Its possible that Apple could ship a revision of 10.2.x which supports the 970, with no support for 64-bit applications. This would allow them to ship the new super-fast hardware without delivering 10.3 at the same time. They probably have this ready as a contingency in case there are severe problems that delay the delivery of the full 64-bit OS. My guess is (still) that we'll see the new hardware + OS arrive in August or September.
Its possible that Apple could ship a revision of 10.2.x which supports the 970, with no support for 64-bit applications. This would allow them to ship the new super-fast hardware without delivering 10.3 at the same time. They probably have this ready as a contingency in case there are severe problems that delay the delivery of the full 64-bit OS. My guess is (still) that we'll see the new hardware + OS arrive in August or September.
I agree with you, Programmer.
However Apple's trend since Steve's return has been to make new ideas and changes to the platform as brain-free as possible.
I think from a satanic-marketing perspective that:
PowerMac G4 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 64bit apps .
Is too much for us simple purchasers to get our heads around.
They would much rather see us dazzled by:
PowerMac G4 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 64bit apps.
However with slow developer support (and let's be honest they're a bit pants, consider Quark!) I think you're more likely that they'll settle for:
PowerMac G4 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 64bit apps .
With a huge media blitz on the 64 bit supercomputer power of the new PM 970 with Mac OS X the worlds first 64bit Desktop OS, with a nice extra of the 32-64 bit compatibiltiy to make up for no actual shippping 64bit photoshop or office, all wrapped up in a nice simple advert with a smooth reassuring american voice to make us docile....
With Apple rescheduling WWDC for June to showcase 10.3 Panther for developpers, we should have 10.3 ready in august/september for customers long 64 bits Powermacs...
What I am wondering is if Apple is gonna give 10.3 to developpers at WWDC : it should be 32 bits version, unless Apple want the developpers admiring the CD until Powermac 970 are released...
So why not a 32 bits only Beta version of Panther and a 64 bits final one ?
I'm trying to figure out why Apple would delay WWDC due to Panther. If they are going to show a pre-release then does it really matter how early a pre-release they use? These are developers, after all, and they've given developers pre-alpha previews before. Is it because they want to have preview hardware? I'm sure they have had prototype 970s for some time now, and if its just a developer preview then it doesn't really matter how early the hardware is -- its actually better the more different it is from the final shipping hardware. If you are showing pre-release stuff, is it worth delaying an enormous event by a month to show slightly less pre-release stuff?! I don't think so... so why else delay the show, unless you are ready to ship? Nah.... couldn't be.
Maybe the delay of the show on the grounds of Panther is to allow Apple to give out a 32 and 64bit version to developers. I would have thought this bodes extremely well for a late summer release of 970 powered Macs...
Alternatively it's just an excuse to put the date back and the real reason is that they want to have 970 boxes to preview under NDA.
Confirmed: New PowerMac Motherboards To Use PPC 970
A source inside one of the three OEM manufacturing companies now preparing bids on producing the two next generation PowerMac motherboards offered additional information about the new boards late Thursday.
According to our source, the new motherboards are designed around the IBM PPC 970 processor, with one board being a single processor design, and the other running two processors. This source states that he has seen and inspected pre-production board samples populated with the PPC 970 chips. Additionally, the bid deadline for constructing these boards was reaffirmed as March 28th, only one-week from today."
Maybe the delay of the show on the grounds of Panther is to allow Apple to give out a 32 and 64bit version to developers. I would have thought this bodes extremely well for a late summer release of 970 powered Macs...
Alternatively it's just an excuse to put the date back and the real reason is that they want to have 970 boxes to preview under NDA.
I agree, but I also thought of this:
Since the PPC 970 doesn't run unmodified 32-bit OS's (does not require a large modification though), maybe Apple needs that extra month to complete the transition to 64-bit OS X. They can't really show PPC970's unless they have a (prefereably well-working) 64-bit OS, and they will probably want to have new hardware (the 970) to either show spesific features of the OS (that requires the 970, but hopefully not), or something that the 970 helps alot. Maybe they just want to be sure they have both the 970 and 64-bit Panther, tested and complete for either shipping, or other reasons.
I'm trying to figure out why Apple would delay WWDC due to Panther. If they are going to show a pre-release then does it really matter how early a pre-release they use? These are developers, after all, and they've given developers pre-alpha previews before. Is it because they want to have preview hardware? I'm sure they have had prototype 970s for some time now, and if its just a developer preview then it doesn't really matter how early the hardware is -- its actually better the more different it is from the final shipping hardware. If you are showing pre-release stuff, is it worth delaying an enormous event by a month to show slightly less pre-release stuff?! I don't think so... so why else delay the show, unless you are ready to ship? Nah.... couldn't be.
