The TextBlade keyboard is superb, but you'll have to be patient

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  • Reply 1541 of 1615
    AnthRD said:
    I order back in 2015, canceled after a year waiting and repeated missed promises on shipping dates. At the time I order it wasn’t at all clear this was a beta product still in testing but a product ready to go. So the main criticism has been they weren’t wholly honest about the product being ready to ship in 2015. The other criticism is the way Waytools has censored any criticism on their forums and cancelling orders of customers who have had a rant about the delays or their ability to release a product. I was banned on the forums for “misrepresentation” when I tried to estimate when would finally be released (estimated 2016). They were right I was wrong, I was overly optimistic on when would be released. Look this keyboard is brilliant but when and “if” it is finally released. I don’t think it will be as successful as they may think it should be, why? Simply cause to many people have been burnt by a company that has a woefully poor customer ethos. I believe many people have been turned off by the company to consider buying TextBlade or realised in the years of waiting they don’t actually need one, now.
    Review (scanned) a bunch of your latest post on WT. I can see things they probably wouldn't like, but nothing that I'd ban or restrict someone for. But I've said that about a bunch of people. And I've also said we have some people in Treg who had been even more negative. So, yeah, that is odd.

    But we still have people criticizing WT on their forum (including me).

    I'm sure some people will never buy from the company because of these things, but I also think those will have minimal effect on whether it is a success or not. Inertia will be the biggest challenge to overcome with people being used to full size keyboards.
    idea2go_twitterAnthRD
  • Reply 1542 of 1615
    AnthRD said:
    I was banned on the forums for “misrepresentation” when I tried to estimate when would finally be released (estimated 2016). They were right I was wrong, I was overly optimistic on when would be released. 
    Wow. Mark Knighton clearly hates optimists. Thanks for sharing that perfect example of his nasty narcissistic authoritarian attitude towards his customers.

    Hopefully some brave Treg tester will soon anonymously reveal the 'top gift'. I'm hoping there's at least one out there who can understand the rationale of chipping away at some of Mark's manipulative control of the situation. If the 'gift' is known, then customers can make a more informed decision about whether to continue waiting or not, after waiting for so long already, and as a bonus, perhaps Mark might be motivated to modify his behavior in a constructive way if he no longer wields the 'carrot and stick' and simply has to be judged based on what he can, or more likely, cannot accomplish. 

    100% agree.

    I think even if they’d do get started (and I’d dearly love to be wrong and to receive my rider...), they have significantly burned a significant number of their early supporters/adopters and created a poor trust relationship. That’s a hard issue to overcome. Even then, they have had zero inertia for 4+ years, so moving out of a state of zero point energy will be possibly a bridge too far...
    AnthRDpoisednoisearkorott
  • Reply 1543 of 1615
    TongueJedTongueJed Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Just adding a reply so I can look back and laugh in a few years when it still doesn’t ship...
    weirdosmurfAnthRDalexonlinearkorott
  • Reply 1544 of 1615
    It's fun watching someone being starved of the oxygen of attention. 
    -----
    It is more or less the 10th now. Way back in in mists of late 2015, i think, between the exiles on Reddit we worked out the average amount of deadline overrun WT committed. IT averaged at about 450%. Which is to say where WT say "a week" that will be an average five and a half weeks. 

    By those figures,  if WT a manage to produce an update before Mid October that would be not even be close to their worst performance. 

    We have had another weekend testing cycle come and go and another "Monday Meeting" slide by without word. So this week is already looking doubtful. It's 11 days until 2019-06-21 which as we all know is the summer solstice and nothing else... cough cough, and we are in to the 3 month period that marks "release period"

    We have a single report of WT confirming a summer GR to a user in April 2019. I cannot currently confirm independently whether this is the case or not, however for the sake of argument that would lead to a release window ( 3 - 6 months corrected by WT estimation error bars)  of Late Jun 2020 to Jan 2022. 

    Based on the "butterfly delay" of 2015 and the "Flex PCB screw up" of 2016, I'd guess there is a new issue that WT have just touched the edges of. What happens next will be determined by whether WT think they can fix the issue. If they think they can fix it we will get a string of randomly placed "nopedates" and "Musk-Jobs" while they frantically vamp. If they don't think they can quickly fix it the they will be silent until a fix is possible which in the past has stretched into months. 

