Apple's own 5G modem expected to land as soon as 2022

Posted:
in iPhone edited June 17
Apple will be producing a 5G iPhone by 2020, TF International Securities' Ming-Chi Kuo believes, but Apple could complete development of its own 5G modem and do without Qualcomm's version by 2022 or 2023.

Qualcomm's 5G hardware
Qualcomm's 5G hardware


Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo believes that while Apple's first 5G iPhones will have a Qualcomm modem. Kuo suggests that Apple's 5G modem could launch in an iPhone in 2022 or 2023.

"We believe that the content of Apple and Qualcomm's previous settlement includes Qualcomm's release of partly 5G baseband chip source code to Apple for Apple's development of its own 5G PA/FEM," Kuo writes.

For Qualcomm's modem, Apple is thought to use its self-designed power amplifier and front-end module, instead of Qualcomm's RF360 By using its own modified amplifier and module, Apple can lay the groundwork to more easily add its own version in a future update to the product line.

A two-year supply deal with Broadcom is thought to help by modifying the 4G power amplifier for 5G usage, as well as helping Apple develop the 5G baseband chip itself.

It is thought the 5G iPhone will support both sub-6GHz and frequencies above 6Ghz, due to the US being Apple's home market. The mainstream technology for 5G in the United States is said to be mmWave, which would require the higher-than-6GHz frequencies to be supported, making a sub-6GHz-only iPhone unlikely.

For the 2020 iPhones, Kuo thinks they will consist of a high-end 6.7-inch OLED model along with a 5.4-inch OLED and low-end 6.1-inch OLED version. Of the three, the 6.7-inch and 5.4-inch will likely support 5G while the third will stick to 4G technologies.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 730member
    And by 2022 5G might be out where I live. Heck we just got reliable 4G LTE. So I’m going to worry about 5G on the phone AFTER the one I get later this year.
    lkrupptmayhodar
  • Reply 2 of 29
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,313member
    This 5G hubbub is similar to the Samsung Fold. The fake techies will hammer Apple over it but in truth it won’t be until 2022 that 5G is widely available. And I still don’t understand why a mobile phone would need that kind of speed other than because it can.
    tmayDAalsetholsleavingthebiggjbdragon
  • Reply 3 of 29
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,534member
    As more devices move to 5G, it will free up the 4G space, essentially helping those devices operate with a faster connection than before.

    entropyscaladanian
  • Reply 4 of 29
    ceek74ceek74 Posts: 324member
    Cool.  By then we'll have 7H or 9J.
    randominternetpersonSoli
  • Reply 5 of 29
    kestralkestral Posts: 261member
    I've known Apple over the decades, the first version is going to have a lot of problems.
    I'll want to get the last iPhone with a QCOM 5G modem in it and stick with it while Apple works out the bugs.
    You guys can beta test for AAPL.
    edited June 17
  • Reply 6 of 29
    orthorimorthorim Posts: 158member
    lkrupp said:
    This 5G hubbub is similar to the Samsung Fold. The fake techies will hammer Apple over it but in truth it won’t be until 2022 that 5G is widely available. And I still don’t understand why a mobile phone would need that kind of speed other than because it can.
    One of the main flaws of 5G - there's no use case. 

    Second flaw - thanks to this being basically microwaves, you need towers everywhere. Tons of them.

    Third flaw - its frying your brain. Also in part thanks to the towers having to be everywhere. Military uses these frequencies for crowd control. 

    The difference to previous gen mobile tech is that for 5G, thousands of scientists have signed letters of concern - the safety of this technology is highly questionable. Thousands of scientists have signed a letter of concern, many studies on these frequencies indicate that they are damaging human health. 

    Theres a vague promise of an iOT - but that won't come from 5G, that will be more like that super low power low data bandwith protocol a startup recently introduced (forgot name). To have extremely low power, extremely small receiver chips and antennas makes sense for iOT - that's what you'd want. 5G? Wouldn't work for those use cases because it requires too much power... my cat collar doesn't need to communicate at 100MBPS either... 

