"Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."
Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.
As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.
As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.
This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
Why anyone out side of China even talks or supports Huawei ? They work with Chinese government,proved major security issues and copy, intellectual property steal,espionage issues. AT&T and Verizon dropped from offering and any 5G collaboration..
"Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."
Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.
As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.
As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.
This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
Why anyone out side of China even talks or supports Huawei ? They work with Chinese government,proved major security issues and copy, intellectual property steal,espionage issues. AT&T and Verizon dropped from offering and any 5G collaboration..
- Huawei says they don't. - Huawei works with over 170 countries worldwide. - AT&T spent more than a year working with Huawei to tune it's phones to its networks. - AT&T signed an agreement to carry Huawei phones. - AT&T works with Huawei in Mexico.
None of the above would have happened if their was any reason to suspect Huawei's activities.
Now a reality check. While Huawei became a major player in 4G, it began investing heavily in 5G and will be a major force. The US government doesn't like that idea but did nothing to avoid the current situation. Really nothing. Now it's waking up to reality and sees the only 'solution' as building its own 5G Network. A little late for that don't you think?
So, on top of a de facto ban on major carriers using Huawei communications equipment, the government is taking protectionist measures and trying to stop Huawei challenging Apple on its home turf. All part of larger protectionist measures that have been universally criticised. That is real. That is demonstrable. The US suspicions about Huawei never seem to get further than that: suspicion. It is very suspicious that for all its 'fears', nothing concrete has been put on the table.
Here is a simple idea to chew on. If anything nasty about Huawei was ever demonstrated to be true, it would be their end - and forever. Do you think many of those over 170 countries would continue to do business with them in that scenario? So, the US (or anyone else) could kill Huawei and dramatically set back Chinese influence in communications by simply putting something solid on the table. Now you can also chew on why it hasn't actually done that? Could it be that the bag is simply empty?
Meanwhile, we all already know about different attempts by US agencies to do exactly what the US government is complaining about to foreign hardware while demanding that US communications companies participate in aiding it in getting access to private communications of its own citizens.
I'm sorry, but as things stand today, we basically have a group of old men with political clout, who have convinced themselves that Huawei is up to no good. They can't handle the thought of being topped technologically by a Chinese company and simply didn't realise the importance of communications in modern life. Times have changed.
You are free to share that view but remember, as of today, over 170 countries (governments and private companies) do NOT share that view.
And lastly, something Tim Cook will be fully aware of if protectionist measures escalate:
"The list of primary targets include U.S. exports to China of airplanes by Boeing Co., Apple Inc. products and soybean, says Michael Every, head of financial market research at Rabobank Group in Hong Kong".
You know, normally I wouldn’t waste my time on the likes of someone such as yourself, but given that you seem to be going to great lengths to twist the facts around to support your supposition, not just in response to me, but to everyone else here who has stood up to you to prove you wrong, I feel it necessary to discredit EVERYTHING you just spewed…
1. Cisco withdrew its complaint because it wasn't going to go anywhere. The infringement was due to a third party, NOT Huawei.
The infringement was dropped by Cisco because it wanted to avoid a lengthy, drawn-out legal battle with a Chinese nationalist corporation with the backing of the PRC Government, who is known for favouring local companies and shielding them from foreign IP prosecutions, or often ruling in favour of their local company. Despite finding copied-and-pasted source code stolen by Huawei, this wasn’t going to assure a victory for Cisco, but doesn’t negate the fact this was in fact STOLEN IP by Huawei, and forced Huawei to stop the sale and distribution of the offending products after a third-party audit proved this.
And you obviously have reading comprehension issues, or are marvellous at twisting reality, as I quote The Register:
“The completion of the lawsuit comes after a third party review of Huawei's products, and after Huawei discontinued the sale of products at issue in the suit. Huawei has agreed to change its command line interface, user manuals, help screens and portions of its source code to address Cisco's concerns. Cisco agreed to suspend its patent infringement lawsuit when the third party review got underway so the settlement of the lawsuit comes as no great surprise.”
In plain English, "a" third-party organization CONDUCTED the review of Huawei products and found the stolen source code, NOT a third party was responsible for the stolen source code!
2. The G Data report. Did you read it? How could you have missed this:
"Since the discovery of pre-installed malware on a smartphone in spring 2014, G DATA security experts have found more and more models on which the presence of malware in the firmware can be proven. But where does the malware come from and who is installing it? The G DATA security experts are certain that the manufacturers are not the perpetrators in the majority of cases. Renowned companies will not risk their reputation by distributing malware in the firmware."
Or other parts of the report that clearly point out the 'middlemen' are to blame.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Huawei has very close ties to the PRC Government, and that other reports have stated the sophistication of the identified malware leads them to believe it was developed by state actors, and with known widespread spying being conducted by the PRC on their citizens, and corporate espionage abroad, it is a reasonable assumption to conclude it was injected by agents of the PRC.
And I’m sorry, but Huawei is NOT renowned on the world stage, far from it. It has popularity in China and certain other Asiatic countries, but it is by no means RENOWNED as you constantly love to put them on a pedestal. They are known for making knock-off devices, both in appearance and operation, as evidenced by their blatant copy-and-paste code stealing tactics from Cisco in years past, and their love of copying both Apple and Samsung phone and tablet designs; look at their website and product lineups for proof of this.
So you are linking to an article that links to a report using these words (yes, they are your words) while knowing they are false:
"Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products"
Let me repeat that. You make a claim, link to an article which in turn links to the source of the claim but the content of the linked report conflicts directly with your claim.
My statement is 100% is valid, and your assertion it is not is simply splitting hairs in an attempt to make it seem like it isn’t. Even if the party responsible is a middleman, at the end of the day, their products had malware / spyware bundled into them, destined for consumers. The claim is valid, the installations of malware / spyware are factual, get over it!
3. You say: "Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get."
Just a few months ago Apple didn't either and even today it is only on one phone. Have you even considered why the iPhone X solution exists? It's a biometric. An alternative to TouchID. The Honor solution goes beyond that but while consolidated biometrics exist there is no rush. 'likely stolen'? So you don't even have a crumb of real information to support what you say. 'Constant knock offs'? Why not back that up with something. Have you considered just one of the reasons why Honor demoed their solution in the first place? To demonstrate that their solution wasn't in fact a ''knock off" as some like to claim, but an almost complete solution for a future phone. Revealing it when they did proved it was something they had been working on for a while and the logical extension of prior face recognition efforts that actually shipped and are shipping on phones.
Apple has been working on Face ID for years, as per their own releases on the technology. So far nothing that Huawei, nor any other OEM for that matter, has demonstrated that “goes beyond” Apple’s implementation of facial recognition biometrics, as Apple’s implementation even improves upon the accuracy and sophistication introduced by Microsoft with the Windows Hello system some time ago. Huawei’s “demonstration” of a prototype technology was meant to show “We have it first”, when in fact, they didn’t have anything other than a demonstration model and nothing firmly completed and ready for production before the launch of the iPhone X, where the X was production-ready, and launched in mass quantities, and re-defined the aspects and security of facial recognition technologies.
Allow me to quote a passage from the USCBC (US-China Business Council) website in the matter of IP issues in China:
“China’s IP laws and regulations increasingly reflect international standards, and China has indeed made steady efforts to better protect and enforce IP rights. However, challenges remain, including lingering issues with China’s IP legal framework in areas such as trade secrets, uneven enforcement, and significant procedural barriers that frustrate company efforts to protect IP in China. At the same time, counterfeiters and infringers in China are increasingly sophisticated. They often exploit procedural loopholes, proactively seek to invalidate legitimate patents and trademarks, deploy advanced techniques such as reverse engineering, and find new ways to infiltrate legitimate distribution networks and build their own parallel networks.”
Because Chinese manufacturers often violate their manufacturing IP firewall protections with western partners, they glean previews at foreign companies efforts in developing new technologies, based on as-yet unreleased products, giving them the ability to reverse engineer them in an attempt to get to market first and claim IP rights over the technology instead. How many times have Chinese companies products knockoffs of iPhone’s before their actual release date and then claimed Apple actually infringed THEIR designs?
I have spent time in mainland China, and know first-hand this is how things operate there, and if you think otherwise, your naivety is showing!
4. Quality. 'piss poor quality'? Late last year Huawei invited the press to visit some of its testing facilities. There were lots of articles about how far Huawei goes to test its phones. The first Google result:
I’ve also personally handled Huawei devices at my tech bench, and they feel cheap, are VERY flimsy with excessive creak to most of them, and like the video illustrates, are VERY easy to damage. This, to me, equates to piss-poor quality. And then of course there is also the matter of them skinning their Android OS to mimic iOS, which is again adding to the piss-poor rating from me, and further illustrates their lack of creative vision and instead standing on the backs of western companies to steal IP from.
Oh, and the P20, talk about shameless iPhone X knock-off, both hardware and software! Their EMUI looks like Android and iOS had a bastard child!
You obviously missed the fact that Huawei has the world's first TüV Rheinland certified battery. A battery that is technically one of the best on the market. You clearly missed the articles on extreme cold photography and how well the Mate 10 holds up and you obviously missed the video of a Mate 10 receiving a call while trapped in the ice of a frozen lake.
If you’re trapped in a frozen lake, then you’ve got bigger issues to worry about than your phone functioning!
"They are advertising a full day’s use from a 20-minute charge on their website right now. Naturally, this comes with some caveats and the company is pulling this data from their lab tests under very specific conditions."
So whilst they are certified, the claims are apparently from lab tests under "very specific conditions". I also do not see any mention of longevity or maximum cycle count of the cells when constantly charged in this high-voltage manner. Just by electrical and chemical physics alone, I'm willing to bet they won't last long! This to me smells like an MPG rating on a vehicle under "ideal conditions" but never delivers in real life.
5. Android Biometric Security. Ah, you now switch focus to Android. Wasn't your rant aimed at Huawei? Or was it that your claim could fall flat on its face if you aimed it at Huawei? At every presentation of a new Huawei flagship, this point is specifically touched on. Huawei supports industry wide security protocols and has its own secure, on chip area for biometric storage.
Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
Your rant presents distorted information. It reads like a text from someone who is acting on suspicion but unable present anything tangible to support it. You had to go back to 2003/4 to find something and even then had to twist things.
There was an interesting article on Huawei a few days ago that tries to detail the thinking I believe you have. You will probably agree with parts of it:
Bloomberg has been anti-Apple and pro-China for some time now, and most of the “facts” presented by that rag, whether it be financial insights (or rather the exact opposite), tech reviews or their analyst’s reports, are almost all BS and totally disproven over time. Nice of you to use them as a talking point, again showing your love for anything related to Huawei and China / Android, and anything that shines a bad light on Apple.
My rant didn’t present ANY distorted information, and I backed it up with cross-referenced proven materials and records of fact. I went back to 2003/4 to showcase just how long Huawei has been leeching off the backs of western companies to build their “rise to power”, and their predilection to steal IP from others to advance their own goals, instead of investing in proper R&D to come up with their own designs and technologies, something the Chinese have almost never done.
"Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."
Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.
As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.
As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.