    ------

    A more reliable source, that bloke from the pub, said that one of the delays was getting otters trained which their little paws to push the Flex PCB from front to back during assembly. This was due, he says, to a global shortage of otters. He reckons you will have to clean every textblade's magnetic contacts right out of the box due to the combination of fish oil and otter fur from the assembly process. 

    We all know that otters never wash their hands properly... 

    R



    edit: correcting autocucumber


    edited June 2019 alexonlinepoisednoise
  • Reply 1545 of 1615
    Rolanbek said:
    A more reliable source, that bloke from the pub, said that one of the delays was getting otters trained which their little paws to push the Flex PCB from front to back during assembly. This was due, he says, to a global shortage of otters. He reckons you will have to clean every textblade's magnetic contacts right out of the box due to the combination of fish oil and otter fur from the assembly process. 

    We all know that otters never wash their hands properly... 

    R

    I see what's gone wrong here. The problem is that back when development began on the textblade otters were really quite easy to come by, what with the Voyageurs and all bringing them down from the North. Nowadays however the fur trade has hit hard times, and I really think WT need to consider moving to a more modern workforce. Yes, in the short-term it may introduce further delays, but MK has already shown himself with the firmware rewrite to be prepared to absorb short-term delay for long-term gain, and I think this is a perfect example of why sometimes we all need to bite the bullet and make those tough decisions, regardless of how many angry potential customers we may have. 
    Rolanbek
  • Reply 1546 of 1615
    Rolanbek said:
    It's fun watching someone being starved of the oxygen of attention. 
    I knew a comment like that would soon be made. Someone clearly referring to me but without the name. But you still have it completely wrong so I’ll help you out:

    I’ve said all along that if people post crap about me, I’ll respond. And if they do the same to someone else, I’ll respond as well. And, of course, I’ll respond to any post that I can provide information to as a Treg member or just as someone who is very familiar with all that has been covered for years on the WT forums. 

    So the past pattern has been one of you making assumptions and posting as fact. I respond and one or more of the critics  resort to the “repetition is fact” approach. Which I also respond to. Or the personal attacks claiming I work for WT, etc. which I also respond to. Cause and effect over and over. 

    So now I’m suddenly posting less. Why would that be? It isn’t your theory. It happened at the very point some critics declared they put me on “ignore”. Which meant any time they posted really ridiculous stuff, I could still respond but, since they couldn’t see the post, they weren’t running the “repetition is fact” tactic nearly as much. Nor could resort to personal attacks in response to what I said because they never see them. They get their say and I get mine. Done. Cause and effect are still in play, but the number of causes were greatly reduced. 

    Plus, when I saw the posts saying I was blocked, I opted to ignore a few posts I’d normally respond to to see how things settled. 

    So it was never about me seeking attention. Just as I always said, if there was less crap posted, I wouldn’t be posting as much in response.  

    I’ll continue to respond to any posts I want to. There now just a lot fewer of them for the reasons I gave above. 

    Having pointed this this out, now we’ll see if someone stirs things up again and then blames me. Remember, this post is the effect of you referring to me and getting it wrong. 
  • Reply 1547 of 1615
    New visitors to the WT web site are told 'what to expect' for orders placed today. Ship window: Fall. Ship time, a mere 4-7 days.

    A calendar on the WT web site indicates that....oops...if only you had ordered sooner, you would have received your Textblade already. Those of us who ordered long ago are apparently already received our Textblades for April and May (dang! if only we checked our mail more often!), June Textblades are rolling in, and July - September Textblades are coming soon!

    Then there's some sort of blue-green infographic bar graph thing going on for Oct, Nov, Dec. Maybe the blues are Dvorak Textblades, and the greens are Qwerty Textblades? Anyone care to guess? Who knows?

    The point is, this graphic, which has been on the WT web site for years, estimates your product will arrive in Nov 2019 if you order now. This is a blatant lie. Mark Knighton constructed this graphic to deceive new customers into giving him money. He is a liar and a scam artist. You will not receive your Textblade in June, July, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, or Dec of 2019, or 2020, or 2021, or 2022.

