Apple design chief Jony Ive to depart later this year, create new studio with Apple as cli...

145679

Comments

  • Reply 161 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    tmay said:
    AI_lias said:
    Good riddance. Maybe the ports will come back now, and better keyboards, upgradeability, repairability, and other common sense things that left lately. Sounds funny how he was the top design officer, but people think he shouldn’t be held accountable for all design decisions. 

    Apple was already getting rid of upgradeability when Steve Jobs was still around. Decisions on upgradeability, ports etc. don’t just come from designers. Even the whole so-called obsession with thinness. Let’s not forget it was Steve Jobs who announced the MacBook Air by pulling it out of a Manila envelope and spent most of the intro talking about how thin it was. Oh and as far as repairability and upgradeability...go read an iFixit review of a Microsoft Surface product. They get lower scores than Apple products. Yet for some reason Microsoft doesn’t get nearly the grief Apple does.
    Phil Schiller is Apple's Completely Invisible Senior Vice President, apparently. 

    The fact that most of the commenters are complaining about marketing, not Industrial Design, and yet blaming Ive for all errors and omissions, is telling. 
    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I think Phil Schiller is the most powerful person at Apple. I’d argue very few decisions get made without his approval. 
    cornchipmacplusplus
  • Reply 162 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    This is the best thing to happen to Apple.

    To the news of "Jony Ive leaves Apple", I can only add "Finally!"

    He is taking Marc Newsom with him - which indicates that Jony's design mistakes have finally prompted Tim Cook to cut that relationship, and go with a new group (notably the Pro Design group).

    Apple is in better hands with Jony Ive, finally!
    Right except this Pro Design Group was, and still remains inside hardware engineering. John Ternus, the guy who showed off the Mac Pro at WWDC is part of hardware engineering. The two groups that reported up through Ive are now reporting to Jeff Williams (future Apple CEO in my opinion) not hardware or software engineering.
    Yes. That's exactly what I'm thinking. That's why the heads of the Human Interface Design and Industrial Design are now answering to Williams and not Cook is suspect. Ive used to answer to the CEO directly but not anymore. This means Cook just handed off a 'hot potato' to Williams by saying ' Okay Williams. It's your turn now. I got one foot out the door and getting ready '. 

    I smell another huge exit. 

    EDIT: to be honest, I would've like Craig to be CEO. 
    It depends what one wants the CEO role to be. I still think Jeff is the one being groomed. But if Apple is moving away from hardware towards a software services business then maybe the operations guy isn’t the right one to take over. Just so long as it’s not Eddy Cue. 
    cornchip
  • Reply 163 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member

    It depends what one wants the CEO role to be. I still think Jeff is the one being groomed. But if Apple is moving away from hardware towards a software services business then maybe the operations guy isn’t the right one to take over. Just so long as it’s not Eddy Cue.

    Agreed. I think it's Jeff. Otherwise, it has to be Craig. I really don't want Eddy in charge. Just no. In fact, I don't think it will be because he hasn't been seen on the last two keynotes let alone Craig. Even Schiller. 
  • Reply 164 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    kamilton said:
    spice-boy said:
    No matter how great many of the Ive era designs have been.... I am looking forward to see what the next generation of designers will do beyond the strict minimalist Ive aesthetic.  
    Me too!  The Ive fixation on thin has hampered MBP design.  My hunch is the new Mac Pro is the first indication of post-Ive design. I returned a new 13” MBP last week.  Going to wait another year. 

    Jony had a hell of a run, but AAPL needs a new design ethos 
    And yet Ive was one of the narrators in the Mac Pro video posted on Apple’s website. Plus he was the one in the hands on room showing it off to Tim Cook. 



    As far as the thinness obsession, most Windows laptops (outside of gaming devices) are as thin as any Apple laptop. I don’t think it’s an Apple obsession but a consumer desire for products that are lighter and more portable. And something marketing likes to push.

