Seeing as 128 GB isn’t big enough for most people, this computer is no bang for your buck.
Exactly. These minuscule SSDs are almost offensive.
Then it's a good thing for you two that this is neither the only nor largest capacity SSD available. Personally, I don't that much capacity on my portable Mac so I'm glad Apple doesn't force buyers to go for capacities they won't need. I take that back. Since I'm a 15" MBP user it does mean that I do have to get the 256 GB MBP at the entry level capacity when 128 GB would be more than enough for my portable needs. But instead of complaining about Apple is raping me or forcing me to do something against my will, I instead look at all vendor products, determine which fits my needs best, and then move on with my decision.
But if you have a long term investment in MacOS your options aren't really options at all.
What would be nice is an 'old style' Mac. Upgradeable RAM, SSD, removeable battery, no Touch Bar, scissor mechanism etc and let market forces decide who is 'forcing' who, because if such a machine were to prove a wild success (IMO it would) it would essentially mean that users are being forced to buy what they don't want. Just one model. That is all it would take.
Ehem, 'Courage'. Too much to ask?
Your thinking is so flawed it’s hot even funny. The market is already speaking — because these are the products Apple offers in a very healthy marketplace, and people buy them. Normals do not care about the things you pretend they do. The number of people who upgrade their machines are small. Techies are not normals. The attributes of what makes MacsBooks attractive are the things you want them to eliminate — sleek, lightweight appliance computing machines. Get a junky Dell if you want removable everything. Which you will since you wouldn’t even buy a MBP to begin with.
You’re confusing courage “But but but these are the things *I* want Apple to do!” Apple does what Apple wants to do, which the vast majority of normal people are fine with. There are alternatives for people like you.
Your thinking is so fanboy it's insanely funny... yes lots of "normals" (e.g. not Apple religious zealots) would like to be able to spend a little when they can afford it over time to keep their machine going (and frankly end up with a lower cost over all)...
And the "junk Dell" troupe shows your lack of keeping up to date on the tech market... in the current environment I'm forced to use a MacBook Pro to run Xcode... I can only dream of a machine like the new XPS 13 or 15 with a beautiful OLED display... or a thin Lenovo X1 with 64GB of RAM (remember the days when it was Windows losers who were forced to use their machines looking longingly at Macs... but I get that fanboys need to convince themselves that Apple hardware is still holy and the others are "junk")
And yeah the market is speaking... MacBook sales are down ~ -2.0% while most of the PC folks saw increases.
Seeing as 128 GB isn’t big enough for most people, this computer is no bang for your buck.
Exactly. These minuscule SSDs are almost offensive.
Then it's a good thing for you two that this is neither the only nor largest capacity SSD available. Personally, I don't that much capacity on my portable Mac so I'm glad Apple doesn't force buyers to go for capacities they won't need. I take that back. Since I'm a 15" MBP user it does mean that I do have to get the 256 GB MBP at the entry level capacity when 128 GB would be more than enough for my portable needs. But instead of complaining about Apple is raping me or forcing me to do something against my will, I instead look at all vendor products, determine which fits my needs best, and then move on with my decision.
But if you have a long term investment in MacOS your options aren't really options at all.
What would be nice is an 'old style' Mac. Upgradeable RAM, SSD, removeable battery, no Touch Bar, scissor mechanism etc and let market forces decide who is 'forcing' who, because if such a machine were to prove a wild success (IMO it would) it would essentially mean that users are being forced to buy what they don't want. Just one model. That is all it would take.
Ehem, 'Courage'. Too much to ask?
Your thinking is so flawed it’s hot even funny. The market is already speaking — because these are the products Apple offers in a very healthy marketplace, and people buy them. Normals do not care about the things you pretend they do. The number of people who upgrade their machines are small. Techies are not normals. The attributes of what makes MacsBooks attractive are the things you want them to eliminate — sleek, lightweight appliance computing machines. Get a junky Dell if you want removable everything. Which you will since you wouldn’t even buy a MBP to begin with.
You’re confusing courage “But but but these are the things *I* want Apple to do!” Apple does what Apple wants to do, which the vast majority of normal people are fine with. There are alternatives for people like you.
Your thinking is so fanboy it's insanely funny... yes lots of "normals" (e.g. not Apple religious zealots) would like to be able to spend a little when they can afford it over time to keep their machine going (and frankly end up with a lower cost over all)...
And the "junk Dell" troupe shows your lack of keeping up to date on the tech market... in the current environment I'm forced to use a MacBook Pro to run Xcode... I can only dream of a machine like the new XPS 13 or 15 with a beautiful OLED display... or a thin Lenovo X1 with 64GB of RAM (remember the days when it was Windows losers who were forced to use their machines looking longingly at Macs... but I get that fanboys need to convince themselves that Apple hardware is still holy and the others are "junk")
And yeah the market is speaking... MacBook sales are down ~ -2.0% while most of the PC folks saw increases.
