YouTuber reveals 'iPhone 11' models, claims few changes

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 89
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,144member
    Wow! Jony isn’t even out the door yet and the design team is already running around like headless chickens. I love Apple, have for a long time, but that looks HIDEOUS! If this was the first we’ve seen of this, there’d be hope that this person was just stirring the fanboy pot, but it’s not. This same design with that picture window size camera has been floating around for some time now. And they will probably go for $1200-$1800 depending on options. 

    This design has most likely been in the hopper for years. It has nothing to do with Ive leaving the company.
    StrangeDaysthtPickUrPoisonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 89
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,055member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.

    As for the square bump taking inspiration from Huawei, why not? We will never know. There are only so many designs anyway so it would have appeared eventually, just like a circular bump will surely appear too. This is like AirPods. There is nothing original in the design. Snipping off the wires from standard earbuds didn't break new ground and using the long stems has been a well trodden path for the majority of hands free earpieces for many years.

    Square, lineal or circular bumps, aren't news. Looks are and these look awful.

    Having said all that, if things had appeared on an iPhone first and competitors followed, many here would be howling at the 'blatant rip offs' and if the top left sqaure placement had been used by anyone before Apple there would have been howls over how ugly it was, too.

    As things stand, the Pixel 4 actually doesn't look so 'off' because there is no logo near it to draw you to it. 

    The logo is understated and well out of the way.

    It's all moot though until the phones go official. Just pray there are no furry dice hanging off them!
    I don’t think the camera hump in the center looks any better or worse. This notion that Huawei’s implementation is universally accepted as better looking is BS. Of course I’m not surprised you would think so as you’re a Huawei shill.
    Easily solved. Show both setups to ten people you know and note their preferences. The centred option will win out. We are 'programmed' for symmetry to appeal to us. 
  • Reply 63 of 89
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,832member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.

    As for the square bump taking inspiration from Huawei, why not? We will never know. There are only so many designs anyway so it would have appeared eventually, just like a circular bump will surely appear too. This is like AirPods. There is nothing original in the design. Snipping off the wires from standard earbuds didn't break new ground and using the long stems has been a well trodden path for the majority of hands free earpieces for many years.

    Square, lineal or circular bumps, aren't news. Looks are and these look awful.

    Having said all that, if things had appeared on an iPhone first and competitors followed, many here would be howling at the 'blatant rip offs' and if the top left sqaure placement had been used by anyone before Apple there would have been howls over how ugly it was, too.

    As things stand, the Pixel 4 actually doesn't look so 'off' because there is no logo near it to draw you to it. 

    The logo is understated and well out of the way.

    It's all moot though until the phones go official. Just pray there are no furry dice hanging off them!
    I don’t think the camera hump in the center looks any better or worse. This notion that Huawei’s implementation is universally accepted as better looking is BS. Of course I’m not surprised you would think so as you’re a Huawei shill.
    Easily solved. Show both setups to ten people you know and note their preferences. The centred option will win out. We are 'programmed' for symmetry to appeal to us. 
    Easier.

    Wait until it arrives and then see how good the imaging, video, and A/R capabilities are, and then see what the response to the bump is.

    StrangeDaysAppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 89
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,055member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.

    As for the square bump taking inspiration from Huawei, why not? We will never know. There are only so many designs anyway so it would have appeared eventually, just like a circular bump will surely appear too. This is like AirPods. There is nothing original in the design. Snipping off the wires from standard earbuds didn't break new ground and using the long stems has been a well trodden path for the majority of hands free earpieces for many years.

    Square, lineal or circular bumps, aren't news. Looks are and these look awful.

    Having said all that, if things had appeared on an iPhone first and competitors followed, many here would be howling at the 'blatant rip offs' and if the top left sqaure placement had been used by anyone before Apple there would have been howls over how ugly it was, too.

    As things stand, the Pixel 4 actually doesn't look so 'off' because there is no logo near it to draw you to it. 

    The logo is understated and well out of the way.

    It's all moot though until the phones go official. Just pray there are no furry dice hanging off them!
    I don’t think the camera hump in the center looks any better or worse. This notion that Huawei’s implementation is universally accepted as better looking is BS. Of course I’m not surprised you would think so as you’re a Huawei shill.
    Easily solved. Show both setups to ten people you know and note their preferences. The centred option will win out. We are 'programmed' for symmetry to appeal to us. 
    Easier.

