High-end users on 'Why I'm buying the new Mac Pro'

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  • Reply 21 of 175
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,241member
    schlack said:
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 
    The Defense Department puts Top Secret information on AWS (https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/announcing-the-new-aws-secret-region/)...pretty sure they can handle PHI info properly.
    That's the leaking DoD for you. I worked for a long time at a DOE facility and or classified data was never allowed on external-managed servers. If DOE along with DoD is allowing classified data (secret to DOE is not the same as secret to DoD so I'm lumping everything that's non-unclassified into classified) on non-government servers in non-government-secured computing facilities then I have to wonder who's taking liability for loss of data. This was never allowed when I was working. The use of term "cloud" is something we were using ever since we had out first servers in operation. 
    watto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 22 of 175
    I am not a high-end professional user though I have a MacBook Pro for home use.  I do not feel the price of the new Mac Pro is disproportionately expensive, by comparison, and the same goes for the new monitor and stand.  The stand, which has been criticised for its price, is obviously a complex piece of engineering and the usual fantastic design so again, whilst it is a lot of money, per se, does not seem as excessive as is being stated.
    raoulduke42watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 175
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    Next article should read "Non-pro users on why Mac Pro is too expensive".

    bigtds said:
    I was reading that the lack of Nvidia support is a deal breaker for some when it comes to the Mac Pro. I can't imagine that you couldn't build a comparable PC with Nvidia cards for less than the price of a Mac Pro. But then there's the OS. That matters for some. For others, it's the tools that matter. 

    But the OS can ruin the tools. I used to work in recording studios and they didn't dare touch Windows because it would freeze mid-recording after 6 hours of work and the engineer forgot to save or would crash and delete Gigs of sessions. Eventually Windows computers in low end studios would upgrade to Macs to fix these issues. All high end studios had Mac Pros.

    Also Windows can't run some tools like Logic.
    edited June 2019 raoulduke42pscooter63watto_cobraphilboogiedysamoria
  • Reply 24 of 175
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    sandor said:
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 

    This is completely correct. The BAA is the thing that makes something "HIPAA compliant" - all modern encryption meets HIPAA requirements.

    We've been using AWS for EMR/EPM for years, with a BAA in place.
    Our PACS remains in-house, as the cost of 100 TB on AWS is monumental, and then we get to have a smaller pipe on our WAN (our PACS serves up 100s of GBs of data every day)
    Cloud options abound for HIPPA-constrained organizations. Google Cloud for example is also HIPPA-compliant and Google will sign a BAA as well. Last I knew Apple Cloud was not tho, and they will not sign a BAA. If that's changed someone please chime in.

    In any event off-site cloud storage does not need to be a hindrance for compliance.
    sandor
  • Reply 25 of 175
    seankillseankill Posts: 566member
    Next article should read "Non-pro users on why Mac Pro is too expensive".

    bigtds said:
    I was reading that the lack of Nvidia support is a deal breaker for some when it comes to the Mac Pro. I can't imagine that you couldn't build a comparable PC with Nvidia cards for less than the price of a Mac Pro. But then there's the OS. That matters for some. For others, it's the tools that matter. 

    But the OS can ruin the tools. I used to work in recording studios and they didn't dare touch Windows because it would freeze mid-recording after 6 hours of work and the engineer forgot to save or would crash and delete Gigs of sessions. Eventually Windows computers in low end studios would upgrade to fix these issues. All high end studios had Mac Pros.

    Also Windows can't run some tools like Logic.

