Huawei tossed from SD Association, Wi-Fi Alliance, RAM spec group

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 55
    Huawei apologists are  acting like robo callers.  bigging up Huawei tech as if they invented 5G on their  own R&D effort when in fact they are reliant on ARM, Google, Wifi Alliance, SD Association just like everybody else.  Brazenly they also did a lot of IP theft to get to the top. Now that the jig us up, everyone can point put that the Emperor has no clothes  after all.

    Huawei windows drivers acting like malware broke the camel’s back, so to speak. I mean why would a driver file inject code to allow privileged access/backdoor to the Windows process? This  malware-like behavior is how it got detected by the newer Wiindows Defender version 1809. 
    “Microsoft’s researchers  then continued to look at the driver and found another flawed capability: it could map any page of physical memory into a user process. with both read and write permissions. With this, the user process can modify the kernel or anything else, and as such it, too, represents a gaping flaw.”
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/03/how-microsoft-found-a-huawei-driver-that-opened-systems-up-to-attack/

    anantksundaramcornchipStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 55
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 410member
    lkrupp said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    And we brought it on ourselves by constantly demanding cheaper prices, thereby all but forcing American companies to manufacture in China. So I suppose your solution is to simply capitulate to the Chinese and become their economic servants? Better Red than Dead?
    Fact: China has the second largest economy, soon the largest economy in the world.

    China is returning to the top of the economic system, a place it occupied before the industrial revolution. The days of comfortable multilateralism superintended by the USA along Jeffersonian principles is fading away.  Power and influence (setting the rules) naturally accompanies the re-ascension of China as the world's biggest economy (wealth).

    The Huawei thing, to me, is just a micro-instantiation of the much larger macro economics that are emerging and likely won't be the last.

    The re-linking of population and GDP and the flow-on return to great-power economics and politics is happening and is the world the USA is going to find itself living in. I would be surprised if any of this is news to Trump.


    avon b7
  • Reply 23 of 55
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,196member
    lkrupp said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    And we brought it on ourselves by constantly demanding cheaper prices, thereby all but forcing American companies to manufacture in China. So I suppose your solution is to simply capitulate to the Chinese and become their economic servants? Better Red than Dead?

    “And we brought it on ourselves...”  Yes, we did.

    “It’s a lazy CEO that looks only at a spreadsheet and decides the fate of company plant, material, and most importantly of all, its employees and the towns and cities nearby.”  That’s a paraphrase of a quote by Hamdi Ulukaya, CEO of Chobani the yogurt company.  He did a recent TED talk and for me it was an eye opener.

    In many ways American CEOs sold their employees out for a quick boost to the company bottom line and their own pockets.  I never used to think like that before.  But Hamdi Ulukaya’s story is profound.  It is these very CEOs that helped to build the Chinese manufacturing juggernaut we are so concerned about today.  These CEOs never had any appreciation for the most valuable asset they had, which was their employees.  I sincerely hope Tim Cook takes note.

    edited May 2019 electrosoftn2itivguycornchipStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 55
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,363member
    kimberly said:
    lkrupp said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    And we brought it on ourselves by constantly demanding cheaper prices, thereby all but forcing American companies to manufacture in China. So I suppose your solution is to simply capitulate to the Chinese and become their economic servants? Better Red than Dead?
    Fact: China has the second largest economy, soon the largest economy in the world.

    China is returning to the top of the economic system, a place it occupied before the industrial revolution. The days of comfortable multilateralism superintended by the USA along Jeffersonian principles is fading away.  Power and influence (setting the rules) naturally accompanies the re-ascension of China as the world's biggest economy (wealth).

    The Huawei thing, to me, is just a micro-instantiation of the much larger macro economics that are emerging and likely won't be the last.

    The re-linking of population and GDP and the flow-on return to great-power economics and politics is happening and is the world the USA is going to find itself living in. I would be surprised if any of this is news to Trump.