    At best 5G is an idiotic waste of money

    At worst, the conspiracy theorists are right - and since Snowden, that's not even so far fetched anymore, because all the stuff Snowden revealed was considered tinfoil-hat territory prior to that - and these devices are going to be used to track all movement of everyone at all times, and to simultaneously fry our brains.

  • Reply 7 of 29
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,412member
    Ming Chi Kuo, eh? Meh. There is no way he knows what Apple will or won’t do 2-3 years in the future.
    ols
  • Reply 8 of 29
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,584member
    orthorim said:
    lkrupp said:
    This 5G hubbub is similar to the Samsung Fold. The fake techies will hammer Apple over it but in truth it won’t be until 2022 that 5G is widely available. And I still don’t understand why a mobile phone would need that kind of speed other than because it can.
    One of the main flaws of 5G - there's no use case. 

    Second flaw - thanks to this being basically microwaves, you need towers everywhere. Tons of them.

    Third flaw - its frying your brain. Also in part thanks to the towers having to be everywhere. Military uses these frequencies for crowd control. 

    The difference to previous gen mobile tech is that for 5G, thousands of scientists have signed letters of concern - the safety of this technology is highly questionable. Thousands of scientists have signed a letter of concern, many studies on these frequencies indicate that they are damaging human health. 

    Theres a vague promise of an iOT - but that won't come from 5G, that will be more like that super low power low data bandwith protocol a startup recently introduced (forgot name). To have extremely low power, extremely small receiver chips and antennas makes sense for iOT - that's what you'd want. 5G? Wouldn't work for those use cases because it requires too much power... my cat collar doesn't need to communicate at 100MBPS either... 

    At best 5G is an idiotic waste of money

    At worst, the conspiracy theorists are right - and since Snowden, that's not even so far fetched anymore, because all the stuff Snowden revealed was considered tinfoil-hat territory prior to that - and these devices are going to be used to track all movement of everyone at all times, and to simultaneously fry our brains.

    Please link to conclusive evidence that wireless comms are doing damage to our brains. 
    hodarcaladanian
  • Reply 9 of 29
    GG1GG1 Posts: 276member
    The impact of an Apple modem chip on Apple's product line will be significant. It will be cheaper than Qualcomm, so it can go into more products, such as the MacBook Pro. If it is paired with the A-series chip (like an SoC), then all products with A-series chips will have cellular connectivity (all iPads, ATV, etc.). And when the MacBook goes to A-series...
    caladanian
  • Reply 10 of 29
    As more devices move to 5G, it will free up the 4G space, essentially helping those devices operate with a faster connection than before.

    My current phone works great when I see the LTE icon, if it has the 4G icon instead, it is almost a useless brick...
    ceek74
  • Reply 11 of 29
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 829member
    kestral said:
    I've known Apple over the decades, the first version is going to have a lot of problems.
    I'll want to get the last iPhone with a QCOM 5G modem in it and stick with it while Apple works out the bugs.
    You guys can beta test for AAPL.
    Considering they ( Apple/Qualcomm)  have a six-year license agreement effective as of April 1, 2019 I don't think anyone will be doing any beta testing as you put it for quite a while.
  • Reply 12 of 29
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,012member
    I have no doubt that Apple will introduce it's own 5G modem by 2022 and it will be as good as Qualcomm. Though most people will continue staying with 4G LTE for a while due to why pay more for 5G when LTE speed is sufficient..And who knows in 5 years we will be talking 6G or 10G.
    edited June 17
  • Reply 13 of 29
    hodarhodar Posts: 278member
    I wish we would satisfy what 4G was billed as being capable of.  Namely, you would get up to 100Mbps in a mobile situation, and up to 1 Gbps in a stationary case.  I cannot speak for your experience, but mine is typically less than 50 Mbps under the stationary case.