Maybe. Maybe not. And, it isn't two percent on the low-end, it's 0.2 percent.
It explains also the structure of Apple SSDs. The SSD controller is in the T2 chip that sits between the Intel CPU and the NAND storage. Such a configuration is not sold on Amazon, and obviously there is no way to DIY “replace the SSD”...
By that we mean swapping the NAND module, if Apple allows, of course.
Seeing as 128 GB isn’t big enough for most people, this computer is no bang for your buck.
Exactly. These minuscule SSDs are almost offensive.
Then it's a good thing for you two that this is neither the only nor largest capacity SSD available. Personally, I don't that much capacity on my portable Mac so I'm glad Apple doesn't force buyers to go for capacities they won't need. I take that back. Since I'm a 15" MBP user it does mean that I do have to get the 256 GB MBP at the entry level capacity when 128 GB would be more than enough for my portable needs. But instead of complaining about Apple is raping me or forcing me to do something against my will, I instead look at all vendor products, determine which fits my needs best, and then move on with my decision.
But if you have a long term investment in MacOS your options aren't really options at all.
What would be nice is an 'old style' Mac. Upgradeable RAM, SSD, removeable battery, no Touch Bar, scissor mechanism etc and let market forces decide who is 'forcing' who, because if such a machine were to prove a wild success (IMO it would) it would essentially mean that users are being forced to buy what they don't want. Just one model. That is all it would take.
Ehem, 'Courage'. Too much to ask?
Your thinking is so flawed it’s hot even funny. The market is already speaking — because these are the products Apple offers in a very healthy marketplace, and people buy them. Normals do not care about the things you pretend they do. The number of people who upgrade their machines are small. Techies are not normals. The attributes of what makes MacsBooks attractive are the things you want them to eliminate — sleek, lightweight appliance computing machines. Get a junky Dell if you want removable everything. Which you will since you wouldn’t even buy a MBP to begin with.
You’re confusing courage “But but but these are the things *I* want Apple to do!” Apple does what Apple wants to do, which the vast majority of normal people are fine with. There are alternatives for people like you.
Your thinking is so fanboy it's insanely funny... yes lots of "normals" (e.g. not Apple religious zealots) would like to be able to spend a little when they can afford it over time to keep their machine going (and frankly end up with a lower cost over all)...
And the "junk Dell" troupe shows your lack of keeping up to date on the tech market... in the current environment I'm forced to use a MacBook Pro to run Xcode... I can only dream of a machine like the new XPS 13 or 15 with a beautiful OLED display... or a thin Lenovo X1 with 64GB of RAM (remember the days when it was Windows losers who were forced to use their machines looking longingly at Macs... but I get that fanboys need to convince themselves that Apple hardware is still holy and the others are "junk")
And yeah the market is speaking... MacBook sales are down ~ -2.0% while most of the PC folks saw increases.
Seeing as 128 GB isn’t big enough for most people, this computer is no bang for your buck.
Exactly. These minuscule SSDs are almost offensive.
Then it's a good thing for you two that this is neither the only nor largest capacity SSD available. Personally, I don't that much capacity on my portable Mac so I'm glad Apple doesn't force buyers to go for capacities they won't need. I take that back. Since I'm a 15" MBP user it does mean that I do have to get the 256 GB MBP at the entry level capacity when 128 GB would be more than enough for my portable needs. But instead of complaining about Apple is raping me or forcing me to do something against my will, I instead look at all vendor products, determine which fits my needs best, and then move on with my decision.
But if you have a long term investment in MacOS your options aren't really options at all.
What would be nice is an 'old style' Mac. Upgradeable RAM, SSD, removeable battery, no Touch Bar, scissor mechanism etc and let market forces decide who is 'forcing' who, because if such a machine were to prove a wild success (IMO it would) it would essentially mean that users are being forced to buy what they don't want. Just one model. That is all it would take.
Ehem, 'Courage'. Too much to ask?
Your thinking is so flawed it’s hot even funny. The market is already speaking — because these are the products Apple offers in a very healthy marketplace, and people buy them. Normals do not care about the things you pretend they do. The number of people who upgrade their machines are small. Techies are not normals. The attributes of what makes MacsBooks attractive are the things you want them to eliminate — sleek, lightweight appliance computing machines. Get a junky Dell if you want removable everything. Which you will since you wouldn’t even buy a MBP to begin with.
You’re confusing courage “But but but these are the things *I* want Apple to do!” Apple does what Apple wants to do, which the vast majority of normal people are fine with. There are alternatives for people like you.
