ARM severs ties with Huawei, creating crisis for future phone designs

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  • Reply 41 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. 
    Your creating an equivalency, regarding the quality of information provided by a democratically elected, accountable government (Trump's and Obama's, both of whom have found issues with Huawei -- in fact, Trump is merely following up on many of the issues left over from the Obama administration) operating in a society with a free press to a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship that controls speech and movement, is beyond troubling.

    It's actually shocking.
    Huawei is a private company as it has insisted. In order to justify the statement that China is a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship, the China bashers insisted that Huawei is a Chinese government entity although they provided no evidence.
    No, they aren't. Its leader is a CPC member, and the US Security Council has been debriefed by US intelligence agencies that they are effectively an arm of the CPC. As every Chinese company is, really, as by law they must do as the government orders them to do.

    Are you in denial, or just paid or to spread misinformation? Or coerced? Are you OK?
    You have a flawed logic too. So every Republican in the US works for US government? Come on! Stop using this low level illogical argument. I thought the western world is superior to China because they learned logic. Apparently logic has to be learned over and over. And don't use the US Security Council to support you. Because we cannot see the briefing. It is not transparent. If it is not open to the public you can not use it in your logic. 
    What on earth are you talking about? Yes, any Republican in federal office works for the US government. That's who writes their paychecks.

    As for China, there is only one party -- the murderous CPC, who will imprison or disappear anybody they disagree with.

    As a resident, I don't need to personally see security briefings -- we have a representative republic. They get to see them. If the US senators say they exist, I believe them. If you got to discredit everything you never personally saw then it would bring vast amounts of knowledge into doubt, as you personally never vetted most everything in life.

    Your bosses are authoritarian dictators. I may not like the Trump administration, but I dislike the ultra-corrupt, murderous Chinese government even less. It's a no-brainer. Trusting an authoritarian regime with the global internet is beyond stupid. 
    One of the interesting aspect of Huawei specifically, and Chine more generally, is that the trade war is supported by almost all political factions in the U.S. In fact, it could be argued that the only support of Huawei and China is tech obsessed Geeks and Nerds, and likely not many of those either.
    edited May 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member

    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. 
    Your creating an equivalency, regarding the quality of information provided by a democratically elected, accountable government (Trump's and Obama's, both of whom have found issues with Huawei -- in fact, Trump is merely following up on many of the issues left over from the Obama administration) operating in a society with a free press to a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship that controls speech and movement, is beyond troubling.

    It's actually shocking.
    You are being fooled about the IP-thieving accusation. It is done by Chinese companies. Chinese government has repeatedly denied it .... 
    OK. You're agreeing that Chinese companies steal IP. So, even if Huawei were solely a private company with no ties to the government, you're telling me that they stole IP to get to where they were. That is unconscionable behavior on their part.

    But, as you know the actions against Huawei by the US government are not for IP theft, but national security reasons. It has to do with their opaque code, the concern over backdoors, concern over Chinese tech firms being under the control of the government when it comes to information, and concern over whether Huawei was truly independent of the government. On top of which, Huawei is not willing to provide detailed financial information (as pointed out above), which would allow the US to assess their ownership structure.

    Bottom line: your arguments make no sense. or to the extent they do, they work against you.
    In the most general sense, western world invented almost all the IPs in the modern world. You can say Chinese companies stole the western world IP. But in a legal sense, unless they stole a patent they are not against the law. I think the crimes the Chinese companies made is copycat. If you insist to use the most general definition then Google and Microsoft are first in stealing IPs from Apple. Why they are not targeted?

    Regarding the national security, did you read the statement by Department of Commerce? It is a violation of US law sanction Iran. Why there is such a law? Because after 911, US classified many entities as terrorist groups. The Israel wants to add PLA to the list. And US agreed. Iran sympathized with PLA, Accordingly Israel asked US to include Iran as a terrorist nation. US complied with Israel. So the bottom line is Huawei is a national security threat to Israel. Do you see how the logic evolves, I think a lot of European nations and Russia will agree with what I said. Only American people are constantly being fooled. 
    You stated you weren't part of the United Front, but you seem an obvious CCP influencer, bent on dispersing propaganda as an exercise in Chinese soft power.