    My biggest issue is that the 5G taps into the 2.4-2.6 GHz range, which happens to be the range we NEED for measuring water vapor in the atmosphere.  And yes, this means that our weather storm, hurricane, tornado and severe weather stations will NOT BE ABLE to get the measurements we NEED to save lives.  NASA has already filed a complaint with the FCC, and the FCC wants money instead of weather analysis.

    IMHO, I'll wait a second or two to view my email, if it means someone else may get a tornado warning, hurricane warning or severe storm warning - with better predictability, and time to shelter or evacuate.  But, my opinion appears to be the minority opinion.
    applesnorangescaladanianmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 14 of 29
    Interesting facts about the state of 5G that AppleInsider and other Apple-focused Web sites are not telling readers:

    1. How much the customers of Apple’s Android competitors are enjoying 5G on their 5G-enabled smartphones all over the world. 

    2. The increased sales of and/or interest in the Android 5G-enabled smartphones. 

    3. The compelling 5G services Apple’s Android competitors are offering their customers around the world that Apple’s customers are missing out on. 

    4. Quotes from AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon about how their customers are lining up to buy 5G-enabled Android smartphones from their physical and online stores. 

    5. Google Pixel 4’s support/non-support of 5G. 

    Why am I focusing on Android? AppleInsider doesn’t hesitate to repeatedly tell us Apple won’t have 5G in 2019, Apple will be late to 5G like it was late to other Gs, Apple will use Qualcomm’s 5G in 2020, Apple’s 5G will be ready in 2022, 2025, 2022, whatever Ming Kuo decides to announce next. (Wasn’t it Kuo who initially announced 2022 then 2025 and now again 2022 without any historical accountability for the changes from AppleInsider?)
  • Reply 15 of 29
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,850member

    The difference to previous gen mobile tech is that for 5G, thousands of scientists have signed letters of concern - the safety of this technology is highly questionable. Thousands of scientists have signed a letter of concern, many studies on these frequencies indicate that they are damaging human health. 
    There are always scientists somewhere holding all sorts of interesting positions, when a real scienctist should have disinterest. This lot are activists.
  • Reply 16 of 29
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,850member
    1. How much the customers of Apple’s Android competitors are enjoying 5G on their 5G-enabled smartphones all over the world. 
    They are enjoying bragging about it. In my country you have to be in a couple of blocks on the Gold Coast to actually use it.

    2. The increased sales of and/or interest in the Android 5G-enabled smartphones. 
    If I was buying an android phone right now I would want one with 5G. It would have better resale when the time comes. It also means I won’t buy a new iPhone until 2020

    3. The compelling 5G services Apple’s Android competitors are offering their customers around the world that Apple’s customers are missing out on. 
    I think the best use of 5G at present and for the next few years is home broadband where there isn’t a fibre or cable landline.

    4. Quotes from AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon about how their customers are lining up to buy 5G-enabled Android smartphones from their physical and online stores. 
    If I as in the market for one now I would go the 5G model. I would have it a couple of years and then want to sell it in an established  5G market. Same applies to iPhone though. No new iPhones in our house for at least 18 months.

    5. Google Pixel 4’s support/non-support of 5G

    Pixel is a reference phone is it not?
  • Reply 17 of 29
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,672member
    orthorim said:
    lkrupp said:
    This 5G hubbub is similar to the Samsung Fold. The fake techies will hammer Apple over it but in truth it won’t be until 2022 that 5G is widely available. And I still don’t understand why a mobile phone would need that kind of speed other than because it can.
    One of the main flaws of 5G - there's no use case. 

    Second flaw - thanks to this being basically microwaves, you need towers everywhere. Tons of them.

    Third flaw - its frying your brain. Also in part thanks to the towers having to be everywhere. Military uses these frequencies for crowd control. 

    The difference to previous gen mobile tech is that for 5G, thousands of scientists have signed letters of concern - the safety of this technology is highly questionable. Thousands of scientists have signed a letter of concern, many studies on these frequencies indicate that they are damaging human health. 

