So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Trying to have a discussion with #GeorgeBMac is futile. He is obsessed with Trump hatred. That’s ALL he posts about. He probably entered therapy after the 2016 election but the counseling failed and he fell off the deep end. It could also be post-election PTSD. Whatever it is he’s non-functional now so it’s best to just block him.
LOL...
If your best defense of Trump's crazy, failing trade wars is to attack me, then you've pretty much proved my point.
Or are you going to fall back on the old standby's like: "they're a repressive regime". (Even though Trump LOVES repressive regimes)
"They stole our ip" (Even though Huawei leads the world in telecommunications and our tech companies WANT to do business with them!)
No, it's all nonsense. So, you best stick to attacking anybody critical of Trump and his nutsy policies.
Huawei stole our IP.
P.S. I'm not a Trump supporter so don't pull that card.
So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Yeh! They keep making things better and cheaper. Damn cheaters! Not fair!
If you don't think China is cheating by stealing IP or manipulating their currency, then you either haven't been paying attention to the news the past decade, or you're a plant for China.
No, I have been paying attention. That's why I'm calling bull -- just as virtually every other country in the world has done.
Lots of anti-China sentiment here from those haven't stepped foot in China and those that don't understand its past let alone the present, and from those that, unquestionably, get all their opinions from mainstream US/western media.
Anyway, China's labour costs have risen and corporations have been looking for alternatives to China way before Trump came on the scene. Its has nothing to do with trade imbalance, espionage or national security, it has all to do with corporate profits.
Oh, I’ve been there are many occasions. Theft of all kinds is rampant there. It’s baked into the culture.
So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Yeh! They keep making things better and cheaper. Damn cheaters! Not fair!
If you don't think China is cheating by stealing IP or manipulating their currency, then you either haven't been paying attention to the news the past decade, or you're a plant for China.
No, I have been paying attention. That's why I'm calling bull -- just as virtually every other country in the world has done.
Sorry mate, I have liked a lot of your previous posts but I can’t follow you on this one.
There is scant evidence of China manipulating its currency over the last few years, but regarding IP theft they stand guilty as charged. The rules for foreign businesses to sell in China or manufacture there are set up explicitly to facilitate IP theft. And if a foreign company wants to challenge the theft in the courts, the odds are stacked against them there as well.
So while I disagree with most of the things Trump does, standing up to China was necessary and I tip my hat to him for doing it. I just wish more of the international community understood the threat and got on board with some bolder action even if it means short term pain.
So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Trying to have a discussion with #GeorgeBMac is futile. He is obsessed with Trump hatred. That’s ALL he posts about. He probably entered therapy after the 2016 election but the counseling failed and he fell off the deep end. It could also be post-election PTSD. Whatever it is he’s non-functional now so it’s best to just block him.
LOL...
If your best defense of Trump's crazy, failing trade wars is to attack me, then you've pretty much proved my point.
Or are you going to fall back on the old standby's like: "they're a repressive regime". (Even though Trump LOVES repressive regimes)
"They stole our ip" (Even though Huawei leads the world in telecommunications and our tech companies WANT to do business with them!)
No, it's all nonsense. So, you best stick to attacking anybody critical of Trump and his nutsy policies.
Huawei stole our IP.
P.S. I'm not a Trump supporter so don't pull that card.
So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Yeh! They keep making things better and cheaper. Damn cheaters! Not fair!
If you don't think China is cheating by stealing IP or manipulating their currency, then you either haven't been paying attention to the news the past decade, or you're a plant for China.
No, I have been paying attention. That's why I'm calling bull -- just as virtually every other country in the world has done.
Sorry mate, I have liked a lot of your previous posts but I can’t follow you on this one.
There is scant evidence of China manipulating its currency over the last few years, but regarding IP theft they stand guilty as charged. The rules for foreign businesses to sell in China or manufacture there are set up explicitly to facilitate IP theft. And if a foreign company wants to challenge the theft in the courts, the odds are stacked against them there as well.
So while I disagree with most of the things Trump does, standing up to China was necessary and I tip my hat to him for doing it. I just wish more of the international community understood the threat and got on board with some bolder action even if it means short term pain.
Obviously that was a molehill made into a mountain. Do you seriously believe that a company would freely decide to give away their ip?