    Funny how you thought that I was a supporter of Falun Gong merely because I attempt to be a well informed U.S. Citizen. I'd surmise that is who your handlers told you would be making counterarguments to the CCP and Chinese Government.

    Guess what, China is going to have bigger problems that Falun Gong, as word continues to spread on what is happening to the Uyghurs in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China.

    Do you need links posted, or does your handler block that word Uyghur and disallow you to discuss it?

    Fuck it, here's a fresh story on the Xinjiang Autonomous Region, an authoritarian surveillance incubator:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/world/asia/china-surveillance-xinjiang.html
    edited May 2019 LordeHawk
  • Reply 43 of 81
    TuuborTuubor Posts: 53member
    *makes another bowl of popcorn* 😎
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 81
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,036member
    Regardless of your political outlook, the US would be insane to let ChiCom sourced equipment build out the 5G network.
  • Reply 45 of 81
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    tzeshan said:
    But in a legal sense, unless they stole a patent they are not against the law. I think the crimes the Chinese companies made is copycat.
    LOL. You appear to be completely bereft of any sense of the law, morality or ethicality in the basic rules of the road by which economic transactions are supposed to work.

    What a bizarro world you folks live in.

    But, as we're seeing, the bill is coming due. In a big way. To paraphrase from another setting and time when the US was challenged, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Good luck, buddy, with the New Long March.
    edited May 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 81
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member

    tmay said:
    ... there is in fact a number of National Security issues with Huawei, and I posted the link to what the Australians had determined in their adversary simulations. Would you also blame the Czechs and Australia for "absolute protectionism"?
    Didn't the Dutch also recently come up with security issues vis-a-vis Huawei?
    LordeHawkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 81
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member

    avon b7 said:
    acejax805 said:
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. A lot of the concerns seem to be pure conjecture or hypotheticals and ignore the fact that all countries, US and EU ones included, have both the ability and incentives to place surveillance inside any hardware or software communication platforms and equipment, whether at the manufacturing point of origin or through interception anywhere in the supply, distribution, or service channels and pretty much regardless of where the equipment is deployed. It's not like Huawei is building a giant ship with a massive crane to mine manganese nodules from the bottom of the ocean off the east coast of the US, or anything like that...
    There is absolutely nothing more than you point out.

    The Trump administration simply didn't want to see the Chinese take a tech lead (5G for example) over the US.

    Trump tried to get other countries to do the dirty work by banning Huawei. Most of those countries refused (after requesting evidence and not getting any) and as a US ban wasn't going to be enough, he simply declared a 'national emergency' to justify an executive order. This in spite of court cases (by both sides) already being underway.

    Why wait for the legalities to be cleared up when you can skip that part altogether?

    We are now in Wild West Politics and the sheriff is acting like one of those dodgy sheriffs in some crazy western.

    Blatant protectionism and nothing else save for the conjecture and hypotheticals.

    This is not the precedent the US should be setting on a world stage. 

    Not sure what world you've been living in the last 100 or so years, but this is what politics is. This is what countries do. They manage deals, relationships, et.al. that protect their country and their interests. People are so upset that the US is finally doing the same thing. China has been doing this since the 1980s. What rock has everyone been living under? Now the outrage comes out? Disingenuous af. 
    Enlighten me with some cases on this scale.

    Protectionism. Not national security.
    Even if it's protectionism, it's quite mild compared to how China protects its markets. Heck, major world-beating tech and social networking US companies such as Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter etc, and major US financial services companies, and the websites of pretty much every major news provider in the world (there are 10,000 such) are banned in China.

    It's little wonder you guys are so ignorant. Or, as someone noted, you must be some sad little bots.
    edited May 2019 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member

    tmay said:
    ... there is in fact a number of National Security issues with Huawei, and I posted the link to what the Australians had determined in their adversary simulations. Would you also blame the Czechs and Australia for "absolute protectionism"?
    Didn't the Dutch also recently come up with security issues vis-a-vis Huawei?
    Yep.