    Wait until it arrives and then see how good the imaging, video, and A/R capabilities are, and then see what the response to the bump is.

    It will still look 'off' to most people. The imaging, video and AR can't change that. Unless they ship with a pair of AR glasses that show the bump centered!
    gatorguy1STnTENDERBITSchemengin1
  • Reply 65 of 89
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,373unconfirmed, member
    dedgecko said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Two more months of pearl clutching by concern trolls and then we get actual reviews of the iPhone's triple camera system. 

    I'm prescient.

    Once the reviews are out, no one will give a fuck about the "look" of the camera bump.


    I think most forum members here have always cared about how their phones look. They won't suddenly "not care". 

    That also doesn't mean they won't buy a new iPhone anyway whether they think it looks great, good, average, or bad. Looks aren't the only selling point, just one of them.
    “No one” meaning the millions of people in the market for a new iPhone, not the same 5-10 negative-Apple-Nancy’s who come to offer their opinions on AI.

    The alleged new bump looks to be the same size as the GoPro lens. No one cares about those either. ;)

    Though didn’t the Pixel 4 Leak already confirm someone has stolen the alleged iPhone 11 design?  
    The Pixel 4's design isn't stolen from Apple.  Both the Pixel 4 and the alleged iPhone 11 were "inspired" by Huawei's design from last year's Mate Pro 20.  MKBHD even shows one in comparison in the video above.  That camera module is ugly.  Will it keep people from buying the phone?  No, but it's still ugly.  No one, not even the members of the ADF have said otherwise.

    You've gotta be outta your mind to think Apple looks at knockoffs and copies them. I'm tired of people coming to this dumb conclusion.

    Apple does what Apple wants. This includes innovations the whole world hates at first for the sake of pushing their tech further. iPhone/iPad/Multi-Touchscreen/removing legacy ports/etc.
    tmayStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 89
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 878member
    I think I'll call it "iPatch"
    StrangeDaystht
  • Reply 67 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,241member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    Because right now a lot of us are saying it's ugly? That's why I would see a need to change it. You might disagree and like it just the way it is, huge, ugly, jumbled arrangement, and all. :)
    (Mostly kidding)
    This should go without saying, but ugly is subjective. Apple surely isn’t designing for approval of knockoff users like yourself who don’t own an iphone and won’t buy one anyway. Get real. 
    Gosh dude...
    Are you missing that my comment applies to the Pixel4 too? Take a moment to understand what someone writes before jumping in with some dismissive or ad-hom-ish comment. Dehumanizing others with the silly "iknockoff users", "trolls" or whatever other pigeonholing stuff you might come up with really shouldn't be an acceptable thing.
    Sorry, but pointing out the fact (fact) that you’re a user of knockoff devices and won’t be buying an iphone regardless, and thus weighting your expectations of what good design is, is not dehumanizing. It’s simply being practical. Apple isn’t designing its premium devices to mimic the mimickers. 
    tmayAppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,241member

    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?


    1. I wouldn't consider buying an iMac, I'm a MacBook guy, so I don't have much interest in it.
    2. Even if I did, those ports don't bother me, they're a very small part of the back on the iMac, and their location has a function that would be impeded by centralisation.
    3. Even if I did have interest and they did bother me, I don't see the back of my monitor screen very often, I see the back of my iPhone all the time.
    or symmetrically balances to either side”

    The ports on the back of the iMac could be placed on either side, symmetrically, but they arent. They’re on one side only. No one complains about this. It’s the same reason why the pearl clutching here is silly nonsense. 
    edited July 17 watto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,241member
    StrangeDays said:
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?
    Why not? That's pretty simple.  The argument isn't universally applicable.  The phone and the computer are separate things judged separately.    It would be like using the arguments about AWD vs 4WD in an SUV in a conversation about a motorcycle.  
    Nope, the analogy stands. Both are sets of instrumentation on the backside of a device. No whining about the iMac, so the whining here is likewise absurd. Once it’s an actual product, and not just a rumor link to talk about, I suspect the whining will subside. As always. 
    edited July 17 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,241member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.
    You continue to show your ignorance about how Apple builds its products. 
     