This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
Why anyone out side of China even talks or supports Huawei ? They work with Chinese government,proved major security issues and copy, intellectual property steal,espionage issues. AT&T and Verizon dropped from offering and any 5G collaboration..
- Huawei says they don't. - Huawei works with over 170 countries worldwide. - AT&T spent more than a year working with Huawei to tune it's phones to its networks. - AT&T signed an agreement to carry Huawei phones. - AT&T works with Huawei in Mexico.
None of the above would have happened if their was any reason to suspect Huawei's activities.
Now a reality check. While Huawei became a major player in 4G, it began investing heavily in 5G and will be a major force. The US government doesn't like that idea but did nothing to avoid the current situation. Really nothing. Now it's waking up to reality and sees the only 'solution' as building its own 5G Network. A little late for that don't you think?
So, on top of a de facto ban on major carriers using Huawei communications equipment, the government is taking protectionist measures and trying to stop Huawei challenging Apple on its home turf. All part of larger protectionist measures that have been universally criticised. That is real. That is demonstrable. The US suspicions about Huawei never seem to get further than that: suspicion. It is very suspicious that for all its 'fears', nothing concrete has been put on the table.
Here is a simple idea to chew on. If anything nasty about Huawei was ever demonstrated to be true, it would be their end - and forever. Do you think many of those over 170 countries would continue to do business with them in that scenario? So, the US (or anyone else) could kill Huawei and dramatically set back Chinese influence in communications by simply putting something solid on the table. Now you can also chew on why it hasn't actually done that? Could it be that the bag is simply empty?
Meanwhile, we all already know about different attempts by US agencies to do exactly what the US government is complaining about to foreign hardware while demanding that US communications companies participate in aiding it in getting access to private communications of its own citizens.
I'm sorry, but as things stand today, we basically have a group of old men with political clout, who have convinced themselves that Huawei is up to no good. They can't handle the thought of being topped technologically by a Chinese company and simply didn't realise the importance of communications in modern life. Times have changed.
You are free to share that view but remember, as of today, over 170 countries (governments and private companies) do NOT share that view.
And lastly, something Tim Cook will be fully aware of if protectionist measures escalate:
"The list of primary targets include U.S. exports to China of airplanes by Boeing Co., Apple Inc. products and soybean, says Michael Every, head of financial market research at Rabobank Group in Hong Kong".
You know, normally I wouldn’t waste my time on the likes of someone such as yourself, but given that you seem to be going to great lengths to twist the facts around to support your supposition, not just in response to me, but to everyone else here who has stood up to you to prove you wrong, I feel it necessary to discredit EVERYTHING you just spewed…
1. Cisco withdrew its complaint because it wasn't going to go anywhere. The infringement was due to a third party, NOT Huawei.
The infringement was dropped by Cisco because it wanted to avoid a lengthy, drawn-out legal battle with a Chinese nationalist corporation with the backing of the PRC Government, who is known for favouring local companies and shielding them from foreign IP prosecutions, or often ruling in favour of their local company. Despite finding copied-and-pasted source code stolen by Huawei, this wasn’t going to assure a victory for Cisco, but doesn’t negate the fact this was in fact STOLEN IP by Huawei, and forced Huawei to stop the sale and distribution of the offending products after a third-party audit proved this.
And you obviously have reading comprehension issues, or are marvellous at twisting reality, as I quote The Register:
“The completion of the lawsuit comes after a third party review of Huawei's products, and after Huawei discontinued the sale of products at issue in the suit. Huawei has agreed to change its command line interface, user manuals, help screens and portions of its source code to address Cisco's concerns. Cisco agreed to suspend its patent infringement lawsuit when the third party review got underway so the settlement of the lawsuit comes as no great surprise.”
In plain English, "a" third-party organization CONDUCTED the review of Huawei products and found the stolen source code, NOT a third party was responsible for the stolen source code!
2. The G Data report. Did you read it? How could you have missed this:
"Since the discovery of pre-installed malware on a smartphone in spring 2014, G DATA security experts have found more and more models on which the presence of malware in the firmware can be proven. But where does the malware come from and who is installing it? The G DATA security experts are certain that the manufacturers are not the perpetrators in the majority of cases. Renowned companies will not risk their reputation by distributing malware in the firmware."
Or other parts of the report that clearly point out the 'middlemen' are to blame.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Huawei has very close ties to the PRC Government, and that other reports have stated the sophistication of the identified malware leads them to believe it was developed by state actors, and with known widespread spying being conducted by the PRC on their citizens, and corporate espionage abroad, it is a reasonable assumption to conclude it was injected by agents of the PRC.
And I’m sorry, but Huawei is NOT renowned on the world stage, far from it. It has popularity in China and certain other Asiatic countries, but it is by no means RENOWNED as you constantly love to put them on a pedestal. They are known for making knock-off devices, both in appearance and operation, as evidenced by their blatant copy-and-paste code stealing tactics from Cisco in years past, and their love of copying both Apple and Samsung phone and tablet designs; look at their website and product lineups for proof of this.
So you are linking to an article that links to a report using these words (yes, they are your words) while knowing they are false:
"Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products"
Let me repeat that. You make a claim, link to an article which in turn links to the source of the claim but the content of the linked report conflicts directly with your claim.
My statement is 100% is valid, and your assertion it is not is simply splitting hairs in an attempt to make it seem like it isn’t. Even if the party responsible is a middleman, at the end of the day, their products had malware / spyware bundled into them, destined for consumers. The claim is valid, the installations of malware / spyware are factual, get over it!
3. You say: "Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get."
Just a few months ago Apple didn't either and even today it is only on one phone. Have you even considered why the iPhone X solution exists? It's a biometric. An alternative to TouchID. The Honor solution goes beyond that but while consolidated biometrics exist there is no rush. 'likely stolen'? So you don't even have a crumb of real information to support what you say. 'Constant knock offs'? Why not back that up with something. Have you considered just one of the reasons why Honor demoed their solution in the first place? To demonstrate that their solution wasn't in fact a ''knock off" as some like to claim, but an almost complete solution for a future phone. Revealing it when they did proved it was something they had been working on for a while and the logical extension of prior face recognition efforts that actually shipped and are shipping on phones.
Apple has been working on Face ID for years, as per their own releases on the technology. So far nothing that Huawei, nor any other OEM for that matter, has demonstrated that “goes beyond” Apple’s implementation of facial recognition biometrics, as Apple’s implementation even improves upon the accuracy and sophistication introduced by Microsoft with the Windows Hello system some time ago. Huawei’s “demonstration” of a prototype technology was meant to show “We have it first”, when in fact, they didn’t have anything other than a demonstration model and nothing firmly completed and ready for production before the launch of the iPhone X, where the X was production-ready, and launched in mass quantities, and re-defined the aspects and security of facial recognition technologies.
Allow me to quote a passage from the USCBC (US-China Business Council) website in the matter of IP issues in China:
“China’s IP laws and regulations increasingly reflect international standards, and China has indeed made steady efforts to better protect and enforce IP rights. However, challenges remain, including lingering issues with China’s IP legal framework in areas such as trade secrets, uneven enforcement, and significant procedural barriers that frustrate company efforts to protect IP in China. At the same time, counterfeiters and infringers in China are increasingly sophisticated. They often exploit procedural loopholes, proactively seek to invalidate legitimate patents and trademarks, deploy advanced techniques such as reverse engineering, and find new ways to infiltrate legitimate distribution networks and build their own parallel networks.”
Because Chinese manufacturers often violate their manufacturing IP firewall protections with western partners, they glean previews at foreign companies efforts in developing new technologies, based on as-yet unreleased products, giving them the ability to reverse engineer them in an attempt to get to market first and claim IP rights over the technology instead. How many times have Chinese companies products knockoffs of iPhone’s before their actual release date and then claimed Apple actually infringed THEIR designs?
I have spent time in mainland China, and know first-hand this is how things operate there, and if you think otherwise, your naivety is showing!
4. Quality. 'piss poor quality'? Late last year Huawei invited the press to visit some of its testing facilities. There were lots of articles about how far Huawei goes to test its phones. The first Google result:
I’ve also personally handled Huawei devices at my tech bench, and they feel cheap, are VERY flimsy with excessive creak to most of them, and like the video illustrates, are VERY easy to damage. This, to me, equates to piss-poor quality. And then of course there is also the matter of them skinning their Android OS to mimic iOS, which is again adding to the piss-poor rating from me, and further illustrates their lack of creative vision and instead standing on the backs of western companies to steal IP from.
Oh, and the P20, talk about shameless iPhone X knock-off, both hardware and software! Their EMUI looks like Android and iOS had a bastard child!
You obviously missed the fact that Huawei has the world's first TüV Rheinland certified battery. A battery that is technically one of the best on the market. You clearly missed the articles on extreme cold photography and how well the Mate 10 holds up and you obviously missed the video of a Mate 10 receiving a call while trapped in the ice of a frozen lake.
If you’re trapped in a frozen lake, then you’ve got bigger issues to worry about than your phone functioning!
"They are advertising a full day’s use from a 20-minute charge on their website right now. Naturally, this comes with some caveats and the company is pulling this data from their lab tests under very specific conditions."
So whilst they are certified, the claims are apparently from lab tests under "very specific conditions". I also do not see any mention of longevity or maximum cycle count of the cells when constantly charged in this high-voltage manner. Just by electrical and chemical physics alone, I'm willing to bet they won't last long! This to me smells like an MPG rating on a vehicle under "ideal conditions" but never delivers in real life.
5. Android Biometric Security. Ah, you now switch focus to Android. Wasn't your rant aimed at Huawei? Or was it that your claim could fall flat on its face if you aimed it at Huawei? At every presentation of a new Huawei flagship, this point is specifically touched on. Huawei supports industry wide security protocols and has its own secure, on chip area for biometric storage.
Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
Your rant presents distorted information. It reads like a text from someone who is acting on suspicion but unable present anything tangible to support it. You had to go back to 2003/4 to find something and even then had to twist things.
There was an interesting article on Huawei a few days ago that tries to detail the thinking I believe you have. You will probably agree with parts of it:
Bloomberg has been anti-Apple and pro-China for some time now, and most of the “facts” presented by that rag, whether it be financial insights (or rather the exact opposite), tech reviews or their analyst’s reports, are almost all BS and totally disproven over time. Nice of you to use them as a talking point, again showing your love for anything related to Huawei and China / Android, and anything that shines a bad light on Apple.
My rant didn’t present ANY distorted information, and I backed it up with cross-referenced proven materials and records of fact. I went back to 2003/4 to showcase just how long Huawei has been leeching off the backs of western companies to build their “rise to power”, and their predilection to steal IP from others to advance their own goals, instead of investing in proper R&D to come up with their own designs and technologies, something the Chinese have almost never done.
Now, do us all a favour, and go away.
Of all the videos out there you chose that one? So, you think that's piss poor? Ok.
I think you won't find many takers for that opinion. If I were considering that phone and came across that video, it would sway my opinion to buy it, not push me in the other direction! But anyway, as you went to that channel, let's stay there and look at the 'piss poor' Mate 10! Great on the outside. Great on the inside!