"Here Apple -- I'll buy your iPhone if you give me the source code to iOS". Yeh, right. They're going to jump right on that. If it were such a problem, nobody would be selling in China. But instead, they'er climbing all over each other to do just exactly that. Boy! They seem awfully anxious to hand over all those secretes -- Or more than likely whatever is going on is not a problem.
But, instead, through rhetoric, Trump and his right wing press have been blowing that horn till it became accepted as fact and as a national crisis. That's just how they work.
No, Trump has told over 11,000 lies to the American people so far. So, when he makes a claim, I expect he will back it up with some solid evidence. So far he has not been able to do that anytime his China claims were challenged.
Do I hate Trump? Not relevant. But I do hate him lying to us. A lot.
So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Yeh! They keep making things better and cheaper. Damn cheaters! Not fair!
If you don't think China is cheating by stealing IP or manipulating their currency, then you either haven't been paying attention to the news the past decade, or you're a plant for China.
No, I have been paying attention. That's why I'm calling bull -- just as virtually every other country in the world has done.
Sorry mate, I have liked a lot of your previous posts but I can’t follow you on this one.
There is scant evidence of China manipulating its currency over the last few years, but regarding IP theft they stand guilty as charged. The rules for foreign businesses to sell in China or manufacture there are set up explicitly to facilitate IP theft. And if a foreign company wants to challenge the theft in the courts, the odds are stacked against them there as well.
So while I disagree with most of the things Trump does, standing up to China was necessary and I tip my hat to him for doing it. I just wish more of the international community understood the threat and got on board with some bolder action even if it means short term pain.
Obviously that was a molehill made into a mountain. Do you seriously believe that a company would freely decide to give away their ip?
"Here Apple -- I'll buy your iPhone if you give me the source code to iOS". Yeh, right. They're going to jump right on that. If it were such a problem, nobody would be selling in China. But instead, they'er climbing all over each other to do just exactly that. Boy! They seem awfully anxious to hand over all those secretes -- Or more than likely whatever is going on is not a problem.
But, instead, through rhetoric, Trump and his right wing press have been blowing that horn till it became accepted as fact and as a national crisis. That's just how they work.
No, Trump has told over 11,000 lies to the American people so far. So, when he makes a claim, I expect he will back it up with some solid evidence. So far he has not been able to do that anytime his China claims were challenged.
Do I hate Trump? Not relevant. But I do hate him lying to us. A lot.
As I said I am not a fan of Trump or the fact that he lies so much even he can’t keep his lies straight anymore. But that is beside the point about IP theft.
I’m not sure if you realize, until just recently China has been starting to move on this issue, but in order for an outsider to go into China to manufacture anything to sell partly into the Chinese market it required them to partner 51/49% China’s way with a Chinese partner. Depending on the type of business, size of production, likelihood of a ton of profit will dictate wether the partner wore any of the setup costs or had a buy in to get their share of the company. Now also attached to this was that the partner has access to all of the intellectual IP that the international company was bringing into China for the manufacturing process. What would happen to these companies was that the partner usually didn’t set up in opposition but a close contact of the Chinese partner would, using all or some of the IP that the international company brought to the table.
This was also setup to be a very tough thing to prove in court, where the IP came from or how it wound up in the opposition companies hands other than from their own hard work to develop. If the international company wanted to contest it in the courts anyway, it was going to be really expensive. So the international company has to decide if the money spent on legal fees, with a long shot of getting a favorable verdict, is worth it to the company or cut their losses as “just part of doing business in China.” So for a lot of companies this equation still works out better for them to have access to the Chinese market even though they loose IP in the process.
But it doesn’t also stop the affected businessmen from lobbying their local congressmen to change the status quo. If there is enough pressure brought to the politicians then they start to act, but what has happened during the Trump administration is that the bureaucrats have also applied pressure. And with a president who leans towards, to put it nicely “doesn’t like China”, means action on this issue is more likely to happen. Now we are left with the sh.. storm that is the trade war with China.
I am not justifying this action. Do I think that there could possibly have been other ways of getting to the same place, yes, but it would need to be equally strong in its shock/impact value. If not it is unlikely to register with China, to their culture talk is weak as they only respect strong action. That is one of the ways that the IP theft has been occurring and this is not limited as a US problem only.
So we are moving production out of the highest quality, lowest cost facilities in order to support a failing, trumped up trade war?
