Happy with US actions so far

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Now that the war has started, I'm happy with the following:



1. The calculated targeting of Saddam Hussein as top priority.

2. The delay in aggressive tatics while Saddam's survival is in question.



If Saddam Hussein (and his sons) have indeed been killed or their command disabled, then we can get out of their very quickly indeed. Let us hope this is the case, and that his generals are not independent or aggressive (or stupid) enough to continue to fight or do anything rash.



By the way, anyone know if there are independent (non-US) observers in each of the special weapons detection units?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 37
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    It's not a matter of us getting out of there, it's a matter of us not needing to wage war.



    We need to be there to maintain regional security after his ouster. Lots of angry folks with guns around there. Our presence as peace-keepers will be absolutely vital in the formation of a post-Saddam Iraqi government.
  • Reply 2 of 37
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton



    A violent action is something that not only needs a majority of support to justify, but a vast majority. You are in the minority here. You don't have "balls" for supporting a globally unwelcome war. You only have arrogance.




    tonton in theory you might have a point as does groverat.



    Let me just take you off course a little and ask...



    What if there is a God... if so what does God think about "violent action"



    I only bring this to the table to expand the discussion a tad for those who remain on each side of this polar issue.



    It is just something to read and wonder about...



    Jeremiah 50 vs 28-46

    Quote:

    28 Listen to the people who have escaped from Babylon, as they declare in Jerusalem how the LORD our God has taken vengeance against those who destroyed his Temple. 29 "Send out a call for archers to come to Babylon. Surround the city so none can escape. Do to her as she has done to others, for she has defied the LORD, the Holy One of Israel. 30 Her young men will fall in the streets and die. Her warriors will all be killed," says the LORD. 31 "See, I am your enemy, O proud people," says the Lord, the LORD Almighty. "Your day of reckoning has arrived. 32 O land of pride, you will stumble and fall, and no one will raise you up. For I will light a fire in the cities of Babylon that will burn everything around them."



    33 And now the LORD Almighty says this: "The people of Israel and Judah have been wronged. Their captors hold them and refuse to let them go. 34 But the one who redeems them is strong. His name is the LORD Almighty. He will defend them and give them rest again in Israel. But the people of Babylon ? there will be no rest for them! 35 "The sword of destruction will strike the Babylonians," says the LORD. "It will strike the people of Babylon ? her princes and wise men, too. 36 And when it strikes her wise counselors, they will become fools! When it strikes her mightiest warriors, panic will seize them! 37 When it strikes her horses and chariots, her allies from other lands will become as weak as women. When it strikes her treasures, they all will be plundered. 38 It will even strike her water supply, causing it to dry up. And why? Because the whole land is filled with idols, and the people are madly in love with them. 39 "Soon this city of Babylon will be inhabited by ostriches and jackals. It will be a home for the wild animals of the desert. Never again will people live there; it will lie desolate forever. 40 I will destroy it just as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns," says the LORD. "No one will live there anymore. 41 "Look! A great army is marching from the north! A great nation and many kings are rising against you from far-off lands. 42 They are fully armed for slaughter. They are cruel and show no mercy. As they ride forward, the noise of their army is like a roaring sea. They are marching in battle formation to destroy you, Babylon. 43 The king of Babylon has received reports about the enemy, and he is weak with fright. Fear and pain have gripped him, like that of a woman about to give birth. 44 "I will come like a lion from the thickets of the Jordan, leaping on the sheep in the pasture. I will chase Babylon from its land, and I will appoint the leader of my choice. For who is like me, and who can challenge me? What ruler can oppose my will?" 45 Listen to the LORD's plans against Babylon and the land of the Babylonians. Even little children will be dragged off, and their homes will be empty. 46 The earth will shake with the noise of Babylon's fall, and her cry of despair will be heard around the world."





    Did you notice this:



    Quote:

    A great nation and many kings are rising against you from far-off lands.



    Or this:



    Quote:

    I will chase Babylon from its land, and I will appoint the leader of my choice.





    I thought it was interesting.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 3 of 37
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Are you going to disagree with what I said or just post another anti-war rant?



    Do you think a military presence isn't required to make sure no major conflicts occur within Iraq?