    If there is a Treg tester with a conscience out there, please pry just one of Mark's manipulation tactics out of his greedy hands by simply revealing the 'top gift' so that existing customers can make a more informed decision about whether or not to continue waiting. There is nothing unethical about revealing information that is being used as a carrot to gaslight people into leaving their money in Mark's hands. Reveal the gift, and then people can simply decide if they think it's enough to keep waiting or not.

    If it's so great, perhaps everybody will agree, and even more orders will roll in.

    If it's not so great, then perhaps the 'free gift' was just another splash of snake oil to convince people to hand over their money, and people should know about that.


  • Reply 1548 of 1615

    There is nothing unethical about revealing information
    Which would require violating the NDA. So, yeah, it is unethical. 
  • Reply 1549 of 1615
    New visitors to the WT web site are told 'what to expect' for orders placed today. Ship window: Fall. Ship time, a mere 4-7 days.

    A calendar on the WT web site indicates that....oops...if only you had ordered sooner, you would have received your Textblade already. Those of us who ordered long ago are apparently already received our Textblades for April and May (dang! if only we checked our mail more often!), June Textblades are rolling in, and July - September Textblades are coming soon!

    Then there's some sort of blue-green infographic bar graph thing going on for Oct, Nov, Dec. Maybe the blues are Dvorak Textblades, and the greens are Qwerty Textblades? Anyone care to guess? Who knows?

    The point is, this graphic, which has been on the WT web site for years, estimates your product will arrive in Nov 2019 if you order now. This is a blatant lie. Mark Knighton constructed this graphic to deceive new customers into giving him money. He is a liar and a scam artist. You will not receive your Textblade in June, July, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, or Dec of 2019, or 2020, or 2021, or 2022.


    I particularly like the “Preorder Now for Early Delivery”. I shudder to think what he considers Late Delivery to be. 
    weirdosmurfalexonline
  • Reply 1550 of 1615
    arkorottarkorott Posts: 100member
    New visitors to the WT web site are told 'what to expect' for orders placed today. Ship window: Fall. Ship time, a mere 4-7 days.

    A calendar on the WT web site indicates that....oops...if only you had ordered sooner, you would have received your Textblade already. Those of us who ordered long ago are apparently already received our Textblades for April and May (dang! if only we checked our mail more often!), June Textblades are rolling in, and July - September Textblades are coming soon!

    Then there's some sort of blue-green infographic bar graph thing going on for Oct, Nov, Dec. Maybe the blues are Dvorak Textblades, and the greens are Qwerty Textblades? Anyone care to guess? Who knows?

    The point is, this graphic, which has been on the WT web site for years, estimates your product will arrive in Nov 2019 if you order now. This is a blatant lie. Mark Knighton constructed this graphic to deceive new customers into giving him money. He is a liar and a scam artist. You will not receive your Textblade in June, July, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, or Dec of 2019, or 2020, or 2021, or 2022.


    I particularly like the “Preorder Now for Early Delivery”. I shudder to think what he considers Late Delivery to be. 
    @poisednoise ;
    You made me laugh. But jokes aside this is the availability page I mentioned a few times to be so misleading for years.

    I cannot believe there is still silence reining at WT. Something to do with the Summer Solstice date mentioned above ?
    alexonline
  • Reply 1551 of 1615
    arkorottarkorott Posts: 100member
    What keyboard is sorely missing in the following article ?

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/7/18656227/apple-ipad-pro-11-12-9-keyboard-test-review-logitech-brydge-zagg-price-specs-features

    Ah...they must have meant AVAILABLE ones...



    weirdosmurf
  • Reply 1552 of 1615
    Ethics is not black and white, juvenile opinions of certain people notwithstanding.

    Context and circumstances change. When the gift was originally offered, it was in the context of imminent release.

    In fact, it was always offered in the context of an imminent release, so in hindsight, it was always a deception.

    The purpose of the 'top gift' is not to reward early adopters. The purpose of the 'top gift' is to be a secret which Mark Knighton controls, so early adopters have a harder time deciding whether or not to leave their money in his hands.

    The 'top gift' is not a technology secret. It's not a trade secret. It will do no unjust harm to Waytools to make it known. If the gift is not so good, perhaps other customers will cancel their orders because it's not worth waiting for, but that would be perfectly fair to those customers who paid Mark Knighton a long time ago.

    Why should customers be kept in the dark for so long? It's unethical to let this secret continue to be used by Mark Knighton as a tool of manipulation.