    - “Why not” Errrnnt. Apple does not do change for change’s sake. If there is not a compelling reason to do it, they won’t. Pleasing knockoff non-customers like yourself who want it to look more like a chinese knockoff ain’t a reason. 

    - Apple isn’t slow to adding stand out, premium features — software keyboard, retina display, Siri, TouchID, FaceID for no forehead or chin (more screen in same space), and the best in the business line of A-series processors to deliver a superior UI experience with a better OS...that’s what they care about. They are slow to adopt bleeding edge specs, such as modem protocols. As usual, what you claim is important isn’t important to most people. Like triple cameras. No one’s losing any sleep over it. 
    Forget 'change for the sake of change'. That is a cop out. Why change colours and finish etc? Aesthetics? Ah, that's what we are talking about. Is not being ugly 'compelling' enough? Let's forget for a moment that Apple has made no end of interface changes that appear to have exactly that 'change for the sake of change' philosophy running through them.

    Where is the worst place to put an SD slot on an iMac? The rear is definitely not the best! But hey, they moved it from a less bad position (the side) to the back. Any compelling user facing (pun intended) reason for that or was it that Ive couldn't sleep at night because he needed to have the ports in one little group and out of sight so as not to break those pure lines? 

    Aesthetics?

    Apple is moving like a sloth. How else can you justify shipping a 5W charger for 10 years. What consumers crave for is camera versatility. It sells phones. Face ID is simply just another biometric and literally nothing more. The hardware didn't even change from one year to the next. Tri-cameras, x5 zoom, is not just another camera. SuperCharge is not just another charger. Even Huawei's 3D depth sensing does more than Apple's. Look at how long it took them to add dual SIM!

    Clearly a faster processor doesn't shift phones because Apple stagnated for three years before issuing a profit warning. Why? Because the entire flagship industry has 'instant' response times for pretty much everything they do and often outspeeds Apple in things we do daily like opening apps. Speed hasn't been an issue for years on flagships (although I believe your less than two year old iPhone X can't handle Apple's best AR goodies in the upcoming OS upgrade). 
    So many words for delusional nonsense. Apple isn’t “stagnating” just because iphone sales
    eventually cooled, as everyone with functional lobes knew and said would happen. It is inevitable. Just as the sun will cool. Yet, iPhone and iPhone alone remains the most successful consumer product in history. Not your chinese knockoffs.   
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 89
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,241member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.

    As for the square bump taking inspiration from Huawei, why not? We will never know. There are only so many designs anyway so it would have appeared eventually, just like a circular bump will surely appear too. This is like AirPods. There is nothing original in the design. Snipping off the wires from standard earbuds didn't break new ground and using the long stems has been a well trodden path for the majority of hands free earpieces for many years.

    Square, lineal or circular bumps, aren't news. Looks are and these look awful.

    Having said all that, if things had appeared on an iPhone first and competitors followed, many here would be howling at the 'blatant rip offs' and if the top left sqaure placement had been used by anyone before Apple there would have been howls over how ugly it was, too.

    As things stand, the Pixel 4 actually doesn't look so 'off' because there is no logo near it to draw you to it. 

    The logo is understated and well out of the way.

    It's all moot though until the phones go official. Just pray there are no furry dice hanging off them!
    I don’t think the camera hump in the center looks any better or worse. This notion that Huawei’s implementation is universally accepted as better looking is BS. Of course I’m not surprised you would think so as you’re a Huawei shill.
    Easily solved. Show both setups to ten people you know and note their preferences. The centred option will win out. We are 'programmed' for symmetry to appeal to us. 
    Easier.

    Wait until it arrives and then see how good the imaging, video, and A/R capabilities are, and then see what the response to the bump is.

