2019 MacBook Pro keyboard changes don't look like they're going to do much

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 47
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    bitmod said:
    Every laptop manufacturer on the planet has keyboard complaints. It's one of the parts that can fail. Nobody has designed a failure proof mechanical keyboard.

    WRONG! Apple from 1995 - 2015 had zero keyboard problems that weren’t within normal wear and tear.
    Got any evidence to support this?

    Nope. Thought not. 
  • Reply 42 of 47
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 267member
    Rayz2016 said:
    bitmod said:
    Every laptop manufacturer on the planet has keyboard complaints. It's one of the parts that can fail. Nobody has designed a failure proof mechanical keyboard.

    WRONG! Apple from 1995 - 2015 had zero keyboard problems that weren’t within normal wear and tear.
    Got any evidence to support this?

    Nope. Thought not. 
    Actually I do... there was no program or class action lawsuit to fix the keyboards. Nobody ever complained because they just worked. 

    Guess you thought wrong huh. 
  • Reply 43 of 47
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Can’t say I’m surprised to be honest. 

    Apple will make design/material/manufacturing adjustments based on the examination of real reports from real engineers from real machines returned to them with real problems. 

    They won’t do anything based on echoes and wails on internet forums. The changes reflect the nature and size of the problem. Deal with it. 

    I’ve been using a MacBook Pro seven days a week for two years. I have not experienced any of the problems being yelled about, but then I wash, keep my work area clean and I can touch type, so I could an outlier. 

    The fact that Apple has not increased the travel is also not a surprise. Apple’s younger and future customers are accustomed to typing on flat surfaces, so I’m not expecting a change in direction. 



  • Reply 44 of 47
    junior99 said: As an anecdote, I’ve had at least a dozen Apple laptops (and other family members as well) going back over 20 years. No keyboard problems. And our PC laptops as well, even in our $250 Compaq laptop. No problems.  
    My own anecdote is that I've experienced multiple failures with Mac scissor-mechanism keyboards for desktop, as well as a total failure of a G4 laptop within two years. I also have a black plastic MacBook that still operates perfectly when plugged in. You can't really draw many conclusions from anecdotes.  
  • Reply 45 of 47
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,391member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Can’t say I’m surprised to be honest. 

    Apple will make design/material/manufacturing adjustments based on the examination of real reports from real engineers from real machines returned to them with real problems. 

    They won’t do anything based on echoes and wails on internet forums. The changes reflect the nature and size of the problem. Deal with it. 

    I’ve been using a MacBook Pro seven days a week for two years. I have not experienced any of the problems being yelled about, but then I wash, keep my work area clean and I can touch type, so I could an outlier. 

    The fact that Apple has not increased the travel is also not a surprise. Apple’s younger and future customers are accustomed to typing on flat surfaces, so I’m not expecting a change in direction. 



    Yeah I don't think this is as big of a problem as everyone is making it out to be. Just because people yell loud doesn't mean it's a bigger issue. At my work, we have tons of 2016 and newer MacBook Pros and we've had exactly ONE person come and ask about a key not working which was resolved by compressed air blowing out under a key. They go everywhere including around the office which is dusty, people eat at their desks, they take them outside, etc. You know, everyday general usage. 
    radarthekat
  • Reply 46 of 47
    kruegdudekruegdude Posts: 340member
    ndnyc said:
    Hey Roger, unless you’re a keyboard designer with decades of experience, you have absolutely no basis for making a judgment as to whether these changes are going to “do much.” It makes you and AI look like idiots and trolls. When you’re dealing with “dust” particles causing keyboard failures, will changing the materials from one polymer to another make a difference? I don’t know and neither do you. I’m as frustrated with these keyboards as anyone, but announcing in the headline that the changes don’t look like they’re going to do much is really disingenuous.
    We do have people we talk to, and I have a degree in physical chemistry with a minor in material science, following a eight-year tour as a reactor chemist in the US Navy. 

    So, we're comfortable in saying so. It's also pretty telling that the 2019 model is already listed on the four-year REA for the keyboard.
    Impressive and neat. One thing though, and I’m trying more to stay out of the criticize the author but, the “pretty telling” comment strikes me as damned if they do and damned if they don’t. I saw it more as Apple trying to engender confidence and reduced risk in the new keyboards by saying even if we’re wrong we’ll fix it on our dime.
  • Reply 47 of 47
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,405member
    I have no problem with AI's assessment. The way it's worded is simply an honest and informed opinion based on their assessment of the small tweaks that Apple has made to address a problem that has a very low, but still unacceptable, failure rate. AI's statement is in no way a damning rebuke of Apple's actions to improve their product. From a qualitative standpoint, it's a very tame assessment, not quite, but close to a "meh."

    In my opinion, when you're troubleshooting a problem and trying to mitigate an issue the worst thing you can do is to make radical changes to multiple things all at the same time. Worse yet, blow up the whole design and start over. That puts you back at square one and you live through another cycle of iterative refinement with the redesign. I do think there are some folks who feel that the current butterfly keyboard is a design failure and will continue view all refinement steps taken to drive the failure rates on the current design to levels equal to or lower than the preceding generation design as unacceptable, regardless of observed failure rates in the field.

    Like it or not, Apple is taking a data driven approach, both from a reliability perspective and now from a support cost perspective to decide what their next move will be. Perhaps they do have a successor already in the design pipeline and are crunching through the numbers relative to where they expect the current design, with its current and planned incremental tweaks, to land. The data will tell Apple when to make their next move, not vocal minority opinion.
    edited May 2019
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