Guys I can’t believe all this merry go round of Huawei did or did not do X and you conveniently leave out the really pertinent facts.
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
2. Employee of Huawei in Poland was caught soliciting intelligence secrets. Upon being caught, Huawei denied any knowledge and sacked the guy. So now their record of being involved in intelligence gathering is clean, according to Huawei, because the guy doesn’t work for them anymore.
3. It is more than just the American Intelligence agencies that are ringing the bell of the Huawei/5G problem. Australia was the first to raise the red flag, sorry about the pun, on the problems with Chinese communications companies supplying the 5G infrastructure and the possible problems it could create. So if you don’t trust the US agencies advice, trust the Australian Intelligence agencies work, especially as they had to raise the alarm to the American counterparts first before the US agencies started to run with it.
4. The big issue with Huawei and any other company in China is the Chinese law. It clearly states that the government of China has the ability to take over or insist on certain actions be fulfilled by any company and the affected company has no right of refusal or reply against the government and has to remain silent about the request. There is no equivalent law in other democracies around the world and I t is this law that makes the whole 5G situation untenable. If the CCP changed this law it might make things a little easier, but now the trust has been broken it is hard to gain back to the same level without a lot of work on the CCP’s side to build that trust back up.
I’m not going to post links to substantiate the above points, it is easy enough to search for the references yourself if you’re interested. Now go back to your respective corners and start slinging mud.
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
Guys I can’t believe all this merry go round of Huawei did or did not do X and you conveniently leave out the really pertinent facts.
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
2. Employee of Huawei in Poland was caught soliciting intelligence secrets. Upon being caught, Huawei denied any knowledge and sacked the guy. So now their record of being involved in intelligence gathering is clean, according to Huawei, because the guy doesn’t work for them anymore.
3. It is more than just the American Intelligence agencies that are ringing the bell of the Huawei/5G problem. Australia was the first to raise the red flag, sorry about the pun, on the problems with Chinese communications companies supplying the 5G infrastructure and the possible problems it could create. So if you don’t trust the US agencies advice, trust the Australian Intelligence agencies work, especially as they had to raise the alarm to the American counterparts first before the US agencies started to run with it.
4. The big issue with Huawei and any other company in China is the Chinese law. It clearly states that the government of China has the ability to take over or insist on certain actions be fulfilled by any company and the affected company has no right of refusal or reply against the government and has to remain silent about the request. There is no equivalent law in other democracies around the world and I t is this law that makes the whole 5G situation untenable. If the CCP changed this law it might make things a little easier, but now the trust has been broken it is hard to gain back to the same level without a lot of work on the CCP’s side to build that trust back up.
I’m not going to post links to substantiate the above points, it is easy enough to search for the references yourself if you’re interested. Now go back to your respective corners and start slinging mud.
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
You shouldn’t just “find it amazing”.
Instead, you should find the sheer intellectual dishonesty of it all — and the dissemblers who show up to create a pure world of FUD (you know who they are in these forums) — to be utterly disgusting.
Guys I can’t believe all this merry go round of Huawei did or did not do X and you conveniently leave out the really pertinent facts.
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
2. Employee of Huawei in Poland was caught soliciting intelligence secrets. Upon being caught, Huawei denied any knowledge and sacked the guy. So now their record of being involved in intelligence gathering is clean, according to Huawei, because the guy doesn’t work for them anymore.
3. It is more than just the American Intelligence agencies that are ringing the bell of the Huawei/5G problem. Australia was the first to raise the red flag, sorry about the pun, on the problems with Chinese communications companies supplying the 5G infrastructure and the possible problems it could create. So if you don’t trust the US agencies advice, trust the Australian Intelligence agencies work, especially as they had to raise the alarm to the American counterparts first before the US agencies started to run with it.
4. The big issue with Huawei and any other company in China is the Chinese law. It clearly states that the government of China has the ability to take over or insist on certain actions be fulfilled by any company and the affected company has no right of refusal or reply against the government and has to remain silent about the request. There is no equivalent law in other democracies around the world and I t is this law that makes the whole 5G situation untenable. If the CCP changed this law it might make things a little easier, but now the trust has been broken it is hard to gain back to the same level without a lot of work on the CCP’s side to build that trust back up.
I’m not going to post links to substantiate the above points, it is easy enough to search for the references yourself if you’re interested. Now go back to your respective corners and start slinging mud.
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
You shouldn’t just “find it amazing”.