Could it?
Could it be something else, not only 10.3 on 970? Something so important that a month makes sense? Or could it be so that Apple hasn't even started working on 10.3?
Could it be something else, not only 10.3 on 970? Something so important that a month makes sense? Or could it be so that Apple hasn't even started working on 10.3?
Heh, some people are eternally pessimistic. 10.3 is going to take a lot longer to build than from now until June, they will have had to start it pretty much as soon as Jaguar shipped. The incremental improvements in Jaguar are just the changes made in parallel to both branches of their codebase.
Apple has gotten quite good with their software releases in the last couple of years, I don't think such negativity is called for.
Maybe Apple is delaying not because of 10.3 but because they want a 64 bit app to show off how great it is. Maybe a 64 bit preview of final cut pro or some other baseless speculation type thing.
I do not really understand why people are in a panic with Mac OS 10.3 needing to be 64 bit code allowing it to be shown on a 970. You are forgetting that Apple is very good at backwards engineering.
There will no doubt be a version of Mac OS 10.3 that runs on current Mac's and Apple has not stated otherwise that it will be running (or previewing in this case) on anything more than just that: hardware that is currently shipping!
This move creates a MUCH higher set of expectations for the developer community and is trying to tell more folks to come out because it will be worth their time, all without saying anything definite.
I'm trying to figure out why Apple would delay WWDC due to Panther. . . . <snip> . . . I don't think so... so why else delay the show, unless you are ready to ship? Nah.... couldn't be.
'Ron Okamoto, Apple's vice president of Worldwide Developer Relations. "Moving to June ensures that every developer will leave the event with a copy of Panther in their hands." '.
So, as you said Programmer, "Nah.... couldn't be".
It's also possible that Apple wasn't getting a lot of people signing up and/or there were complaints about no Panther preview. So they moved it back in order to have a beta to give out, and in turn get more developers to show up.
Although I'm thinking in line with eWeek that Apple is positioning WWDC as the new summer Macworld. At least in the sense that it will be the show that has the Jobs keynote.
John
P.S. To that guy who linked that PDF file, no that's not the presentation we were given.
It's also possible that Apple wants to have production 970's to run 10.3 in all it's 64 bit glory, while taking orders for the first ones off the production lines to give the developers priority orders before MWNY's unvailing of the 970 for "the rest of us".
"this is the year TI expects to achieve the 30 percent per-chip cost savings promised by 300-mm manufacturing"
And for those concerned about IBM's ability to meet demand:
"By year's end, IBM may be running 15,000 to 18,000 of the 300-mm wafers per month, filling its first module at Fishkill as part of its emphasis on high-end foundry manufacturing."
Comments
Originally posted by Programmer
Its possible that Apple could ship a revision of 10.2.x which supports the 970, with no support for 64-bit applications. This would allow them to ship the new super-fast hardware without delivering 10.3 at the same time. They probably have this ready as a contingency in case there are severe problems that delay the delivery of the full 64-bit OS. My guess is (still) that we'll see the new hardware + OS arrive in August or September.
I agree with you, Programmer.
However Apple's trend since Steve's return has been to make new ideas and changes to the platform as brain-free as possible.
I think from a satanic-marketing perspective that:
PowerMac G4 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 64bit apps .
Is too much for us simple purchasers to get our heads around.
They would much rather see us dazzled by:
PowerMac G4 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 64bit apps.
However with slow developer support (and let's be honest they're a bit pants, consider Quark!) I think you're more likely that they'll settle for:
PowerMac G4 - 32bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 32bit apps then...
PowerMac 970 - 64bit OS, 64bit apps .
With a huge media blitz on the 64 bit supercomputer power of the new PM 970 with Mac OS X the worlds first 64bit Desktop OS, with a nice extra of the 32-64 bit compatibiltiy to make up for no actual shippping 64bit photoshop or office, all wrapped up in a nice simple advert with a smooth reassuring american voice to make us docile....
Cynical? Moi?....
What I am wondering is if Apple is gonna give 10.3 to developpers at WWDC : it should be 32 bits version, unless Apple want the developpers admiring the CD until Powermac 970 are released...
So why not a 32 bits only Beta version of Panther and a 64 bits final one ?
Could it?
Originally posted by Programmer
Could it?
Just an opinion...but...
Maybe the delay of the show on the grounds of Panther is to allow Apple to give out a 32 and 64bit version to developers. I would have thought this bodes extremely well for a late summer release of 970 powered Macs...
Alternatively it's just an excuse to put the date back and the real reason is that they want to have 970 boxes to preview under NDA.