    Theres a vague promise of an iOT - but that won't come from 5G, that will be more like that super low power low data bandwith protocol a startup recently introduced (forgot name). To have extremely low power, extremely small receiver chips and antennas makes sense for iOT - that's what you'd want. 5G? Wouldn't work for those use cases because it requires too much power... my cat collar doesn't need to communicate at 100MBPS either... 

    At best 5G is an idiotic waste of money

    At worst, the conspiracy theorists are right - and since Snowden, that's not even so far fetched anymore, because all the stuff Snowden revealed was considered tinfoil-hat territory prior to that - and these devices are going to be used to track all movement of everyone at all times, and to simultaneously fry our brains.

    Please link to conclusive evidence that wireless comms are doing damage to our brains. 
    Given that the frequencies that are new to 5G are also the ones that have no appreciable penetration I'm not seeing the source of concern.
    hodar
  • Reply 18 of 29
    GG1GG1 Posts: 276member
    Interesting facts about the state of 5G that AppleInsider and other Apple-focused Web sites are not telling readers:

    1. How much the customers of Apple’s Android competitors are enjoying 5G on their 5G-enabled smartphones all over the world. 

    2. The increased sales of and/or interest in the Android 5G-enabled smartphones. 

    3. The compelling 5G services Apple’s Android competitors are offering their customers around the world that Apple’s customers are missing out on. 

    4. Quotes from AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon about how their customers are lining up to buy 5G-enabled Android smartphones from their physical and online stores. 

    5. Google Pixel 4’s support/non-support of 5G. 

    Why am I focusing on Android? AppleInsider doesn’t hesitate to repeatedly tell us Apple won’t have 5G in 2019, Apple will be late to 5G like it was late to other Gs, Apple will use Qualcomm’s 5G in 2020, Apple’s 5G will be ready in 2022, 2025, 2022, whatever Ming Kuo decides to announce next. (Wasn’t it Kuo who initially announced 2022 then 2025 and now again 2022 without any historical accountability for the changes from AppleInsider?)

    5G will cost extra. Early adopters will pay more for higher speed with worse coverage.

    2020 may still be early to reach a tipping point on coverage & speed vs. extra cost for 5G service.

    I'm not against Android, I'm against the 5G hype.
  • Reply 19 of 29
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,672member

    lkrupp said:
    This 5G hubbub is similar to the Samsung Fold. The fake techies will hammer Apple over it but in truth it won’t be until 2022 that 5G is widely available. And I still don’t understand why a mobile phone would need that kind of speed other than because it can.
    ...but it has ultra low latency so you can do remote robotic surgery or remotely drive your car with your iPhone!
    As more devices move to 5G, it will free up the 4G space, essentially helping those devices operate with a faster connection than before.

    Is this true? Nothing I've read has clearly stated whether this will be the case or not. My understanding of 5G is that part of the technology involves speeding signals across the frequency spectrum, including the 4G frequencies, so it's conceivable that it will make it worse.

    hodar said:
    I wish we would satisfy what 4G was billed as being capable of.  Namely, you would get up to 100Mbps in a mobile situation, and up to 1 Gbps in a stationary case.  I cannot speak for your experience, but mine is typically less than 50 Mbps under the stationary case.

    This is another reason I'm not jumping at the gun to get 5G. The mobile industry has a long history of overpromising and underdelivering. I have no doubt that 5G will eventually be an improvement over 4G, but it will be a while, with a lot of fits and starts in the mean time. 
    kestral said:
    I've known Apple over the decades, the first version is going to have a lot of problems.
    I'll want to get the last iPhone with a QCOM 5G modem in it and stick with it while Apple works out the bugs.
    You guys can beta test for AAPL.
    Given the lack of modem manufacturers selling 5G chips and the fact that it's Apple's first foray, I think it's safe to assume that the first gen chip is not going to be the one you want. Of course, Qualcomm's 2nd and 3rd gen chips have historically significantly better than their first gen chips, too. 
    edited June 17 caladanian
  • Reply 20 of 29
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,373member
    I assume any new 5G modem is actually a 4G + 5G+ since 5G can't go through a cardboard box?
    edited June 17
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