 20 series on 26th October. What is your problem with that?
Now, that is the official shipping date but we already know that the units were actually available (in error) in some places from at least the 15th October.
And as you are disproven, point by point, you don't even admit to it. You simply jump into the next hole you have dug for yourself.
What you are trying to dispute is absurd.
EDIT: I will retract the last point as it is not attributable to you. The AI parsing of quotes often screws up. While posting the reply, that part showed as written by you. On posting, it shows it was written by Soli.
the other big story/question is what is going on with Intel and their inability to produce chips at even 10 nm? They are still stuck at 14 nm. The US, especially SiliconValley, is supposed to be the worldwide leaders in tech. Clearly this isn’t the case with Intel. Intel should be producing chips that can compete with TSMC and Huawei. They could potentially be an Apple supplier, but they can’t be. Big issues at Intel.