    Its like like Macs don’t freeze. The ones with the “fusion” drives seem to freeze all the times. Then again, they could just be slow. 
  • Reply 26 of 175
    WgkruegerWgkrueger Posts: 352member
    schlack said:
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 
    The Defense Department puts Top Secret information on AWS (https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/announcing-the-new-aws-secret-region/)...pretty sure they can handle PHI info properly.
    We’re boned. 
  • Reply 27 of 175
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    rob53 said:
    schlack said:
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 
    The Defense Department puts Top Secret information on AWS (https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/announcing-the-new-aws-secret-region/)...pretty sure they can handle PHI info properly.
    That's the leaking DoD for you. I worked for a long time at a DOE facility and or classified data was never allowed on external-managed servers. If DOE along with DoD is allowing classified data (secret to DOE is not the same as secret to DoD so I'm lumping everything that's non-unclassified into classified) on non-government servers in non-government-secured computing facilities then I have to wonder who's taking liability for loss of data. This was never allowed when I was working. The use of term "cloud" is something we were using ever since we had out first servers in operation. 
    https://www.fedramp.gov
    docno42
  • Reply 28 of 175
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 167member
    bigtds said:
    I was reading that the lack of Nvidia support is a deal breaker for some when it comes to the Mac Pro. I can't imagine that you couldn't build a comparable PC with Nvidia cards for less than the price of a Mac Pro. But then there's the OS. That matters for some. For others, it's the tools that matter. 
    Is the OS not a tool?  
    I guess you can consider it a tool if you want. In that case, both Mac OS and Windows accomplished the same thing in different ways. It's a matter of preference.
    deminsd
  • Reply 29 of 175
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 167member
    Next article should read "Non-pro users on why Mac Pro is too expensive".

    bigtds said:
    I was reading that the lack of Nvidia support is a deal breaker for some when it comes to the Mac Pro. I can't imagine that you couldn't build a comparable PC with Nvidia cards for less than the price of a Mac Pro. But then there's the OS. That matters for some. For others, it's the tools that matter. 

    But the OS can ruin the tools. I used to work in recording studios and they didn't dare touch Windows because it would freeze mid-recording after 6 hours of work and the engineer forgot to save or would crash and delete Gigs of sessions. Eventually Windows computers in low end studios would upgrade to fix these issues. All high end studios had Mac Pros.

    Also Windows can't run some tools like Logic.
    Yep, There have been issues with Windows in the past and I'm sure there are instances of issues with the current version. But let's not pretend that these things don't happen with Mac OS too. If you're using software that works on Mac OS only, then that's the platform you need. Most third party software works on both so at least you have a choice. The current version of Windows is pretty solid and I've had no major issues with how it works. Kinda the same as my current Mac OS version.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 175
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,718member
    The new Sony 600mm F/4 GM lens or a new Mac Pro ... What a choice to have to make!
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 31 of 175
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    13485 said:
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 
    What verification or validation do you have that the data is secure from unauthorized access, loss or tampering, uncorrupted in any way, you have knowledge of the geographic location of the data at any one time, and it's recoverable promptly if regulators request it?

    Maybe you have that assurance, but it's no slam dunk. Data integrity is an evolving regulatory field and what's acceptable today may not be tomorrow.
    Perhaps you're not versed in what is involved in HIPPA and cloud certification. This will explain it in a few paragraphs.
    https://www.medprodisposal.com/what-is-a-baa
    And this in more detail:
    https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/cloud-computing/index.html

    In essence your organization is not responsible if the "business associate" fails to fully safeguard PHI data you've entrusted them with. 

    Quote: It’s not your fault if a vendor breaches the BAA and violates HIPAA in some way. When the vendor signs the document, the take on the liability for safeguarding the PHI. No company can be held responsible for policing another when it comes to HIPAA and a BAA

    So there's your assurance. 
    edited June 2019 sandor
  • Reply 32 of 175
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,258member
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 
    I don't know tipoo's situation, but at my company we still experience resistance both from our internal security people (who frankly aren't that good, but that's beyond my control) but also from some of our federal clients. Remember that the federal government is not a monolithic thing. There are a lot of individuals with different (sometimes not so smart) views on a diversity of issues. It can still be a competitive advantage to say that you can house data on-premises, even if that's actually kind of dumb. 
  • Reply 33 of 175
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    Has Apple ever said why they don’t support Nvidia?
  • Reply 34 of 175
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Has Apple ever said why they don’t support Nvidia?
    It may come down to Apple wanting to control the graphics drivers, not a specific technical issue.

  • Reply 35 of 175
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,056member
    Speaking of the DoD, i'd sort of be curious if the new Mac Pro is export controlled technology under ITAR, EAR, OFAC and similar. Can Apple drop this thing in a box and send it anywhere? Asking for a friend. 
    macseeker
  • Reply 36 of 175
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    This machine is out of my personal price range for now, so I wont be getting one, but I don't think it's over priced for what it is. 

    I laugh at the ignoramuses I see on youtube complaining about the price.

    This machine is not for idiot Vloggers on youtube. They're not pro. They're lousy amateurs with amateur opinions and this machine is not for them. They wouldn't know pro if it came down straight from the sky and hit them right in the middle of their ignorant heads.