    It's time for a Tregger with a conscience to reveal the secret 'top gift' so Mark can't use it against his customers anymore.

    weirdosmurf
  • Reply 1553 of 1615
    Interesting. Supposedly you had me on "ignore", yet here you are responding to a point I made today! I guess you didn't care for being "liberated" after all! No surprise.

    > Ethics is not black and white, juvenile opinions of certain people notwithstanding.

    What is juvenile is deciding something is ethical just because you want it.

    Context and circumstances change. When the gift was originally offered, it was in the context of imminent release.

    Nope. While release was expected to be soon, nothing about the context said, "Don't reveal the free gift unless shipping is delayed a long time".

    The 'top gift' is not a technology secret. It's not a trade secret. It will do no unjust harm to Waytools to make it known.

    Doesn't matter what kind of secret it is. The NDA doesn't allow releasing it. Amazing the excuses you come up with to advocated others behave unethically.
  • Reply 1554 of 1615
    Ethics is not black and white, juvenile opinions of certain people notwithstanding.

    Context and circumstances change. When the gift was originally offered, it was in the context of imminent release.

    In fact, it was always offered in the context of an imminent release, so in hindsight, it was always a deception.

    The purpose of the 'top gift' is not to reward early adopters. The purpose of the 'top gift' is to be a secret which Mark Knighton controls, so early adopters have a harder time deciding whether or not to leave their money in his hands.

    The 'top gift' is not a technology secret. It's not a trade secret. It will do no unjust harm to Waytools to make it known. If the gift is not so good, perhaps other customers will cancel their orders because it's not worth waiting for, but that would be perfectly fair to those customers who paid Mark Knighton a long time ago.

    Why should customers be kept in the dark for so long? It's unethical to let this secret continue to be used by Mark Knighton as a tool of manipulation.

    It's time for a Tregger with a conscience to reveal the secret 'top gift' so Mark can't use it against his customers anymore.

    You bring up an interesting point, and one I’ve felt for a long time; withholding information on what the “free gift” is removes important data on a purchasing/refund decision. It’s a valid question as to whether withholding such information is unethical.

    I also wonder whether it is unethical to enforce that particular portion of a Treg NDA... I mean, Treggers are even allowed to talk about system flaws discovered (after allowing a week for the engineers to address any issues discovered...) but the contents about a “free gift” is a verboten topic... it seems out of step...

    ...I’m not a commercial lawyer specialising in corporate/contract ethics, but it does seem a little odd to me... I also freely admit that if I knew what the “free gift” was, I may well decide to cancel my purchase for a refund, but the not knowing (i.e. lack of information...) causes difficulty making a reasonable determination on a decision based on overall value...

    ...if it’s just a bobble-head doll, then I’ll know I can go the refund route...  ;)
  • Reply 1555 of 1615
    I also wonder whether it is unethical to enforce that particular portion of a Treg NDA... I mean, Treggers are even allowed to talk about system flaws discovered (after allowing a week for the engineers to address any issues discovered...) but the contents about a “free gift” is a verboten topic... it seems out of step...
    It isn't a question of "enforcing". When people who signed the NDA behave ethically by NOT revealing it, "enforcement" doesn't even come into play. BTW, we don't have to wait a week for a discovered problem to be fixed. That was simply a request WT made. But I think it is fitting and proper - ethical even - to go along with that very reasonable request.

    I can certainly understand people wanting to know. And I can see that it could help them make a decision. But neither means it is unethical to not tell them.

    If people want to advocate to WT that they release that info, fine. They will or they won't. Their decision. But advocating that Treg members violate their word is not acceptable.
  • Reply 1556 of 1615
    Ethics is not black and white, juvenile opinions of certain people notwithstanding.

    Context and circumstances change. When the gift was originally offered, it was in the context of imminent release.

    In fact, it was always offered in the context of an imminent release, so in hindsight, it was always a deception.

    The purpose of the 'top gift' is not to reward early adopters. The purpose of the 'top gift' is to be a secret which Mark Knighton controls, so early adopters have a harder time deciding whether or not to leave their money in his hands.

    The 'top gift' is not a technology secret. It's not a trade secret. It will do no unjust harm to Waytools to make it known. If the gift is not so good, perhaps other customers will cancel their orders because it's not worth waiting for, but that would be perfectly fair to those customers who paid Mark Knighton a long time ago.