    I’d also say this is all bit of a Rorschach test. For those who aren’t Ive fans if Apple does something they like then they’ll assume he had no involvement. If Apple does something they hate then the assumption will be it’s a leftover from the Ive days.
    edited June 2019 cornchipmacplusplus
  • Reply 165 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    kestral said:
    I see all these tech writers out there praising John Gruber’s post about this. I don’t see what’s so great about it. It’s quite nasty, especially the part where he complains about the FT using the title “Sir”. Not professional at all.
    John Gruber is the biggest Apple sycophant out there. The fact that he finally said something "nasty" is huge.
    Nah Gruber has been less and less of a fanboy in recent years. My guess along with perhaps some sincere complaints he was sick of being considered a sycophant and so decided to become more critical. The fact he re-tweeted Nilay Patel praising his DF post says everting about who the audience for that piece was.
    cornchip
  • Reply 166 of 186
    AI_liasAI_lias Posts: 431member
    AI_lias said:
    Good riddance. Maybe the ports will come back now, and better keyboards, upgradeability, repairability, and other common sense things that left lately. Sounds funny how he was the top design officer, but people think he shouldn’t be held accountable for all design decisions. 

    Apple was already getting rid of upgradeability when Steve Jobs was still around. Decisions on upgradeability, ports etc. don’t just come from designers. Even the whole so-called obsession with thinness. Let’s not forget it was Steve Jobs who announced the MacBook Air by pulling it out of a Manila envelope and spent most of the intro talking about how thin it was. Oh and as far as repairability and upgradeability...go read an iFixit review of a Microsoft Surface product. They get lower scores than Apple products. Yet for some reason Microsoft doesn’t get nearly the grief Apple does.
    It still doesn't make it right that Steve Jobs was also getting rid of upgradeability. It doesn't mean that Jonathan Ive did not keep doing it. Same for Microsoft. First, upgradeability and repairability should be pursued by anyone, just because Microsoft and others also don't do it, doesn't make it right. Secondly, Apple has had an influence in the industry in promoting that, and others copying it. In my opinion, Apple's success has been reinforcing the wrong ideas sometimes. If they designed something in a certain limiting way for the consumer, and people still bought it because lack of competition or ecosystem stickiness, it shouldn't be interpreted that consumers liked everything about it. Thirdly, is taking it too far. Limiting upgradeability and repairability too much. Say, Steve Job was doing it some, but it's been taken to the extremes: single key failure costing $700 to fix, and lots of parts to be replaced. Back of iphone busted leading to whole phone replacement, etc.
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 167 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member

    It depends what one wants the CEO role to be. I still think Jeff is the one being groomed. But if Apple is moving away from hardware towards a software services business then maybe the operations guy isn’t the right one to take over. Just so long as it’s not Eddy Cue.

    Agreed. I think it's Jeff. Otherwise, it has to be Craig. I really don't want Eddy in charge. Just no. In fact, I don't think it will be because he hasn't been seen on the last two keynotes let alone Craig. Even Schiller. 
    My guess is internally it’s either Williams or Schiller. Though interestingly prior to 2019 all SVPs (except for Ive) were listed as executive officers of the company. In 2019 the company changed that and the only executives listed were Cook, the CFO, COO, head of retail and chief legal officer.
  • Reply 168 of 186
    Sanctum1972Sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member

    It depends what one wants the CEO role to be. I still think Jeff is the one being groomed. But if Apple is moving away from hardware towards a software services business then maybe the operations guy isn’t the right one to take over. Just so long as it’s not Eddy Cue.

    Agreed. I think it's Jeff. Otherwise, it has to be Craig. I really don't want Eddy in charge. Just no. In fact, I don't think it will be because he hasn't been seen on the last two keynotes let alone Craig. Even Schiller. 
    My guess is internally it’s either Williams or Schiller. Though interestingly prior to 2019 all SVPs (except for Ive) were listed as executive officers of the company. In 2019 the company changed that and the only executives listed were Cook, the CFO, COO, head of retail and chief legal officer.
    I see that now here: https://www.apple.com/leadership/

    However. that's a lot of SVP positions from what's shown. My money's on Williams because Sabih just got promoted so he's probably next in line to take the COO position eventually. My problem with Williams is that he doesn't have 'presence' when he speaks at the keynote compared to Craig who does. Not sure about Schiller because he shills too much. 
  • Reply 169 of 186
    flydog said:
    Sell your stocks folks....
    Well that's a totally brainless comment. Apple has over 140,000 employees.  
    No, it’s not, you troll. While I usually don’t feel the need to explain myself, I'm a designer myself and I’ve long admired Ive’s work and long since recognized how much he makes up Apple’s core and success for most of the last two decades. However, like with Steve’s passing, this will leave a gaping hole at Apple, because no two designers are alike. And the result will be a continuation of the decline of quality from Apple. He is not the whole of Apple, but there will certainly be ripples...
    kestral
  • Reply 170 of 186
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    mike54 said:
    It was Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive that were pushing for attention to detail, fine tolerances of construction and manufacturing.