Instead, you should find the sheer intellectual dishonesty of it all — and the dissemblers who show up to create a pure world of FUD (you know who they are in these forums) — to be utterly disgusting.
Guys I can’t believe all this merry go round of Huawei did or did not do X and you conveniently leave out the really pertinent facts.
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
2. Employee of Huawei in Poland was caught soliciting intelligence secrets. Upon being caught, Huawei denied any knowledge and sacked the guy. So now their record of being involved in intelligence gathering is clean, according to Huawei, because the guy doesn’t work for them anymore.
3. It is more than just the American Intelligence agencies that are ringing the bell of the Huawei/5G problem. Australia was the first to raise the red flag, sorry about the pun, on the problems with Chinese communications companies supplying the 5G infrastructure and the possible problems it could create. So if you don’t trust the US agencies advice, trust the Australian Intelligence agencies work, especially as they had to raise the alarm to the American counterparts first before the US agencies started to run with it.
4. The big issue with Huawei and any other company in China is the Chinese law. It clearly states that the government of China has the ability to take over or insist on certain actions be fulfilled by any company and the affected company has no right of refusal or reply against the government and has to remain silent about the request. There is no equivalent law in other democracies around the world and I t is this law that makes the whole 5G situation untenable. If the CCP changed this law it might make things a little easier, but now the trust has been broken it is hard to gain back to the same level without a lot of work on the CCP’s side to build that trust back up.
I’m not going to post links to substantiate the above points, it is easy enough to search for the references yourself if you’re interested. Now go back to your respective corners and start slinging mud.
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
Re-read my link.
The link you have posted is to the very same article my link takes issue with and quotes Vodafone directly.
The 'distorting' was done by Bloomberg. Unfortunately, you took that and ran with it. You didn't stop to wait for the information to be contrasted in any way. You just took it as 'true', probably because you wanted it to be true.
As it is, the Bloomberg piece was taken apart on the same day it was released. How did you miss that?
I suppose the logical question here is, who is distorting the facts?
Here is what you said:
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
So, your choice of words, "backdoor" really sets out your stall. It was Telnet and wasn't accessible from the internet. Are you now going to claim that everyone using Telnet (perhaps the vast majority of telcos) has planted backdoors?
Guys I can’t believe all this merry go round of Huawei did or did not do X and you conveniently leave out the really pertinent facts.
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
2. Employee of Huawei in Poland was caught soliciting intelligence secrets. Upon being caught, Huawei denied any knowledge and sacked the guy. So now their record of being involved in intelligence gathering is clean, according to Huawei, because the guy doesn’t work for them anymore.
3. It is more than just the American Intelligence agencies that are ringing the bell of the Huawei/5G problem. Australia was the first to raise the red flag, sorry about the pun, on the problems with Chinese communications companies supplying the 5G infrastructure and the possible problems it could create. So if you don’t trust the US agencies advice, trust the Australian Intelligence agencies work, especially as they had to raise the alarm to the American counterparts first before the US agencies started to run with it.
4. The big issue with Huawei and any other company in China is the Chinese law. It clearly states that the government of China has the ability to take over or insist on certain actions be fulfilled by any company and the affected company has no right of refusal or reply against the government and has to remain silent about the request. There is no equivalent law in other democracies around the world and I t is this law that makes the whole 5G situation untenable. If the CCP changed this law it might make things a little easier, but now the trust has been broken it is hard to gain back to the same level without a lot of work on the CCP’s side to build that trust back up.
I’m not going to post links to substantiate the above points, it is easy enough to search for the references yourself if you’re interested. Now go back to your respective corners and start slinging mud.
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
Oh, the same Bloomberg that found rice-sized spychips in Apple servers? THAT Bloomberg? When you come across a story that seems to support your beliefs it might not actually be the end of the story. Always keep reading and researching, particularly if it's something important to you.
Guys I can’t believe all this merry go round of Huawei did or did not do X and you conveniently leave out the really pertinent facts.
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
2. Employee of Huawei in Poland was caught soliciting intelligence secrets. Upon being caught, Huawei denied any knowledge and sacked the guy. So now their record of being involved in intelligence gathering is clean, according to Huawei, because the guy doesn’t work for them anymore.
3. It is more than just the American Intelligence agencies that are ringing the bell of the Huawei/5G problem. Australia was the first to raise the red flag, sorry about the pun, on the problems with Chinese communications companies supplying the 5G infrastructure and the possible problems it could create. So if you don’t trust the US agencies advice, trust the Australian Intelligence agencies work, especially as they had to raise the alarm to the American counterparts first before the US agencies started to run with it.
