You misunderstood my last statement - I don’t have a good solution for applying search warrants in the era of digital devices and encryption and how to balance legitimate searches with digital privacy.
The questions you raise are actually easier to deal with. I’m not arguing that there are not police who abuse their power or that unreasonable searches don’t take place; they undoubtedly do. They also get thrown out by the courts on a regular basis. The fact that that may mean guilty people go free is frustrating, but i’s also a price we pay for personal freedoms. It’s all a balance that must be struck. I haven’t seen anyone here suggesting that people ‘capitulate for the greater good,’ unless you take my statement about police having a legal right to perform searches as such. In order for police to do their jobs, they need to have a certain amount of power. If no one was required to ‘capitulate’ to them in any circumstance we would essentially have anarchy.
Like I said, in the United States, we all have certain guaranteed rights and freedoms, but those are not unlimited. The scope and degree of those limitations is a fundamental part of our legal and legislative bodies’ duties.
Totally agree with this, also not sure why you’re getting grief about not knowing the solution... Acknowledging there’s an issue is how we can begin to understand and ultimately solve these complex problems. So far almost every article I see about this, usually throws in a case about some child pornography or some violent offenders having evidence on their phones that’s needed to prosecute them. There has to be a balance in those situations VS the millions of us that are not engaging in craziness. And NO, simply saying “I have nothing to hide so i don’t care” is not ok. Searching thru my own electronic devices, you’d be pretty bored, that doesn’t mean I don’t have a right to my sovereign privacy.
The stories border searches while traveling also concern me. I don’t know the solution in those cases. I believe authorities should have additional methods of screaning travelers and a duty to keep our borders safe, but it’s seeming to be an over reach in the way that it’s currently applied. You’re not searching just what I have on me, you’re searching my entire life...
I think the core of issue in all of these is the fact that our devices hold an unpresidented amount of personal information. Much more than ever in human history and certainly much more then what was assumed as reasonable while these laws were inacted. We were never able to travel or even roam around domestically, while carrying with us nearly every piece of communication you’ve ever had, financial records, location data, etc. Always with you, always accesible. Things that lived in a safe box or filing cabinet, are on your person 24/7/365.
I hope some day soon this gets pushed into higher courts and there can be some solid legislature passed to give law enforcement and warrant issuing judges more clear restrictions on how to handle these cases.
It also seems Apple is the single corporation putting these issues in the fore front and granting us with reasonable tools to protect ourselves. One of the many many reasons I use and will continue to use an iPhone.
And all for something that’s perfectly legal in many states.
Well... it didn't help his persona for carrying a loaded pistol in his car. Seriously. Sure, I get that THC/Pot is legal in many states now, but considering this guy's track record for getting himself in trouble with the law he should have learned something by now.
That's not the point. First of all, you don't need a permit or license in Florida to carry such a weapon. (You do need a concealed permit to carry a concealed gun). Secondly, he was properly busted by the police. They found the drugs and the gun now becomes a problem. Why do the police need anything from the phone? If he violated the law with the drugs, arrest and try him for that. End of story. The police should not get to examine our entire life when we're busted for one specific thing.
And all for something that’s perfectly legal in many states.
Well... it didn't help his persona for carrying a loaded pistol in his car. Seriously. Sure, I get that THC/Pot is legal in many states now, but considering this guy's track record for getting himself in trouble with the law he should have learned something by now.
That's not the point. First of all, you don't need a permit or license in Florida to carry such a weapon. (You do need a concealed permit to carry a concealed gun). Secondly, he was properly busted by the police. They found the drugs and the gun now becomes a problem. Why do the police need anything from the phone? If he violated the law with the drugs, arrest and try him for that. End of story. The police should not get to examine our entire life when we're busted for one specific thing.
When his mother (?) texted "OMG! Did they find it?" they had reason to believe there might be other drugs hidden and a reason to want to read the rest of his text messages.