    All the EU countries have concerns, but the Telecoms are all about low cost, and that's what state supported Huawei provides.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 81
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    tmay said:

    tmay said:
    ... there is in fact a number of National Security issues with Huawei, and I posted the link to what the Australians had determined in their adversary simulations. Would you also blame the Czechs and Australia for "absolute protectionism"?
    Didn't the Dutch also recently come up with security issues vis-a-vis Huawei?
    Yep.

    All the EU countries have concerns, but the Telecoms are all about low cost, and that's what state supported Huawei provides.
    Ah, it never ends -- a just-posted story at WSJ.com: https://www.wsj.com/articles/huawei-executive-is-accused-of-involvement-in-trade-secrets-theft-u-s-startup-said-in-court-filings-11558550468?tesla=y&mod=article_inline ;

    "Your honor, but, but, we did nothing illegal: we were just copycatting".
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member
    tmay said:

    tmay said:
    ... there is in fact a number of National Security issues with Huawei, and I posted the link to what the Australians had determined in their adversary simulations. Would you also blame the Czechs and Australia for "absolute protectionism"?
    Didn't the Dutch also recently come up with security issues vis-a-vis Huawei?
    Yep.

    All the EU countries have concerns, but the Telecoms are all about low cost, and that's what state supported Huawei provides.
    Ah, it never ends -- a just-posted story at WSJ.com: https://www.wsj.com/articles/huawei-executive-is-accused-of-involvement-in-trade-secrets-theft-u-s-startup-said-in-court-filings-11558550468?tesla=y&mod=article_inline ;

    "Your honor, but, but, we did nothing illegal: we were just copycatting".
    Like I said, almost everyone in the U.S. is united in wanting to do something about the Chinese stealing our tech, and our jobs.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 81
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,485member
    sirozha said:
    Called it.

    Now what will Huawei do, since they lack the ability to design their own processors?
    Who says they lack the ability to design their own processors?

    Can you name any Huawei custom designed processors? Their mobile devices use straight up plain vanilla ARM cores. Their server processors either use vanilla ARM cores or they slightly modify ARM cores (which is NOT the same as designing a processor from scratch, like Apple does).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 81
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,694member

    avon b7 said:
    acejax805 said:
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. A lot of the concerns seem to be pure conjecture or hypotheticals and ignore the fact that all countries, US and EU ones included, have both the ability and incentives to place surveillance inside any hardware or software communication platforms and equipment, whether at the manufacturing point of origin or through interception anywhere in the supply, distribution, or service channels and pretty much regardless of where the equipment is deployed. It's not like Huawei is building a giant ship with a massive crane to mine manganese nodules from the bottom of the ocean off the east coast of the US, or anything like that...
    There is absolutely nothing more than you point out.

    The Trump administration simply didn't want to see the Chinese take a tech lead (5G for example) over the US.

    Trump tried to get other countries to do the dirty work by banning Huawei. Most of those countries refused (after requesting evidence and not getting any) and as a US ban wasn't going to be enough, he simply declared a 'national emergency' to justify an executive order. This in spite of court cases (by both sides) already being underway.

    Why wait for the legalities to be cleared up when you can skip that part altogether?

    We are now in Wild West Politics and the sheriff is acting like one of those dodgy sheriffs in some crazy western.

    Blatant protectionism and nothing else save for the conjecture and hypotheticals.

    This is not the precedent the US should be setting on a world stage. 

    Not sure what world you've been living in the last 100 or so years, but this is what politics is. This is what countries do. They manage deals, relationships, et.al. that protect their country and their interests. People are so upset that the US is finally doing the same thing. China has been doing this since the 1980s. What rock has everyone been living under? Now the outrage comes out? Disingenuous af. 
    Enlighten me with some cases on this scale.