4. The big issue with Huawei and any other company in China is the Chinese law. It clearly states that the government of China has the ability to take over or insist on certain actions be fulfilled by any company and the affected company has no right of refusal or reply against the government and has to remain silent about the request. There is no equivalent law in other democracies around the world and I t is this law that makes the whole 5G situation untenable. If the CCP changed this law it might make things a little easier, but now the trust has been broken it is hard to gain back to the same level without a lot of work on the CCP’s side to build that trust back up.
I’m not going to post links to substantiate the above points, it is easy enough to search for the references yourself if you’re interested. Now go back to your respective corners and start slinging mud.
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
Oh, the same Bloomberg that found rice-sized spychips in Apple servers? THAT Bloomberg? When you come across a story that seems to support your beliefs it might not actually be the end of the story. Always keep reading and researching, particularly if it's something important to you.
The biggest, most blatant fallacy seems to be the black and white, all true / untrue thinking of some who base their beliefs on a single story, headline or soundbite without ever looking at the other side of the coin -- as in "the truth, the WHOLE truth and....".
In the case of both Bloomberg articles, they were merely reporting what had been said, done and suspected rather than trying to build a case. But many have become so used to the FauxNews style that starts with the belief and then backs into whatever "facts" support that belief that they think every media outlet does the same.
And, as an aside, the Bloomberg article you site never said the supposed spychips
were on Apple Servers -- although that became a popular take-away.
Actually, at that point in time, Apple was just getting into cloud and
was piggy backing on AWS servers (which were the main ones sited in the article).
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
So, as I stated, Ren basically lied about Apple being his privacy role model. Ren certainly hasn't been advocating for Huawei user privacy, and given that Huawei is also providing security systems to the Chinese Government, it's understandable why Ren wouldn't do so.
You might want to stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government, and for their SOE, Huawei.
For the record, I am being realistic, hence why I posted about the protestors in Hong Kong. Realistically, Hong Kong has everything to lose when they are assimilated by China.
BTW, unrelated extradition of a Chinese National for helping his scientist sister steal IP from Glaxo...
Next up, China detains two Swiss nationals for "spying", just like they did for the two Canadian Nationals when Meng Wanzhou was detained for extradition.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
So, as I stated, Ren basically lied about Apple being his privacy role model. Ren certainly hasn't been advocating for Huawei user privacy, and given that Huawei is also providing security systems to the Chinese Government, it's understandable why Ren wouldn't do so.
You might want to stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government, and for their SOE, Huawei.
For the record, I am being realistic, hence why I posted about the protestors in Hong Kong. Realistically, Hong Kong has everything to lose when they are assimilated by China.
Your 'basic freedoms' was limited to Hong Kong? Who is lying now? You are not being realistic.
As for Ren, it is probably lip service but you can't know if he's lying. You just don't know.
As for privacy and Huawei, what do you know about that? Little to nothing?
Privacy has been a cornerstone of every recent project design and they comply with all the major security/privacy certifications. Why not watch a keynote from time to time and see for yourself?
And for Airdrop, your ignorance on the subject hit new highs. Huawei already has AirDrop functionality! What were you saying about Ren allowing that to happen?
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I accept your apology and I’ll move on.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I accept your apology and I’ll move on.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
The point on U.S civil liberties was simply to highlight that even in the U.S, things were far from perfect a relatively short time ago. Therefore 'basic freedoms' won't be on a par with what the U.S or many other governments have any time soon and hoping for that kind of change to happen quickly, isn't realistic.
However, in spite of slowness in some areas, staggering progress has been made all over China and lots of it for the better. The reason that the rest of the world does business with China, and doesn't try to isolate it, is because isolation would not be very helpful for anyone. The rest of the world also understands that massive, rapid change on civil liberties is also unrealistic.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I accept your apology and I’ll move on.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
The point on U.S civil liberties was simply to highlight that even in the U.S, things were far from perfect a relatively short time ago. Therefore 'basic freedoms' won't be on a par with what the U.S or many other governments have any time soon and hoping for that kind of change to happen quickly, isn't realistic.
However, in spite of slowness in some areas, staggering progress has been made all over China and lots of it for the better. The reason that the rest of the world does business with China, and doesn't try to isolate it, is because isolation would not be very helpful for anyone. The rest of the world also understands that massive, rapid change on civil liberties is also unrealistic.