    It will still look 'off' to most people. The imaging, video and AR can't change that. Unless they ship with a pair of AR glasses that show the bump centered!
    Here’s why you’d be a poor designer — if it works better as is, few will care. Only dogmatic phone nerds on tech sites give any shit about any of this. Apple will win, yet again. They will remain the top dog, the coveted, the premium brand. Your chinese knockoffs will remain also rans. 
    edited July 17 watto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 89
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,055member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    They are pushed to the side of the phone to make room for the battery in the center and right-side.
    They could still center the camera module with Apple's L-shaped battery because the part of the battery that covers the center of the phone is in the bottom portion of the casing. More than that, Apple is famous for their ability to design the internals of their devices.  I have no doubt Apple could place that camera module wherever they want on that phone and make it work. 

    Personally, I think Apple would keep the module in the upper left corner because of tradition.  It's always been in the upper left corner.  I hope these renders and mockups are wrong, because that off center squircle is disconcerting and just plain ugly.
    I presume the wireless charging coil currently in the dead center could be an issue with centering the new cameras.
    The Huawei Mate 20 includes wireless charging coils and the bump is still centered. 

    The explanation I've seen posted elsewhere for being off-center is both the iPhone and Pixel phones this year are mid-design cycle phones that would require some hefty re-engineering to change the position of the cameras from where they are now. With new shells/displays slated for next year it wouldn't make sense to redesign now.

    Next year I'd wager both will be changing at least the position of the square bump if not the need for one to begin with. 
    Apple and Google moving the camera bump to the middle accomplishes what exactly? Plenty of phones over the last decade have had camera bumps in the center, yet Apple has never had that.

    Why would you see the need to change it?
    The question is 'why not?'.

    If the result is ugly, change it. That's a very good reason.

    Now, if, as Gatorguy has suggested, placing it in the centre was too much of an engineering re-design for a look that is about to suffer a major reworking (possibly on the 2020 upgrade), then keeping it in the upper left would make a little more sense even if the result is ugly.

    It also fits well with Apple's sloth like progess when it comes to adding stand out premium features.

    Tri-camera will be a full 18 months behind the competition. As will be a Night Mode feature and higher zoom factors and camera versatility. For charging, many, many years behind. And rumours point to quad cameras coming to the fore.
    You continue to show your ignorance about how Apple builds its products. 
     
    - “Why not” Errrnnt. Apple does not do change for change’s sake. If there is not a compelling reason to do it, they won’t. Pleasing knockoff non-customers like yourself who want it to look more like a chinese knockoff ain’t a reason. 

    - Apple isn’t slow to adding stand out, premium features — software keyboard, retina display, Siri, TouchID, FaceID for no forehead or chin (more screen in same space), and the best in the business line of A-series processors to deliver a superior UI experience with a better OS...that’s what they care about. They are slow to adopt bleeding edge specs, such as modem protocols. As usual, what you claim is important isn’t important to most people. Like triple cameras. No one’s losing any sleep over it. 
    Forget 'change for the sake of change'. That is a cop out. Why change colours and finish etc? Aesthetics? Ah, that's what we are talking about. Is not being ugly 'compelling' enough? Let's forget for a moment that Apple has made no end of interface changes that appear to have exactly that 'change for the sake of change' philosophy running through them.

    Where is the worst place to put an SD slot on an iMac? The rear is definitely not the best! But hey, they moved it from a less bad position (the side) to the back. Any compelling user facing (pun intended) reason for that or was it that Ive couldn't sleep at night because he needed to have the ports in one little group and out of sight so as not to break those pure lines? 

    Aesthetics?

    Apple is moving like a sloth. How else can you justify shipping a 5W charger for 10 years. What consumers crave for is camera versatility. It sells phones. Face ID is simply just another biometric and literally nothing more. The hardware didn't even change from one year to the next. Tri-cameras, x5 zoom, is not just another camera. SuperCharge is not just another charger. Even Huawei's 3D depth sensing does more than Apple's. Look at how long it took them to add dual SIM!

    Clearly a faster processor doesn't shift phones because Apple stagnated for three years before issuing a profit warning. Why? Because the entire flagship industry has 'instant' response times for pretty much everything they do and often outspeeds Apple in things we do daily like opening apps. Speed hasn't been an issue for years on flagships (although I believe your less than two year old iPhone X can't handle Apple's best AR goodies in the upcoming OS upgrade). 
    So many words for delusional nonsense. Apple isn’t “stagnating” just because iphone sales
    eventually cooled, as everyone with functional lobes knew and said would happen. It is inevitable. Just as the sun will cool. Yet, iPhone and iPhone alone remains the most successful consumer product in history. Not your chinese knockoffs.   
    Everyone knew iPhone sales would cool?