    Protectionism. Not national security.
    That's just like, your opinion, man. You can't prove that assertion. I have no reason to believe my senators are lying to me. I certainly trust them more than some chinese apologist on a website.
    Trust & politicians don't get hand-in-hand.  If you haven't learned that then there's no helping you.
  • Reply 53 of 81
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,694member

    avon b7 said:
    acejax805 said:
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. A lot of the concerns seem to be pure conjecture or hypotheticals and ignore the fact that all countries, US and EU ones included, have both the ability and incentives to place surveillance inside any hardware or software communication platforms and equipment, whether at the manufacturing point of origin or through interception anywhere in the supply, distribution, or service channels and pretty much regardless of where the equipment is deployed. It's not like Huawei is building a giant ship with a massive crane to mine manganese nodules from the bottom of the ocean off the east coast of the US, or anything like that...
    There is absolutely nothing more than you point out.

    The Trump administration simply didn't want to see the Chinese take a tech lead (5G for example) over the US.

    Trump tried to get other countries to do the dirty work by banning Huawei. Most of those countries refused (after requesting evidence and not getting any) and as a US ban wasn't going to be enough, he simply declared a 'national emergency' to justify an executive order. This in spite of court cases (by both sides) already being underway.

    Why wait for the legalities to be cleared up when you can skip that part altogether?

    We are now in Wild West Politics and the sheriff is acting like one of those dodgy sheriffs in some crazy western.

    Blatant protectionism and nothing else save for the conjecture and hypotheticals.

    This is not the precedent the US should be setting on a world stage. 

    Not sure what world you've been living in the last 100 or so years, but this is what politics is. This is what countries do. They manage deals, relationships, et.al. that protect their country and their interests. People are so upset that the US is finally doing the same thing. China has been doing this since the 1980s. What rock has everyone been living under? Now the outrage comes out? Disingenuous af. 
    Enlighten me with some cases on this scale.

    Protectionism. Not national security.
    Even if it's protectionism, it's quite mild compared to how China protects its markets. Heck, major world-beating tech and social networking US companies such as Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter etc, and major US financial services companies, and the websites of pretty much every major news provider in the world (there are 10,000 such) are banned in China.

    It's little wonder you guys are so ignorant. Or, as someone noted, you must be some sad little bots.
    They are banned in China because they refuse to follow the laws in China like every other company doing business in China.  Why should they get special treatment?
  • Reply 54 of 81
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member

    avon b7 said:
    acejax805 said:
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. A lot of the concerns seem to be pure conjecture or hypotheticals and ignore the fact that all countries, US and EU ones included, have both the ability and incentives to place surveillance inside any hardware or software communication platforms and equipment, whether at the manufacturing point of origin or through interception anywhere in the supply, distribution, or service channels and pretty much regardless of where the equipment is deployed. It's not like Huawei is building a giant ship with a massive crane to mine manganese nodules from the bottom of the ocean off the east coast of the US, or anything like that...
    There is absolutely nothing more than you point out.

    The Trump administration simply didn't want to see the Chinese take a tech lead (5G for example) over the US.

    Trump tried to get other countries to do the dirty work by banning Huawei. Most of those countries refused (after requesting evidence and not getting any) and as a US ban wasn't going to be enough, he simply declared a 'national emergency' to justify an executive order. This in spite of court cases (by both sides) already being underway.

    Why wait for the legalities to be cleared up when you can skip that part altogether?

    We are now in Wild West Politics and the sheriff is acting like one of those dodgy sheriffs in some crazy western.

    Blatant protectionism and nothing else save for the conjecture and hypotheticals.

    This is not the precedent the US should be setting on a world stage. 

    Not sure what world you've been living in the last 100 or so years, but this is what politics is. This is what countries do. They manage deals, relationships, et.al. that protect their country and their interests. People are so upset that the US is finally doing the same thing. China has been doing this since the 1980s. What rock has everyone been living under? Now the outrage comes out? Disingenuous af. 
    Enlighten me with some cases on this scale.

    Protectionism. Not national security.
    Even if it's protectionism, it's quite mild compared to how China protects its markets. Heck, major world-beating tech and social networking US companies such as Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter etc, and major US financial services companies, and the websites of pretty much every major news provider in the world (there are 10,000 such) are banned in China.

    It's little wonder you guys are so ignorant. Or, as someone noted, you must be some sad little bots.
    They are banned in China because they refuse to follow the laws in China like every other company doing business in China.  Why should they get special treatment?
    Ah, the same logic applies to Huawei at al. So, no big deal. Move along.

