Review: Apple's 2019 13-inch MacBook Pro is an excellent, inexpensive workhorse

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 76
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    ...non-upgradable = unappealing from this camp...
    I suspect (and have read educated guesses from writers here) that the vast majority of Apple laptop customers didn’t perform DIY upgrades. You’re confusing yourself as a DIY tinkerer with the mass market. 
    Quite the contrary.   These AI pages have been filled over recent years with reports of Mac users upgrading both memory and storage.   And, it certainly doesn't have to be done by a "tinkerer" -- I can pop a drive out of my Lenovo in literally seconds (remove ONE screw and pull out the tray) and upgrading memory isn't much harder.   But, if Apple or the user chooses, it could be like changing an iPhone battery -- not a user replaceable part, just take it to the Apple Store.

    I'm not buying the "nobody does it" argument.
     


    MplsPdysamoria
  • Reply 22 of 76
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    This little thread has been interesting but I really can’t understand people that defend Apple here.   128GB is a joke in 2019 or really most of 2030!   The fact that the article suggested alternatives just highlights a complete ignorance with respect to how users leverage so called pro machines.  The problem is further compounded by the laptops not even being suitable for modest users of Apples machines.  At 128gB a user that installs Garage Band, a audio collection (iTunes) and a movie or two will run into space problems.  Effectively the machines are a joke even for the casual user.  

    There are many other issues  with the machines that many don’t seem to be concerned with.   The craptactular keyboard is one problem.   Serviceability is another.  I can understand soldering in components as it does increase reliability but that doesn’t work to ones advantage with high failure rate parts like SSD’s.  

    Finally there seems to be an assumption on the part of many that 100% connectivity to the internet is common these days.  That just isn’t the case for many of use.  It is real easy to end up out of range of both WiFi and cellular connections these days.  This is why I find cloud storage to be a joke.  Cloud storage is great for backing up important stuff but you can not rely upon it as the only storage place for that important file that gets a job done.  
    ElCapitanmike54kestraldysamoria
  • Reply 23 of 76
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Clarus said:
    ...
    But there is another frustrating side to the Touch Bar.

    With function keys, if I press a key without looking thanks to muscle memory, it does what it is supposed to do. But since the Touch Bar constantly changes depending on the context, you cannot rely on muscle memory. You have to look at the Touch Bar to make sure that what you are about to hit is what you thought was going to be there, because it might be something else. Plus, you have to look carefully to hit the right button, because you can no longer orient by touch for the four-key groups of tactile function keys.

    .....

    I use a MacBook Pro but my favorite Mac keyboard right now is the one on the MacBook Air, which no other Mac has: You get a real tactile function key row plus Touch ID, which I find really useful.
    All good points that you made.   But this is the first time I have heard anybody mention that: (in my words), the Touch Bar requires too much looking and thinking.   A keyboard or any other input device should just get out of the user's way.   Or maybe it would be better to say "become an extension of the user's body" such as you don't have to think about moving your finger -- it's just there and does what its supposed to do without looking at it or thinking about it.   The analogy might be a baseball mitt or bat -- they become extensions of the ball player rather than separate parts to be manipulated.

    In the early days of typewriters that was an important concept:   making the keyboard intuitive where the typist didn't have to spend even a quarter of a second thinking about where the key was and they conducted studies to streamline the whole thing and eliminate that 1/4 second --- because it turned out that it made a difference.

    And, yes,  I agree with you that the old MacBook Air keyboard is superior to the new MacBook Pro keyboard.  (But not so much the touch-id --- I like how my Apple Watch unlocks the machine)
    dysamoriamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 76
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,096member
    ireland said:
    I’m sorry, but 128 GB hard drive in 2019 is not inexpensive. Reviewer is leaving Apple away too lightly here. Apple should be hammered and embarrassed in the press, until they go 256 GB base on their “pro” Mac portable. Your advice to users is to get an external hard drive or NAS, really? And higher cloud storage requires a permanent recurring fee, so it adds up over time. Add built in store is handier, faster and trumps any external or networked solution. IMO the keyboard is lousy and the storage is greedy and stingy. This is Pro-naemic machine. They gave the processor quad core, but they took away features/size/speeds/ports to do so. We keep getting less computer for our money, IMO.