    Why should customers be kept in the dark for so long? It's unethical to let this secret continue to be used by Mark Knighton as a tool of manipulation.

    It's time for a Tregger with a conscience to reveal the secret 'top gift' so Mark can't use it against his customers anymore.

    Oh... and one thing I forgot to mention, people not subject to Waytools NDA/Treg agreement are... well... not subject to that agreement. Asking people to volunteer information is entirely up to you and since you are not subject to an agreement with Waytools, making that request has no actual ethical implications for you at all (you can get in to a can of worms about whether asking someone to commit murder is a crime - yes it is; it’s called conspiracy to commit murder...) If someone did reveal info and was sued by Waytools, I can think of plenty of lawyers who might like to take that case; but then again; possibly not if there’s no actual money in the company to pay any damages...

    If Treg members choose to answer - or not, either based on fear of having their device bricked or other punitive steps from the vendor or for any other reason whatsoever, is a matter entirely for them...  ;)
  • Reply 1557 of 1615
    weirdosmurf said:

    Oh... and one thing I forgot to mention, people not subject to Waytools NDA/Treg agreement are... well... not subject to that agreement. Asking people to volunteer information is entirely up to you and since you are not subject to an agreement with Waytools, making that request has no actual ethical implications for you at all (you can get in to a can of worms about whether asking someone to commit murder is a crime - yes it is; it’s called conspiracy to commit murder...)
    Advocating someone commit an unethical act is unethical.
  • Reply 1558 of 1615
    You bring up an interesting point, and one I’ve felt for a long time; withholding information on what the “free gift” is removes important data on a purchasing/refund decision. It’s a valid question as to whether withholding such information is unethical.

    I also wonder whether it is unethical to enforce that particular portion of a Treg NDA... I mean, Treggers are even allowed to talk about system flaws discovered (after allowing a week for the engineers to address any issues discovered...) but the contents about a “free gift” is a verboten topic... it seems out of step...

    ...I’m not a commercial lawyer specialising in corporate/contract ethics, but it does seem a little odd to me... I also freely admit that if I knew what the “free gift” was, I may well decide to cancel my purchase for a refund, but the not knowing (i.e. lack of information...) causes difficulty making a reasonable determination on a decision based on overall value...

    ...if it’s just a bobble-head doll, then I’ll know I can go the refund route...  ;)
    Exactly. I don't believe keeping a secret like that is enforceable, and the ethics of concealing the facts given the context of Mark Knighton's ill intentions mean that the secret itself is the most unethical aspect of the matter. 

    I know there must be a Treg tester out there somewhere who recognizes the wrong in what Mark Knighton is doing by hanging this secret over customers heads. 
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 1559 of 1615
    If I signed an NDA agreeing to conceal pertinent information from thousands of people, information which potentially harmed them financially (ie, the Textblade is never released, Mark Knighton aka Waytools goes belly up and all the customers who retained their orders in hopes of a nice 'gift' thus lose their entire outlay), is that not less ethical than simply refusing to no longer keep the secret, 4+ years after the fact, particularly given Mark Knighton's obvious willingness to blatantly lie to people (proof: May 2019 update, June 1st after 9pm update, the quiet Sunday update, etc).

    Treg testers - all you have to do is make an account on any social media platform, and upload a pic of the portion of the box that reveals the 'top gift'. I sincerely believe the net effect of disclosing the 'gift' will be to cause Mark Knighton to modify his behavior. Please consider the idea and think about how it will play out. It would be much appreciated. 

    edited June 2019
  • Reply 1560 of 1615
    Another way to consider the issue is in the context of 'whistleblower' scenarios.

    If an organization is doing something harmful, and you are party to that organization, or have non-disclosure agreements with that organization, you can legally and ethically disclose information about the organization if it would benefit the greater good.

    There's always shades of gray of course, and obviously Mark Knighton's little operation doesn't rise to the level of Wikileaks vs NSA, but it's the same principle.

    Ask yourself:

    How/why is it essential/ethical/justified for 10,000+ customers to not know what the 'gift' is at this point, after everything that has happened thus far?

    Give it some thought. 

    alexonline
This discussion has been closed.