What the fuck...
Can you at least stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government. By all measures of civil liberties, China is regressing under Xi Jinping;
"The announcement on Sunday that China would abolish the two-term limit for the presidency, effectively foreshadowing current leader Xi Jinping’s likely status as president for life, had been predicted ever since Xi failed to nominate a clear successor at last October’s Communist Party Congress. But it still came as a shock in a country where the collective leadership established under Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s was once considered inviolable. Xi, like every leader since Deng, combines a trinity of roles that embody the three pillars of power in China: party chairman, president, and head of the Central Military Commission. But like every leader since Deng, he was once expected to hand these over after his appointed decade, letting one generation of leadership pass smoothly on to the next.
It’s virtually impossible to gauge public opinion in China, especially as censorship has gripped ever tighter online. But among Chinese I know, including those used to defending China’s system, the move caused dismay and a fair amount of gallows humor involving references to “Emperor Pooh” and “West Korea.”
U.S. President Donald Trump’s electoral victory in 2016 similarly prompted rounds of reflection about and criticism of American democracy. But the Chinese case merits significantly more alarm. For all the erosion of norms under Trump, he seems unlikely, despite the fears of some, to fundamentally change the way the United States is governed. Xi, meanwhile, appears to have entirely transformed Chinese politics from collective autocracy to what’s looking increasingly like one-man rule. This switch should leave everyone very worried, both inside and outside China. A country that once seemed to be clumsily lurching toward new freedoms has regressed sharply into full-blown dictatorship — of a kind that’s likely to lead to dangerous and unfixable mistakes.
The Chinese Constitution itself is a largely meaningless document, promising as it does freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and personal privacy. Amendments are frequent, proposed by a committee of “experts” and rubber-stamped by the National People’s Congress, China’s annual — and equally meaningless — parliament. Brave efforts to give the constitution genuine significance were crushed, as with any other attempt to curtail party power, in the early years of Xi’s rule.
Please, just shut the fuck up about China. Your ignorance about the current governance of China is embarrassing, and dangerously naive.
For the record, the U.S. passed the Civil Rights act in 1965, ten years before General Francisco Franco died in office, releasing Spain from the grips of dictatorship. You might want to remember that when you're making your comparison.
I would also note that it is China that is isolates itself from the world, not allowing its citizens access to the rest of the world's Internet, filtered by the Great Firewall.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I accept your apology and I’ll move on.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
The point on U.S civil liberties was simply to highlight that even in the U.S, things were far from perfect a relatively short time ago. Therefore 'basic freedoms' won't be on a par with what the U.S or many other governments have any time soon and hoping for that kind of change to happen quickly, isn't realistic.
However, in spite of slowness in some areas, staggering progress has been made all over China and lots of it for the better. The reason that the rest of the world does business with China, and doesn't try to isolate it, is because isolation would not be very helpful for anyone. The rest of the world also understands that massive, rapid change on civil liberties is also unrealistic.
What the fuck...
Can you at least stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government. By all measures of civil liberties, China is regressing under Xi Jinping;
"The announcement on Sunday that China would abolish the two-term limit for the presidency, effectively foreshadowing current leader Xi Jinping’s likely status as president for life, had been predicted ever since Xi failed to nominate a clear successor at last October’s Communist Party Congress. But it still came as a shock in a country where the collective leadership established under Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s was once considered inviolable. Xi, like every leader since Deng, combines a trinity of roles that embody the three pillars of power in China: party chairman, president, and head of the Central Military Commission. But like every leader since Deng, he was once expected to hand these over after his appointed decade, letting one generation of leadership pass smoothly on to the next.
It’s virtually impossible to gauge public opinion in China, especially as censorship has gripped ever tighter online. But among Chinese I know, including those used to defending China’s system, the move caused dismay and a fair amount of gallows humor involving references to “Emperor Pooh” and “West Korea.”
U.S. President Donald Trump’s electoral victory in 2016 similarly prompted rounds of reflection about and criticism of American democracy. But the Chinese case merits significantly more alarm. For all the erosion of norms under Trump, he seems unlikely, despite the fears of some, to fundamentally change the way the United States is governed. Xi, meanwhile, appears to have entirely transformed Chinese politics from collective autocracy to what’s looking increasingly like one-man rule. This switch should leave everyone very worried, both inside and outside China. A country that once seemed to be clumsily lurching toward new freedoms has regressed sharply into full-blown dictatorship — of a kind that’s likely to lead to dangerous and unfixable mistakes.