    Also notice, you call this computer inexpensive, but it’s not the model you personally bought, is it? How would you feel about owning this model as your Mac yourself? I wonder how long it was take for descriptors like “inexpensive” to drop from your awareness.
    You get a DUAL CPU laptop for $1300 and you still complain? Find another brand like that and come back again..
  • Reply 25 of 76
    wizard69 said:
    lkrupp said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is still expensive for what you get. This especiallyl after upgrading to a reasonably sized SSD.  
    ...non-upgradable = unappealing from this camp...
    Is the ANY Apple product either of you would buy now?
    I still buy Apples cell phones but this is due more to a lack of choice than anything else.  I have no desire to run Android and it’s spyware.  So far there is no real alternative so I put up with the high prices.  
    Well, then I'm so glad you spend so much time in an Apple fan site hating on their products so much and choosing them because there is nothing better. Perfect kind of person I want to hear from on this site, right?!

    Fucking negative nellies, trolls and their sycophantic followers are taking over this site, just like MacRumors, has been transitioning for awhile now, evil repugnant twats all of them.
    pscooter63fastasleep
  • Reply 26 of 76
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,096member
    128 GB may be small for personal use but is quite adequate for corporate use, no corporation would distribute to its employees laptops with hundreds of GBs of corporate data.

    Apple sells to individuals by one, to corporations by ten thousands. Take it or leave it, whining is futile.

    edited July 2019 macxpresspscooter63
  • Reply 27 of 76
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,646member
    I just bought one for my daughter for college. The 13” MBP is a good machine, and it’s 1.4GHz rated clock speed belies its true performance. I totally agree with the above posters about the SSD, though. For a “pro” machine, 256GB is unacceptable, especially given that you can’t replace it or upgrade it in the future. Apple has always been expensive as far as hard drive and memory upgrades go, but the prices they are charging now are bordering on highway robbery.

    When you compare it to other similarly performing machines, the 13” MBP is a bit more expensive, but not horribly so; pretty consistent with the relative Apple laptop prices in the past. The difference is there are a lot of lower-spec’d machines that tend to skew your perspective. 

    What I really wish is that Apple would make the equivalent of a 15” MacBook Air. there are a lot of people who want/need a 15” screen but don’t need the power of the 15” MBP, or can’t afford the $2400 starting price tag. Pretty much every other laptop maker on the market has a reasonably prices 15” laptop, except Apple.

    As far as function keys go, I may be in the minority, but I have software I use for work that uses the function keys. I can make do with the soft keys, but physical keys are nicer. I totally agree that they should have kept a physical escape key, though. The bigger issue I have is I will often overshoot the number keys when typing and brush the touchbar. True to its name, even a light touch will ‘press’ the key on the Touch Bar resulting in a lot of inadvertent Siri activations, etc. The big thing is I never really use the Touch Bar for anything else, so while I miss the function keys somewhat, I don’t fee like I actually got much in return for losing them, either.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 28 of 76
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,461administrator
    wizard69 said:
    This little thread has been interesting but I really can’t understand people that defend Apple here.   128GB is a joke in 2019 or really most of 2030!   The fact that the article suggested alternatives just highlights a complete ignorance with respect to how users leverage so called pro machines.  The problem is further compounded by the laptops not even being suitable for modest users of Apples machines.  At 128gB a user that installs Garage Band, a audio collection (iTunes) and a movie or two will run into space problems.  Effectively the machines are a joke even for the casual user.  

    There are many other issues  with the machines that many don’t seem to be concerned with.   The craptactular keyboard is one problem.   Serviceability is another.  I can understand soldering in components as it does increase reliability but that doesn’t work to ones advantage with high failure rate parts like SSD’s.  