Zero chance I’ll ever be unlocking my phone for the government. Granted I don’t plan on committing any crimes but warrant or no warrant they can kiss my backside.
Zero chance I’ll ever be unlocking my phone for the government. Granted I don’t plan on committing any crimes but warrant or no warrant they can kiss my backside.
Until you’re in customs - it’s evidently a legal twilight zone that allows customs agents to arbitrarily search without a warrant. This story bothered be, but that’s far more concerning than this story, IMO.
This has already been to the SCOTUS (Riley v California) and Chief Justice Roberts wrote the opinion- so do not expect it to change. It was 8 concur and 1 partial concur.
"We therefore decline to extend Robinson to searches of data on cell phones, and hold instead that officers must generally secure a warrant before conducting such a search."
This has already been to the SCOTUS (Riley v California) and Chief Justice Roberts wrote the opinion- so do not expect it to change. It was 8 concur and 1 partial concur.
"We therefore decline to extend Robinson to searches of data on cell phones, and hold instead that officers must generally secure a warrant before conducting such a search."
This wasn’t about searching a cell phone. It was about compelling someone to give the passcode. 5th amendment, not 4th
And all for something that’s perfectly legal in many states.
Well... it didn't help his persona for carrying a loaded pistol in his car. Seriously. Sure, I get that THC/Pot is legal in many states now, but considering this guy's track record for getting himself in trouble with the law he should have learned something by now.
Did you see how there was no handgun charge, so that means the firearm was legal.
The charge was having a handgun while committing a felony (possession of marijuana)
Its absurd that particular laws can be leveraged that way. I drove on a suspended license in my early 20s, and was charged with 4 versions of the same charge, worded slightly differently. Luckily I had the cash to bail myself out or would have spent at the least a few days, if not weeks, holed up. Good for him for standing up, 44 days is an unreasonably long time to be held for a chance to prove you are innocent. Aside from the personal struggle of being in that environment for an extended period of time, the loss to your personal life (job/family responsibilities, if you have them), can be immense and very difficult to repair.
Comments
Acknowledging there’s an issue is how we can begin to understand and ultimately solve these complex problems.
So far almost every article I see about this, usually throws in a case about some child pornography or some violent offenders having evidence on their phones that’s needed to prosecute them. There has to be a balance in those situations VS the millions of us that are not engaging in craziness. And NO, simply saying “I have nothing to hide so i don’t care” is not ok. Searching thru my own electronic devices, you’d be pretty bored, that doesn’t mean I don’t have a right to my sovereign privacy.
The stories border searches while traveling also concern me. I don’t know the solution in those cases. I believe authorities should have additional methods of screaning travelers and a duty to keep our borders safe, but it’s seeming to be an over reach in the way that it’s currently applied. You’re not searching just what I have on me, you’re searching my entire life...
I think the core of issue in all of these is the fact that our devices hold an unpresidented amount of personal information. Much more than ever in human history and certainly much more then what was assumed as reasonable while these laws were inacted. We were never able to travel or even roam around domestically, while carrying with us nearly every piece of communication you’ve ever had, financial records, location data, etc. Always with you, always accesible. Things that lived in a safe box or filing cabinet, are on your person 24/7/365.
I hope some day soon this gets pushed into higher courts and there can be some solid legislature passed to give law enforcement and warrant issuing judges more clear restrictions on how to handle these cases.
It also seems Apple is the single corporation putting these issues in the fore front and granting us with reasonable tools to protect ourselves. One of the many many reasons I use and will continue to use an iPhone.
Here is the ruling in PDF from the SCOTUS website:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-132_8l9c.pdf
"We therefore decline to extend Robinson to searches of data on cell phones, and hold instead that officers must generally secure a warrant before conducting such a search."
Good for him for standing up, 44 days is an unreasonably long time to be held for a chance to prove you are innocent.
Aside from the personal struggle of being in that environment for an extended period of time, the loss to your personal life (job/family responsibilities, if you have them), can be immense and very difficult to repair.