    Oh, you’re getting ahead of yourself. When and if China can actually home-grow an innovation that is adopted by the world, come back and post. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 55
    ivanhivanh Posts: 597member
    At war, you’ll destroy, instead of negotiating about the a military base of your enemy.  If Trade War is a real war, Huawei is a critical military base of China.
    Will Huawei R.I.P.? It’s quite resilience and refuses to die, I believe.
    Huawei’s weakness is lack of USD / Florine currencies to buy foreign parts / startup companies out of mainland China and Hong Kong. 
    But why no one is paying attention to Huawei strategy of giving up the current arena (5G infrastructure and mobile phone) but instead it’s moving fast in the Edge Computing? 
    In Edge Computing era / post-cloud-computing-era, Huawei has the dominant edge of 1.3 billion people in mainland China who will be mandated to use Huawei’s IoT. Centralised clouds and mobile phones will be soon in obsolete. 
    Huawei is still an horrible threat if they do the right thing.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 55
    chainskichainski Posts: 2member
    I think there is a general consensus that China has not allowed the same access to their markets as the US and other countries have. Furthermore, it is clear that there is a lot of IP misappropriation. With some companies like MIcron - is was blatant, and even unfair court treatments. There are also so many knock-offs coming out of China, be it turning on the factory at night or walking across the street, the govt there (and BABA) are doing nothing about it.

    Therefore, it makes sense to push for a solid deal.

    Unfortunately, the approach that the US has used is far from optimal. One can easily reason that the negotiation team is a C-team at best.

    While it might seem aggressive, the long term effect of cutting off Huawei from chips will have a chilling effect on US companies. Chinese companies will be forced to select suppliers that can't be cut off in the future. This will substantially reduce the optimal outcome of free-trade. Thereby increasing costs for the whole - world and decreasing the quality of life for future citizens.

    The strategy is not focused on producing the right equilibrium of balance the rewards the US 10 years down the road - but instead, for a short term perception, that may be forgotten 6 weeks from now.

    Let's be clear the lead negotiator is an ex US-Steel negotiator if the strategy was so good why are US steel stocks trading at 30% of what they were a year ago? Hint they didn't think long term about the cause and effect of their actions.

    As someone that wants to support the administration for being aggressive on China - I wish we had smarter people at the table. 
    IreneWtmayliketheskywatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 55
    rotateleftbyterotateleftbyte Posts: 1,594member
    apple ][ said:
    Seems like a pretty bad week for Huawei. :#
    They are still advertising their phones on UK TV!

    No doubt the [redacted] in Chief will want that to stop before he visits us in a couple of weeks.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 55
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 410member
    kimberly said:
    lkrupp said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    And we brought it on ourselves by constantly demanding cheaper prices, thereby all but forcing American companies to manufacture in China. So I suppose your solution is to simply capitulate to the Chinese and become their economic servants? Better Red than Dead?
    Fact: China has the second largest economy, soon the largest economy in the world.

    China is returning to the top of the economic system, a place it occupied before the industrial revolution. The days of comfortable multilateralism superintended by the USA along Jeffersonian principles is fading away.  Power and influence (setting the rules) naturally accompanies the re-ascension of China as the world's biggest economy (wealth).

    The Huawei thing, to me, is just a micro-instantiation of the much larger macro economics that are emerging and likely won't be the last.

    The re-linking of population and GDP and the flow-on return to great-power economics and politics is happening and is the world the USA is going to find itself living in. I would be surprised if any of this is news to Trump.


    Oh, you’re getting ahead of yourself. When and if China can actually home-grow an innovation that is adopted by the world, come back and post. 

    Home-grow an innovation .. no idea but I just Googled that and the top 4: paper; compass; gunpowder & type printing changed the course of human civilization so .. I have come back to post.

    What has "home-grow an innovation" got to do with the size and growth of the Chinese economy?

    China's growth in wealth is on a scale we have never seen. Beijing alone has 100+ billionaires. By some calculations China is already the largest economy in the world. It is believed by some economics forecasters that India and China will push the USA down to third place in the next decade (the USA economy has held the number one spot since 1871). The idea that China (& India) are going to be strategic clients of the USA over the next 20-30 years and kept in line by the 7th fleet is just an absurdity.

    Anyhow, a major discussion drift for this thread on economics sanctions against Huawei.
  • Reply 30 of 55
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 300member
    If we briefly ignore that it is Huawei that is the target in this case, who may (or may not, I have no factual basis) pose a security threat -- doesn't the latest development set a dangerous precedent? What companies can now afford to take the risk to rely on American suppliers or technology standards organizations?

    The increased use of open source software has somewhat reduced the risks, but something obviously needs to be done to ensure reliable sourcing of HW (and fair use of IP).