But lets not stop at the high end. Let's drop down to the sub 200 dollar band. That's where you would expect quality to suffer:
Your line not of poor but ''piss poor" quality is taking on more water than the Titanic!
You are moving down a dead end when trying to place the poor quality label on Huawei. It's one of the reasons they have become so strong as a brand over the last few years. Yes, they sometimes have a dud (just like everyone) but you simply can't slam your 'piss poor' claim on them.
Nothing constructive to say on the ice front I see. If we are to believe the story, it was a lost phone detected by a passerby when an incoming call was made. But stories aside, it was definitely working in the ice and that was the point (which you just ignored).
Nothing relevant on the battery side either. Do you know any company that doesn't make claims based on lab settings? It's an obligation so you can support your claims! You went looking for stress test videos but didn't bother to back up your claims.
You are willing to bet the batteries won't last very long but provide nothing to support your argument while Huawei has constantly delivered with battery tech. Both on a chemical and charging level.
Some information you might find useful:
Heat and safety:
Chemistry and lifespan:
On biometric security you said:
"Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
It would be interesting to see the links to that information. I'm of the opinion that no biometric is totally unhackable or able to be bypassed. The question is the lengths you need to go to to get into the phone and the amount it could cost you. By the way, the Honor depth sensing tech goes beyond biometrics and your counter point had little or nothing to do with what I was pointing out.
Forget Bloomberg, look at the names and the quotes provided! Are you saying they made it up?
As for Cisco, I suggest you stick to the facts. If they didn't want to get drawn into a 'long drawn out court process' why bring a case in the first place? They settled and shared the costs putting themselves into a situation that prevented them from pursuing the case at a later date. Huawei said the code in question originated at a third party. Some articles claim it was due to a couple of rogue employees. Take your pick, or make up your own line. The fact of the matter is that Huawei is everywhere, has more than 170,000 employees, invests huge amounts into R&D and has a huge patent portfolio. You had to go back to 2003 to dig something out. Is there really so little for you to get your teeth into that you had to go back so far?
Now your argument is sinking faster than the Titanic!
Huawei has constantly stated it has no ties to the Chinese government. At least no ties beyond which is considered normal. If that isn't the case, let's at least put something on the table that questions what they say.
Yes, China has had big problems with IP issues. But Huawei is not China, right? That doesn't make Huawei angels, though. I don't defend Huawei. I correct some (not all!) of the misinformation that some people here incessantly present as fact because I know both companies very well. Everybody gets drawn into IP/patent brawls at some point, Apple included. I rarely speak of Samsung because I have rarely owned anything from them.
I gave a link to an article that said AT&T was falling over itself to help the US intelligence services. You didn't like it because you feel that Bloomberg is anti-American as if that was relevant (the point was the US complaining about government entanglement with a communications company). Forget Bloomberg. That information came out as part of the Snowden leaks. Do you think a different news source would tell things differently?
I am not cherry picking or being vague. I have given you the links that counter your claims.
You can persist if you wish but this is way off topic now. Open a new thread and continue there.
"Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."
Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.
As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.
As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.
This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
Why anyone out side of China even talks or supports Huawei ? They work with Chinese government,proved major security issues and copy, intellectual property steal,espionage issues. AT&T and Verizon dropped from offering and any 5G collaboration..
- Huawei says they don't. - Huawei works with over 170 countries worldwide. - AT&T spent more than a year working with Huawei to tune it's phones to its networks. - AT&T signed an agreement to carry Huawei phones. - AT&T works with Huawei in Mexico.
None of the above would have happened if their was any reason to suspect Huawei's activities.
Now a reality check. While Huawei became a major player in 4G, it began investing heavily in 5G and will be a major force. The US government doesn't like that idea but did nothing to avoid the current situation. Really nothing. Now it's waking up to reality and sees the only 'solution' as building its own 5G Network. A little late for that don't you think?
So, on top of a de facto ban on major carriers using Huawei communications equipment, the government is taking protectionist measures and trying to stop Huawei challenging Apple on its home turf. All part of larger protectionist measures that have been universally criticised. That is real. That is demonstrable. The US suspicions about Huawei never seem to get further than that: suspicion. It is very suspicious that for all its 'fears', nothing concrete has been put on the table.
Here is a simple idea to chew on. If anything nasty about Huawei was ever demonstrated to be true, it would be their end - and forever. Do you think many of those over 170 countries would continue to do business with them in that scenario? So, the US (or anyone else) could kill Huawei and dramatically set back Chinese influence in communications by simply putting something solid on the table. Now you can also chew on why it hasn't actually done that? Could it be that the bag is simply empty?
Meanwhile, we all already know about different attempts by US agencies to do exactly what the US government is complaining about to foreign hardware while demanding that US communications companies participate in aiding it in getting access to private communications of its own citizens.
I'm sorry, but as things stand today, we basically have a group of old men with political clout, who have convinced themselves that Huawei is up to no good. They can't handle the thought of being topped technologically by a Chinese company and simply didn't realise the importance of communications in modern life. Times have changed.
You are free to share that view but remember, as of today, over 170 countries (governments and private companies) do NOT share that view.
And lastly, something Tim Cook will be fully aware of if protectionist measures escalate:
"The list of primary targets include U.S. exports to China of airplanes by Boeing Co., Apple Inc. products and soybean, says Michael Every, head of financial market research at Rabobank Group in Hong Kong".
Nice summary and quite neutral. China has made renewed promises recently but, as you imply, we'll have to see if anything comes of it. That of course has little to do with Huawei.
Some people still use the terms Huawei and the Chinese government interchangeably. It's important to see the differences and not go over the top.
There is a simple truth. For technology, China has become a superpower. The numbers are there. The Chinese have invested heavily in R&D while others have invested less. They are now creating technology as well as manufacturing it. The rest of the world will have to adapt. The EU has plans to produce it's own processors etc. It has stated it doesn't want to depend on foreign technology for security reasons.
As a whole, one of the best responses is to simply compete better. No one likes being on the back foot but these things are on long term cycles. China is booming now but that won't last forever.
You know, normally I wouldn’t waste my time on the likes of someone such as yourself, but given that you seem to be going to great lengths to twist the facts around to support your supposition, not just in response to me, but to everyone else here who has stood up to you to prove you wrong, I feel it necessary to discredit EVERYTHING you just spewed…
1. Cisco withdrew its complaint because it wasn't going to go anywhere. The infringement was due to a third party, NOT Huawei.
The infringement was dropped by Cisco because it wanted to avoid a lengthy, drawn-out legal battle with a Chinese nationalist corporation with the backing of the PRC Government, who is known for favouring local companies and shielding them from foreign IP prosecutions, or often ruling in favour of their local company. Despite finding copied-and-pasted source code stolen by Huawei, this wasn’t going to assure a victory for Cisco, but doesn’t negate the fact this was in fact STOLEN IP by Huawei, and forced Huawei to stop the sale and distribution of the offending products after a third-party audit proved this.
And you obviously have reading comprehension issues, or are marvellous at twisting reality, as I quote The Register:
“The completion of the lawsuit comes after a third party review of Huawei's products, and after Huawei discontinued the sale of products at issue in the suit. Huawei has agreed to change its command line interface, user manuals, help screens and portions of its source code to address Cisco's concerns. Cisco agreed to suspend its patent infringement lawsuit when the third party review got underway so the settlement of the lawsuit comes as no great surprise.”
In plain English, "a" third-party organization CONDUCTED the review of Huawei products and found the stolen source code, NOT a third party was responsible for the stolen source code!
2. The G Data report. Did you read it? How could you have missed this:
"Since the discovery of pre-installed malware on a smartphone in spring 2014, G DATA security experts have found more and more models on which the presence of malware in the firmware can be proven. But where does the malware come from and who is installing it? The G DATA security experts are certain that the manufacturers are not the perpetrators in the majority of cases. Renowned companies will not risk their reputation by distributing malware in the firmware."
Or other parts of the report that clearly point out the 'middlemen' are to blame.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Huawei has very close ties to the PRC Government, and that other reports have stated the sophistication of the identified malware leads them to believe it was developed by state actors, and with known widespread spying being conducted by the PRC on their citizens, and corporate espionage abroad, it is a reasonable assumption to conclude it was injected by agents of the PRC.
And I’m sorry, but Huawei is NOT renowned on the world stage, far from it. It has popularity in China and certain other Asiatic countries, but it is by no means RENOWNED as you constantly love to put them on a pedestal. They are known for making knock-off devices, both in appearance and operation, as evidenced by their blatant copy-and-paste code stealing tactics from Cisco in years past, and their love of copying both Apple and Samsung phone and tablet designs; look at their website and product lineups for proof of this.
So you are linking to an article that links to a report using these words (yes, they are your words) while knowing they are false:
"Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products"
Let me repeat that. You make a claim, link to an article which in turn links to the source of the claim but the content of the linked report conflicts directly with your claim.
My statement is 100% is valid, and your assertion it is not is simply splitting hairs in an attempt to make it seem like it isn’t. Even if the party responsible is a middleman, at the end of the day, their products had malware / spyware bundled into them, destined for consumers. The claim is valid, the installations of malware / spyware are factual, get over it!
3. You say: "Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get."
Just a few months ago Apple didn't either and even today it is only on one phone. Have you even considered why the iPhone X solution exists? It's a biometric. An alternative to TouchID. The Honor solution goes beyond that but while consolidated biometrics exist there is no rush. 'likely stolen'? So you don't even have a crumb of real information to support what you say. 'Constant knock offs'? Why not back that up with something. Have you considered just one of the reasons why Honor demoed their solution in the first place? To demonstrate that their solution wasn't in fact a ''knock off" as some like to claim, but an almost complete solution for a future phone. Revealing it when they did proved it was something they had been working on for a while and the logical extension of prior face recognition efforts that actually shipped and are shipping on phones.
Apple has been working on Face ID for years, as per their own releases on the technology. So far nothing that Huawei, nor any other OEM for that matter, has demonstrated that “goes beyond” Apple’s implementation of facial recognition biometrics, as Apple’s implementation even improves upon the accuracy and sophistication introduced by Microsoft with the Windows Hello system some time ago. Huawei’s “demonstration” of a prototype technology was meant to show “We have it first”, when in fact, they didn’t have anything other than a demonstration model and nothing firmly completed and ready for production before the launch of the iPhone X, where the X was production-ready, and launched in mass quantities, and re-defined the aspects and security of facial recognition technologies.
Allow me to quote a passage from the USCBC (US-China Business Council) website in the matter of IP issues in China:
“China’s IP laws and regulations increasingly reflect international standards, and China has indeed made steady efforts to better protect and enforce IP rights. However, challenges remain, including lingering issues with China’s IP legal framework in areas such as trade secrets, uneven enforcement, and significant procedural barriers that frustrate company efforts to protect IP in China. At the same time, counterfeiters and infringers in China are increasingly sophisticated. They often exploit procedural loopholes, proactively seek to invalidate legitimate patents and trademarks, deploy advanced techniques such as reverse engineering, and find new ways to infiltrate legitimate distribution networks and build their own parallel networks.”