    You're acting like a wind-up toy.
  • Reply 4 of 37
    trevormtrevorm Posts: 841member
    Umm Just a thought - A little off topic too!



    Do you know what scares me? (Well mabey not scares me) What happens if the war does not get Saddam and he starts an attack or act of terrorisim of some western country like America.



    Will this war end even if Saddam isnt wiped out?
  • Reply 5 of 37
    Quote:

    What if there is a God... if so what does God think about "violent action"



    I only bring this to the table to expand the discussion a tad for those who remain on each side of this polar issue.



    It is just something to read and wonder about...



    Jeremiah 50 vs 28-46





    You're assuming of course that if there is a god and his viewpoint is relevant that he happens to be your Christian God. Perhaps you can connect some of your favorite passages from the Koran to the issue at hand for us Fellowship. Or toss out some bones from Vishnu. Where would Buddha stand while sitting? Thanks in advance.
  • Reply 6 of 37
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    We need to be there to maintain regional security after his ouster. Lots of angry folks with guns around there. Our presence as peace-keepers will be absolutely vital in the formation of a post-Saddam Iraqi government.



    What?! Peace-keepers with MOABs and nuclear-powered tomahawks? What the hell are you saying about post-Saddam governments? Do you mean the government that will be approved by the White House to look after Iraq when American oil kings divide it according to their market share? It is occupation, my friends. A lousy, bastardly and bloody one. Who will arrest Bush and Blair for their military crimes?
  • Reply 7 of 37
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    Let's hope Saddam is dead. Can you agree with that?



    Tonton, what awful thing did Saddam do to you that you should wish his death? Or, maybe, you are just so-o-o evil?
  • Reply 8 of 37
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    Now you're forgetting that this Christian God is the same God od Judaea and the God of Mohammud.



    I must say for me at least Mohammud and God are not even on the same page.



    I have no problem with people who choose to believe in any religion. That's a given.



    Is the Christian God the God of Mohammud?... That is far to be seen.



    Believe what you want.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 9 of 37
    stunnedstunned Posts: 1,096member
    I dun know about God, but I do want Saddam dead.



    Maybe the recent atypical pnenumemia will find its way to Saddam. Solve a lot of things doesn't it!
  • Reply 10 of 37
    Quote:

    Now you're forgetting that this Christian God is the same God od Judaea and the God of Mohammud. And if I'm not mistaken, all three of those faiths have followed the parable of Babylon as truth.



    I'm not forgetting that in the least. However I am not aware of the extent that this particular selection "overlaps" those three religions. That may well be the case here, or may not, I dunno. Nevertheless the point remains that Fellowship was quick to assume a certain set of beliefs as the relevant ones to the issue of God, not just for himself but for other people. Which is one of the many reasons why he is so annoying.
  • Reply 11 of 37
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    Do you know anything about Islam? Mohammud is a prophet. His God is the God of Abraham. He taught the word of the Old Testament.



    You must realize that I believe that Muhammud is a fraud and attempted to hijack truth and infuse it with deception. If I were a follower of Islam I might not see it that way but again I am Christian.



    Study Muhammud and you tell me who he was.



    I submit he was a nutcase.. We all have the right to disagree. I only submit what I believe.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 12 of 37
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    So did the majority of people in the US, outside of Republicans.



    I just heard this on CNN:

    Outside of people who are alive, EVERY PERSON ON EARTH IS DEAD.



    Astonishing.

  • Reply 13 of 37
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    So I take that all to mean that you don't dispute my actual posts in this thread?
  • Reply 14 of 37
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    Now that the war has started, I'm happy with the following:



    1. The calculated targeting of Saddam Hussein as top priority.

    2. The delay in aggressive tatics while Saddam's survival is in question.



    If Saddam Hussein (and his sons) have indeed been killed or their command disabled, then we can get out of their very quickly indeed. Let us hope this is the case, and that his generals are not independent or aggressive (or stupid) enough to continue to fight or do anything rash.



    By the way, anyone know if there are independent (non-US) observers in each of the special weapons detection units?