Your thinking is so fanboy it's insanely funny... yes lots of "normals" (e.g. not Apple religious zealots) would like to be able to spend a little when they can afford it over time to keep their machine going (and frankly end up with a lower cost over all)...
And the "junk Dell" troupe shows your lack of keeping up to date on the tech market... in the current environment I'm forced to use a MacBook Pro to run Xcode... I can only dream of a machine like the new XPS 13 or 15 with a beautiful OLED display... or a thin Lenovo X1 with 64GB of RAM (remember the days when it was Windows losers who were forced to use their machines looking longingly at Macs... but I get that fanboys need to convince themselves that Apple hardware is still holy and the others are "junk")
And yeah the market is speaking... MacBook sales are down ~ -2.0% while most of the PC folks saw increases.
Maybe. Maybe not. And, it isn't two percent on the low-end, it's 0.2 percent.
I have no doubt that YOUR number is correct Mike. But I think his basic point remains: The industry has caught up to the MacBook and is n the process of passing it by..
Apple has sat back became comfortable with variations on the MacBook Air. I think they need to get back to the design / innovation table that they are known for. And, I think they are because the MacPro is just exactly that -- more than anything it is breaking Apple's mould. I see A-Series processors opening up some stuff for them as well as 2n1's opening up new markets, possibly a portable workstation model, and also further integration with iOS as well as running iOS apps. But all of that is kind of obvious -- I also see them taking all of that even further.
Seeing as 128 GB isn’t big enough for most people, this computer is no bang for your buck.
Exactly. These minuscule SSDs are almost offensive.
Then it's a good thing for you two that this is neither the only nor largest capacity SSD available. Personally, I don't that much capacity on my portable Mac so I'm glad Apple doesn't force buyers to go for capacities they won't need. I take that back. Since I'm a 15" MBP user it does mean that I do have to get the 256 GB MBP at the entry level capacity when 128 GB would be more than enough for my portable needs. But instead of complaining about Apple is raping me or forcing me to do something against my will, I instead look at all vendor products, determine which fits my needs best, and then move on with my decision.
But if you have a long term investment in MacOS your options aren't really options at all.
What would be nice is an 'old style' Mac. Upgradeable RAM, SSD, removeable battery, no Touch Bar, scissor mechanism etc and let market forces decide who is 'forcing' who, because if such a machine were to prove a wild success (IMO it would) it would essentially mean that users are being forced to buy what they don't want. Just one model. That is all it would take.
Ehem, 'Courage'. Too much to ask?
Your thinking is so flawed it’s hot even funny. The market is already speaking — because these are the products Apple offers in a very healthy marketplace, and people buy them. Normals do not care about the things you pretend they do. The number of people who upgrade their machines are small. Techies are not normals. The attributes of what makes MacsBooks attractive are the things you want them to eliminate — sleek, lightweight appliance computing machines. Get a junky Dell if you want removable everything. Which you will since you wouldn’t even buy a MBP to begin with.
You’re confusing courage “But but but these are the things *I* want Apple to do!” Apple does what Apple wants to do, which the vast majority of normal people are fine with. There are alternatives for people like you.
Contrary to your assertion that making the memory and/or SSD removable would make it bulky and junky, other makers brands of compact laptops in the same class as the MacBook Pro have replaceable components. It’s not an either-or proposition.
The problem with talking about ‘the market’ with Macs is that it really isn’t an open market. In the PC world, you can pick between multiple manufactures and still get a windows machine. If you want MacOS, you’re stuck with Apple laptops. It’s not unlike the headphone jack. I’ve talked to many people who would prefer a standard 3.5mm jack and are annoyed at having to carry around an adapter but put up with it because they want to stay with an iPhone. As has been pointed out, we don’t really know what percentage of the MBPs are sold with the 128GB drive; it may very well be an intentionally undersized drive just to let them advertise a low starting price point - kind of like Tesla advertising the Model 3 for under $34k - technically true, but the version that the vast majority of people want is $50k,
I think, to really sums up: if it doesn’t have “Pro” in its name then we don’t have a problem. Remember this machine is intended as an Air replacement, which 128GB could be adequate for those people.
Other things: Although I do like slotted SSD better (I don’t see the point on RAM, however), judging by current situation, it may not make a whole lot of difference. They aren’t non-removable with hot air station, the performance is locked by the T2, nor is that slot compatible with M.2. I still hope Apple put them on the MacBook Pro and sell those modules, though, the real solution I think is to find a compromise.
I wonder if a larger SSD would have improved SSD write speeds?
Maybe not specifically a larger capacity, but as Zimmie notes, there is space for 4 NAND models on the board so I assume we'll see that larger capacity MBPs that are usually 4 modules instead of two will offer faster speeds.
