I absolutely think there's a market for foldable phones, just not this version, not yet. The typical use case is obvious, or should be. The concept is sound but this Samsung was a prototype/demo at best and just as obviously never should have shipped.
A foldable phone needs to be light and thin. Both of those metrics can be more than today's non-folders, because there will some compromise with the market willing to make some compromise for the larger screen. But even if this same Samsung were durable, it's just too thick and too heavy for 99.9% of those wanting a folder. Once the novelty wore off, this thing would be a brick. A functional brick, but still a brick.
LOL, I love it when people post the market and use for a folding phone is obvious, and then the person posting it doesn't explain what that user case is. Other than it being a cool gimmick what is the point of it?
I know lots of people say that it will be a phone and a tablet, but why do people really want that? I think that folding phones might really take off, but they need to something that existing products don't do. Think of the iPhone. When it was first rumored, it sounded very much like all it was going to be was a cell phone and an iPod combined. While such a product would have been nice, it wouldn't have been the earthshattering product it was and it's hard to imagine it toppling Blackberry. The phone was essentially a portable computer you could carry anywhere along with being a phone, an iPod, and a GPS device all rolled into one and then some. For folding phones to become something exciting enough to really discuss, there needs to something more than what we've seen.
Foldable phones need to be a Z so the correct dimensions work as a ph then as a tab. In other news, President Shameless tries new tac bleeding heart, proving he has insight into the things which constitute SS’s customer base. And a stupid cow at the Wrong Street Journal dresses up as a battery - more news at 11!
I think there is a lot of confusion here about folding phones as a concept and the two products from major manufacturers that we know are coming.
The biggest draw on the concept is for a folding phone to give you more screen space in a more 'pocketable' format.
I think on a conceptual level, most people would see the benefits of that and want them. They are huge.
The concept then has to move to an actual product where other considerations have to be taken into account. There are two implementations currently on the table.
A common problem to all folding phones will be the folding mechanism itself. Both Samsung and Huawei have spent years developing that single element and claim it to be good for over 100,000 folds.
After that, the screen itself and its covering come into focus. At this point, I am unaware of any 'self-healiing' properties to deal with scratches, so care and cases will be the norm. I don't really understand much of the fretting on this subject. Glass might not scratch as much (but still scratches) but absolutely breaks on just one fall if you get unlucky. I have lost count of the people I see using cracked glass screens on their phones. Folding phones may prove to be more drop resistant in this sense. I know what I would prefer if that were the only consideration.
Unfortunately, it isn't. Some people question the aspect ratio. This is irrelevant. Black bars on video content are irrelevant.
Check out any review review for MateBook X Pro laptop. The vast majority drool over the aspect ratio as it isn't a wide-screen aspect ratio. It is a 'step back' to 3:2 but people adore the change (even with black bars on video content).
Watching video content on either of the two folding phones will give you black bars. The same black bars you sometimes see while watching native content on your TV at home. It's a non issue because of what you gain.
Obviously your video content will use more screen than most current phones. A win.
That black space (in a phone context) can actually be used for other things, like urgent notifications, lyrics on music content etc.
However, most importantly it does something that most users would love to have: two phone screens visible at the same time. No split screens. The Fold can put up to three apps side by side.
Comparing these phones to tablets and bringing the state of Android tablets into the debate is also wrong. They are not (these two models) tablets. They are phones with tablet like screens. More similar to the phablet concept but no one brings the Android tablet situation into discussions on phablets.
Then comes gaming. A lot of people would have zero issues playing on a 'square' screen.
The same applies to any application that doesn't use a wide-screen aspect ratio for its native content.
Put a folding device in full screen mode next to any other non-folding phone and ask people to view their photo galleries and do retouching. Does anyone doubt the 'square' screen will be the preferred option? I think it's a question of mentality when it comes to aspect ratio but that the criticism doesn't hold up.