    No matter what Huawei has done, this is worrying news.
    edited May 2019 avon b7watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 55
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,425member
    Huawei is a MAJOR security threat. Any company within mainland China needs to be cut off entirely from everything, as Chinese law states that the Communist Party has full access to everything in all companies that operate within its borders. They are engaging in alternative warfare on us (political, legal, and media), and they tell both us and the United Nations ANYTHING to get us to stop asking, but then they continue to do as they wish. Their phones come implanted with spyware, and this has already been verified and proven. It's not a company, but an arm of the Chinese Communist Party, essentially. Huawei needs to be eliminated and weeded out of existence in its entirety for the sake of humanity's future. It is wrong to support companies that violate basic human rights, like Apple has done with their Chinese servers (they gave the encryption keys to their Chinese "partner", which is state-run, throwing Apple's "privacy" promise out the window) and like Microsoft has done with its modified Skype, which is modified to monitor all users.
    All developed nations (big or small) are security threats. Some less developed nations are even bigger security threats.

    To turn your argument on its head, would you understand it if 1.4 billion Chinese people claimed the US were a security threat and should be 'cut off entirely from everything'?

    You are looking at things as if the US were the centre of the universe and everything must revolve around it, dancing to its tune in the process.

    Things are changing, and quickly. Nothing will stop that change. The only solution is to adapt to new world realities.

    Using executive orders to blacklist companies in a globalised world can only work if there is consensus. Arbitrary and extreme actions will always backfire.

    The US ended up practically alone with regards to Iran sanctions. It has consistently failed to tackle climate change, going against majority opinion. It pulled out of TPP.

    The groundless (no evidence ever presented) US claims regarding national security and subsequent - arbitrary - blacklisting of a company and its affiliates to protect US industry and shore up capacity to influence world politics (power and control) have put the world on alert. This attitude doesn't belong in this century.

    The US is and always was a security threat (as are many others, as I said above) but Trump has opened Pandora's Box and no one knows what the effects will be. However, we can be sure of one thing: the world has taken note and now prepare itself for an era with far less US influence going forward. That can only damage the US on every level imaginable. Not even a new president would be able to change things. The ball os rolling.

    Huawei is the affected party in this case but the message has been heard loud and clear. Governments will move to protect themselves from US 'dependence'.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/05/25/beijing-hits-back-over-huawei-threatens-cyber-law-to-block-u-s-tech-from-china/#4c16c1e24337



    edited May 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 32 of 55
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Huawei apologists are  acting like robo callers.  bigging up Huawei tech as if they invented 5G on their  own R&D effort when in fact they are reliant on ARM, Google, Wifi Alliance, SD Association just like everybody else.  Brazenly they also did a lot of IP theft to get to the top. Now that the jig us up, everyone can point put that the Emperor has no clothes  after all.

    Huawei windows drivers acting like malware broke the camel’s back, so to speak. I mean why would a driver file inject code to allow privileged access/backdoor to the Windows process? This  malware-like behavior is how it got detected by the newer Wiindows Defender version 1809. 
    “Microsoft’s researchers  then continued to look at the driver and found another flawed capability: it could map any page of physical memory into a user process. with both read and write permissions. With this, the user process can modify the kernel or anything else, and as such it, too, represents a gaping flaw.”
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/03/how-microsoft-found-a-huawei-driver-that-opened-systems-up-to-attack/


    So I guess it was ok when American Companies installed key loggers as part of their drivers?

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/keylogger-found-in-audio-driver-of-hp-laptops/


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 34 of 55
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,363member
    kimberly said:
    kimberly said:
    lkrupp said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    And we brought it on ourselves by constantly demanding cheaper prices, thereby all but forcing American companies to manufacture in China. So I suppose your solution is to simply capitulate to the Chinese and become their economic servants? Better Red than Dead?
    Fact: China has the second largest economy, soon the largest economy in the world.

    China is returning to the top of the economic system, a place it occupied before the industrial revolution. The days of comfortable multilateralism superintended by the USA along Jeffersonian principles is fading away.  Power and influence (setting the rules) naturally accompanies the re-ascension of China as the world's biggest economy (wealth).

    The Huawei thing, to me, is just a micro-instantiation of the much larger macro economics that are emerging and likely won't be the last.

    The re-linking of population and GDP and the flow-on return to great-power economics and politics is happening and is the world the USA is going to find itself living in. I would be surprised if any of this is news to Trump.


    Oh, you’re getting ahead of yourself. When and if China can actually home-grow an innovation that is adopted by the world, come back and post. 

    Home-grow an innovation .. no idea but I just Googled that and the top 4: paper; compass; gunpowder & type printing changed the course of human civilization so .. I have come back to post.

    What has "home-grow an innovation" got to do with the size and growth of the Chinese economy?

