Developers sue Apple over $99 annual fee, mandatory pricing increments of $0.99

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 57
    temperortemperor Posts: 66member
    - Your bandwidth costs and infrastructure would be more then 99 a year ...
    - You can setup your own pricing outside the store, I trust Apple with my information, not some developer that has probably all the good intentions, but not the security and scale ...

    My guess it's people with bad intentions that want to brake open the security chains ... I hope common sense will prevail, if you want open insecure cheap go android, if you want secure go iOS ... 
    chickwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 57
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    spice-boy said:
    nasserae said:
    spice-boy said:
    You guys are really too much. Always seeing every story through Apple's eyes and never considering in this case a small developer trying to get their business off the ground. 
    Let me turn this around, "What's $99 to a corporation valued at 1 Trillion dollars?"
    At least $100 million a year?! (Assuming 1 million of the 20 million registered developers account are paying). 
    And if Apple did not have developers? I'm old enough to remember when developers were leaving Apple's sinking ship, a lot of good apps moved to Windows and Apple's days were numbered. What good is the best hardware in the world if you can't do anything with it. 
    Irrelevant to your original argument "What's $99 to a corporation valued at 1 Trillion dollars?". Like I said in my reply.. at least $100 million a year. That's not "nothing". Make an argument and stick with it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 57
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    deminsd said:
    larryjw said:
    If you can't afford $99 developer fee, you're not in the business of making a profit. At best, you have a hobby not a profession.
    Not the point.  Apple has a monopoly over app distribution and the 30% piece of the pie is what is the "profit killer".  Not many businesses can take a 30% cut on profit.
    Your argument perfectly encapsulates the thinking behind these “ambulance chaser” lawsuits. No one is owed access to Apple’s developer tools OR their App Store.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 57
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    BxBorn said:
    LenardH said:
    Everything for nothing, the cost of doing business, god forbid developers had to pay rent for a brick building......$99/year and free advertising in the App Store...
    Rent would be the 30% that Apple takes, the $99 would be luxury tax charged by the building simply for allowing you to live there.
    Where are these people coming from? Are they serious? Build your own goddamn tools and store if you don’t like it.
    mwhiteFileMakerFelleruraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 57
    BxBornBxBorn Posts: 74member
    BxBorn said:
    I think the point is more around Apple abusing the fact that iOS apps can not be distributed anywhere else. It would be different if there were one or two other places an app developer could go but they can't and because of that Apple is charging a 'where else are you going to go tax". Does Apple charge 3rd party vendors who's products are sold in-stores on online a similar fee? Does Incase have to pay a shelf fee and a percentage of its sales to Apple? (honest question, I really don't know)
    Incase sells their items to Apple at wholesale, which is likely somewhere around 50% off the retail price.  Ask any software or accessory vendor if they'd rather pay Apple $99 a year and give only a 30% discount off MSRP and see if they don't jump at it.
    Isn't Apple doing both to developers? Aren't they taking the $99 and 30%?
  • Reply 46 of 57
    beowulfschmidtbeowulfschmidt Posts: 2,121member
    nasserae said:
    I remember the days when Apple announced these policies and rates more than 10 years ago. Developers couldn’t believe that they only pay 30% fee to sell apps vs 50% to 60% others were charging. 
    Yup.  And Apple could use a model similar to what Amazon Web Services does, i.e. charge you for every little thing you do.  
    Want to upload your app?  Charge.  
    Want to upload a new version?  Charge.  
    Want to have it appear in the store?  Charge.  
    Want to read your feedback?  Charge.  
    Want us to feature it anywhere?  Charge.  
    Etc, etc, ad nauseam.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 57
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,152member
    spice-boy said:
    You guys are really too much. Always seeing every story through Apple's eyes and never considering in this case a small developer trying to get their business off the ground. 
    Let me turn this around, "What's $99 to a corporation valued at 1 Trillion dollars?"
    Unbelievable.  Do they not tell the story of the little red hen in school these days, or is a special mendicant version where at the end the little red hen is crucified?
    edited June 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 57
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    nasserae said:
    I remember the days when Apple announced these policies and rates more than 10 years ago. Developers couldn’t believe that they only pay 30% fee to sell apps vs 50% to 60% others were charging. 
    Yup.  And Apple could use a model similar to what Amazon Web Services does, i.e. charge you for every little thing you do.  
    Want to upload your app?  Charge.  
    Want to upload a new version?  Charge.  
    Want to have it appear in the store?  Charge.  
    Want to read your feedback?  Charge.  
    Want us to feature it anywhere?  Charge.  
    Etc, etc, ad nauseam.
    Yep. And that’s Amazon’s right to run their business as they see fit, same as Apple.
    beowulfschmidt
  • Reply 49 of 57
    looplessloopless Posts: 325member
    If guess that if Apple just asked they would get a petition immediately signed by 90% of developers saying "don't change a thing! the current App Store and developer fees are a freaking bargain".
    I am paying $99 for what is really just a hobby - and $99 is just about the right amount to keep out the riff-raff.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 57
    titantigertitantiger Posts: 300member
    BxBorn said:
    BxBorn said:
    I think the point is more around Apple abusing the fact that iOS apps can not be distributed anywhere else. It would be different if there were one or two other places an app developer could go but they can't and because of that Apple is charging a 'where else are you going to go tax". Does Apple charge 3rd party vendors who's products are sold in-stores on online a similar fee? Does Incase have to pay a shelf fee and a percentage of its sales to Apple? (honest question, I really don't know)
    Incase sells their items to Apple at wholesale, which is likely somewhere around 50% off the retail price.  Ask any software or accessory vendor if they'd rather pay Apple $99 a year and give only a 30% discount off MSRP and see if they don't jump at it.
    Isn't Apple doing both to developers? Aren't they taking the $99 and 30%?
    Yes.  And any hard goods seller selling their goods through Apple stores or other retailers would kill for that deal.  The devs are whining over a sweetheart arrangement.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 57
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,305member
    Did Apple somehow just stuck that $99 fee every year to Developers? Like was it free to start out for years and like a year Ago Apple added it? NNNOOOOOO! This fee has been there since day 1. This fee covers not only you creating apps, but all that goes alone with that.