    Bloomberg: "But after the Watch launched in 2015, Ive began to shed responsibilities."   It's by no coincidence that Apple has been having
    quality and design problems since that time.

    Also, for example, Johhny Ive did not design the update to the current Apple Magic Mouse, that one, with the charging port on the bottom.

    That bottom charging mouse is easily one of the dumbest things Apple has ever done.
    AI_liasdblanch369
  • Reply 171 of 186
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    kestral said:
    I see all these tech writers out there praising John Gruber’s post about this. I don’t see what’s so great about it. It’s quite nasty, especially the part where he complains about the FT using the title “Sir”. Not professional at all.
    John Gruber is the biggest Apple sycophant out there. The fact that he finally said something "nasty" is huge.
    He’s sycophantic, but he’s also known for his droning attacks and complaints. Ever listen to his podcast? Good lord, he can whine for hours about one thing.
    tmaycornchip
  • Reply 172 of 186
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    I see all these tech writers out there praising John Gruber’s post about this. I don’t see what’s so great about it. It’s quite nasty, especially the part where he complains about the FT using the title “Sir”. Not professional at all.
    The FT?  He complains about Apple Newsroom's Press Release using it, since it's an American company.

    It's fine that he has that opinion, thought I agree that he expressed himself in a pithy and unbecoming way.  He often does though, snark is his thing, along with half the internet.
  • Reply 173 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    crowley said:
    I see all these tech writers out there praising John Gruber’s post about this. I don’t see what’s so great about it. It’s quite nasty, especially the part where he complains about the FT using the title “Sir”. Not professional at all.
    The FT?  He complains about Apple Newsroom's Press Release using it, since it's an American company.

    It's fine that he has that opinion, thought I agree that he expressed himself in a pithy and unbecoming way.  He often does though, snark is his thing, along with half the internet.
    Oh I didn’t catch that Apple’s news release used it. It’s never been used on Apple’s leadership page. My guess is had Gruber waited a while to publish something it would have been better. 
  • Reply 174 of 186
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,639member
    I actually think this is a good thing.  While many of Ive's designs were brilliant in many respects, he always placed form over function.   So we have the MBP in which the overwhelming design objective was thinness, but in doing so removed the ability to replace/upgrade battery, storage and memory.   What we don't know is whether or not this was imposed upon Ive by marketing as a way to force people to buy new computers more often. 

    We have beautiful looking phones (although most competitive phones look just about as good), which look great in advertisements, but are so fragile that you have to place them in a case anyway, so you're never really seeing the phone as intended.   I can't tell you the number of times when I've seen someone handling their phone without a case and thinking, "oh..that's a really nice looking phone" and then realizing that I had the exact same model (but mine was in a case).   And while it's become less of a factor over time due to improvements in battery tech, it's ridiculous that an end-user can't replace the battery in an iPhone.    Would you buy a car in which the car had to be returned to the dealer to replace the tires, headlights or battery?   

    I actually hope that Ive doesn't have all that much involvement with Apple once he launches his new firm.   I think it's time for new blood and new ideas.   I hope the people taking over design at Apple have radically different ideas from Ive's.  
    avon b7AI_lias
  • Reply 175 of 186
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 1,245member
    Jobs and Ive are like Watson and Crick- two teams that made a huge difference in our lives.
    dblanch369
  • Reply 176 of 186
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    zoetmb said:
    I actually think this is a good thing.  While many of Ive's designs were brilliant in many respects, he always placed form over function.   So we have the MBP in which the overwhelming design objective was thinness, but in doing so removed the ability to replace/upgrade battery, storage and memory.   What we don't know is whether or not this was imposed upon Ive by marketing as a way to force people to buy new computers more often. 