The Chinese Constitution itself is a largely meaningless document, promising as it does freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and personal privacy. Amendments are frequent, proposed by a committee of “experts” and rubber-stamped by the National People’s Congress, China’s annual — and equally meaningless — parliament. Brave efforts to give the constitution genuine significance were crushed, as with any other attempt to curtail party power, in the early years of Xi’s rule.
Please, just shut the fuck up about China. Your ignorance about the current governance of China is embarrassing, and dangerously naive.
Do you honestly think anyone will do anything about that? Do you think the rest of the world will cut itself off from China? Is everyone an 'apologist' for recognising that no change (much less forced change) is coming any time soon?
No. Of course not.
However, in spite of the current situation, there is no denying that China has experienced staggering change for the better over the last 30 years.
Obfuscation on a few points and stating the obvious won't make things move any faster. Your own government, far from backing away from China, is actively seeking a trade deal with the country!
It's time to be realistic.
And once again Huawei got lost in your word soup.
Weren't you telling me minutes ago that Ren would never allow an AirDrop capability on Huawei or Honor phones - completely unaware that it already existed!?
No doubt your last post was simply to distract people away from that, right?
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I accept your apology and I’ll move on.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
The point on U.S civil liberties was simply to highlight that even in the U.S, things were far from perfect a relatively short time ago. Therefore 'basic freedoms' won't be on a par with what the U.S or many other governments have any time soon and hoping for that kind of change to happen quickly, isn't realistic.
However, in spite of slowness in some areas, staggering progress has been made all over China and lots of it for the better. The reason that the rest of the world does business with China, and doesn't try to isolate it, is because isolation would not be very helpful for anyone. The rest of the world also understands that massive, rapid change on civil liberties is also unrealistic.
I am part of the rest of the world being located in Australia. And yes our view on China is uniquely our own, and unfortunately from a political view, completely self serving. The mixed messages our government sends is unbelievable at times, but the general theme is we can be bought off with money in the form of direct investment or greater access to their markets.
The problem with China is that they want to be not just at the big boys/girls table but sitting at its head with all the pomp and benefits it entails. But they don’t want to put the work in to get there on their own terms, as well as not wanting to take on the responsibilities as a good global citizen along the way. This is why they act like the bully boy in the playground, ignoring the rules when it suits them, taking what they want, acting as a stand over country to force what they want and giving back only when there is something in it for themselves. This may sound harsh, however I do want the best for China and what they could do for the the world at large if they chose to but that is not the behavior I see on the world stage(and yes politics both domestic and foreign is what I invest my spare time in, not technology). On the current trajectory I hold grave fears for the people of China and the Asia/Pacific, Australia included, as I can see all the diversity in the region being strangled out by an authoritarian government that has no conscience and is hell bent on expansion.
A group of countries need to stand up to China’s behavior but at this stage I can’t see it happening especially with the foreign affairs train wreck that is the Trump administration. It would nice to see a group standing up to China and saying its behavior is not acceptable along with their being consequences to their actions. I know that is what the trade war with the US and China is supposed to be about, but I have to wonder if there couldn’t be some other strategy that could be employed that didn’t involve so much collateral damage to the world and US economies.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I accept your apology and I’ll move on.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
The point on U.S civil liberties was simply to highlight that even in the U.S, things were far from perfect a relatively short time ago. Therefore 'basic freedoms' won't be on a par with what the U.S or many other governments have any time soon and hoping for that kind of change to happen quickly, isn't realistic.
However, in spite of slowness in some areas, staggering progress has been made all over China and lots of it for the better. The reason that the rest of the world does business with China, and doesn't try to isolate it, is because isolation would not be very helpful for anyone. The rest of the world also understands that massive, rapid change on civil liberties is also unrealistic.
What the fuck...
Can you at least stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government. By all measures of civil liberties, China is regressing under Xi Jinping;
"The announcement on Sunday that China would abolish the two-term limit for the presidency, effectively foreshadowing current leader Xi Jinping’s likely status as president for life, had been predicted ever since Xi failed to nominate a clear successor at last October’s Communist Party Congress. But it still came as a shock in a country where the collective leadership established under Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s was once considered inviolable. Xi, like every leader since Deng, combines a trinity of roles that embody the three pillars of power in China: party chairman, president, and head of the Central Military Commission. But like every leader since Deng, he was once expected to hand these over after his appointed decade, letting one generation of leadership pass smoothly on to the next.