    Finally there seems to be an assumption on the part of many that 100% connectivity to the internet is common these days.  That just isn’t the case for many of use.  It is real easy to end up out of range of both WiFi and cellular connections these days.  This is why I find cloud storage to be a joke.  Cloud storage is great for backing up important stuff but you can not rely upon it as the only storage place for that important file that gets a job done.  
    SSDs don't have high failure rates. Failure rates are much lower than the hard drives that they replaced.
    edited July 2019 chiamacxpresspscooter63ElCapitanClarusfastasleep
  • Reply 29 of 76
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,461administrator

    ...non-upgradable = unappealing from this camp...
    I suspect (and have read educated guesses from writers here) that the vast majority of Apple laptop customers didn’t perform DIY upgrades. You’re confusing yourself as a DIY tinkerer with the mass market. 
    Quite the contrary.   These AI pages have been filled over recent years with reports of Mac users upgrading both memory and storage.   And, it certainly doesn't have to be done by a "tinkerer" -- I can pop a drive out of my Lenovo in literally seconds (remove ONE screw and pull out the tray) and upgrading memory isn't much harder.   But, if Apple or the user chooses, it could be like changing an iPhone battery -- not a user replaceable part, just take it to the Apple Store.

    I'm not buying the "nobody does it" argument.
     


    AI forum-goers are not representative of the much larger user base. You all are more tech savvy, and heavier users of gear than the vast majority of the market.

    It isn't nobody. But, for the last 15 years, it far and away hasn't been the majority.
    edited July 2019 chiamacxpresspscooter63fastasleep
  • Reply 30 of 76
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,646member
    ...non-upgradable = unappealing from this camp...
    I suspect (and have read educated guesses from writers here) that the vast majority of Apple laptop customers didn’t perform DIY upgrades. You’re confusing yourself as a DIY tinkerer with the mass market. 
    So I can take it in to an authorized Apple repair center to get the SSD upgraded? Nope. You miss the point. *Nobody* can upgrade the SSD. Trying to justify the design by saying ‘well nobody does it anyway’ is just another one of your apologist excuses. 
    GeorgeBMacpscooter63ITGUYINSDkestral
  • Reply 31 of 76
    red oakred oak Posts: 934member
    dysamoria said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is still expensive for what you get. This especiallyl after upgrading to a reasonably sized SSD.  
    Agreed. I find myself comparing it to the $1500 13” MacBook Pro 5,5 I bought in 2009 and I feel like the storage and base CPU are kind of lame on this new model. Yeah, the 2009 model was a dual core only, and came with only 4GB RAM (which I expanded for less than $100), but it had real function keys, a reliable keyboard with decent travel, far more than just two I/O ports, an analog AND digital audio output, a 2.5GHz base clock, and 250GB storage.

    Ten years later, while the type of storage and CPU are technically superior, I suspect that it looks, to casual buyers, like the new model is missing things. This isn’t quite the “technology gets better and cheaper over time” comparison I would’ve hoped for.

    A friend of mine has been feeling very negative about what she sees she can get for her money in a new MacBook Pro, compared to her own 2010 model. I’m not the one giving her these negative impressions; she did the reading all herself. If anything, I’ve been still behaving like an Apple advocate when talking to her about what she might want to consider (she’s a Logic user and therefore needs a Mac to keep using Logic).

    Apple is not looking good, from the perspective of average buyers. Between these skimpy MacBooks and the “Mac Pixar”...
    For God’s sake, your laptops are 10 years old.  Stop trying to justify that your’s compares well or better than these new MBPs   

    Your’s is outdated in every single way measurable 
    macpluspluschiaSolipscooter63williamlondonfastasleep
  • Reply 32 of 76
    Seemed to have waited forever for them to go quad-core on the 13" MBP.  I'm one of those who just prefer that size and would get that size over the 15" regardless of price if they had the similar specs.  It still of course lags behind the 15" since now they have went 6C!  But since they took so long I've now outgrown the 16gb memory limit.  Even with my 2010 13" MBP I was able to upgrade to 16gb (and of course my 2012 and 2015).  So because of that (and a couple of other reasons) I think I'll continue to wait.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 33 of 76
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    red oak said:
    dysamoria said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is still expensive for what you get. This especiallyl after upgrading to a reasonably sized SSD.  
    Agreed. I find myself comparing it to the $1500 13” MacBook Pro 5,5 I bought in 2009 and I feel like the storage and base CPU are kind of lame on this new model. Yeah, the 2009 model was a dual core only, and came with only 4GB RAM (which I expanded for less than $100), but it had real function keys, a reliable keyboard with decent travel, far more than just two I/O ports, an analog AND digital audio output, a 2.5GHz base clock, and 250GB storage.