Because Chinese manufacturers often violate their manufacturing IP firewall protections with western partners, they glean previews at foreign companies efforts in developing new technologies, based on as-yet unreleased products, giving them the ability to reverse engineer them in an attempt to get to market first and claim IP rights over the technology instead. How many times have Chinese companies products knockoffs of iPhone’s before their actual release date and then claimed Apple actually infringed THEIR designs?
I have spent time in mainland China, and know first-hand this is how things operate there, and if you think otherwise, your naivety is showing!
4. Quality. 'piss poor quality'? Late last year Huawei invited the press to visit some of its testing facilities. There were lots of articles about how far Huawei goes to test its phones. The first Google result:
I’ve also personally handled Huawei devices at my tech bench, and they feel cheap, are VERY flimsy with excessive creak to most of them, and like the video illustrates, are VERY easy to damage. This, to me, equates to piss-poor quality. And then of course there is also the matter of them skinning their Android OS to mimic iOS, which is again adding to the piss-poor rating from me, and further illustrates their lack of creative vision and instead standing on the backs of western companies to steal IP from.
Oh, and the P20, talk about shameless iPhone X knock-off, both hardware and software! Their EMUI looks like Android and iOS had a bastard child!
You obviously missed the fact that Huawei has the world's first TüV Rheinland certified battery. A battery that is technically one of the best on the market. You clearly missed the articles on extreme cold photography and how well the Mate 10 holds up and you obviously missed the video of a Mate 10 receiving a call while trapped in the ice of a frozen lake.
If you’re trapped in a frozen lake, then you’ve got bigger issues to worry about than your phone functioning!
"They are advertising a full day’s use from a 20-minute charge on their website right now. Naturally, this comes with some caveats and the company is pulling this data from their lab tests under very specific conditions."
So whilst they are certified, the claims are apparently from lab tests under "very specific conditions". I also do not see any mention of longevity or maximum cycle count of the cells when constantly charged in this high-voltage manner. Just by electrical and chemical physics alone, I'm willing to bet they won't last long! This to me smells like an MPG rating on a vehicle under "ideal conditions" but never delivers in real life.
5. Android Biometric Security. Ah, you now switch focus to Android. Wasn't your rant aimed at Huawei? Or was it that your claim could fall flat on its face if you aimed it at Huawei? At every presentation of a new Huawei flagship, this point is specifically touched on. Huawei supports industry wide security protocols and has its own secure, on chip area for biometric storage.
Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
Your rant presents distorted information. It reads like a text from someone who is acting on suspicion but unable present anything tangible to support it. You had to go back to 2003/4 to find something and even then had to twist things.
There was an interesting article on Huawei a few days ago that tries to detail the thinking I believe you have. You will probably agree with parts of it:
Bloomberg has been anti-Apple and pro-China for some time now, and most of the “facts” presented by that rag, whether it be financial insights (or rather the exact opposite), tech reviews or their analyst’s reports, are almost all BS and totally disproven over time. Nice of you to use them as a talking point, again showing your love for anything related to Huawei and China / Android, and anything that shines a bad light on Apple.
My rant didn’t present ANY distorted information, and I backed it up with cross-referenced proven materials and records of fact. I went back to 2003/4 to showcase just how long Huawei has been leeching off the backs of western companies to build their “rise to power”, and their predilection to steal IP from others to advance their own goals, instead of investing in proper R&D to come up with their own designs and technologies, something the Chinese have almost never done.
Now, do us all a favour, and go away.
Of all the videos out there you chose that one? So, you think that's piss poor? Ok.
I think you won't find many takers for that opinion. If I were considering that phone and came across that video, it would sway my opinion to buy it, not push me in the other direction! But anyway, as you went to that channel, let's stay there and look at the 'piss poor' Mate 10! Great on the outside. Great on the inside!
But lets not stop at the high end. Let's drop down to the sub 200 dollar band. That's where you would expect quality to suffer:
Your line not of poor but ''piss poor" quality is taking on more water than the Titanic!
You are moving down a dead end when trying to place the poor quality label on Huawei. It's one of the reasons they have become so strong as a brand over the last few years. Yes, they sometimes have a dud (just like everyone) but you simply can't slam your 'piss poor' claim on them.
Nothing constructive to say on the ice front I see. If we are to believe the story, it was a lost phone detected by a passerby when an incoming call was made. But stories aside, it was definitely working in the ice and that was the point (which you just ignored).
Nothing relevant on the battery side either. Do you know any company that doesn't make claims based on lab settings? It's an obligation so you can support your claims! You went looking for stress test videos but didn't bother to back up your claims.
You are willing to bet the batteries won't last very long but provide nothing to support your argument while Huawei has constantly delivered with battery tech. Both on a chemical and charging level.
Some information you might find useful:
Heat and safety:
Chemistry and lifespan:
On biometric security you said:
"Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
It would be interesting to see the links to that information. I'm of the opinion that no biometric is totally unhackable or able to be bypassed. The question is the lengths you need to go to to get into the phone and the amount it could cost you. By the way, the Honor depth sensing tech goes beyond biometrics and your counter point had little or nothing to do with what I was pointing out.
Forget Bloomberg, look at the names and the quotes provided! Are you saying they made it up?
As for Cisco, I suggest you stick to the facts. If they didn't want to get drawn into a 'long drawn out court process' why bring a case in the first place? They settled and shared the costs putting themselves into a situation that prevented them from pursuing the case at a later date. Huawei said the code in question originated at a third party. Some articles claim it was due to a couple of rogue employees. Take your pick, or make up your own line. The fact of the matter is that Huawei is everywhere, has more than 170,000 employees, invests huge amounts into R&D and has a huge patent portfolio. You had to go back to 2003 to dig something out. Is there really so little for you to get your teeth into that you had to go back so far?
Now your argument is sinking faster than the Titanic!
Huawei has constantly stated it has no ties to the Chinese government. At least no ties beyond which is considered normal. If that isn't the case, let's at least put something on the table that questions what they say.
Yes, China has had big problems with IP issues. But Huawei is not China, right? That doesn't make Huawei angels, though. I don't defend Huawei. I correct some (not all!) of the misinformation that some people here incessantly present as fact because I know both companies very well. Everybody gets drawn into IP/patent brawls at some point, Apple included. I rarely speak of Samsung because I have rarely owned anything from them.
I gave a link to an article that said AT&T was falling over itself to help the US intelligence services. You didn't like it because you feel that Bloomberg is anti-American as if that was relevant (the point was the US complaining about government entanglement with a communications company). Forget Bloomberg. That information came out as part of the Snowden leaks. Do you think a different news source would tell things differently?
I am not cherry picking or being vague. I have given you the links that counter your claims.
You can persist if you wish but this is way off topic now. Open a new thread and continue there.
Wow, you really don’t know when to quit, do you? Your behaviour now is evident as being a-typical of someone on the payroll for Huawei, not even Samsung lovers go out of their way this much to distort reality and conjure up pro-Huawei PR pieces to use as “evidence” of your position. I find your comment about the P9 video I posted as making you sway towards actually purchasing that POS rather than looking at another product instead. That statement is VERY telling of your false conjecture.
As I stated in my last response, I have rebutted ALL your BS claims about Huawei superiority and engineering development prowess, and will not be wasting any more of my time with the likes of a troll like you.
I’ve presented vast amounts of information to completely debunk all your BS pro-Huawei PR, which you conveniently like to twist to your advantage whilst denouncing the significance and relevance of the counter claims against them.
None of my arguments and statements of fact are “sinking faster than the Titanic”, what a laugh! You’ve actually proven quite entertaining in your pitiful support of a pro-Chinese government corporation,which, despite your FUD, is widely known for it’s ties with the PRC Government. I know this not only due to publicized reports of said alliance, but also having spent time in China and having inside information to the fact.
I would LOVE to see DED tear your claims to shreds, as you would prove a worthwhile distraction for him to embarrass.
You know, normally I wouldn’t waste my time on the likes of someone such as yourself, but given that you seem to be going to great lengths to twist the facts around to support your supposition, not just in response to me, but to everyone else here who has stood up to you to prove you wrong, I feel it necessary to discredit EVERYTHING you just spewed…
1. Cisco withdrew its complaint because it wasn't going to go anywhere. The infringement was due to a third party, NOT Huawei.
The infringement was dropped by Cisco because it wanted to avoid a lengthy, drawn-out legal battle with a Chinese nationalist corporation with the backing of the PRC Government, who is known for favouring local companies and shielding them from foreign IP prosecutions, or often ruling in favour of their local company. Despite finding copied-and-pasted source code stolen by Huawei, this wasn’t going to assure a victory for Cisco, but doesn’t negate the fact this was in fact STOLEN IP by Huawei, and forced Huawei to stop the sale and distribution of the offending products after a third-party audit proved this.
And you obviously have reading comprehension issues, or are marvellous at twisting reality, as I quote The Register:
“The completion of the lawsuit comes after a third party review of Huawei's products, and after Huawei discontinued the sale of products at issue in the suit. Huawei has agreed to change its command line interface, user manuals, help screens and portions of its source code to address Cisco's concerns. Cisco agreed to suspend its patent infringement lawsuit when the third party review got underway so the settlement of the lawsuit comes as no great surprise.”
In plain English, "a" third-party organization CONDUCTED the review of Huawei products and found the stolen source code, NOT a third party was responsible for the stolen source code!
2. The G Data report. Did you read it? How could you have missed this:
"Since the discovery of pre-installed malware on a smartphone in spring 2014, G DATA security experts have found more and more models on which the presence of malware in the firmware can be proven. But where does the malware come from and who is installing it? The G DATA security experts are certain that the manufacturers are not the perpetrators in the majority of cases. Renowned companies will not risk their reputation by distributing malware in the firmware."
Or other parts of the report that clearly point out the 'middlemen' are to blame.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Huawei has very close ties to the PRC Government, and that other reports have stated the sophistication of the identified malware leads them to believe it was developed by state actors, and with known widespread spying being conducted by the PRC on their citizens, and corporate espionage abroad, it is a reasonable assumption to conclude it was injected by agents of the PRC.
And I’m sorry, but Huawei is NOT renowned on the world stage, far from it. It has popularity in China and certain other Asiatic countries, but it is by no means RENOWNED as you constantly love to put them on a pedestal. They are known for making knock-off devices, both in appearance and operation, as evidenced by their blatant copy-and-paste code stealing tactics from Cisco in years past, and their love of copying both Apple and Samsung phone and tablet designs; look at their website and product lineups for proof of this.
So you are linking to an article that links to a report using these words (yes, they are your words) while knowing they are false:
"Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products"
Let me repeat that. You make a claim, link to an article which in turn links to the source of the claim but the content of the linked report conflicts directly with your claim.
My statement is 100% is valid, and your assertion it is not is simply splitting hairs in an attempt to make it seem like it isn’t. Even if the party responsible is a middleman, at the end of the day, their products had malware / spyware bundled into them, destined for consumers. The claim is valid, the installations of malware / spyware are factual, get over it!