It’s virtually impossible to gauge public opinion in China, especially as censorship has gripped ever tighter online. But among Chinese I know, including those used to defending China’s system, the move caused dismay and a fair amount of gallows humor involving references to “Emperor Pooh” and “West Korea.”
U.S. President Donald Trump’s electoral victory in 2016 similarly prompted rounds of reflection about and criticism of American democracy. But the Chinese case merits significantly more alarm. For all the erosion of norms under Trump, he seems unlikely, despite the fears of some, to fundamentally change the way the United States is governed. Xi, meanwhile, appears to have entirely transformed Chinese politics from collective autocracy to what’s looking increasingly like one-man rule. This switch should leave everyone very worried, both inside and outside China. A country that once seemed to be clumsily lurching toward new freedoms has regressed sharply into full-blown dictatorship — of a kind that’s likely to lead to dangerous and unfixable mistakes.
The Chinese Constitution itself is a largely meaningless document, promising as it does freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and personal privacy. Amendments are frequent, proposed by a committee of “experts” and rubber-stamped by the National People’s Congress, China’s annual — and equally meaningless — parliament. Brave efforts to give the constitution genuine significance were crushed, as with any other attempt to curtail party power, in the early years of Xi’s rule.
Please, just shut the fuck up about China. Your ignorance about the current governance of China is embarrassing, and dangerously naive.
Do you honestly think anyone will do anything about that? Do you think the rest of the world will cut itself off from China? Is everyone an 'apologist' for recognising that no change (much less forced change) is coming any time soon?
No. Of course not.
However, in spite of the current situation, there is no denying that China has experienced staggering change for the better over the last 30 years.
Obfuscation on a few points and stating the obvious won't make things move any faster. Your own government, far from backing away from China, is actively seeking a trade deal with the country!
It's time to be realistic.
And once again Huawei got lost in your word soup.
Weren't you telling me minutes ago that Ren would never allow an AirDrop capability on Huawei or Honor phones - completely unaware that it already existed!?
No doubt your last post was simply to distract people away from that, right?
You seem unable to understand that much of the resistance to Huawei in telecom is in fact linked to actions of the Chinese Government under Xi Jinping. That there are countries in Europe that are willing to undermine their own security for cheaper 5G, including Spain, is obvious, and Secretary of State Michael Pompeii has stated that the U.S. would change the way that they coordinate on intelligence with countries that use Huawei for their 5G. I do not think that is an idle threat.
I was, in fact unaware that Huawei had the equivalent of Airdrop, but that doesn't change the fact that Ren is lying about Apple being his model of privacy, given that there is no guarantee of privacy in China.
More to the point, you seem unable to understand the significance of the protests over extradition legislation in Hong Kong. In essence, China would be able to extradite anyone in Hong Kong to the mainland, even including persons that merely traveled through Hong Kong. Hence why protestors were using Airdrop to educate Mainlanders.
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
You are still mixing a lot of things up.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You have got to be kidding!
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Believe me. I am not kidding. The change has been staggering.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
I just read an article the other day of state driver's license databases being milked by government agencies to feed facial recognition software.
Comments
I find it amazing the lengths people will go to, to distort the facts to support their argument. Instead of just saying “interesting” and changing their point of view accordingly.
Instead, you should find the sheer intellectual dishonesty of it all — and the dissemblers who show up to create a pure world of FUD (you know who they are in these forums) — to be utterly disgusting.
The link you have posted is to the very same article my link takes issue with and quotes Vodafone directly.
The 'distorting' was done by Bloomberg. Unfortunately, you took that and ran with it. You didn't stop to wait for the information to be contrasted in any way. You just took it as 'true', probably because you wanted it to be true.
As it is, the Bloomberg piece was taken apart on the same day it was released. How did you miss that?
I suppose the logical question here is, who is distorting the facts?
Here is what you said:
1. Huawei was caught with backdoors into the modem software that they supplied to the Italian Vodaphone. When asked about it Huawei’s response at first was to deny it happened, then when proof was brought to the table their response changed to “oh that one, it is old and we wouldn’t use it anyway. Trust us”. If the hand wasn’t caught in the cookie jar, I don’t know what is.
So, your choice of words, "backdoor" really sets out your stall. It was Telnet and wasn't accessible from the internet. Are you now going to claim that everyone using Telnet (perhaps the vast majority of telcos) has planted backdoors?