As Winston Churchill pointed out: "Americans always do the right thing -- after they've tried everything else"
It is not about Trump. It’s about communist China that will never play fair to anyone.
Yeh! They keep making things better and cheaper. Damn cheaters! Not fair!
If you don't think China is cheating by stealing IP or manipulating their currency, then you either haven't been paying attention to the news the past decade, or you're a plant for China.
No, I have been paying attention. That's why I'm calling bull -- just as virtually every other country in the world has done.
Sorry mate, I have liked a lot of your previous posts but I can’t follow you on this one.
There is scant evidence of China manipulating its currency over the last few years, but regarding IP theft they stand guilty as charged. The rules for foreign businesses to sell in China or manufacture there are set up explicitly to facilitate IP theft. And if a foreign company wants to challenge the theft in the courts, the odds are stacked against them there as well.
So while I disagree with most of the things Trump does, standing up to China was necessary and I tip my hat to him for doing it. I just wish more of the international community understood the threat and got on board with some bolder action even if it means short term pain.
Obviously that was a molehill made into a mountain. Do you seriously believe that a company would freely decide to give away their ip?
"Here Apple -- I'll buy your iPhone if you give me the source code to iOS". Yeh, right. They're going to jump right on that. If it were such a problem, nobody would be selling in China. But instead, they'er climbing all over each other to do just exactly that. Boy! They seem awfully anxious to hand over all those secretes -- Or more than likely whatever is going on is not a problem.
But, instead, through rhetoric, Trump and his right wing press have been blowing that horn till it became accepted as fact and as a national crisis. That's just how they work.
No, Trump has told over 11,000 lies to the American people so far. So, when he makes a claim, I expect he will back it up with some solid evidence. So far he has not been able to do that anytime his China claims were challenged.
Do I hate Trump? Not relevant. But I do hate him lying to us. A lot.
As I said I am not a fan of Trump or the fact that he lies so much even he can’t keep his lies straight anymore. But that is beside the point about IP theft.
I’m not sure if you realize, until just recently China has been starting to move on this issue, but in order for an outsider to go into China to manufacture anything to sell partly into the Chinese market it required them to partner 51/49% China’s way with a Chinese partner. Depending on the type of business, size of production, likelihood of a ton of profit will dictate wether the partner wore any of the setup costs or had a buy in to get their share of the company. Now also attached to this was that the partner has access to all of the intellectual IP that the international company was bringing into China for the manufacturing process. What would happen to these companies was that the partner usually didn’t set up in opposition but a close contact of the Chinese partner would, using all or some of the IP that the international company brought to the table.
This was also setup to be a very tough thing to prove in court, where the IP came from or how it wound up in the opposition companies hands other than from their own hard work to develop. If the international company wanted to contest it in the courts anyway, it was going to be really expensive. So the international company has to decide if the money spent on legal fees, with a long shot of getting a favorable verdict, is worth it to the company or cut their losses as “just part of doing business in China.” So for a lot of companies this equation still works out better for them to have access to the Chinese market even though they loose IP in the process.
But it doesn’t also stop the affected businessmen from lobbying their local congressmen to change the status quo. If there is enough pressure brought to the politicians then they start to act, but what has happened during the Trump administration is that the bureaucrats have also applied pressure. And with a president who leans towards, to put it nicely “doesn’t like China”, means action on this issue is more likely to happen. Now we are left with the sh.. storm that is the trade war with China.
I am not justifying this action. Do I think that there could possibly have been other ways of getting to the same place, yes, but it would need to be equally strong in its shock/impact value. If not it is unlikely to register with China, to their culture talk is weak as they only respect strong action. That is one of the ways that the IP theft has been occurring and this is not limited as a US problem only.
That's a good explanation. But it's a fairly common arrangement in developing countries to prevent the rich and powerful from moving in and taking control -- as in a neo-colonialism. Likewise, nobody is forcing anybody to accept that deal. They accept it because it is best for them -- not because anybody held a gun to their head. And, it appears to be limited to those investing directly into the country --- such as opening a mine or steel mill.
But regardless, that is irrelevant to Trump's trade war and to trade itself with China: Google, Microsoft and Apple for instance, obviously did not give anybody 51% of the company and neither did they hand over any ip. Instead, they and others are petitioning Trump to end this nonsense.