3. You say: "Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get."
Just a few months ago Apple didn't either and even today it is only on one phone. Have you even considered why the iPhone X solution exists? It's a biometric. An alternative to TouchID. The Honor solution goes beyond that but while consolidated biometrics exist there is no rush. 'likely stolen'? So you don't even have a crumb of real information to support what you say. 'Constant knock offs'? Why not back that up with something. Have you considered just one of the reasons why Honor demoed their solution in the first place? To demonstrate that their solution wasn't in fact a ''knock off" as some like to claim, but an almost complete solution for a future phone. Revealing it when they did proved it was something they had been working on for a while and the logical extension of prior face recognition efforts that actually shipped and are shipping on phones.
Apple has been working on Face ID for years, as per their own releases on the technology. So far nothing that Huawei, nor any other OEM for that matter, has demonstrated that “goes beyond” Apple’s implementation of facial recognition biometrics, as Apple’s implementation even improves upon the accuracy and sophistication introduced by Microsoft with the Windows Hello system some time ago. Huawei’s “demonstration” of a prototype technology was meant to show “We have it first”, when in fact, they didn’t have anything other than a demonstration model and nothing firmly completed and ready for production before the launch of the iPhone X, where the X was production-ready, and launched in mass quantities, and re-defined the aspects and security of facial recognition technologies.
Allow me to quote a passage from the USCBC (US-China Business Council) website in the matter of IP issues in China:
“China’s IP laws and regulations increasingly reflect international standards, and China has indeed made steady efforts to better protect and enforce IP rights. However, challenges remain, including lingering issues with China’s IP legal framework in areas such as trade secrets, uneven enforcement, and significant procedural barriers that frustrate company efforts to protect IP in China. At the same time, counterfeiters and infringers in China are increasingly sophisticated. They often exploit procedural loopholes, proactively seek to invalidate legitimate patents and trademarks, deploy advanced techniques such as reverse engineering, and find new ways to infiltrate legitimate distribution networks and build their own parallel networks.”
Because Chinese manufacturers often violate their manufacturing IP firewall protections with western partners, they glean previews at foreign companies efforts in developing new technologies, based on as-yet unreleased products, giving them the ability to reverse engineer them in an attempt to get to market first and claim IP rights over the technology instead. How many times have Chinese companies products knockoffs of iPhone’s before their actual release date and then claimed Apple actually infringed THEIR designs?
I have spent time in mainland China, and know first-hand this is how things operate there, and if you think otherwise, your naivety is showing!
4. Quality. 'piss poor quality'? Late last year Huawei invited the press to visit some of its testing facilities. There were lots of articles about how far Huawei goes to test its phones. The first Google result:
I’ve also personally handled Huawei devices at my tech bench, and they feel cheap, are VERY flimsy with excessive creak to most of them, and like the video illustrates, are VERY easy to damage. This, to me, equates to piss-poor quality. And then of course there is also the matter of them skinning their Android OS to mimic iOS, which is again adding to the piss-poor rating from me, and further illustrates their lack of creative vision and instead standing on the backs of western companies to steal IP from.
Oh, and the P20, talk about shameless iPhone X knock-off, both hardware and software! Their EMUI looks like Android and iOS had a bastard child!
You obviously missed the fact that Huawei has the world's first TüV Rheinland certified battery. A battery that is technically one of the best on the market. You clearly missed the articles on extreme cold photography and how well the Mate 10 holds up and you obviously missed the video of a Mate 10 receiving a call while trapped in the ice of a frozen lake.
If you’re trapped in a frozen lake, then you’ve got bigger issues to worry about than your phone functioning!
"They are advertising a full day’s use from a 20-minute charge on their website right now. Naturally, this comes with some caveats and the company is pulling this data from their lab tests under very specific conditions."
So whilst they are certified, the claims are apparently from lab tests under "very specific conditions". I also do not see any mention of longevity or maximum cycle count of the cells when constantly charged in this high-voltage manner. Just by electrical and chemical physics alone, I'm willing to bet they won't last long! This to me smells like an MPG rating on a vehicle under "ideal conditions" but never delivers in real life.
5. Android Biometric Security. Ah, you now switch focus to Android. Wasn't your rant aimed at Huawei? Or was it that your claim could fall flat on its face if you aimed it at Huawei? At every presentation of a new Huawei flagship, this point is specifically touched on. Huawei supports industry wide security protocols and has its own secure, on chip area for biometric storage.
Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
Your rant presents distorted information. It reads like a text from someone who is acting on suspicion but unable present anything tangible to support it. You had to go back to 2003/4 to find something and even then had to twist things.
There was an interesting article on Huawei a few days ago that tries to detail the thinking I believe you have. You will probably agree with parts of it:
Bloomberg has been anti-Apple and pro-China for some time now, and most of the “facts” presented by that rag, whether it be financial insights (or rather the exact opposite), tech reviews or their analyst’s reports, are almost all BS and totally disproven over time. Nice of you to use them as a talking point, again showing your love for anything related to Huawei and China / Android, and anything that shines a bad light on Apple.
My rant didn’t present ANY distorted information, and I backed it up with cross-referenced proven materials and records of fact. I went back to 2003/4 to showcase just how long Huawei has been leeching off the backs of western companies to build their “rise to power”, and their predilection to steal IP from others to advance their own goals, instead of investing in proper R&D to come up with their own designs and technologies, something the Chinese have almost never done.
Now, do us all a favour, and go away.
Of all the videos out there you chose that one? So, you think that's piss poor? Ok.
I think you won't find many takers for that opinion. If I were considering that phone and came across that video, it would sway my opinion to buy it, not push me in the other direction! But anyway, as you went to that channel, let's stay there and look at the 'piss poor' Mate 10! Great on the outside. Great on the inside!
But lets not stop at the high end. Let's drop down to the sub 200 dollar band. That's where you would expect quality to suffer:
Your line not of poor but ''piss poor" quality is taking on more water than the Titanic!
You are moving down a dead end when trying to place the poor quality label on Huawei. It's one of the reasons they have become so strong as a brand over the last few years. Yes, they sometimes have a dud (just like everyone) but you simply can't slam your 'piss poor' claim on them.
Nothing constructive to say on the ice front I see. If we are to believe the story, it was a lost phone detected by a passerby when an incoming call was made. But stories aside, it was definitely working in the ice and that was the point (which you just ignored).
Nothing relevant on the battery side either. Do you know any company that doesn't make claims based on lab settings? It's an obligation so you can support your claims! You went looking for stress test videos but didn't bother to back up your claims.
You are willing to bet the batteries won't last very long but provide nothing to support your argument while Huawei has constantly delivered with battery tech. Both on a chemical and charging level.
Some information you might find useful:
Heat and safety:
Chemistry and lifespan:
On biometric security you said:
"Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
It would be interesting to see the links to that information. I'm of the opinion that no biometric is totally unhackable or able to be bypassed. The question is the lengths you need to go to to get into the phone and the amount it could cost you. By the way, the Honor depth sensing tech goes beyond biometrics and your counter point had little or nothing to do with what I was pointing out.
Forget Bloomberg, look at the names and the quotes provided! Are you saying they made it up?
As for Cisco, I suggest you stick to the facts. If they didn't want to get drawn into a 'long drawn out court process' why bring a case in the first place? They settled and shared the costs putting themselves into a situation that prevented them from pursuing the case at a later date. Huawei said the code in question originated at a third party. Some articles claim it was due to a couple of rogue employees. Take your pick, or make up your own line. The fact of the matter is that Huawei is everywhere, has more than 170,000 employees, invests huge amounts into R&D and has a huge patent portfolio. You had to go back to 2003 to dig something out. Is there really so little for you to get your teeth into that you had to go back so far?
Now your argument is sinking faster than the Titanic!
Huawei has constantly stated it has no ties to the Chinese government. At least no ties beyond which is considered normal. If that isn't the case, let's at least put something on the table that questions what they say.
Yes, China has had big problems with IP issues. But Huawei is not China, right? That doesn't make Huawei angels, though. I don't defend Huawei. I correct some (not all!) of the misinformation that some people here incessantly present as fact because I know both companies very well. Everybody gets drawn into IP/patent brawls at some point, Apple included. I rarely speak of Samsung because I have rarely owned anything from them.
I gave a link to an article that said AT&T was falling over itself to help the US intelligence services. You didn't like it because you feel that Bloomberg is anti-American as if that was relevant (the point was the US complaining about government entanglement with a communications company). Forget Bloomberg. That information came out as part of the Snowden leaks. Do you think a different news source would tell things differently?
I am not cherry picking or being vague. I have given you the links that counter your claims.
You can persist if you wish but this is way off topic now. Open a new thread and continue there.
Wow, you really don’t know when to quit, do you? Your behaviour now is evident as being a-typical of someone on the payroll for Huawei, not even Samsung lovers go out of their way this much to distort reality and conjure up pro-Huawei PR pieces to use as “evidence” of your position. I find your comment about the P9 video I posted as making you sway towards actually purchasing that POS rather than looking at another product instead. That statement is VERY telling of your false conjecture.
As I stated in my last response, I have rebutted ALL your BS claims about Huawei superiority and engineering development prowess, and will not be wasting any more of my time with the likes of a troll like you.
I’ve presented vast amounts of information to completely debunk all your BS pro-Huawei PR, which you conveniently like to twist to your advantage whilst denouncing the significance and relevance of the counter claims against them.
None of my arguments and statements of fact are “sinking faster than the Titanic”, what a laugh! You’ve actually proven quite entertaining in your pitiful support of a pro-Chinese government corporation,which, despite your FUD, is widely known for it’s ties with the PRC Government. I know this not only due to publicized reports of said alliance, but also having spent time in China and having inside information to the fact.
I would LOVE to see DED tear your claims to shreds, as you would prove a worthwhile distraction for him to embarrass.
I thought that Avon b7 just had a man crush on Huawei, god knows that he bleats enough about them, but it now seems that he has moved on to fawning over the PRC.
Maybe coming from Spain, with a long though not recent history of fascism, he looks favorably on authoritarian governments.
I don't know if I'd equate his staunch support of Huawei and the PRC due to him being from Spain, or his views on authoritarianism governments as the root cause of his behaviour.
I would be leaning more towards him having absorbed too much mainstream media BS about the topic, or perhaps even being someone paid to support those organizations. Samsung was caught multiple times doing that, sending troll armies out to defend them, wouldn't surprised if Huawei, or the PRC, were doing the same, especially given the state of world political affairs of late.
DED on Huawei? Believe me, I'm sure it's coming, LOL. There's plenty to dig up but it's all well known and well trodden. I've even mentioned some of the negative stuff in the past.
If it arrives, though, it will simply be another write-up of a collection of negatives, conveniently glossing over the good and definitely anything where they top Apple, to focus purely on the bad.
That's why I and many others simply don't read those articles anymore. We may comment on some specific point made by commenters or on some specific point of the articles themselves that we actually read before realising who the author was and then giving up.
Some people like them and it's a case each to their own but by his own recent admission, he writes to be 'accurate', not balanced.
I would point out that that 'accuracy' largely swings only one way, to paint a rosy picture of Apple but normally at the expense of Google and Samsung. That has limited appeal and obviously doesn't appeal to me.