    Ten years later, while the type of storage and CPU are technically superior, I suspect that it looks, to casual buyers, like the new model is missing things. This isn’t quite the “technology gets better and cheaper over time” comparison I would’ve hoped for.

    A friend of mine has been feeling very negative about what she sees she can get for her money in a new MacBook Pro, compared to her own 2010 model. I’m not the one giving her these negative impressions; she did the reading all herself. If anything, I’ve been still behaving like an Apple advocate when talking to her about what she might want to consider (she’s a Logic user and therefore needs a Mac to keep using Logic).

    Apple is not looking good, from the perspective of average buyers. Between these skimpy MacBooks and the “Mac Pixar”...
    For God’s sake, your laptops are 10 years old.  Stop trying to justify that your’s compares well or better than these new MBPs   

    Your’s is outdated in every single way measurable 
    How is it obsolete if it meets his needs?  Particularly if the two most critical components (Memory and storage) have been upgraded to modern specs.   At this point, its biggest limitation might be that its likely just a 32bit bus.
    ElCapitankestralmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 34 of 76
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,096member
    MplsP said:
    ...non-upgradable = unappealing from this camp...
    I suspect (and have read educated guesses from writers here) that the vast majority of Apple laptop customers didn’t perform DIY upgrades. You’re confusing yourself as a DIY tinkerer with the mass market. 
    So I can take it in to an authorized Apple repair center to get the SSD upgraded? Nope. You miss the point. *Nobody* can upgrade the SSD. Trying to justify the design by saying ‘well nobody does it anyway’ is just another one of your apologist excuses. 
    Nobody can upgrade the SSD because there is no SSD with T2 chip on the market !  If you say “screw the T2” then you’re in the wrong thread, this thread is related to an Apple laptop and ALL Apple laptops have the T2 chip. Build a blog or start your own thread in AI forums if you have such unique and important opinions.
    pscooter63kestral
  • Reply 35 of 76
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,461administrator
    red oak said:
    dysamoria said:
    wizard69 said:
    It is still expensive for what you get. This especiallyl after upgrading to a reasonably sized SSD.  
    Agreed. I find myself comparing it to the $1500 13” MacBook Pro 5,5 I bought in 2009 and I feel like the storage and base CPU are kind of lame on this new model. Yeah, the 2009 model was a dual core only, and came with only 4GB RAM (which I expanded for less than $100), but it had real function keys, a reliable keyboard with decent travel, far more than just two I/O ports, an analog AND digital audio output, a 2.5GHz base clock, and 250GB storage.

    Ten years later, while the type of storage and CPU are technically superior, I suspect that it looks, to casual buyers, like the new model is missing things. This isn’t quite the “technology gets better and cheaper over time” comparison I would’ve hoped for.

    A friend of mine has been feeling very negative about what she sees she can get for her money in a new MacBook Pro, compared to her own 2010 model. I’m not the one giving her these negative impressions; she did the reading all herself. If anything, I’ve been still behaving like an Apple advocate when talking to her about what she might want to consider (she’s a Logic user and therefore needs a Mac to keep using Logic).

    Apple is not looking good, from the perspective of average buyers. Between these skimpy MacBooks and the “Mac Pixar”...
    For God’s sake, your laptops are 10 years old.  Stop trying to justify that your’s compares well or better than these new MBPs   

    Your’s is outdated in every single way measurable 
    How is it obsolete if it meets his needs?  Particularly if the two most critical components (Memory and storage) have been upgraded to modern specs.   At this point, its biggest limitation might be that its likely just a 32bit bus.
    Usable for the owner and obsolete are two different matters. The 32 bit bus may be a problem, and it certainly won't run Mojave. Additionally, the 13-inch reviewed here is more than twice as fast single-core and more than four times faster in multiple because of architectural changes and advancements, despite the base clock similarity.

    The RAM on that 2009 is one third of the speed of the new RAM. The SSD is on a SATA-2 bus, and is less than one-fifth the read speed, and less than one-half the write.