So the ip theft thing sounds to me to be mostly pumped up hype to give Trump's propaganda machine a talking point and rally the base.
Just to be clear, the quality of the product is not dictated or controlled by the country it is made in, but the the company making the product. Apple has the highest quality product not because it's made in China but because Apple knows how to design a quality product and demands it's manufactures meet their standards. There is still lots poor quality products coming out of China, just read Amazon reviews.
Just to be clear, the quality of the product is not dictated or controlled by the country it is made in, but the the company making the product. Apple has the highest quality product not because it's made in China but because Apple knows how to design a quality product and demands it's manufactures meet their standards. There is still lots poor quality products coming out of China, just read Amazon reviews.
Demanding and getting are two different thngs. The analogy is back in the 80's when people started looking at the seams on the "cheap Japanese knock-off cars" and unllke the wide, uneven seams on Amercan cars, theirs were tight and even.
And, Asian factories have been outproducing American factories ever since -- both in cost, timeliness -- and quality.
It's why protectonist tariffs failed in the 80's and it's why they will fail again 40 years later -- the Asian factories do it better, cheaper, and faster.
Comments
Huawei stole our IP.
P.S. I'm not a Trump supporter so don't pull that card.
Of course not....
There is scant evidence of China manipulating its currency over the last few years, but regarding IP theft they stand guilty as charged. The rules for foreign businesses to sell in China or manufacture there are set up explicitly to facilitate IP theft. And if a foreign company wants to challenge the theft in the courts, the odds are stacked against them there as well.
So while I disagree with most of the things Trump does, standing up to China was necessary and I tip my hat to him for doing it. I just wish more of the international community understood the threat and got on board with some bolder action even if it means short term pain.
Obviously that was a molehill made into a mountain. Do you seriously believe that a company would freely decide to give away their ip?
I’m not sure if you realize, until just recently China has been starting to move on this issue, but in order for an outsider to go into China to manufacture anything to sell partly into the Chinese market it required them to partner 51/49% China’s way with a Chinese partner. Depending on the type of business, size of production, likelihood of a ton of profit will dictate wether the partner wore any of the setup costs or had a buy in to get their share of the company. Now also attached to this was that the partner has access to all of the intellectual IP that the international company was bringing into China for the manufacturing process. What would happen to these companies was that the partner usually didn’t set up in opposition but a close contact of the Chinese partner would, using all or some of the IP that the international company brought to the table.
This was also setup to be a very tough thing to prove in court, where the IP came from or how it wound up in the opposition companies hands other than from their own hard work to develop. If the international company wanted to contest it in the courts anyway, it was going to be really expensive. So the international company has to decide if the money spent on legal fees, with a long shot of getting a favorable verdict, is worth it to the company or cut their losses as “just part of doing business in China.” So for a lot of companies this equation still works out better for them to have access to the Chinese market even though they loose IP in the process.
But it doesn’t also stop the affected businessmen from lobbying their local congressmen to change the status quo. If there is enough pressure brought to the politicians then they start to act, but what has happened during the Trump administration is that the bureaucrats have also applied pressure. And with a president who leans towards, to put it nicely “doesn’t like China”, means action on this issue is more likely to happen. Now we are left with the sh.. storm that is the trade war with China.
I am not justifying this action. Do I think that there could possibly have been other ways of getting to the same place, yes, but it would need to be equally strong in its shock/impact value. If not it is unlikely to register with China, to their culture talk is weak as they only respect strong action. That is one of the ways that the IP theft has been occurring and this is not limited as a US problem only.
But regardless, that is irrelevant to Trump's trade war and to trade itself with China: Google, Microsoft and Apple for instance, obviously did not give anybody 51% of the company and neither did they hand over any ip. Instead, they and others are petitioning Trump to end this nonsense.
So the ip theft thing sounds to me to be mostly pumped up hype to give Trump's propaganda machine a talking point and rally the base.
The analogy is back in the 80's when people started looking at the seams on the "cheap Japanese knock-off cars" and unllke the wide, uneven seams on Amercan cars, theirs were tight and even.
And, Asian factories have been outproducing American factories ever since -- both in cost, timeliness -- and quality.
It's why protectonist tariffs failed in the 80's and it's why they will fail again 40 years later -- the Asian factories do it better, cheaper, and faster.
Chanting "USA! USA! USA!" doesn't change that.