    I definitely said they would (if they didn't change their approach) and market saturation was just one of the reasons I gave.

    However, I definitely don't remember you saying that. In fact I seem to remember you were one of the people that baulked at the thought and argued that the ecosystem, premium devices, upgraders etc would bring in new users, retain old users and everything would be rosy.

    It all began to slip in 2017 and now we are waiting to see what will happen in late 2019. I was hoping for an S10 style technological resurgence to put the iPhone back into the pack. According to this rumour, 2019 won't be that resurgent year. Now the rumours point to 2020 for a generational leap. The end of 2020 at that. A valid question would be two fold:

    1.with the Note 10 and Mate 30 Pro launching both sides of the iPhone 11 and promising to push things up a notch on their already well received predecessors, will the iPhone 11 be overshadowed? As a reminder, last year Apple Watch Series 4 basically did just that. I called the 2018 iPhones 'solid' but there was no real hook to them. That works when competitors are plodding the same path but that wasn't the case. Oh, and those prices!

    2. Will potential iPhone upgraders hold off one more year to pick up that rumoured heavily re-vamped iPhone 12?

    For me, those are two of many issues.

    And now, we have rumours of a 5G, TV like device from Honor to test the 5G waters as a central hub to your home needs and which could launch very soon.

    If 5G is going to dominate 2020 in many parts of the world and there are buzz products using it, anyone that doesn't offer a 5G device is at a disadvantage.




    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 73 of 89
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,982member

    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?


    1. I wouldn't consider buying an iMac, I'm a MacBook guy, so I don't have much interest in it.
    2. Even if I did, those ports don't bother me, they're a very small part of the back on the iMac, and their location has a function that would be impeded by centralisation.
    3. Even if I did have interest and they did bother me, I don't see the back of my monitor screen very often, I see the back of my iPhone all the time.
    “or symmetrically balances to either side”

    The ports on the back of the iMac could be placed on either side, symmetrically, but they arent. They’re on one side only. No one complains about this. It’s the same reason why the pearl clutching here is silly nonsense. 
    Nice cherry picking there.  They don't complain about it because the back of an iMac normally faces a wall, and the only time they ever see those ports is when they reach around the back to find them, in which case it is convenient for all the ports to be in the same place in an easily accessible corner.  That's functionally preferable.

    The location of the iPhone camera is not functionally useful, and judging by the negative comments here and elsewhere I've seen is aesthetically disfavoured by a sizeable proportion, in a product where aesthetics matter to a sizeable proportion.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 74 of 89
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,832member
    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?


    1. I wouldn't consider buying an iMac, I'm a MacBook guy, so I don't have much interest in it.
    2. Even if I did, those ports don't bother me, they're a very small part of the back on the iMac, and their location has a function that would be impeded by centralisation.
    3. Even if I did have interest and they did bother me, I don't see the back of my monitor screen very often, I see the back of my iPhone all the time.
    “or symmetrically balances to either side”

    The ports on the back of the iMac could be placed on either side, symmetrically, but they arent. They’re on one side only. No one complains about this. It’s the same reason why the pearl clutching here is silly nonsense. 
    The location of the iPhone camera is not functionally useful, and judging by the negative comments here and elsewhere I've seen is aesthetically disfavoured by a sizeable proportion, in a product where aesthetics matter to a sizeable proportion.
    You're good.