I don't 'defend' Huawei or anyone. I simply correct some of the misinformation or simply ill-informed comments that appear here (and not even all of them - I barely scratch the surface).
I don't profess to have the absolute truth and there is dirt readily available for Huawei. Outline something valid and I will agree with you.
But for the people who read this without posting, I feel it's far better to balance things out and let them form their own opinion.
BTW, I read an interview (from January) this morning from someone at Huawei Mexico who more or less confirmed that they have a FaceID equivalent but that it would increase handset cost at present and they prefer to wait for costs to come down before rolling it out. I think that is a reasonable possibility.
DED on Huawei? Believe me, I'm sure it's coming, LOL. There's plenty to dig up but it's all well known and well trodden. I've even mentioned some of the negative stuff in the past.
If it arrives, though, it will simply be another write-up of a collection of negatives, conveniently glossing over the good and definitely anything where they top Apple, to focus purely on the bad.
That's why I and many others simply don't read those articles anymore. We may comment on some specific point made by commenters or on some specific point of the articles themselves that we actually read before realising who the author was and then giving up.
Some people like them and it's a case each to their own but by his own recent admission, he writes to be 'accurate', not balanced.
I would point out that that 'accuracy' largely swings only one way, to paint a rosy picture of Apple but normally at the expense of Google and Samsung. That has limited appeal and obviously doesn't appeal to me.
I don't 'defend' Huawei or anyone. I simply correct some of the misinformation or simply ill-informed comments that appear here (and not even all of them - I barely scratch the surface).
I don't profess to have the absolute truth and there is dirt readily available for Huawei. Outline something valid and I will agree with you.
But for the people who read this without posting, I feel it's far better to balance things out and let them form their own opinion.
BTW, I read an interview (from January) this morning from someone at Huawei Mexico who more or less confirmed that they have a FaceID equivalent but that it would increase handset cost at present and they prefer to wait for costs to come down before rolling it out. I think that is a reasonable possibility.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to have face recognition until 2019, and it may not even use structured light, instead using a cheaper TOF sensor. If so, the "tease" of it back in November was ill conceived.
Maybe coming from Spain, with a long though not recent history of fascism, he looks favorably on authoritarian governments.
Opinions on Huawai may vary, but this is a scummy comment that deserves an apology, whatever your political stance.
Per Avon b7: "Yes China has big problems with IP issues".
China continues its acquisition phase of technology, so it works well for them to encourage partnerships, but those partnerships almost certainly involve technology transfer in design and manufacturing, the price of access to China's vast markets. Diminishing the role that IP theft has in this expansion is naive, so I, of course, want to know why Avon b7 is so favorable towards China's IP policies.
More to the point, that isn't happening in a vacuum, and there will be consequences for The West when China does displace the U.S. as the preeminent Superpower in the Pacific and South Asia, a chokepoint for trade routes.
It's naive to think that China is a warm and cuddly as it's Pandas, yet Avon b7 casually brushes that aside in his defense of Huawei and the "170" countries that have welcomed Huawei as a telecommunications provider. I'd rather not have a telecom infrastructure from an obvious adversary, especially an authoritarian one.
Maybe coming from Spain, with a long though not recent history of fascism, he looks favorably on authoritarian governments.
Opinions on Huawai may vary, but this is a scummy comment that deserves an apology, whatever your political stance.
Per Avon b7: "Yes China has big problems with IP issues".
China continues its acquisition phase of technology, so it works well for them to encourage partnerships, but those partnerships almost certainly involve technology transfer in design and manufacturing, the price of access to China's vast markets. Diminishing the role that IP theft has in this expansion is naive, so I, of course, want to know why Avon b7 is so favorable towards China's IP policies.
More to the point, that isn't happening in a vacuum, and there will be consequences for The West when China does displace the U.S. as the preeminent Superpower in the Pacific and South Asia, a chokepoint for trade routes.
It's naive to think that China is a warm and cuddly as it's Pandas, yet Avon b7 casually brushes that aside in his defense of Huawei and the "170" countries that have welcomed Huawei as a telecommunications provider. I'd rather not have a telecom infrastructure from an obvious adversary, especially an authoritarian one.
Couldn't give a damn about any of that, you insinuated that someone had fascist leanings because of their nationality, which is a scummy thing to do. Avon b7's nationality has sod all to do with your disagreement.
DED on Huawei? Believe me, I'm sure it's coming, LOL. There's plenty to dig up but it's all well known and well trodden. I've even mentioned some of the negative stuff in the past.
If it arrives, though, it will simply be another write-up of a collection of negatives, conveniently glossing over the good and definitely anything where they top Apple, to focus purely on the bad.
That's why I and many others simply don't read those articles anymore. We may comment on some specific point made by commenters or on some specific point of the articles themselves that we actually read before realising who the author was and then giving up.
Some people like them and it's a case each to their own but by his own recent admission, he writes to be 'accurate', not balanced.
I would point out that that 'accuracy' largely swings only one way, to paint a rosy picture of Apple but normally at the expense of Google and Samsung. That has limited appeal and obviously doesn't appeal to me.
I don't 'defend' Huawei or anyone. I simply correct some of the misinformation or simply ill-informed comments that appear here (and not even all of them - I barely scratch the surface).
I don't profess to have the absolute truth and there is dirt readily available for Huawei. Outline something valid and I will agree with you.
But for the people who read this without posting, I feel it's far better to balance things out and let them form their own opinion.
BTW, I read an interview (from January) this morning from someone at Huawei Mexico who more or less confirmed that they have a FaceID equivalent but that it would increase handset cost at present and they prefer to wait for costs to come down before rolling it out. I think that is a reasonable possibility.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to have face recognition until 2019, and it may not even use structured light, instead using a cheaper TOF sensor. If so, the "tease" of it back in November was ill conceived.
Impossible to know.
There will be four flagships this year. Tomorrow's announcement will be the first of those. There will be three more in 2018.
The tease was far from ill-conceived. It gave us a peek of what's coming and outlined plans that go further than biometrics. Apple has done similar things recently which I also think was the right thing to do.
Avon B7 why are you even on here? This is about Apple products. If you want to talk about PRC Huawei then go elsewhere because we all could care less about it. I would never buy a Huawei heck I would not take one for free because I don’t trust the company or it’s reputation. Plus they are in league with the China government.
Now go away & let us discuss things Apple related.
No love for Huawei, PRC, Apple or any company. I love some products, my wife, my dog and Rob Halford LOL.
I am not affiliated with any political party and moved past party politics long ago, preferring to pair problems with solutions independently or where their ideological roots may lie.
Avon B7 why are you even on here? This is about Apple products. If you want to talk about PRC Huawei then go elsewhere because we all could care less about it. I would never buy a Huawei heck I would not take one for free because I don’t trust the company or it’s reputation. Plus they are in league with the China government.
Now go away & let us discuss things Apple related.
Why am I on here? Well I have a boatload of Apple gear at home for starters. Far more Apple gear than anyone else (of course that includes Huawei).
Second. I have been a Mac user since the Mac II. I know a lot about Apple and have lived through the consequences of every move the company has taken. That goes from the very bad through to the very good. I also have an opinion that isn't tied to a US Apple perspective which is very important as I can guarantee you that, in historical context, the Apple experience on the outside of the US has been vastly different to on the inside.
I was probably the very first person to champion Apple Retail Stores, long before the idea became reality. That was probably the single most important move by the company in recent Apple history.
Almost everything I have put on record over the years as likely to happen, actually has happened - and sometimes in spite of howls of derision from some folks here.
Am I an Apple Defender? Nope. I am very critical of the company (from a consumer perspective) and have criticised Apple for many things. However, it is well founded criticism and supported in any case that I put forward. You are free to share those opinions or not.
Am I a Huawei Defender? Nope. I have been critical of some things but there is a huge amount of ignorance overflowing from some people right here that often ends up leading to factually incorrect statements. Lots of them. I am in a position to correct most of those statements (sometimes robustly) and nine times out of ten I am right. Why, because I actually know a bit about modern Huawei.
I have no experience with Samsung and as a result rarely comment on them.
AI is not Apple only, it is Apple centric. There are lots of articles on Google, Samsung and an ever increasing Chinese focus which is normal as over the last two years Chinese competitors have come to the forefront on a world scale. That of course includes Huawei.
Now, I pointed this new potential reality out more than two years ago and of course was met with those same howls of derision. The difference is I have been consistently right over the years and those people have been consistently wrong.
It's not that I have a crystal ball it's just that I spoke about what I knew and was able to support my opinion with relevant links.
So, for example, when this was said earlier on in this very thread:
"Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to have face recognition until 2019, and it may not even use structured light, instead using a cheaper TOF sensor"
It turned out to be 100% wrong.
The point is I never claimed that it would or wouldn't happen. I simply stated what Huawei itself had stated and what rumour sites were picking up.
I'm not in the habit of digging holes for myself and that is why I tend to provide supporting links.
From there, it's up to you but if you can't live with anything non-Apple, just hit that ignore button, although you will still see non-Apple pieces and one was posted just a short while ago and on Huawei no less.
Avon B7 why are you even on here? This is about Apple products. If you want to talk about PRC Huawei then go elsewhere because we all could care less about it. I would never buy a Huawei heck I would not take one for free because I don’t trust the company or it’s reputation. Plus they are in league with the China government.
Now go away & let us discuss things Apple related.
Why am I on here? Well I have a boatload of Apple gear at home for starters. Far more Apple gear than anyone else (of course that includes Huawei).
Second. I have been a Mac user since the Mac II. I know a lot about Apple and have lived through the consequences of every move the company has taken. That goes from the very bad through to the very good. I also have an opinion that isn't tied to a US Apple perspective which is very important as I can guarantee you that, in historical context, the Apple experience on the outside of the US has been vastly different to on the inside.
I was probably the very first person to champion Apple Retail Stores, long before the idea became reality. That was probably the single most important move by the company in recent Apple history.
Almost everything I have put on record over the years as likely to happen, actually has happened - and sometimes in spite of howls of derision from some folks here.
Am I an Apple Defender? Nope. I am very critical of the company (from a consumer perspective) and have criticised Apple for many things. However, it is well founded criticism and supported in any case that I put forward. You are free to share those opinions or not.
Am I a Huawei Defender? Nope. I have been critical of some things but there is a huge amount of ignorance overflowing from some people right here that often ends up leading to factually incorrect statements. Lots of them. I am in a position to correct most of those statements (sometimes robustly) and nine times out of ten I am right. Why, because I actually know a bit about modern Huawei.
I have no experience with Samsung and as a result rarely comment on them.
AI is not Apple only, it is Apple centric. There are lots of articles on Google, Samsung and an ever increasing Chinese focus which is normal as over the last two years Chinese competitors have come to the forefront on a world scale. That of course includes Huawei.
Now, I pointed this new potential reality out more than two years ago and of course was met with those same howls of derision. The difference is I have been consistently right over the years and those people have been consistently wrong.
It's not that I have a crystal ball it's just that I spoke about what I knew and was able to support my opinion with relevant links.
