The reality of war is setting in
With the growing number of American casualties and hostages, I think the reality of war is finally settling in.
As I mentioned before, the U.S. was getting a bit too cocky. But that was before meeting any serious resistance from the Republican Army which is much better trained and equipped.
It kills me how cavalier and insincere President Bush is when he speaks of how he mourns for the victims. It's easy for him to call the war is a success, but just tell the parents the dead soldiers that.
As I mentioned before, the U.S. was getting a bit too cocky. But that was before meeting any serious resistance from the Republican Army which is much better trained and equipped.
It kills me how cavalier and insincere President Bush is when he speaks of how he mourns for the victims. It's easy for him to call the war is a success, but just tell the parents the dead soldiers that.
Comments
As far as the "realities of war", we're not even CLOSE yet [I'm afraid]. Right now CNN and others are talking about ~ 10 US combatants being held hostage against the Geneva Convention, perhaps an equal number that died overnight near Nasiriya in a fire fight. Yet other than one single still image with faceless bodies that *might* be American, we've seen nothing. Same ole shit, different year. Bombs hitting buildings, columns of tanks, a few explosions -- we never see the blood or suffering from either side.
Until we (the civilian population) starts seeing some of that and maybe some footage from the front a few minutes delayed (for security reasons), there will be no "reality set in". The average Joe and Jane American will not be affected by what they see until they see blood and bodies. What else would you expect given the kinds of movies and television shows we take in on a weekly basis? Nothing shocks us anymore, least of all some solemn-voiced reporter with a still image of smoke plumes rising off a birm.
I think what happens with these Republican Guard units in and near Bahgdad may start to tell the real tail. There have been intense pockets of fighting as we get closer, but once we roll on Bahgdad they may start talking about body counts by the dozen. If they have the balls to show some of that, THEN reality will start to hit home IMO. Not before then.
The protestors will probably get worse at that point, too. Most of those people are such sheep it's unbelievable. Everyone thinks protestors can't be sheep (by definition) but that is so wrong it's not even funny. In Chicago last Friday the radio media was poking fun at how tame our protestors here were, then next thing you know Saturday shows footage of all these now-hornery anti-war demonstrators, standing there screaming back and forth with flag-waivers chanting "USA! USA!" I couldn't figure out which group was more moronic or puppet-like.
Take the television cameras and photographers away and I bet 50% of the protestors (from either side) go home immediately. The remaining 50% are just standing there screaming "Baby Killer" or "You Coward!" at each other. It's like they protest out of anger from other frustrations in their life; nothing substantive is said or seen on the signs being carried. The anti-war people say it's about oil, the flag-waivers say it's about "our freedom", and that's the sad part. Neither has a clue how wrong they are.
Originally posted by satchmo
It kills me how cavalier and insincere President Bush is when he speaks of how he mourns for the victims. It's easy for him to call the war is a success, but just tell the parents [of] the dead soldiers that.
When did that happen? Geez, I've been watching the wrong channels I guess. I think you're letting your politics color your perceptions. This war isn't about politics.
when 10,000+ are dead, then the reality of war will have set in.
To take the fight to them as hard as they can to end it as quickly as they can, and once that's done, to really do some work on behalf of the average Iraqi citizen. If they can leave the infastructure relatively unharmed, good things can happen as a result of this. I know it's sort of naive to hope that the scenario will unfold this way, but it's the only way we will be reminded what a real war is, and [at the same time, the good that can ultimately result from such an ugly thing]...
When did that happen? Geez, I've been watching the wrong channels I guess. I think you're letting your politics color your perceptions. This war isn't about politics.
It happens everytime he speaks on this matter. As Moogs pointed out, it may just have to do with his delivery. No, it has nothing to do with my political bent.
I think what happens with these Republican Guard units in and near Bahgdad may start to tell the real tail. There have been intense pockets of fighting as we get closer, but once we roll on Bahgdad they may start talking about body counts by the dozen. If they have the balls to show some of that, THEN reality will start to hit home IMO. Not before then[/B]
Iraqi videotape was released zooming in on a dead American soldier's face, apparently shot in the forehead. Pretty real I'd say.
See my point?
They would of course require some military training and probably carry a sidearm too but that's really the only way to get the real story. They can't be military journalists or civilian journalists. Tthey have to be somewhere in the middle to gain the trust of the soldiers and be there when the shit hits the fan, but also gain our trust by not taking all their editorial cues from the Joint Chiefs....
Really the whole news media could be reworked in various ways, if only that little thing called "ratings" didn't exist. TV Ratings is one of the root causes what's wrong with America, quite literally. It affects everything we see and hear, but people don't generally realize it....
Originally posted by iBrowse
Of course they're not going to show a full battle on the nightly news, they're going to show reporters riding in a jeep or tank.
They came close last night. The engagement at Umm Qasr was broadcast live on SkyTV and simulcast by NBC/MSNBC. I think they cut in too late to see the heaviest fighting live, but even that they showed on tape. I wonder if we'll see more of that as things move on.
Originally posted by Moogs
Yes, definitely real by any measure, but the scope is not large enough for what I was saying earlier. For the American population as a whole to really be jolted by this and really start considering "what can be gained and at what cost", they need to see cargo planes full of flag-draped coffins. Very sad (pathetic almost), but true. See a few bodies here or there won't do it. A replay of "Blackhawk down" won't do it....
See my point?
Uhh...kind of. Perhaps Americans are more de-sensitized when seeing just one dead soldier than us Canadians.
Sure, hundreds of caskets would be devestaing. But, I just think how a mother is affected by the visual of her dead son on TV. That's what I mean by it really hitting home.
Originally posted by finboy
When did that happen? Geez, I've been watching the wrong channels I guess. I think you're letting your politics color your perceptions. This war isn't about politics.
thats the funniest Ive heard since the international media laughed ari fleisher out of the breifing room for saying he didn't believe support for the war could be bought by the US (while they were dangling $20Billion in guarranteed loans in front of turkeys face for use of airbases)
if you think its not political then your head is in the sand. Remember it only became 'Iraqi Freedom' when it became convenient for it to be that. before that it was all the u.s. could do to make people think Saddam was the twin brother and co-conspirator of 9/11 with Usama bin laden.
Originally posted by satchmo
It kills me how cavalier and insincere President Bush is when he speaks of how he mourns for the victims. It's easy for him to call the war is a success, but just tell the parents the dead soldiers that.
YOU, are full of shit!
We're on the same page, just talking about a different scale of awareness. I guess my point is that it will be a while before the average American citizen will really be jarred by what's going on. Obviously any relative of any deceased combatant will be immediately and forever changed; that goes without saying. Still, everything we've seen to this point (save one photo and some unconfirmed reports) fails to drive home the real point: that war is hell.
Sadly, there is only one thing these days that will do that [for the population at large]....
I don't really know how much less desensitized you guys are; if the television ads and news breaks I see during Canadian hockey broadcasts are any indication, maybe a bit less. [Based on the people I've met and the TV I've seen (not a scientific assesment obviously)], Canada seems to be a friendlier place than the US overall, more easy-going maybe. Though I'm sure [the people in Toronto are pretty much like [those from large American cities like Chicago or New York].
Originally posted by m1911a1
YOU, are full of shit!
Amd that is a wonderful way to make a point.
I'm not really sure Bush should be too upset or morbid in front of people...I guess he would need to be positive and keep a sense of purpose and anti-evil or whatever he's doing, to keep morale up everywhere