    Your technical review of the iPhone 11 camera array is the best ever, and especialy brilliant, given that it hasn't actually been announced or delivered!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 89
    Does Apple do that? Hand out mock devices to case makers so that it can be leaked to YouTube influencers? Isn’t there a NDA or something?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 89
    Yes I will most definitely be skipping this update due to price and very limited updates to the features of the phone. The camera is not that important to me. 
  • Reply 77 of 89
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,893member
    Does Apple do that? Hand out mock devices to case makers so that it can be leaked to YouTube influencers? Isn’t there a NDA or something?
    I'm sure the intent is not to leak them to the media. 
  • Reply 78 of 89
    I feel like this camera bump is a sign that Jonny hasn't been involved in iPhone design since the iPhone 6's camera bump. All the reports say he was focused more on Apple's campus, and it shows. On the one hand, kudos for them going function over form. At the same time I wish they would have just gone with a glass bar along the top quarter of the phone and had it be just black and uniform raised glass even if it just ended up being empty space under the bump.
  • Reply 79 of 89
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,046member
    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    iOS_Guy80 said:
    crowley said:
    It used to be that Apple made things that looked better from the back than their competitors looked from the front.  I really hope they've got something special in the works for 2020, because that bump is grotesque.
    Really. When you use your phone what side do you look at? What side matters the most? When was the last time you looked at the back of your phone? Does it really matter why it looks like. What matters is that IT JUST WORKS.
    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

    It's ok that aesthetics don't matter to you.  Other people think differently.  I like for things to look nice as well as work, especially when I'm paying as much as an iPhone costs.
    That new bump with the three lenses does look nice and aesthetically pleasing. We agree to disagree.
    Interesting that you make the point since you think it doesn't matter what it looks like, but fair enough.  I think you're in a tiny minority.
    So, do you want the improved imaging and video, not to mention A/R, or not?
    Not sure what relevance that has, but they're not features I'm particularly interested in.  Moreover, those features aren't contingent on a square camera bump in the corner.

    So, where should that camera bump go, and what should it look like?

    Given that Apple has always placed its camera(s) in that corner, I'm not sure why moving it makes any sense. 

    This is your opportunity to demonstrate your design skills; where should it go, and why?
    Tbh, if they made the phone thicker and got rid of the bump, that's 90% of my issue dealt with, the feel of it is more irritating than the look. Though in terms of placement, centralising it would remove the asymmetry to good effect, and a cleaner orientation, in a proper square, a line, or a cross formation rather than the rather chaotic looking offset of the three lenses and flash would probably work.
    Do you likewise complain that the ports on the back of an iMac aren’t centered or symmetrically balances to either side? Why not?


    1. I wouldn't consider buying an iMac, I'm a MacBook guy, so I don't have much interest in it.
    2. Even if I did, those ports don't bother me, they're a very small part of the back on the iMac, and their location has a function that would be impeded by centralisation.
    3. Even if I did have interest and they did bother me, I don't see the back of my monitor screen very often, I see the back of my iPhone all the time.
    “or symmetrically balances to either side”

    The ports on the back of the iMac could be placed on either side, symmetrically, but they arent. They’re on one side only. No one complains about this. It’s the same reason why the pearl clutching here is silly nonsense. 
    Nice cherry picking there.  They don't complain about it because the back of an iMac normally faces a wall, and the only time they ever see those ports is when they reach around the back to find them, in which case it is convenient for all the ports to be in the same place in an easily accessible corner.  That's functionally preferable.

    The location of the iPhone camera is not functionally useful, and judging by the negative comments here and elsewhere I've seen is aesthetically disfavoured by a sizeable proportion, in a product where aesthetics matter to a sizeable proportion.

    The camera sensor is usually the thickest component in the phone. In fact in the latest iterations of the iPhone, it sticks out by 1mm or so. This is because all of the other components are able to get thinner, except this one.

    Now because it is so thick, it cannot be stacked on top of the battery which takes 90% or so of the surface of the phone. This leaves very few options: the top or the bottom. The bottom is out for obvious ergonomic reasons so that leaves the top. Now here is the thing: modern phones are PACKED with components. There is no room anywhere. This means that centering the camera would mean moving another large component and risking to have to grow the phone somewhere else. 

    The next explanation is an aesthetic one. If the designer decides to center the camera, then where is the flash going? To the left? to the right? Either way it will look unbalanced. The default position goes back to the upper left corner, just as in the previous iterations of the phone. 

    Finally, moving the camera, beside detracting from the heritage, improve nothing and make the phone larger than needed would mean alienating millions of user who have been accustomed to this location over the past 10 years.

    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 89
    gordygordy Posts: 972member
    Instead of all these cameras, why not innovate by offering high quality optical zoom?  Would probably be the same space, with one lens.

    If true, we're definitely in a new era of Apple Design.


    squircle :D
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