Am I distorting your words?
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190430/09173542116/bloomberg-appears-to-flub-another-china-story-insists-telnet-is-nefarious-huawei-backdoor.shtml
In the case of both Bloomberg articles, they were merely reporting what had been said, done and suspected rather than trying to build a case. But many have become so used to the FauxNews style that starts with the belief and then backs into whatever "facts" support that belief that they think every media outlet does the same.
And, as an aside, the Bloomberg article you site never said the supposed spychips were on Apple Servers -- although that became a popular take-away. Actually, at that point in time, Apple was just getting into cloud and was piggy backing on AWS servers (which were the main ones sited in the article).
Yeah, I'm "anti-China" because I'm for basic freedom's for the Chinese people, and this tactic is a great way of letting Mainlanders in Hong Kong understand what is going on with the protests.
Ya think that Ren is going to add an Airdrop clone to Huawei and Honor phones?
Ren's lying about Apple as his privacy role model, because he knows it can't happen in China.
What does basic freedoms have to do with Huawei?
Huawei might not be perfect (no one is) but Huawei isn't going to help with basic freedoms. Still, just 30 years ago, things were far worse than they are now. If you are seeking some kind of 'instant perfect' you are on the wrong track. Everything takes time. How long did it take for U.S Civil Rights to be enshrined in law for everyone? It definitely wasn't that long ago.
You need to be realistic but you aren't. Either way, Huawei is not ruling China.
You might want to stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government, and for their SOE, Huawei.
For the record, I am being realistic, hence why I posted about the protestors in Hong Kong. Realistically, Hong Kong has everything to lose when they are assimilated by China.
BTW, unrelated extradition of a Chinese National for helping his scientist sister steal IP from Glaxo...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-usa-secrets/u-s-seeks-extradition-of-chinese-researcher-in-drug-secrets-theft-idUSKCN1U312I?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
Next up, China detains two Swiss nationals for "spying", just like they did for the two Canadian Nationals when Meng Wanzhou was detained for extradition.
As for Ren, it is probably lip service but you can't know if he's lying. You just don't know.
As for privacy and Huawei, what do you know about that? Little to nothing?
Privacy has been a cornerstone of every recent project design and they comply with all the major security/privacy certifications. Why not watch a keynote from time to time and see for yourself?
And for Airdrop, your ignorance on the subject hit new highs. Huawei already has AirDrop functionality! What were you saying about Ren allowing that to happen?
Now you are the one showing your ignorance, you need to get educated on the subject matter you write about before you post. Isn’t that what you said to me.
Things are worse now in China then they were 30years ago, have you not heard of the pervasive facial recognition system and how it interfaces with the social credit system as a start.
Facial recognition is not a uniquely Chinese thing. They are probably right at the head of the pack in that area but most western governments have people who drool over that kind of technology. There are civil liberties involved and control is required but the technology is already pervasive to most western societies in some form or another. Most of which already have your biometric information already on record anyway.
Like I said 'instant perfect' is not realistic but if you truly believe that China hasn't gone through staggering change (for the better) over the last 30 (or even 40 years) you really should be doing some checks and posting your findings.
If you feel I was unfair in highlighting your false claims further up, I apologise but what you posted was factually incorrect and came over as a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what actually happened. For the benefit of people reading from afar it really is better to have the other side of the story also on the table. That is what I and Gatorguy provided.
As to your claims about China, the post you made a few levels up in the same paragraph as 30years of change you also make the connection to “Civil Rights”. Now even in your last reply you didn’t consider what I said. Yes China has moved ahead in a technological front and living standards have improved but that is not what you said. You made the connection that if they have moved forward on these fronts that they would also be moving along with their civil rights. The opposite is true, when you link facial recognition with big data and a social behavioral modification device like the “Social Credit Score” civil rights go out the window. China is more oppressive now then it was before the Tiananmen Square massacre, and that says a lot. This is part of the fear that the Hong Kong students have in China’s over reach into their society, that all the same systems will be introduced to their island state.
However, in spite of slowness in some areas, staggering progress has been made all over China and lots of it for the better. The reason that the rest of the world does business with China, and doesn't try to isolate it, is because isolation would not be very helpful for anyone. The rest of the world also understands that massive, rapid change on civil liberties is also unrealistic.