    China's growth in wealth is on a scale we have never seen. Beijing alone has 100+ billionaires. By some calculations China is already the largest economy in the world. It is believed by some economics forecasters that India and China will push the USA down to third place in the next decade (the USA economy has held the number one spot since 1871). The idea that China (& India) are going to be strategic clients of the USA over the next 20-30 years and kept in line by the 7th fleet is just an absurdity.

    Anyhow, a major discussion drift for this thread on economics sanctions against Huawei.
    Groan... yes, yes, paper, gunpowder, porcelain... we know that. 

    Yes, we are talking about the era of Huawei and tech here.
    edited May 2019 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 55
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    holyone said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    One knockoff manufacturer will do nothing, unless you mean retaliation which will hurt both parties.
    I don’t think you realize how large and influential Huawei is...

    Is every company that uses Android in some of their products going to be a “knockoff” manufacturer?

    From wiki:
    Huawei had over 188,000 employees as of September 2018, around 76,000 of them engaged in Research & Development (R&D).[5][6] It has 21 R&D institutes around the world.[7][8] As of 2017 the company invested US$13.8 billion in R&D.[9][10]
    In December 2018, Huawei reported that its annual revenue had risen to US$108.5 billion in 2018 (a 21% increase over 2017).[16]

    Huawei might be #1 (in importance) in the 5G rollout globally if it wasn’t for the trade war.  I’m as concerned about the IP theft as anyone, but Huawei is also a global innovator.  Everyone is better off if we can get a deal in place ASAP.

    My question is what exactly is stoping China announcing tomorrow that everything Apple Inc. is now banned and Tim has 3 months to fuck off ( in those exact words), it seems to me that this has potential to get real hilarious, what am I missing ?

     Though I get the crying over IP theft and the deficit I have to ask however, since no American company is forced to operate in China and all companies enter China knowing full well the cost and requirements why is no one asking Apple why the fuck  they give up their IP in China ? Isn't that a more prudent question ?

    There's a price to pay for market access everywhere India requires local manufacturing for example, we may talk about those costs being too high and/or unfair but Apple doesn't seam to think so, otherwise why are they in China or any other place ? If that country is so despicable then why go there ?, also why is Apple or any America based conglomerates' IP always referred to as American IP ? What does America have to do with Apple property, doesn't that belong to its share holders around the world ?

    Just asking coz I'm really curious i'm not American so this all seems just weird to me.
    What’s weird to me are all these little straw man fetish plays that come out in the comments. As in “Tim has three months to fuck off”?
    StrangeDayssuddenly newtonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    holyone said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    One knockoff manufacturer will do nothing, unless you mean retaliation which will hurt both parties.
    I don’t think you realize how large and influential Huawei is...

    Is every company that uses Android in some of their products going to be a “knockoff” manufacturer?

    From wiki:
    Huawei had over 188,000 employees as of September 2018, around 76,000 of them engaged in Research & Development (R&D).[5][6] It has 21 R&D institutes around the world.[7][8] As of 2017 the company invested US$13.8 billion in R&D.[9][10]
    In December 2018, Huawei reported that its annual revenue had risen to US$108.5 billion in 2018 (a 21% increase over 2017).[16]

    Huawei might be #1 (in importance) in the 5G rollout globally if it wasn’t for the trade war.  I’m as concerned about the IP theft as anyone, but Huawei is also a global innovator.  Everyone is better off if we can get a deal in place ASAP.

    My question is what exactly is stoping China announcing tomorrow that everything Apple Inc. is now banned and Tim has 3 months to fuck off ( in those exact words), it seems to me that this has potential to get real hilarious, what am I missing ?

     Though I get the crying over IP theft and the deficit I have to ask however, since no American company is forced to operate in China and all companies enter China knowing full well the cost and requirements why is no one asking Apple why the fuck  they give up their IP in China ? Isn't that a more prudent question ?

    There's a price to pay for market access everywhere India requires local manufacturing for example, we may talk about those costs being too high and/or unfair but Apple doesn't seam to think so, otherwise why are they in China or any other place ? If that country is so despicable then why go there ?, also why is Apple or any America based conglomerates' IP always referred to as American IP ? What does America have to do with Apple property, doesn't that belong to its share holders around the world ?

    Just asking coz I'm really curious i'm not American so this all seems just weird to me.
    What a naive perspective. Why doesn't China kick out all of Apple? Jobs. Manufacturing jobs. Of the most successful product in human history, the iPhone, and all of their other products. Not to mention that even the Chinese recognize iPhone is better than the knockoffs, which is why the tweets championing the knockoffs are posted on...iPhones. Oops.