    I also see people complaining about the price of the base model. Again, these people don't get it. The base model is just a starting point, most customers will not be getting the base model with only 8 cores.

    In the video and audio industry, quality gear is not cheap. Microphones can cost $10,000. Large studio monitors can cost 6 figures. Camera gear and lenses can be insanely expensive. I've worked in million dollar studios before. So what if something costs $50,000? 

    For certain people and companies who are truly pro and have real pro clients, a machine like this can be a good investment which will pay for itself after a while. It's just another useful tool to get things done.

    I also laugh at all the dumb memes about the thousand dollar monitor stand. Some people are just angry that they can't afford something which they would never have bought to begin with. That is just really stupid.

    People have been whining about Apple neglecting the "Pros" for a long time. Well, now Apple has released a truly Pro machine, and some people are complaining that it's too "Pro". Hahahaha. 


    edited June 2019 GG1mwhitemacseekerpscooter63docno42watto_cobrachiaurahara
  • Reply 37 of 175
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 1,020member
    Let’s be honest for a second, the new Mac Pro and XDR Display is not a good value if someone isn’t working at a Marvel Studio.

    So it’s a direct discrimination to abandon the smaller enterprise and artist that used to work on moderate size project without forking out twice the price of last generation Mac Pro and five-fold the price of last generation Thunderbolt Display. Are you getting it?

     The xMac and xDisplay will be more valuable and less expensive with slightly cut down version of its brethren by offering customer the option to purchase 5K xDisplay without 1000nits that typically price below $1500 and xMac equip with 6-cores, without MPX module, no optional wheel or handle, fewer I/O port, limited to 32GB of RAM at $3000.  
    Or any other major motion picture studio.

    I imagine the makers of Planet Earth used some pretty intense machines for their RED Epic Dragon workflow. The new MacPro would handle that documentary with absolute ease.
    caladanianfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 175
    sandorsandor Posts: 655member
    13485 said:
    tedz98 said:
    tipoo said:
    We deal with PHI data that can't go on AWS or any outside servers. Some of our machines are 768GB RAM, the previous workstation limit, as virtualized instances as mentioned will take a heck of a lot of memory relative to their need for CPU. That bit seems to be throwing off a lot of people online who can't imagine needing 1.5TB in a single workstation. We were already maxing out older platforms. 
    AWS is HIPPA compliant and will sign a BAA.  There’s no reason you can’t put PHI in the Amazon Cloud. You’re incorrectly limiting your organization’s IT options if you aren’t evaluating cloud options.  There may be other reasons not to use AWS, but HIPPA and PHI is not one of them. 
    What verification or validation do you have that the data is secure from unauthorized access, loss or tampering, uncorrupted in any way, you have knowledge of the geographic location of the data at any one time, and it's recoverable promptly if regulators request it?

    Maybe you have that assurance, but it's no slam dunk. Data integrity is an evolving regulatory field and what's acceptable today may not be tomorrow.

    That is **literally** the purpose of the BAA that is required by law (HIPAA) - this puts the burden of proof, so to speak, and the legal ramifications, on the contracted supplier.

    This is the same whether it is Iron Mountain storing your paper charts or AWS storing your digital ones - the requirements are the same.


  • Reply 39 of 175
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,858administrator
    eightzero said:
    Speaking of the DoD, i'd sort of be curious if the new Mac Pro is export controlled technology under ITAR, EAR, OFAC and similar. Can Apple drop this thing in a box and send it anywhere? Asking for a friend. 
    It is not yet, but may be by the time all is said and done.
  • Reply 40 of 175
    bigtds said:
    I was reading that the lack of Nvidia support is a deal breaker for some when it comes to the Mac Pro. I can't imagine that you couldn't build a comparable PC with Nvidia cards for less than the price of a Mac Pro. But then there's the OS. That matters for some. For others, it's the tools that matter. 
    Seems to me the operating system is a rather integral part of those "tools." Windows is still hot garbage. Undissmissamble auto-updates, orders of magnitudes more viruses (that are easier to contract), and just plain terrible (and inconsistent!) interface decisions all over the place force people that are just trying to get work done to deal with the OS. Tools matter indeed. I'll give you the Nvidia thing though, that's a major bummer.
    mark fearingradarthekatdocno42fastasleepdysamoria
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