Apple iPhone chip maker TSMC predicting strong demand for rest of 2019

Posted:
in AAPL Investors edited July 18
Apple A-series chip partner TSMC anticipates a strong second half of 2019 for its finances based on strong demand for its chips, even after the manufacturer beat both its own revenue forecasts and those of analysts for the most recent quarter.




The marketing of 5G by carriers around the world will help TSMC generate more orders for its chips for the remainder of 2019, caused through the launches of new smartphones using the technology as well as demand for 5G telecommunications equipment. It is further suggested demand for TSMC's wares will increase further in the fourth quarter.

For the quarter, revenue rose 3.3% to T$241 billion ($7.76 billion), but on a U.S. Dollar basis it actually fell 1.4%, Reuters reports. Even so, this is a better performance than TSMC's own forecast for the period, as well as an average from Wall Street analysts. It did however meet analyst estimates for net profit at T$66.77 billion ($2.15 billion), though this is a 7.6-percent decline year-on-year.

As with other suppliers, TSMC is having to navigate a slowing economy and reduced demand for smartphone sales, as well as the effects of the U.S.-China trade war and the US's ban on Huawei technology.

"Although our business continues to be impacted by a glowing slowing economy, we have also passed the bottom of the cycle of our business and again began to see demand increasing," CEO and vice chairman C.C. Wei advised analysts during an earnings call.

TSMC's performance is generally seen as an indicator for the wider tech industry's overall health. While Apple is a major headline client for the company, it also produces chips for many other device vendors at the same time, allowing it to operate as a proxy of sorts for Apple.

TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16
    ksecksec Posts: 1,566member
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    chemengin1
  • Reply 2 of 16
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 788member
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    AppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 16
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?
  • Reply 5 of 16
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    edited July 18 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    The first customer for the new processors will be Huawei's fully owned HiSilicon who will be using it for Huawei's next-gen Kirin 985 series chips that is likely to debut on Huawei's Mate 30 flagship series of smartphones. Kirin is a Neural Processing Unit used for A.I. and more.


    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    edited July 18
  • Reply 7 of 16
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    edited July 18 AppleExposedStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    edited July 18
  • Reply 9 of 16
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "Yet despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    edited July 18 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.
  • Reply 11 of 16
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.
    But they were all fairly reasonable assumptions, not something out of the world. I think, sometimes the nature of your job gets you to get carried away a bit (instead of preparing others for arguing, you end up preparing yourself for arguing endlessly). 
    AppleExposedStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.
    But they were all fairly reasonable assumptions, not something out of the world. I think, sometimes the nature of your job gets you to get carried away a bit (instead of preparing others for arguing, you end up preparing yourself for arguing endlessly). 
    We can all speculate and make assumptions. That's fine.We do it all the time and it's fun but we walk into a mine field when we take our assumptions and speculation and strip them of all references to that point and instead present them as fact.

    In this case the problem was precisely that and in only two lines:

    "Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13"

    There is no assuming or speculation visible in that and the 'supporting' link fails to even mention Apple. It is an outright presentation of fact but lacking any supporting documentation.

    As for being 'fairly reasonable' that is pretty subjective so each to their own on that although I posted a link from an Apple 'friendly' site (Patently Apple) that pointed out that production would begin on the Kirin chip and followed by the A13, further denting the original claim and putting to bed the totally unnecessary "are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?" (As if I cared about that anyway).

    The reality is that we just don't know the facts either way so presenting claims as if they were facts leads us nowhere at best and is distortion at worst. Especially when the claim is so simple and direct. There was plenty of room to make the assumption clear.


  • Reply 13 of 16
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,381unconfirmed, member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.

    True but they were based on history and facts(Apple being everyones biggest customer).

    You've made worse assumptions before.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.

    True but they were based on history and facts(Apple being everyones biggest customer).

    You've made worse assumptions before.
    Isn't that the point? If we are making assumptions or speculating they can be way off base but we label them as such, we don't paint them as reality.

    It's fun to throw things into the ring and see if it turns out to be true. Bounce off other people's ideas (even some of the wacky ones). Like brainstorming.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 15 of 16
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,274member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.
    But they were all fairly reasonable assumptions, not something out of the world. I think, sometimes the nature of your job gets you to get carried away a bit (instead of preparing others for arguing, you end up preparing yourself for arguing endlessly). 
    Do you think he gets paid by the word, the post, or by the number of feet he moves the goalposts!?
    AppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 16
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,061member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    jcs2305 said:
    ksec said:
    And it has very little to do with Apple.

    5G Modem and SoC as well as AMD's GPU and CPU. 
    TSMC is believed to have already commenced mass production for the Apple-designed "A13" chip, which will be at the heart of the 2019 iPhone refresh due this September.

    I think this ^ is a bit more than a little impact.  Yes they have other customers, but they aren't making a couple of hundred A13 chips either.