Wow do they ever. I ordered a 13" mid-2019 two Thunderbolt MacBook Pro when the Adorama discount appeared. 16 GB of RAM and the 1 TB SSD option. It just arrived a little over an hour ago. After five Blackmagic Disk Speed Test runs with a 5 GB test file, I'm getting a bit over 2500 MB/s write and a bit over 2300 MB/s read. That's with FileVault and everything.
Five times the write performance reported here, and nearly twice the read performance.
The speed will drop over time as the disk accumulates clutter, but should be at least 60% of those numbers for the life of the drive.
I wonder if a larger SSD would have improved SSD write speeds?
Maybe not specifically a larger capacity, but as Zimmie notes, there is space for 4 NAND models on the board so I assume we'll see that larger capacity MBPs that are usually 4 modules instead of two will offer faster speeds.
Wow do they ever. I ordered a 13" mid-2019 two Thunderbolt MacBook Pro when the Adorama discount appeared. 16 GB of RAM and the 1 TB SSD option. It just arrived a little over an hour ago. After five Blackmagic Disk Speed Test runs with a 5 GB test file, I'm getting a bit over 2500 MB/s write and a bit over 2300 MB/s read. That's with FileVault and everything.
Five times the write performance reported here, and nearly twice the read performance.
The speed will drop over time as the disk accumulates clutter, but should be at least 60% of those numbers for the life of the drive.
It probably won't drop that much. We're not seeing a notable drop on the 2016 MBPs that we've had in service for a time.
I wonder if a larger SSD would have improved SSD write speeds?
Maybe not specifically a larger capacity, but as Zimmie notes, there is space for 4 NAND models on the board so I assume we'll see that larger capacity MBPs that are usually 4 modules instead of two will offer faster speeds.
Wow do they ever. I ordered a 13" mid-2019 two Thunderbolt MacBook Pro when the Adorama discount appeared. 16 GB of RAM and the 1 TB SSD option. It just arrived a little over an hour ago. After five Blackmagic Disk Speed Test runs with a 5 GB test file, I'm getting a bit over 2500 MB/s write and a bit over 2300 MB/s read. That's with FileVault and everything.
Five times the write performance reported here, and nearly twice the read performance.
The speed will drop over time as the disk accumulates clutter, but should be at least 60% of those numbers for the life of the drive.
It probably won't drop that much. We're not seeing a notable drop on the 2016 MBPs that we've had in service for a time.
I should have been more clear. I was talking absolute worst case I could imagine. If my income depends on something, I always assume real-world performance will be far worse than it has any reason to be. Thus, the speed drop over time will realistically be maybe 5%, and even assuming some nightmare-scenario speed drop eight times more severe than real-world circumstances are likely to cause, it will still get well over a gigabyte per second. Honestly, I would be very surprised if it dropped more than 10%.
Very few NVMe drives achieve this level of performance. The T2's SSD controller is a pretty serious competitive advantage.
Comments
Isn't the Mac Mini a "headless" iMac ?
And the "junk Dell" troupe shows your lack of keeping up to date on the tech market... in the current environment I'm forced to use a MacBook Pro to run Xcode... I can only dream of a machine like the new XPS 13 or 15 with a beautiful OLED display... or a thin Lenovo X1 with 64GB of RAM (remember the days when it was Windows losers who were forced to use their machines looking longingly at Macs... but I get that fanboys need to convince themselves that Apple hardware is still holy and the others are "junk")
And yeah the market is speaking... MacBook sales are down ~ -2.0% while most of the PC folks saw increases.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/11/apples-mac-sales-are-up-a-lot-or-down-slightly-in-q2-depending-on-who-you-ask
The kind of machine I'm referring to is a G3/G4/G5 style desktop.
Apple has sat back became comfortable with variations on the MacBook Air. I think they need to get back to the design / innovation table that they are known for. And, I think they are because the MacPro is just exactly that -- more than anything it is breaking Apple's mould. I see A-Series processors opening up some stuff for them as well as 2n1's opening up new markets, possibly a portable workstation model, and also further integration with iOS as well as running iOS apps. But all of that is kind of obvious -- I also see them taking all of that even further.
Remember this machine is intended as an Air replacement, which 128GB could be adequate for those people.
Other things: Although I do like slotted SSD better (I don’t see the point on RAM, however), judging by current situation, it may not make a whole lot of difference. They aren’t non-removable with hot air station, the performance is locked by the T2, nor is that slot compatible with M.2. I still hope Apple put them on the MacBook Pro and sell those modules, though, the real solution I think is to find a compromise.
Five times the write performance reported here, and nearly twice the read performance.
The speed will drop over time as the disk accumulates clutter, but should be at least 60% of those numbers for the life of the drive.
Very few NVMe drives achieve this level of performance. The T2's SSD controller is a pretty serious competitive advantage.