    We have beautiful looking phones (although most competitive phones look just about as good), which look great in advertisements, but are so fragile that you have to place them in a case anyway, so you're never really seeing the phone as intended.   I can't tell you the number of times when I've seen someone handling their phone without a case and thinking, "oh..that's a really nice looking phone" and then realizing that I had the exact same model (but mine was in a case).   And while it's become less of a factor over time due to improvements in battery tech, it's ridiculous that an end-user can't replace the battery in an iPhone.    Would you buy a car in which the car had to be returned to the dealer to replace the tires, headlights or battery?   

    I actually hope that Ive doesn't have all that much involvement with Apple once he launches his new firm.   I think it's time for new blood and new ideas.   I hope the people taking over design at Apple have radically different ideas from Ive's.  
    Pretty much everything you’ve mentioned are things that one person alone could never decide. The iPhone never had a user replaceable battery. Many products under Steve Jobs didn’t have replaceable batteries and weren’t upgradeable.
    macplusplusJWSC
  • Reply 177 of 186
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,111member
    zoetmb said:
    I actually think this is a good thing.  While many of Ive's designs were brilliant in many respects, he always placed form over function.   So we have the MBP in which the overwhelming design objective was thinness, but in doing so removed the ability to replace/upgrade battery, storage and memory.   What we don't know is whether or not this was imposed upon Ive by marketing as a way to force people to buy new computers more often. 

    We have beautiful looking phones (although most competitive phones look just about as good), which look great in advertisements, but are so fragile that you have to place them in a case anyway, so you're never really seeing the phone as intended.   I can't tell you the number of times when I've seen someone handling their phone without a case and thinking, "oh..that's a really nice looking phone" and then realizing that I had the exact same model (but mine was in a case).   And while it's become less of a factor over time due to improvements in battery tech, it's ridiculous that an end-user can't replace the battery in an iPhone.    Would you buy a car in which the car had to be returned to the dealer to replace the tires, headlights or battery?   

    I actually hope that Ive doesn't have all that much involvement with Apple once he launches his new firm.   I think it's time for new blood and new ideas.   I hope the people taking over design at Apple have radically different ideas from Ive's.  
    Don’t expect new blood and new ideas from designers in this industry. If a breakthrough will occur that will happen at the core level and through a team of engineers and scientists. From breakthrough to the real product the designers will again be involved, but until that breakthrough occurs, consider the designers as jobless...
  • Reply 178 of 186
    mike54 said:
    It was Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive that were pushing for attention to detail, fine tolerances of construction and manufacturing.

    Bloomberg: "But after the Watch launched in 2015, Ive began to shed responsibilities."   It's by no coincidence that Apple has been having
    quality and design problems since that time.

    Also, for example, Johhny Ive did not design the update to the current Apple Magic Mouse, that one, with the charging port on the bottom.

    This.  Exactly.  His absence from certain elements of Apple's designs in recent years, explains the drop in quality because he was busy with other tasks to be involved. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 179 of 186
    And, of course, John “get off my lawn” Gruber begins the handwringing. 🤦🏻‍♂️

    And everyone in the tech press kissing his ass tweeting what a great piece it was. No actually it was hot garbage.
    Mossberg agrees with Gruber


    I do too. Pretty spot on.
  • Reply 180 of 186
    Sell your stocks folks....

    If you think Jony is the genius they purport him out to be then you must not know his past before we at NeXT arrived and saved Apple. The guy has a warehouse of bad ideas that went nowhere. Only after he met NeXT creative teams and Steve dictated several ideas did the ``boy genius'' surface.
    Ive was best when he had Steve around.  It's like those historical pairings of greatness, even though individually they may not have done as much.  We already lost Steve, of course it affected Ive's designs.  But It seems pretty obvious to me that this is indeed the end of an era for Apple.  I *DO* expect things will get worse from here, not better.  I mean, it has already been worse.  I'm already at the point that the Apple products I have now are likely to be my last, unless there's a shakeup and improvement.  And no offense to you and I assume you are stating that you worked for NeXT - but he did get the credit for designing great things.  Deal with it. (I say that with the well-roundedness of being a designer, a war vet, a father, and even ever so importantly as a CONSUMER of these products)
Sign In or Register to comment.