    As for "crying over IP theft", you seem to be suggesting that Apple and other US companies should be OK with IP theft and corporate espionage in return for manufacturing in China. That there is a quid pro quo relationship -- as if the Chinese firms weren't in fact being paid for the manufacturing jobs by the client that hired them to build, not steal.

    Curious victim blaming. It's like saying of a mugging victim, "But he's rich! He can afford to be mugged!" riiiight
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member


    dysamoria said:
    [...]
    Is the bigger picture really being looked at by trump supporters in this forum???
    Of course not. That’s not how his supporters work. 
    That's a stupid comment. I support Trump's actions on this front, but I do not support Trump politically in any way. Even many Democrats support him on this one, including Chuck Schumer and Bernie Sanders.
    Agreed. Would never vote for the buffoon, but the US intelligence agencies are the correct -- it makes little sense to put a murderous authoritarian single-party regime in charge of the free world's communications. The supporters here are either astroturfing or nuts.
    edited May 2019 liketheskywatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member

    apple ][ said:

    dysamoria said:
    [...]
    Is the bigger picture really being looked at by trump supporters in this forum???
    Of course not. That’s not how his supporters work. 
    That's a stupid comment. I support Trump's actions on this front, but I do not support Trump politically in any way. Even many Democrats support him on this one, including Chuck Schumer and Bernie Sanders.
    You are obviously not a part of the resistance, because they have to be against everything that Trump is for. It doesn't matter if he cures cancer next week, the resistance will be against it. And if they're so smart, then how come they lost, and will most likely lose again?
    Holy inferiority complexes, batman. That you believe such things speaks volumes for where you're at. Yikes.
  • Reply 39 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    kimberly said:
    kimberly said:
    lkrupp said:
    genovelle said:
    mac_dog said:
    OUCH! That’s going to leave a mark. 
    The possible retaliation has the potential to  wreck havoc on our entire economy. 
    And we brought it on ourselves by constantly demanding cheaper prices, thereby all but forcing American companies to manufacture in China. So I suppose your solution is to simply capitulate to the Chinese and become their economic servants? Better Red than Dead?
    Fact: China has the second largest economy, soon the largest economy in the world.

    China is returning to the top of the economic system, a place it occupied before the industrial revolution. The days of comfortable multilateralism superintended by the USA along Jeffersonian principles is fading away.  Power and influence (setting the rules) naturally accompanies the re-ascension of China as the world's biggest economy (wealth).

    The Huawei thing, to me, is just a micro-instantiation of the much larger macro economics that are emerging and likely won't be the last.

    The re-linking of population and GDP and the flow-on return to great-power economics and politics is happening and is the world the USA is going to find itself living in. I would be surprised if any of this is news to Trump.


    Oh, you’re getting ahead of yourself. When and if China can actually home-grow an innovation that is adopted by the world, come back and post. 

    Home-grow an innovation .. no idea but I just Googled that and the top 4: paper; compass; gunpowder & type printing changed the course of human civilization so .. I have come back to post.
    Wow. Got anything from this century?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,251member
    jfanning said:
    Huawei apologists are  acting like robo callers.  bigging up Huawei tech as if they invented 5G on their  own R&D effort when in fact they are reliant on ARM, Google, Wifi Alliance, SD Association just like everybody else.  Brazenly they also did a lot of IP theft to get to the top. Now that the jig us up, everyone can point put that the Emperor has no clothes  after all.

    Huawei windows drivers acting like malware broke the camel’s back, so to speak. I mean why would a driver file inject code to allow privileged access/backdoor to the Windows process? This  malware-like behavior is how it got detected by the newer Wiindows Defender version 1809. 
    “Microsoft’s researchers  then continued to look at the driver and found another flawed capability: it could map any page of physical memory into a user process. with both read and write permissions. With this, the user process can modify the kernel or anything else, and as such it, too, represents a gaping flaw.”
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/03/how-microsoft-found-a-huawei-driver-that-opened-systems-up-to-attack/


    So I guess it was ok when American Companies installed key loggers as part of their drivers?

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/keylogger-found-in-audio-driver-of-hp-laptops/


    Were you to actually read the article you linked, you'd note that they don't believe it was malicious, just that it was sloppy (by writing to a plain-text file that a malicious process could then take advantage of). Nor are they a state-sponsored agent. But nice try.
    watto_cobra
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