Then there are the knock on advantages. By placing most of the hardware in the grip area, Huawei allows the Mate X to be incredibly thin while unfolded but still 'thin' when closed. At approx 11mm at its thickest it isn't even what you would call bulky. However, that 'thickness' can allow for things like more advanced periscope lenses down the line.
Even using the front and back screens (on the Mate X) has advantages. Portrait subjects can see themselves as the photographer composes the shot.
There will be other less evident advantages that will be perceived as disadvantages. IP ratings for example. When was the last time your phone took a dunk? Never? Perhaps, in some situations, waterproofing is overkill. Splashproofing is fine for the vast majority of us. From early hands on reviews, it may be that the dual battery system on the Mate X could turn out to be easily replaceable.
There will be other, purely software related advantages too.
It is important to remember that these are first generation models. I'm optimistic that folding phones will end up being just another option in the phone realm and slowly get even better over time.
The questions today though, are more about durability and for that we have no option but to wait.
I absolutely think there's a market for foldable phones, just not this version, not yet. The typical use case is obvious, or should be. The concept is sound but this Samsung was a prototype/demo at best and just as obviously never should have shipped.
Just for clarity, what is the obvious use case?
Having a large display available while carrying a small form factor. Is that not obvious?It should be, even to the most casual observer. There have been many complaints from people who don't want to upgrade because of the increasing size of new phones.
No worry. AvonB7 will chime in shortly with his pro-Samsung stance.
My stance hasn't changed. I think there is a market for these devices.
A market for faulty devices that can't even survive hand picked units for a very limited journalist review. Got it.
That's a cheap shot, not worthy of you. The context is obvious.
Clearly nobody thinks this exact phone, as executed, is a good idea. So to be clear, I think there is a market for these devices, as long as they durable, not prohibitively thick or heavy to carry on a daily basis.
In furtherance of clarity, I realize thick and heavy are subjective, and may be 'durable'.
Generally speaking, to say a folding phone is a solution in search of a problem, or a product that nobody asked for, in ludicrous. That would apply to statements like 'Nobody needs a phone bigger than [.....]".
I may be one of those small market outliers, but if an SE could unfold making it twice as wide without being excessively thick or heavy while being durable, I'd be thrilled.
No worry. AvonB7 will chime in shortly with his pro-Samsung stance.
My stance hasn't changed. I think there is a market for these devices.
A market for faulty devices that can't even survive hand picked units for a very limited journalist review. Got it.
That's a cheap shot, not worthy of you. The context is obvious.
Clearly nobody thinks this exact phone, as executed, is a good idea. So to be clear, I think there is a market for these devices, as long as they durable, not prohibitively thick or heavy to carry on a daily basis.
In furtherance of clarity, I realize thick and heavy are subjective, and may be 'durable'.
Generally speaking, to say a folding phone is a solution in search of a problem, or a product that nobody asked for, in ludicrous. That would apply to statements like 'Nobody needs a phone bigger than [.....]".
I may be one of those small market outliers, but if an SE could unfold making it twice as wide without being excessively thick or heavy while being durable, I'd be thrilled.
No, he was very clear about how "this exact phone, as executed, is a good idea." Even after all the failed units and Samsung scrapping the release he still claimed how good that specific product was. If he stated months ago, "I see the potential for a folding display, but we aren't there yet," I'd like to see it.
Comments
I know lots of people say that it will be a phone and a tablet, but why do people really want that? I think that folding phones might really take off, but they need to something that existing products don't do. Think of the iPhone. When it was first rumored, it sounded very much like all it was going to be was a cell phone and an iPod combined. While such a product would have been nice, it wouldn't have been the earthshattering product it was and it's hard to imagine it toppling Blackberry. The phone was essentially a portable computer you could carry anywhere along with being a phone, an iPod, and a GPS device all rolled into one and then some. For folding phones to become something exciting enough to really discuss, there needs to something more than what we've seen.