    Silly post.
    tmayCarnagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 81
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,623member
    sdw2001 said:

    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. A lot of the concerns seem to be pure conjecture or hypotheticals and ignore the fact that all countries, US and EU ones included, have both the ability and incentives to place surveillance inside any hardware or software communication platforms and equipment, whether at the manufacturing point of origin or through interception anywhere in the supply, distribution, or service channels and pretty much regardless of where the equipment is deployed. It's not like Huawei is building a giant ship with a massive crane to mine manganese nodules from the bottom of the ocean off the east coast of the US, or anything like that...
    There is absolutely nothing more than you point out.

    The Trump administration simply didn't want to see the Chinese take a tech lead (5G for example) over the US.

    Trump tried to get other countries to do the dirty work by banning Huawei. Most of those countries refused (after requesting evidence and not getting any) and as a US ban wasn't going to be enough, he simply declared a 'national emergency' to justify an executive order. This in spite of court cases (by both sides) already being underway.

    Why wait for the legalities to be cleared up when you can skip that part altogether?

    We are now in Wild West Politics and the sheriff is acting like one of those dodgy sheriffs in some crazy western.

    Blatant protectionism and nothing else save for the conjecture and hypotheticals.

    This is not the precedent the US should be setting on a world stage. 

     
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-usa-5g-specialreport/special-report-hobbling-huawei-inside-the-u-s-war-on-chinas-tech-giant-idUSKCN1SR1EU?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

    "Europeans pushed back, too. During one closed-door session, senior representatives from European telecom operators pressed a U.S. official for hard evidence that Huawei presented a security risk. One executive demanded to see a smoking gun, recalled the U.S. official. 


    The American official fired back: “If the gun is smoking, you’ve already been shot. I don’t know why you’re lining up in front of a loaded weapon.”


    I suspect that the U.S. sees Huawei as both "personal' and "strategic" to both Xi and China, based on all of the telegraphing Huawei and China have been doing about Huawei's breadth of accomplishments and basic resistance to Huawei.

    "Politics is war by other means"

    https://oll.libertyfund.org/pages/clausewitz-war-as-politics-by-other-means



    Or, as Tony Soprano might say, "We're going to bust their balls"


    Xi should have never backed out on the agreements that they made in the earlier trade negotiations.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/world/asia/trade-xi-jinping-trump-china-united-states.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

    "BEIJING — China’s leader, Xi Jinping, seemed confident three weeks ago that a yearlong trade war with the United States could soon subside, handing him a potent political victory.

    He even made a speech saying China would protect intellectual property, encourage foreign investment, and buy more goods and services from abroad — all changes the United States had been demanding as the countries tried to negotiate a deal.

    But just a week after that speech, Chinese negotiators sent the Americans a substantially rewritten draft agreement, prompting President Trump to accuse Beijing of reneging on terms that had been settled.

    That has left hopes for a historic breakthrough in tatters."

    Credit to the Czechs and Australians for leading off against Huawei.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-usa-5g-specialreport/special-report-hobbling-huawei-inside-the-u-s-war-on-chinas-tech-giant-idUSKCN1SR1EU?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews


    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/how-australia-led-the-us-in-its-global-war-against-huawei-20190522-p51pv8.html

    What you just posted tacitly admitted that there is 'nothing in the bag' on Huawei. Something that simply confirms the madness in all this.

    However, we don't need much more than Trump's own words to see why this is happening. The fact that he is getting away with it (at least so far) says a lot about the damage he is causing around the world. I really can't see it lasting.

    China is preparing a response (according to the latest rumours) that puts Apple squarely in its crosshairs as a tit-for-tat  counter for the Huawei move and that will supposedly hit multibillion dollar Chinese investments in the US.

    The 'smoking gun' reference is a sign of how low things have got. Did he not understand that, through that reference, he will have to accept that other powers will be able to argue their cases in exactly the same way? Or does he think that only the US should be allowed that 'right'?

    This is pure, absolute protectionism. Nothing more.