    No one forced you to start writing apps for iOS. The FEE was there DAY 1. This is beyond laughable. It's like they just want to take, take, take from Apple, free or slim profits, what THEY themselves think Apple should start charging.

    If you don't like it, stop paying Apple, pull your app, and go to Android which has 80% of the market!!! 80% is far larger than 20%. 20% is like pocket change anyway right?

    You can also go out and write your own OS and do anything with it that you want. Give it away for free like Google. Well not really free, but you can be more free than Google. These lawsuits are getting silly.

    Maybe Apple should charge what they did back in the older days. Just take a 50-60% cut!!! These people seem to have a short term memory. They seem to just want things handed to them. They're trying to compare what Apple's business model is to Google's which are not remotely the same. Google and Amazon by the way take the SAME 30% cut.

    I hope they all LOSE. Unless you can show me a picture of someone holding a gun to your head to force you to develop for Apple and iOS. Because $99 developer fee and 30% cut has always been there since day 1. You were completely free to ignore iOS and develop for Android only. Android who has 80% of the global market. That's a fact jack!
    edited June 2019 FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 57
    Nekminit..... no $99 annual fee but Xcode now costs $600 as an initial purchase + $99 fee to update to the latest SDK's annually.
    edited June 2019 jrg_ukwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 57
    revenantrevenant Posts: 621member
    apple has a garden. a well kept garden. it is their garden. they built it, kept it, sustained it. if you want in, there is a fee--and apple will maintain your plot in the garden.

    apple checks your code to keep their customers safe, and apple gives you the best advertising, search for your product, ratings for your product and the loads easier swift language for building your project. all for $99 and 30% cut. 

    feel free to go back to C++ and pay a company to advertise your project and pay for server traffic for housing/distributing your app.

    when we customers get tired of your busted ass apps and the malware that threatens to take over our privacy, we will rate your app and the advertising company and the distribution design as rubbish and will refuse to go down that road twice. let us know how good things are then.
    edited June 2019 FileMakerFellerjrg_ukbeowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 57
    croprcropr Posts: 1,122member
    Being an app developer, I have read a lot of BS in these posts.  Just to summarize :
    • I am happy to pay an annual fee of 99$.  It does not kill my profit
    • The strict business rules of the App Store (30% cut, compulsory app distribution, no cross selling allowed, no temporary discounts, no links to my sites, ...) are really killing my profits
    • The App Store is not a retailer for my software, so don't compare it with other retailers.  In fact a survey in 2018 among my customers showed that exactly zero of them discovered one of my apps via the App Store.  The App Store is merely a "DHL" or "UPS" service that sends an "app parcel" to my customer. 
    • This parcel delivery service is a monopoly.
    • Hosting a secured distribution channel just costs peanuts.  For hosting some web services that I have developed,  I spend less than 0,01% of the turnover of the web services.
    • Using a secure third party payment provider (I use Ingenico), costs me between 2.5 and 3% of the payment amount
    • Don't confuse or link the app approval process with the App Store distribution.  They are not related.  It is not difficult to come up with a solution where Apple is still approving an app, while the distribution is done via a third party.  Apple can easily stamp an approved app with a digital signature that is validated during installation
    • Business wise I don't always have the choice to leave out iOS as a target platform. I have developed an e-voting app for annual meetings of large NPOs and the app only make sense if all members of the NPO (both iOS users and Android users) can use the voting app.    If would have zero sales if the app would be iOS only or Android only.
    • The 30% cut is unreasonable high versus the value I get in return, so I am trying to avoid anywhere the cut by clever business tactics.  E.g. I made the e-voting app  free of charge but  I invoice the NPO directly.   If Apple would charge less than 10% I could reconsider my approach.   For me the real added value of the App Store lies  between 5 and 8%

  • Reply 55 of 57
    wlymwlym Posts: 102member
    spice-boy said:
    You guys are really too much. Always seeing every story through Apple's eyes and never considering in this case a small developer trying to get their business off the ground. 
    Let me turn this around, "What's $99 to a corporation valued at 1 Trillion dollars?"
    $99 multiplied by how many developers? Every year.

    If $99 prevents a business getting off the ground then the business has no business being in business. 
  • Reply 56 of 57
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,275member
    deminsd said:
    Not the point.  Apple has a monopoly over app distribution and the 30% piece of the pie is what is the "profit killer".  Not many businesses can take a 30% cut on profit.
    And we have a winner for the new dumbest thing said on the forum!

    So businesses that have to pay for credit processing (that's 2-3 percent right there), employees, health care, rent, wholesale merch costs and other things Apple's App Store takes care of for them a) pay less than 30 percent of their income for this and b) can't survive otherwise?

    Um ... you're not in business. I can tell.
    revenant
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