    Apple has the bulk of the early production 7nm+ /  euv process for the A13.

    https://www.techspot.com/news/80237-tsmc-7nm-production-improves-performance-10.html


    The linked article doesn't seem to even mention Apple. Or is my eyesight failing?

     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-apple-a13-2019-iphone-processor,39315.html

    This is from the article on May 10th.

    "According to Bloomberg sources, TSMC began test production of the A13 in April, and volume production is expected to begin early this month. The EUV lithography is the successor to the company’s deep ultraviolet (DUV) process. It looks like TSMC is quite confident in its new process, since it’s willing to test the production of chips for a month before jumping into volume production. Furthermore, TSMC was not expected to begin mass production of 7nm EUV chips until next month."

    Are you afraid that Huawei won't be first?

    Hence why I stated "the bulk of the early production"

    Considering that Huawei isn't expected to deliver the Kirin 985 in a product until the end of the year, it looks like Apple will have the bulk of early production, so that it can meet its September deliveries for the new iPhone.

    Also, considering the number of A13's that Apple will need this production year, something on the order of 120 to 130 million A13's will be produced.
    Did you make up the 'bulk of early production' then? Nothing you have linked to says that.

    Just like last year, TSMC is producing SoCs for both companies in parallel.

    Delivery of a product is irrelevant here. Production capacity was contracted last year and will be met unless Huawei says otherwise at a later date. Something which has never been claimed as yet.

    At present I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't have 120 million A13s in storage.

    https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2019/04/tsmc-on-schedule-to-kick-start-production-of-apples-new-a13-7nm-euv-processor-dubbed-the-n7-pro-in-q2.html
    The production year is for the 2019 iPhone models, hence the 120 million units that Apple will have produced through the next year. This isn't that hard to figure out, and certainly more 7nm+ processors produced for Apple than what Huawei will use for its various product lines for the next year.
    No. It's really easy to figure out.

    You made a claim and tried to support it with link that didn't even mention Apple. When that was pointed out you scurried off at a tangent, posted another link (which also failed to back up your claim) and promptly scurried off to a completely different point!

    Now you have completely abandoned 'the bulk of early production' and are talking about shipments for next year!

    What I'm having trouble figuring out is why you still haven't provided any real support for your original claim.
    Uhm, you need to make some basic assumptions about Apple that are easy

    I assumed that Apple will sell 180 million iPhones for the next year. I also assumed 2/3 of sales will be of the three new models, so that 120 million units that require the A13. 

    Now, those numbers could certainly vary a bit, but the point is that Huawei won't be building anywhere close to 120 million smartphones in the next year that use the Kirin 785.

    But of course, you can show me your numbers to prove me wrong. 

    Here's a link that states that Apple is TMSC largest customer

    http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201906100012.aspx

    "et despite the gains, the May figure was still down 0.7 percent from a year earlier, as sales have been hurt by weakness at TSMC's biggest client, Apple, and on ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China."
    You may assume all you want but not pass it off as fact.
    But they were all fairly reasonable assumptions, not something out of the world. I think, sometimes the nature of your job gets you to get carried away a bit (instead of preparing others for arguing, you end up preparing yourself for arguing endlessly). 
    Do you think he gets paid by the word, the post, or by the number of feet he moves the goalposts!?
    One of the key rules of debate is if you are 'chancing it' and digging a hole for yourself, make sure you have a ladder with you.

    Wherever possible don't even chance it. There is simply too much to lose. Don't put yourself on thin ice to start with. 

    If you challenge a point, make sure your counterpoint is robust. Anticipate defences/attacks and, if they are weak, let the other person dig their own hole. If they are strong, re-inforce your own stance with supporting documentation. Keep something in reserve if possible and let the other person think it could be worse to provoke you into putting that (possibly non-existent) point into the debate. Understand timing.

    Never be rude. Always be respectful. Never ridicule and if possible don't swear. Do not paint yourself as knowing more than you really do and never lie. If you truly put your foot in it, admit it. If possible, know your 'opponent' and how they think and react to certain styles of discourse. Be fair and play fair even while accepting that there is necessarily a 'dark' side to discussion tactics that play on other people's fears and insecurities. Don't hold grudges and don't fall for provocation. If someone is paying you to help them achieve their goals they need to understand how those fears and insecurities can be triggered but if not, they have no place in your 'tactics'. Never forget that there is always someone better than you and you can't win them all.

    Pretty much common sense.

    There is no need to 'move the goalposts' if your point is robust and no, no one is paying me and of course not by the word. I am the same as you. A guy with an opinion on a forum. Some of the above could be applicable here in a discussion forum but the execution is completely different (writing between jobs, while traveling and on a phone with the AI post editor and all its quirks). No time to polish anything etc.

    If you truly think I have moved any goalposts you are going to have to provide the information but I fear your post was one of those 'drive by' pokes that really serve no purpose.
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
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