    1.  What's in the bag?  The Chinese government's relationship to private industry.  

    2.  What "damage" is Trump causing around the world?  I'm quite serious.  

    3.  China does not have the economic firepower to drastically affect us.  The only thing they could really do is dump U.S. treasuries onto the market.  That would tank our economy, which in turn would tank the world economy.  It's suicide.  We could eliminate all trade with China within a few years and we'd recover just fine.  China would not.  They are 2% of our economy.  We are 20% of theirs.  

    4.  This is not protectionism.  This is called "fighting the war we have."   Trump is using tariffs to force China to make a better deal and get them to stop their blatant IP theft and cheating on trade.  The war doesn't go away just because you pretend it doesn't exist (just as every Republican and Democrat administration did before Trump).  
    1. Evidence to support the claims the US has tabled against Huawei (as 'required' by many countries).

    2. Trump is behaving like a Sheriff in some small US town where he thinks he can call all the shots. The problem is that it isn't a town but the world and the damage is instability - now - but with possible long term effects, the financial impact of his actions and the political fallout associated with his unpredictability. Actions which are often claimed to fall into the judicial plane but that can be plucked from that plane for commercial or political reasons.

    3. I suggest we wait and see on this. This is not the China of old. They had planned to plough a trillion dollars into the US (purchases of Boeing aircraft). There is a multibillion liquid gas infrastructure project (Alaska) that could be affected (along with a reduction of US gas purchases). Apple could be hit very hard but things are getting so tough for US business that even the US sports footwear industry has already told Trump they want him to find a solution before China raises tariffs. Isn't Trump's latest  action all about reducing that 20%? Because that could happen. The difference now (just like the EU) is that China has domestic demand. It can play off itself and find alternatives (Boeing to Airbus for example).

    4. It's protectionism. That is beyond doubt at this point.
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 56 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    dewme said:
    I really wish there was some objective, scientific, and non-politicized coverage of the actual issues the US has with Huawei. 
    Your creating an equivalency, regarding the quality of information provided by a democratically elected, accountable government (Trump's and Obama's, both of whom have found issues with Huawei -- in fact, Trump is merely following up on many of the issues left over from the Obama administration) operating in a society with a free press to a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship that controls speech and movement, is beyond troubling.

    It's actually shocking.
    Huawei is a private company as it has insisted. In order to justify the statement that China is a draconian IP-thieving communist dictatorship, the China bashers insisted that Huawei is a Chinese government entity although they provided no evidence.
    No, they aren't. Its leader is a CPC member, and the US Security Council has been debriefed by US intelligence agencies that they are effectively an arm of the CPC. As every Chinese company is, really, as by law they must do as the government orders them to do.

    Are you in denial, or just paid or to spread misinformation? Or coerced? Are you OK?
    You have a flawed logic too. So every Republican in the US works for US government? Come on! Stop using this low level illogical argument. I thought the western world is superior to China because they learned logic. Apparently logic has to be learned over and over. And don't use the US Security Council to support you. Because we cannot see the briefing. It is not transparent. If it is not open to the public you can not use it in your logic. 
    What on earth are you talking about? Yes, any Republican in federal office works for the US government. That's who writes their paychecks.

    As for China, there is only one party -- the murderous CPC, who will imprison or disappear anybody they disagree with.

    As a resident, I don't need to personally see security briefings -- we have a representative republic. They get to see them. If the US senators say they exist, I believe them. If you got to discredit everything you never personally saw then it would bring vast amounts of knowledge into doubt, as you personally never vetted most everything in life.

    Your bosses are authoritarian dictators. I may not like the Trump administration, but I dislike the ultra-corrupt, murderous Chinese government even less. It's a no-brainer. Trusting an authoritarian regime with the global internet is beyond stupid. 
    "If the US senators say they exist, I believe them."

    Then you are naive and gullible.  That's called being a sheep
    Yeah, but China won't do shit to Canada. /s

    Well, except for Chinese influence operations, recent canola " quality issues", and a couple of Canadians rounded up in China coincidentally after Meng Wanzhou was placed under house arrest. Those two Canadians haven't been able to meet counsel, or their families, and have been charged with "espionage" by China, which according to your take, has the same legal structures as "bad" old America. Actually, the U.S. and Canada have quite similar legal structures, as one would expect for two spinoffs of England, though I'll bet China isn't exactly a great place to buck the system.