    It's great that the 2009 does well for the owner. I still have a 5,1 Mac Pro in the house because it still does what it needs to do, despite being outclassed by the i7 Mac Mini. That 2009 MBP, however, is in no way comparable to the new gear in any real measurable way from a performance standpoint.
    edited July 2019 chiafastasleep
  • Reply 37 of 76
    irelandireland Posts: 17,783member
    ireland said:
    I’m sorry, but 128 GB hard drive in 2019 is not inexpensive. Reviewer is leaving Apple away too lightly here. Apple should be hammered and embarrassed in the press, until they go 256 GB base on their “pro” Mac portable. Your advice to users is to get an external hard drive or NAS, really? And higher cloud storage requires a permanent recurring fee, so it adds up over time. Add built in store is handier, faster and trumps any external or networked solution. IMO the keyboard is lousy and the storage is greedy and stingy. This is Pro-naemic machine. They gave the processor quad core, but they took away features/size/speeds/ports to do so. We keep getting less computer for our money, IMO.

    Also notice, you call this computer inexpensive, but it’s not the model you personally bought, is it? How would you feel about owning this model as your Mac yourself? I wonder how long it was take for descriptors like “inexpensive” to drop from your awareness.
    You get a DUAL CPU laptop for $1300 and you still complain? Find another brand like that and come back again..
    Quad core.

    And no one is complaining about the CPU.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 76
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,096member
    ireland said:
    SSD speed comparison:

    Irrelevant. This is the read speed that matters the most and those are almost identical. Write is always optimized and may vary by media, especially fragmentation. Applications are not affected by write speed because they write to the disk cache not directly to the disk. This is the operating system that writes directly to the disk asynchronously. Also it is not clear whether the two models compared have the same file system, APFS or HFS+. RAM size too must be identical because of the disk cache. Grab one test from a site grab another test from another site is not benchmarking.
    edited July 2019 pscooter63Soli
  • Reply 39 of 76
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,096member
    ireland said:
    ireland said:
    I’m sorry, but 128 GB hard drive in 2019 is not inexpensive. Reviewer is leaving Apple away too lightly here. Apple should be hammered and embarrassed in the press, until they go 256 GB base on their “pro” Mac portable. Your advice to users is to get an external hard drive or NAS, really? And higher cloud storage requires a permanent recurring fee, so it adds up over time. Add built in store is handier, faster and trumps any external or networked solution. IMO the keyboard is lousy and the storage is greedy and stingy. This is Pro-naemic machine. They gave the processor quad core, but they took away features/size/speeds/ports to do so. We keep getting less computer for our money, IMO.

    Also notice, you call this computer inexpensive, but it’s not the model you personally bought, is it? How would you feel about owning this model as your Mac yourself? I wonder how long it was take for descriptors like “inexpensive” to drop from your awareness.
    You get a DUAL CPU laptop for $1300 and you still complain? Find another brand like that and come back again..
    Quad core.

    And no one is complaining about the CPU.
    Quad core is the single CPU, the Intel one. The second CPU is Apple’s A10, implemented into the Mac as the T2 chip.
  • Reply 40 of 76
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,067member
    ireland said:
    I’m sorry, but 128 GB hard drive in 2019 is not inexpensive. Reviewer is leaving Apple away too lightly here. Apple should be hammered and embarrassed in the press, until they go 256 GB base on their “pro” Mac portable. Your advice to users is to get an external hard drive or NAS, really? And higher cloud storage requires a permanent recurring fee, so it adds up over time. Add built in store is handier, faster and trumps any external or networked solution. IMO the keyboard is lousy and the storage is greedy and stingy. This is Pro-naemic machine. They gave the processor quad core, but they took away features/size/speeds/ports to do so. We keep getting less computer for our money, IMO.

    Also notice, you call this computer inexpensive, but it’s not the model you personally bought, is it? How would you feel about owning this model as your Mac yourself? I wonder how long it was take for descriptors like “inexpensive” to drop from your awareness.
    This is certainly an inexpensive MBP at $1300. Entry-level configuration is fine for entry-level needs. You can double the storage for $200 if you are not an entry-level person.

    Less computer for our money? That’s crazytalk. Simply look at the computers and Macs of yesteryear and compare their specs, capabilities, and prices adjusted for inflation and your hand-wringing fantasy comes crashing down. Oops.

    Any techie writing on this site is likely not going to be using the entry-level model, which doesn’t make them unable to review it for those that will. Dur. 
    edited July 2019 williamlondonchiamacxpressfastasleep
Sign In or Register to comment.