So, for example, when this was said earlier on in this very thread:
"Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to have face recognition until 2019, and it may not even use structured light, instead using a cheaper TOF sensor"
It turned out to be 100% wrong.
The point is I never claimed that it would or wouldn't happen. I simply stated what Huawei itself had stated and what rumour sites were picking up.
I'm not in the habit of digging holes for myself and that is why I tend to provide supporting links.
From there, it's up to you but if you can't live with anything non-Apple, just hit that ignore button, although you will still see non-Apple pieces and one was posted just a short while ago and on Huawei no less.
I apologize for being rude. This is not how I usually post my opinions. I understand that you are being objective about the matter. I should have said: “In my humble opinion I don’t trust Huawei. Yes I am ignorant about there phones themselves, but the company has a very bad reputation. So much so that government is banning all Huawei & ZTE telecom technology & services from the United States. Wether the government is right or wrong in doing this is up to debate. I just know that Huawei has close ties with the People Republic of China. Again sorry for speaking to you in such a manner. You have a right to your opinions. Keep speaking up for what you humbly believe in.
Avon B7 why are you even on here? This is about Apple products. If you want to talk about PRC Huawei then go elsewhere because we all could care less about it. I would never buy a Huawei heck I would not take one for free because I don’t trust the company or it’s reputation. Plus they are in league with the China government.
Now go away & let us discuss things Apple related.
Why am I on here? Well I have a boatload of Apple gear at home for starters. Far more Apple gear than anyone else (of course that includes Huawei).
Second. I have been a Mac user since the Mac II. I know a lot about Apple and have lived through the consequences of every move the company has taken. That goes from the very bad through to the very good. I also have an opinion that isn't tied to a US Apple perspective which is very important as I can guarantee you that, in historical context, the Apple experience on the outside of the US has been vastly different to on the inside.
I was probably the very first person to champion Apple Retail Stores, long before the idea became reality. That was probably the single most important move by the company in recent Apple history.
Almost everything I have put on record over the years as likely to happen, actually has happened - and sometimes in spite of howls of derision from some folks here.
Am I an Apple Defender? Nope. I am very critical of the company (from a consumer perspective) and have criticised Apple for many things. However, it is well founded criticism and supported in any case that I put forward. You are free to share those opinions or not.
Am I a Huawei Defender? Nope. I have been critical of some things but there is a huge amount of ignorance overflowing from some people right here that often ends up leading to factually incorrect statements. Lots of them. I am in a position to correct most of those statements (sometimes robustly) and nine times out of ten I am right. Why, because I actually know a bit about modern Huawei.
I have no experience with Samsung and as a result rarely comment on them.
AI is not Apple only, it is Apple centric. There are lots of articles on Google, Samsung and an ever increasing Chinese focus which is normal as over the last two years Chinese competitors have come to the forefront on a world scale. That of course includes Huawei.
Now, I pointed this new potential reality out more than two years ago and of course was met with those same howls of derision. The difference is I have been consistently right over the years and those people have been consistently wrong.
It's not that I have a crystal ball it's just that I spoke about what I knew and was able to support my opinion with relevant links.
So, for example, when this was said earlier on in this very thread:
"Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to have face recognition until 2019, and it may not even use structured light, instead using a cheaper TOF sensor"
It turned out to be 100% wrong.
The point is I never claimed that it would or wouldn't happen. I simply stated what Huawei itself had stated and what rumour sites were picking up.
I'm not in the habit of digging holes for myself and that is why I tend to provide supporting links.
From there, it's up to you but if you can't live with anything non-Apple, just hit that ignore button, although you will still see non-Apple pieces and one was posted just a short while ago and on Huawei no less.
I apologize for being rude. This is not how I usually post my opinions. I understand that you are being objective about the matter. I should have said: “In my humble opinion I don’t trust Huawei. Yes I am ignorant about there phones themselves, but the company has a very bad reputation. So much so that government is banning all Huawei & ZTE telecom technology & services from the United States. Wether the government is right or wrong in doing this is up to debate. I just know that Huawei has close ties with the People Republic of China. Again sorry for speaking to you in such a manner. You have a right to your opinions. Keep speaking up for what you humbly believe in.
No need to apologize for anything. You have an opinion. This is a discussion forum where you can express it, support it and defend it.
Of course I will do the same but people always have the ignore button there if they need it.
There are lots of people 'looking in' here who never actually post and what we write may help some people have a better understanding of what is going on on many subjects. Getting to see different opinions or fact based comments laid out and debated, at the very least, can save us part of the work and time involved in locating information for ourselves and inject some balance into things. As in everyday life we have to filter things somewhat to extract the best information.
It helps if you have thick skin of course, but for me personally, there is very little that can get me rattled and apologies just aren't necessary.
Comments
- Huawei works with over 170 countries worldwide.
- AT&T spent more than a year working with Huawei to tune it's phones to its networks.
- AT&T signed an agreement to carry Huawei phones.
- AT&T works with Huawei in Mexico.
None of the above would have happened if their was any reason to suspect Huawei's activities.
Now a reality check. While Huawei became a major player in 4G, it began investing heavily in 5G and will be a major force. The US government doesn't like that idea but did nothing to avoid the current situation. Really nothing. Now it's waking up to reality and sees the only 'solution' as building its own 5G Network. A little late for that don't you think?
So, on top of a de facto ban on major carriers using Huawei communications equipment, the government is taking protectionist measures and trying to stop Huawei challenging Apple on its home turf. All part of larger protectionist measures that have been universally criticised. That is real. That is demonstrable. The US suspicions about Huawei never seem to get further than that: suspicion. It is very suspicious that for all its 'fears', nothing concrete has been put on the table.
Here is a simple idea to chew on. If anything nasty about Huawei was ever demonstrated to be true, it would be their end - and forever. Do you think many of those over 170 countries would continue to do business with them in that scenario? So, the US (or anyone else) could kill Huawei and dramatically set back Chinese influence in communications by simply putting something solid on the table. Now you can also chew on why it hasn't actually done that? Could it be that the bag is simply empty?
Meanwhile, we all already know about different attempts by US agencies to do exactly what the US government is complaining about to foreign hardware while demanding that US communications companies participate in aiding it in getting access to private communications of its own citizens.
I'm sorry, but as things stand today, we basically have a group of old men with political clout, who have convinced themselves that Huawei is up to no good. They can't handle the thought of being topped technologically by a Chinese company and simply didn't realise the importance of communications in modern life. Times have changed.
You are free to share that view but remember, as of today, over 170 countries (governments and private companies) do NOT share that view.
And lastly, something Tim Cook will be fully aware of if protectionist measures escalate:
"The list of primary targets include U.S. exports to China of airplanes by Boeing Co., Apple Inc. products and soybean, says Michael Every, head of financial market research at Rabobank Group in Hong Kong".
The infringement was dropped by Cisco because it wanted to avoid a lengthy, drawn-out legal battle with a Chinese nationalist corporation with the backing of the PRC Government, who is known for favouring local companies and shielding them from foreign IP prosecutions, or often ruling in favour of their local company. Despite finding copied-and-pasted source code stolen by Huawei, this wasn’t going to assure a victory for Cisco, but doesn’t negate the fact this was in fact STOLEN IP by Huawei, and forced Huawei to stop the sale and distribution of the offending products after a third-party audit proved this.
And you obviously have reading comprehension issues, or are marvellous at twisting reality, as I quote The Register:
“The completion of the lawsuit comes after a third party review of Huawei's products, and after Huawei discontinued the sale of products at issue in the suit. Huawei has agreed to change its command line interface, user manuals, help screens and portions of its source code to address Cisco's concerns. Cisco agreed to suspend its patent infringement lawsuit when the third party review got underway so the settlement of the lawsuit comes as no great surprise.”
In plain English, "a" third-party organization CONDUCTED the review of Huawei products and found the stolen source code, NOT a third party was responsible for the stolen source code!
Apple has been working on Face ID for years, as per their own releases on the technology. So far nothing that Huawei, nor any other OEM for that matter, has demonstrated that “goes beyond” Apple’s implementation of facial recognition biometrics, as Apple’s implementation even improves upon the accuracy and sophistication introduced by Microsoft with the Windows Hello system some time ago. Huawei’s “demonstration” of a prototype technology was meant to show “We have it first”, when in fact, they didn’t have anything other than a demonstration model and nothing firmly completed and ready for production before the launch of the iPhone X, where the X was production-ready, and launched in mass quantities, and re-defined the aspects and security of facial recognition technologies.
Allow me to quote a passage from the USCBC (US-China Business Council) website in the matter of IP issues in China:
“China’s IP laws and regulations increasingly reflect international standards, and China has indeed made steady efforts to better protect and enforce IP rights. However, challenges remain, including lingering issues with China’s IP legal framework in areas such as trade secrets, uneven enforcement, and significant procedural barriers that frustrate company efforts to protect IP in China. At the same time, counterfeiters and infringers in China are increasingly sophisticated. They often exploit procedural loopholes, proactively seek to invalidate legitimate patents and trademarks, deploy advanced techniques such as reverse engineering, and find new ways to infiltrate legitimate distribution networks and build their own parallel networks.”
Because Chinese manufacturers often violate their manufacturing IP firewall protections with western partners, they glean previews at foreign companies efforts in developing new technologies, based on as-yet unreleased products, giving them the ability to reverse engineer them in an attempt to get to market first and claim IP rights over the technology instead. How many times have Chinese companies products knockoffs of iPhone’s before their actual release date and then claimed Apple actually infringed THEIR designs?
I have spent time in mainland China, and know first-hand this is how things operate there, and if you think otherwise, your naivety is showing!
It’s quite entertaining you again, cherry-picked an article that attempts to shine Huawei in a positive light.
In this video of the Huawei P9, as just one example (there are MANY more), the stupid thing cracks with relative ease and low pressure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8btJtTWZzU
I’ve also personally handled Huawei devices at my tech bench, and they feel cheap, are VERY flimsy with excessive creak to most of them, and like the video illustrates, are VERY easy to damage. This, to me, equates to piss-poor quality. And then of course there is also the matter of them skinning their Android OS to mimic iOS, which is again adding to the piss-poor rating from me, and further illustrates their lack of creative vision and instead standing on the backs of western companies to steal IP from.
Oh, and the P20, talk about shameless iPhone X knock-off, both hardware and software! Their EMUI looks like Android and iOS had a bastard child!
If you’re trapped in a frozen lake, then you’ve got bigger issues to worry about than your phone functioning!
As for the certification, this is interesting:
https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-supercharge-safety-tuv-rheinland/
To quote a passage from this link:
"They are advertising a full day’s use from a 20-minute charge on their website right now. Naturally, this comes with some caveats and the company is pulling this data from their lab tests under very specific conditions."
So whilst they are certified, the claims are apparently from lab tests under "very specific conditions". I also do not see any mention of longevity or maximum cycle count of the cells when constantly charged in this high-voltage manner. Just by electrical and chemical physics alone, I'm willing to bet they won't last long! This to me smells like an MPG rating on a vehicle under "ideal conditions" but never delivers in real life.
Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
Bloomberg has been anti-Apple and pro-China for some time now, and most of the “facts” presented by that rag, whether it be financial insights (or rather the exact opposite), tech reviews or their analyst’s reports, are almost all BS and totally disproven over time. Nice of you to use them as a talking point, again showing your love for anything related to Huawei and China / Android, and anything that shines a bad light on Apple.
My rant didn’t present ANY distorted information, and I backed it up with cross-referenced proven materials and records of fact. I went back to 2003/4 to showcase just how long Huawei has been leeching off the backs of western companies to build their “rise to power”, and their predilection to steal IP from others to advance their own goals, instead of investing in proper R&D to come up with their own designs and technologies, something the Chinese have almost never done.
Now, do us all a favour, and go away.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/23/596529839/what-stake-china-has-in-american-intellectual-property?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news
I think you won't find many takers for that opinion. If I were considering that phone and came across that video, it would sway my opinion to buy it, not push me in the other direction! But anyway, as you went to that channel, let's stay there and look at the 'piss poor' Mate 10! Great on the outside. Great on the inside!
But lets not stop at the high end. Let's drop down to the sub 200 dollar band. That's where you would expect quality to suffer:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/huaweis-200-honor-7x-is-the-future-of-the-smartphone-industry/
Your line not of poor but ''piss poor" quality is taking on more water than the Titanic!
You are moving down a dead end when trying to place the poor quality label on Huawei. It's one of the reasons they have become so strong as a brand over the last few years. Yes, they sometimes have a dud (just like everyone) but you simply can't slam your 'piss poor' claim on them.
Nothing constructive to say on the ice front I see. If we are to believe the story, it was a lost phone detected by a passerby when an incoming call was made. But stories aside, it was definitely working in the ice and that was the point (which you just ignored).
Nothing relevant on the battery side either. Do you know any company that doesn't make claims based on lab settings? It's an obligation so you can support your claims! You went looking for stress test videos but didn't bother to back up your claims.
You are willing to bet the batteries won't last very long but provide nothing to support your argument while Huawei has constantly delivered with battery tech. Both on a chemical and charging level.
Some information you might find useful:
Heat and safety:
Chemistry and lifespan:
On biometric security you said:
"Which security experts have already proven don’t hold up well under scrutiny and the biometrics data can be siphoned off, hence my statement “fall’s flat on its face”.
It would be interesting to see the links to that information. I'm of the opinion that no biometric is totally unhackable or able to be bypassed. The question is the lengths you need to go to to get into the phone and the amount it could cost you. By the way, the Honor depth sensing tech goes beyond biometrics and your counter point had little or nothing to do with what I was pointing out.
Forget Bloomberg, look at the names and the quotes provided! Are you saying they made it up?
As for Cisco, I suggest you stick to the facts. If they didn't want to get drawn into a 'long drawn out court process' why bring a case in the first place? They settled and shared the costs putting themselves into a situation that prevented them from pursuing the case at a later date. Huawei said the code in question originated at a third party. Some articles claim it was due to a couple of rogue employees. Take your pick, or make up your own line. The fact of the matter is that Huawei is everywhere, has more than 170,000 employees, invests huge amounts into R&D and has a huge patent portfolio. You had to go back to 2003 to dig something out. Is there really so little for you to get your teeth into that you had to go back so far?
Now your argument is sinking faster than the Titanic!
Huawei has constantly stated it has no ties to the Chinese government. At least no ties beyond which is considered normal. If that isn't the case, let's at least put something on the table that questions what they say.
Yes, China has had big problems with IP issues. But Huawei is not China, right? That doesn't make Huawei angels, though. I don't defend Huawei. I correct some (not all!) of the misinformation that some people here incessantly present as fact because I know both companies very well. Everybody gets drawn into IP/patent brawls at some point, Apple included. I rarely speak of Samsung because I have rarely owned anything from them.
I gave a link to an article that said AT&T was falling over itself to help the US intelligence services. You didn't like it because you feel that Bloomberg is anti-American as if that was relevant (the point was the US complaining about government entanglement with a communications company). Forget Bloomberg. That information came out as part of the Snowden leaks. Do you think a different news source would tell things differently?
I am not cherry picking or being vague. I have given you the links that counter your claims.
You can persist if you wish but this is way off topic now. Open a new thread and continue there.
Some people still use the terms Huawei and the Chinese government interchangeably. It's important to see the differences and not go over the top.
There is a simple truth. For technology, China has become a superpower. The numbers are there. The Chinese have invested heavily in R&D while others have invested less. They are now creating technology as well as manufacturing it. The rest of the world will have to adapt. The EU has plans to produce it's own processors etc. It has stated it doesn't want to depend on foreign technology for security reasons.
As a whole, one of the best responses is to simply compete better. No one likes being on the back foot but these things are on long term cycles. China is booming now but that won't last forever.
www.economist.com/news/leaders/21729430-does-it-play-fair-how-china-battling-ever-more-intensely-world-markets
As I stated in my last response, I have rebutted ALL your BS claims about Huawei superiority and engineering development prowess, and will not be wasting any more of my time with the likes of a troll like you.
I’ve presented vast amounts of information to completely debunk all your BS pro-Huawei PR, which you conveniently like to twist to your advantage whilst denouncing the significance and relevance of the counter claims against them.
None of my arguments and statements of fact are “sinking faster than the Titanic”, what a laugh! You’ve actually proven quite entertaining in your pitiful support of a pro-Chinese government corporation,which, despite your FUD, is widely known for it’s ties with the PRC Government. I know this not only due to publicized reports of said alliance, but also having spent time in China and having inside information to the fact.
I would LOVE to see DED tear your claims to shreds, as you would prove a worthwhile distraction for him to embarrass.
I would be leaning more towards him having absorbed too much mainstream media BS about the topic, or perhaps even being someone paid to support those organizations. Samsung was caught multiple times doing that, sending troll armies out to defend them, wouldn't surprised if Huawei, or the PRC, were doing the same, especially given the state of world political affairs of late.
If it arrives, though, it will simply be another write-up of a collection of negatives, conveniently glossing over the good and definitely anything where they top Apple, to focus purely on the bad.
That's why I and many others simply don't read those articles anymore. We may comment on some specific point made by commenters or on some specific point of the articles themselves that we actually read before realising who the author was and then giving up.
Some people like them and it's a case each to their own but by his own recent admission, he writes to be 'accurate', not balanced.
I would point out that that 'accuracy' largely swings only one way, to paint a rosy picture of Apple but normally at the expense of Google and Samsung. That has limited appeal and obviously doesn't appeal to me.
I don't 'defend' Huawei or anyone. I simply correct some of the misinformation or simply ill-informed comments that appear here (and not even all of them - I barely scratch the surface).
I don't profess to have the absolute truth and there is dirt readily available for Huawei. Outline something valid and I will agree with you.
But for the people who read this without posting, I feel it's far better to balance things out and let them form their own opinion.
BTW, I read an interview (from January) this morning from someone at Huawei Mexico who more or less confirmed that they have a FaceID equivalent but that it would increase handset cost at present and they prefer to wait for costs to come down before rolling it out. I think that is a reasonable possibility.
Article in Spanish:
https://www.altonivel.com.mx/empresas/innovacion/huawei-inteligencia-artificial-face-id/
China continues its acquisition phase of technology, so it works well for them to encourage partnerships, but those partnerships almost certainly involve technology transfer in design and manufacturing, the price of access to China's vast markets. Diminishing the role that IP theft has in this expansion is naive, so I, of course, want to know why Avon b7 is so favorable towards China's IP policies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/26/xi-jinping-china-presidential-limit-scrap-dictator-for-life
More to the point, that isn't happening in a vacuum, and there will be consequences for The West when China does displace the U.S. as the preeminent Superpower in the Pacific and South Asia, a chokepoint for trade routes.
It's naive to think that China is a warm and cuddly as it's Pandas, yet Avon b7 casually brushes that aside in his defense of Huawei and the "170" countries that have welcomed Huawei as a telecommunications provider. I'd rather not have a telecom infrastructure from an obvious adversary, especially an authoritarian one.
There will be four flagships this year. Tomorrow's announcement will be the first of those. There will be three more in 2018.
The tease was far from ill-conceived. It gave us a peek of what's coming and outlined plans that go further than biometrics. Apple has done similar things recently which I also think was the right thing to do.
Rumours still abound, though.
Now go away & let us discuss things Apple related.
I am not affiliated with any political party and moved past party politics long ago, preferring to pair problems with solutions independently or where their ideological roots may lie.
Second. I have been a Mac user since the Mac II. I know a lot about Apple and have lived through the consequences of every move the company has taken. That goes from the very bad through to the very good. I also have an opinion that isn't tied to a US Apple perspective which is very important as I can guarantee you that, in historical context, the Apple experience on the outside of the US has been vastly different to on the inside.
I was probably the very first person to champion Apple Retail Stores, long before the idea became reality. That was probably the single most important move by the company in recent Apple history.
Almost everything I have put on record over the years as likely to happen, actually has happened - and sometimes in spite of howls of derision from some folks here.
Am I an Apple Defender? Nope. I am very critical of the company (from a consumer perspective) and have criticised Apple for many things. However, it is well founded criticism and supported in any case that I put forward. You are free to share those opinions or not.
Am I a Huawei Defender? Nope. I have been critical of some things but there is a huge amount of ignorance overflowing from some people right here that often ends up leading to factually incorrect statements. Lots of them. I am in a position to correct most of those statements (sometimes robustly) and nine times out of ten I am right. Why, because I actually know a bit about modern Huawei.
I have no experience with Samsung and as a result rarely comment on them.
AI is not Apple only, it is Apple centric. There are lots of articles on Google, Samsung and an ever increasing Chinese focus which is normal as over the last two years Chinese competitors have come to the forefront on a world scale. That of course includes Huawei.
Now, I pointed this new potential reality out more than two years ago and of course was met with those same howls of derision. The difference is I have been consistently right over the years and those people have been consistently wrong.
It's not that I have a crystal ball it's just that I spoke about what I knew and was able to support my opinion with relevant links.
So, for example, when this was said earlier on in this very thread:
"Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to have face recognition until 2019, and it may not even use structured light, instead using a cheaper TOF sensor"
It turned out to be 100% wrong.
The point is I never claimed that it would or wouldn't happen. I simply stated what Huawei itself had stated and what rumour sites were picking up.
I'm not in the habit of digging holes for myself and that is why I tend to provide supporting links.
From there, it's up to you but if you can't live with anything non-Apple, just hit that ignore button, although you will still see non-Apple pieces and one was posted just a short while ago and on Huawei no less.
Of course I will do the same but people always have the ignore button there if they need it.
There are lots of people 'looking in' here who never actually post and what we write may help some people have a better understanding of what is going on on many subjects. Getting to see different opinions or fact based comments laid out and debated, at the very least, can save us part of the work and time involved in locating information for ourselves and inject some balance into things. As in everyday life we have to filter things somewhat to extract the best information.
It helps if you have thick skin of course, but for me personally, there is very little that can get me rattled and apologies just aren't necessary.
We disagree on Huawei, which is fine.