    For the record, it is the Czechs and Australians that have been leading against Huawei, but of course, they must be as naive and gullible as us American "sheep", and of course, the National Security apparatus in the various EU countries have been sounding the alarm, but low cost and fast is what the gullible public is really after. Privacy and National Security are for losers; give me my P40 Pro!

    Do I have that about right?

    That you are an uninformed Canadian?

    Become informed. Here's a article about Chinese influence in Australia;

    https://jamestown.org/program/how-beijing-is-shaping-politics-in-western-australia/

    Oh, wtf, you aren't going to read it.

    Summary is Chinese diaspora working on behalf of the Chinese Government, are involved in influencing Australian politics towards favoring Beijing policies, which is coincidentally what is happening in Canada. Not to worry, it's happening in the U.Sl, New Zealand, Britain, and, well all of the EU, as well.

    The U.S. seems "naive" enough to at least try to do something about Chinese Influence.


    edited May 2019 anantksundaramLordeHawkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 81
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    But in a legal sense, unless they stole a patent they are not against the law. I think the crimes the Chinese companies made is copycat.
    LOL. You appear to be completely bereft of any sense of the law, morality or ethicality in the basic rules of the road by which economic transactions are supposed to work.

    What a bizarro world you folks live in.

    But, as we're seeing, the bill is coming due. In a big way. To paraphrase from another setting and time when the US was challenged, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Good luck, buddy, with the New Long March.
    Right the sleeping giant is awakened and 15,000 stores are closing. US will be great again by big mouth alone. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 58 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,311member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    But in a legal sense, unless they stole a patent they are not against the law. I think the crimes the Chinese companies made is copycat.
    LOL. You appear to be completely bereft of any sense of the law, morality or ethicality in the basic rules of the road by which economic transactions are supposed to work.

    What a bizarro world you folks live in.

    But, as we're seeing, the bill is coming due. In a big way. To paraphrase from another setting and time when the US was challenged, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Good luck, buddy, with the New Long March.
    Right the sleeping giant is awakened and 15,000 stores are closing. US will be great again by big mouth alone. 
    You might want to do something about that African Swine Flu. I hear it has killed some 200 million pigs in China, about half the population, driving prices higher, and certainly killing demand for soy beans and other feeds that China buys on the world market. I read that it took Spain 35 years to fully eradicate ASF. I hope China has better luck; obviously they don't seem to be benefitting from animal husbandry science.
    anantksundaramwatto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 81
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    But in a legal sense, unless they stole a patent they are not against the law. I think the crimes the Chinese companies made is copycat.
    LOL. You appear to be completely bereft of any sense of the law, morality or ethicality in the basic rules of the road by which economic transactions are supposed to work.

    What a bizarro world you folks live in.

    But, as we're seeing, the bill is coming due. In a big way. To paraphrase from another setting and time when the US was challenged, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Good luck, buddy, with the New Long March.
    Right the sleeping giant is awakened and 15,000 stores are closing. US will be great again by big mouth alone. 
    Um... ok. 

    Whatever. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 81
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    But in a legal sense, unless they stole a patent they are not against the law. I think the crimes the Chinese companies made is copycat.
    LOL. You appear to be completely bereft of any sense of the law, morality or ethicality in the basic rules of the road by which economic transactions are supposed to work.

    What a bizarro world you folks live in.

    But, as we're seeing, the bill is coming due. In a big way. To paraphrase from another setting and time when the US was challenged, you've awakened the sleeping giant. Good luck, buddy, with the New Long March.
    Right the sleeping giant is awakened and 15,000 stores are closing. US will be great again by big mouth alone. 
    Um... ok. 

    Whatever. 
    LOL Whatever. First it is MAGA moving jobs back to US to make America again. Many factories are relocating to Vietnam. Yes, it is ok. As long as they are moving out of China. US can let other countries make money just not China because it is a dictatorial communist country. Wait! When did Vietnam become a democracy? I must be getting too old and missed this big event. 
    muthuk_vanalingamdewme
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