    Kidding aside, yeah, I've been surprised (and impressed, I guess) by the strategy so far. We could have gone right in there looking for ass to kick and shit to blow up, but it seems like the entire war plan has been designed, and is being executed, to end this war victoriously with as little blood as possile on both sides. And so far it sounds like it's been executed very skillfully. Time will tell.



    Wouldn't it be the ultimate expression of American power, though, to demonstrate that not only can we destroy your government with few/no casualties of our own, but we can destroy your government with few casualties to YOU, too? In a lot of ways, that would be even more frightening to a hostile government than the kill-and-destroy talents we demonstrated in 1991.
  • Reply 15 of 37
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Towel

    it seems like the entire war plan has been designed, and is being executed, to end this war victoriously with as little blood as possile on both sides. And so far it sounds like it's been executed very skillfully.



    Imagine some foreign military forces waging a victorous war in the USA, skillfully dropping 9-tons bombs on New York/Las Vegas/etc. Do you still support war?

    Quote:

    Wouldn't it be the ultimate expression of American power, though, to demonstrate that not only can we destroy your government with few/no casualties of our own, but we can destroy your government with few casualties to YOU, too?



    So, I guess, the goal is not to establish another government, free Iraqis from oil and life, but to demonstrate the ability to throw any government and destroy any country? Is the goal to threaten all the world? You scare me. Very nazi-like.
  • Reply 16 of 37
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    Costique, I think you're saying that war is always wrong, right? Well, I'd definitely have to disagree with that.



    The only difference between people and animals is that animals kill each other mostly for food, and people, mostly for money. Yes, I am sure that war is always wrong.

    Quote:

    And regarding taking Saddam out, imagine if we had the power during WWII to go in and blow up Hitler before everything else happened. Wouldn't the world have been a better place for it?



    If you started that war, you would be an aggressor. And, fighting in another country, you would be responsible for innocents' deaths. Since nobody can precisely predict the future, nobody would actually thank you for that. Except, of course, for those who could gain more money, power and resources as a result. Don't compare Hitler with Saddam now because the latter cannot attack the USA. And never attempted to.

    Quote:

    Unlike starting the war in general, we do have international consensus that Saddam should be removed from power... I shudder to think how the international community will feel if we don't find any WMD, though.



    The inspectors would have already found WMD if they still existed. Now Iraq doesn't even have enough bullets to defend themselves, so I can't imagine how Iraq can be a threat to the world. 10 years of sanctions have naturally disarmed the regime.

    Note that I didn't elaborate on moral aspects of the war.
  • Reply 17 of 37
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    My main worry is that the smoother this war goes, the shorter the time will be before the next war.



    So while I wish for a short war, with few casualities. I fear the easier this war goes, the further down into the sheit Bush and his hawks will drag this region, the world and the UN.



    I fear this will ultimatly push the EU to pit itself as a compeeting force to the US.



    Guess we'll have to see how soon the Bush administration starts complaining about the Iranian nuclear program.
  • Reply 18 of 37
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by New

    I fear the easier this war goes, the further down into the sheit Bush and his hawks will drag this region, the world and the UN.



    I fear this will ultimatly push the EU to pit itself as a compeeting force to the US.



    Guess we'll have to see how soon the Bush administration starts complaining about the Iranian nuclear program.




    It depends on which part of the world Bush wants to conquer. I bet he'd like to have it all, but it's too expensive even for the USA.
  • Reply 19 of 37
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by costique

    It depends on which part of the world Bush wants to conquer. I bet he'd like to have it all, but it's too expensive even for the USA.



    I think the Bush administration have been quite clear on their intentions for the middle-east region. They don't have the balls to go after North Korea, and it wouldn't fit in with their agenda anyway.



    North Korea really isn't a big treat exept as an exporter of weapons to other countries. It always pays to let one of the badguys off the hook. In cowboy terminology. (which is considered real cool these days).
  • Reply 20 of 37
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by New

    I think the Bush administration have been quite clear on their intentions for the middle-east region. They don't have the balls to go after North Korea, and it wouldn't fit in with their agenda anyway.



    North Korea really isn't a big treat exept as an exporter of weapons to other countries. It always pays to let one of the badguys off the hook. In cowboy terminology. (which is considered real cool these days).




    Very cool indeed. Let's attack countries which can't defend themselves.
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