The biggest draw on the concept is for a folding phone to give you more screen space in a more 'pocketable' format.
I think on a conceptual level, most people would see the benefits of that and want them.
They are huge.
The concept then has to move to an actual product where other considerations have to be taken into account. There are two implementations currently on the table.
A common problem to all folding phones will be the folding mechanism itself. Both Samsung and Huawei have spent years developing that single element and claim it to be good for over 100,000 folds.
After that, the screen itself and its covering come into focus. At this point, I am unaware of any 'self-healiing' properties to deal with scratches, so care and cases will be the norm. I don't really understand much of the fretting on this subject. Glass might not scratch as much (but still scratches) but absolutely breaks on just one fall if you get unlucky. I have lost count of the people I see using cracked glass screens on their phones. Folding phones may prove to be more drop resistant in this sense. I know what I would prefer if that were the only consideration.
Unfortunately, it isn't. Some people question the aspect ratio. This is irrelevant. Black bars on video content are irrelevant.
Check out any review review for MateBook X Pro laptop. The vast majority drool over the aspect ratio as it isn't a wide-screen aspect ratio. It is a 'step back' to 3:2 but people adore the change (even with black bars on video content).
Watching video content on either of the two folding phones will give you black bars. The same black bars you sometimes see while watching native content on your TV at home. It's a non issue because of what you gain.
Obviously your video content will use more screen than most current phones. A win.
That black space (in a phone context) can actually be used for other things, like urgent notifications, lyrics on music content etc.
However, most importantly it does something that most users would love to have: two phone screens visible at the same time. No split screens. The Fold can put up to three apps side by side.
Comparing these phones to tablets and bringing the state of Android tablets into the debate is also wrong. They are not (these two models) tablets. They are phones with tablet like screens. More similar to the phablet concept but no one brings the Android tablet situation into discussions on phablets.
Then comes gaming. A lot of people would have zero issues playing on a 'square' screen.
The same applies to any application that doesn't use a wide-screen aspect ratio for its native content.
Put a folding device in full screen mode next to any other non-folding phone and ask people to view their photo galleries and do retouching. Does anyone doubt the 'square' screen will be the preferred option? I think it's a question of mentality when it comes to aspect ratio but that the criticism doesn't hold up.
Then there are the knock on advantages. By placing most of the hardware in the grip area, Huawei allows the Mate X to be incredibly thin while unfolded but still 'thin' when closed. At approx 11mm at its thickest it isn't even what you would call bulky. However, that 'thickness' can allow for things like more advanced periscope lenses down the line.
Even using the front and back screens (on the Mate X) has advantages. Portrait subjects can see themselves as the photographer composes the shot.
There will be other less evident advantages that will be perceived as disadvantages. IP ratings for example. When was the last time your phone took a dunk? Never? Perhaps, in some situations, waterproofing is overkill. Splashproofing is fine for the vast majority of us. From early hands on reviews, it may be that the dual battery system on the Mate X could turn out to be easily replaceable.
There will be other, purely software related advantages too.
It is important to remember that these are first generation models. I'm optimistic that folding phones will end up being just another option in the phone realm and slowly get even better over time.
The questions today though, are more about durability and for that we have no option but to wait.
Hopefully they learn from this. Really.
That's a cheap shot, not worthy of you. The context is obvious.
Clearly nobody thinks this exact phone, as executed, is a good idea. So to be clear, I think there is a market for these devices, as long as they durable, not prohibitively thick or heavy to carry on a daily basis.
In furtherance of clarity, I realize thick and heavy are subjective, and may be 'durable'.
Generally speaking, to say a folding phone is a solution in search of a problem, or a product that nobody asked for, in ludicrous. That would apply to statements like 'Nobody needs a phone bigger than [.....]".
I may be one of those small market outliers, but if an SE could unfold making it twice as wide without being excessively thick or heavy while being durable, I'd be thrilled.