"March 21, 2003
Confirmed: New PowerMac Motherboards To Use PPC 970
A source inside one of the three OEM manufacturing companies now preparing bids on producing the two next generation PowerMac motherboards offered additional information about the new boards late Thursday.
According to our source, the new motherboards are designed around the IBM PPC 970 processor, with one board being a single processor design, and the other running two processors. This source states that he has seen and inspected pre-production board samples populated with the PPC 970 chips. Additionally, the bid deadline for constructing these boards was reaffirmed as March 28th, only one-week from today."
-Spacemonk
Originally posted by robster
Maybe the delay of the show on the grounds of Panther is to allow Apple to give out a 32 and 64bit version to developers. I would have thought this bodes extremely well for a late summer release of 970 powered Macs...
Alternatively it's just an excuse to put the date back and the real reason is that they want to have 970 boxes to preview under NDA.
I agree, but I also thought of this:
Since the PPC 970 doesn't run unmodified 32-bit OS's (does not require a large modification though), maybe Apple needs that extra month to complete the transition to 64-bit OS X. They can't really show PPC970's unless they have a (prefereably well-working) 64-bit OS, and they will probably want to have new hardware (the 970) to either show spesific features of the OS (that requires the 970, but hopefully not), or something that the 970 helps alot. Maybe they just want to be sure they have both the 970 and 64-bit Panther, tested and complete for either shipping, or other reasons.
Originally posted by Programmer
I'm trying to figure out why Apple would delay WWDC due to Panther. If they are going to show a pre-release then does it really matter how early a pre-release they use? These are developers, after all, and they've given developers pre-alpha previews before. Is it because they want to have preview hardware? I'm sure they have had prototype 970s for some time now, and if its just a developer preview then it doesn't really matter how early the hardware is -- its actually better the more different it is from the final shipping hardware. If you are showing pre-release stuff, is it worth delaying an enormous event by a month to show slightly less pre-release stuff?! I don't think so... so why else delay the show, unless you are ready to ship? Nah.... couldn't be.
Could it?
Could it be something else, not only 10.3 on 970? Something so important that a month makes sense? Or could it be so that Apple hasn't even started working on 10.3?
Originally posted by costique
Could it be something else, not only 10.3 on 970? Something so important that a month makes sense? Or could it be so that Apple hasn't even started working on 10.3?
Heh, some people are eternally pessimistic. 10.3 is going to take a lot longer to build than from now until June, they will have had to start it pretty much as soon as Jaguar shipped. The incremental improvements in Jaguar are just the changes made in parallel to both branches of their codebase.
Apple has gotten quite good with their software releases in the last couple of years, I don't think such negativity is called for.
Originally posted by Programmer
Apple has gotten quite good with their software releases in the last couple of years, I don't think such negativity is called for.
I'm with you programmer, this can only really be good news.
There will no doubt be a version of Mac OS 10.3 that runs on current Mac's and Apple has not stated otherwise that it will be running (or previewing in this case) on anything more than just that: hardware that is currently shipping!
Originally posted by AirSluf
This move creates a MUCH higher set of expectations for the developer community and is trying to tell more folks to come out because it will be worth their time, all without saying anything definite.
I think this line on the WWDC page says it all:
This is the one you don't want to miss!
Originally posted by Flounder
I think this line on the WWDC page says it all:
I believe they said that last year too...
Originally posted by Flounder
I think this line on the WWDC page says it all:
Maybe because of PANTHER ?
Originally posted by Programmer
I'm trying to figure out why Apple would delay WWDC due to Panther. . . . <snip> . . . I don't think so... so why else delay the show, unless you are ready to ship? Nah.... couldn't be.
Could it?
I read in MacCentral that (quoting from article):
'Ron Okamoto, Apple's vice president of Worldwide Developer Relations. "Moving to June ensures that every developer will leave the event with a copy of Panther in their hands." '.
So, as you said Programmer, "Nah.... couldn't be".
>>>But I can sure hope!
Although I'm thinking in line with eWeek that Apple is positioning WWDC as the new summer Macworld. At least in the sense that it will be the show that has the Jobs keynote.
John
P.S. To that guy who linked that PDF file, no that's not the presentation we were given.
...
Two interesting parts:
For those concerned about costs:
"this is the year TI expects to achieve the 30 percent per-chip cost savings promised by 300-mm manufacturing"
And for those concerned about IBM's ability to meet demand:
"By year's end, IBM may be running 15,000 to 18,000 of the 300-mm wafers per month, filling its first module at Fishkill as part of its emphasis on high-end foundry manufacturing."