Can you at least stop being an apologist for the Chinese Government. By all measures of civil liberties, China is regressing under Xi Jinping;
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2135208/under-xi-jinping-return-china-dangers-all-powerful-leader
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/26/chinas-stability-myth-is-dead/
"The announcement on Sunday that China would abolish the two-term limit for the presidency, effectively foreshadowing current leader Xi Jinping’s likely status as president for life, had been predicted ever since Xi failed to nominate a clear successor at last October’s Communist Party Congress. But it still came as a shock in a country where the collective leadership established under Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s was once considered inviolable. Xi, like every leader since Deng, combines a trinity of roles that embody the three pillars of power in China: party chairman, president, and head of the Central Military Commission. But like every leader since Deng, he was once expected to hand these over after his appointed decade, letting one generation of leadership pass smoothly on to the next.
It’s virtually impossible to gauge public opinion in China, especially as censorship has gripped ever tighter online. But among Chinese I know, including those used to defending China’s system, the move caused dismay and a fair amount of gallows humor involving references to “Emperor Pooh” and “West Korea.”
U.S. President Donald Trump’s electoral victory in 2016 similarly prompted rounds of reflection about and criticism of American democracy. But the Chinese case merits significantly more alarm. For all the erosion of norms under Trump, he seems unlikely, despite the fears of some, to fundamentally change the way the United States is governed. Xi, meanwhile, appears to have entirely transformed Chinese politics from collective autocracy to what’s looking increasingly like one-man rule. This switch should leave everyone very worried, both inside and outside China. A country that once seemed to be clumsily lurching toward new freedoms has regressed sharply into full-blown dictatorship — of a kind that’s likely to lead to dangerous and unfixable mistakes.
The Chinese Constitution itself is a largely meaningless document, promising as it does freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and personal privacy. Amendments are frequent, proposed by a committee of “experts” and rubber-stamped by the National People’s Congress, China’s annual — and equally meaningless — parliament. Brave efforts to give the constitution genuine significance were crushed, as with any other attempt to curtail party power, in the early years of Xi’s rule.
Please, just shut the fuck up about China. Your ignorance about the current governance of China is embarrassing, and dangerously naive.
For the record, the U.S. passed the Civil Rights act in 1965, ten years before General Francisco Franco died in office, releasing Spain from the grips of dictatorship. You might want to remember that when you're making your comparison.
I would also note that it is China that is isolates itself from the world, not allowing its citizens access to the rest of the world's Internet, filtered by the Great Firewall.
No. Of course not.
However, in spite of the current situation, there is no denying that China has experienced staggering change for the better over the last 30 years.
Obfuscation on a few points and stating the obvious won't make things move any faster. Your own government, far from backing away from China, is actively seeking a trade deal with the country!
It's time to be realistic.
And once again Huawei got lost in your word soup.
Weren't you telling me minutes ago that Ren would never allow an AirDrop capability on Huawei or Honor phones - completely unaware that it already existed!?
No doubt your last post was simply to distract people away from that, right?
The problem with China is that they want to be not just at the big boys/girls table but sitting at its head with all the pomp and benefits it entails. But they don’t want to put the work in to get there on their own terms, as well as not wanting to take on the responsibilities as a good global citizen along the way. This is why they act like the bully boy in the playground, ignoring the rules when it suits them, taking what they want, acting as a stand over country to force what they want and giving back only when there is something in it for themselves. This may sound harsh, however I do want the best for China and what they could do for the the world at large if they chose to but that is not the behavior I see on the world stage(and yes politics both domestic and foreign is what I invest my spare time in, not technology). On the current trajectory I hold grave fears for the people of China and the Asia/Pacific, Australia included, as I can see all the diversity in the region being strangled out by an authoritarian government that has no conscience and is hell bent on expansion.
A group of countries need to stand up to China’s behavior but at this stage I can’t see it happening especially with the foreign affairs train wreck that is the Trump administration. It would nice to see a group standing up to China and saying its behavior is not acceptable along with their being consequences to their actions. I know that is what the trade war with the US and China is supposed to be about, but I have to wonder if there couldn’t be some other strategy that could be employed that didn’t involve so much collateral damage to the world and US economies.
I was, in fact unaware that Huawei had the equivalent of Airdrop, but that doesn't change the fact that Ren is lying about Apple being his model of privacy, given that there is no guarantee of privacy in China.
More to the point, you seem unable to understand the significance of the protests over extradition legislation in Hong Kong. In essence, China would be able to extradite anyone in Hong Kong to the mainland, even including persons that merely traveled through Hong Kong. Hence why protestors were using Airdrop to educate Mainlanders.